HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[BornWithTeeth]

Hmmm.

 

@IceColdHawk PM your crit Hema build?

 

Also, thank you. 'Supra heroes.' God yes. Top.

[Voltage]

The Hema has issues sure, but I feel this late after this sadly nothing will get done. I mean look at sortie token system threads that have been not even looked at for months. 

Edited May 15, 2017 by --Q--Voltage

[Arniox]

17 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Woah, hold on there cowboy!

Wow. Now you've just gone too far. Very sadistic. How co.....oh wait

Oh...it was just a

Keep up the backpedaling. I'm sure people will take you seriously after that. A typical "It was just a prank, bro." situation. (Why not simply admit your mistake?)

OK, firstly, I would rather keep the costs as they are. However, I would not mind if the did reduce them. If they did, I would rather have something to show that we did it. But I do not mind if we didn't get something.

Secondly, I do not actually take pleasure in others suffering. It really was a joke. Sorry if it came out as sadistic or not very 'joky'. 

Thirdly, what mistake? I admit that I can't be stubborn and focus one thing. It's better to take others opinions into consideration when saying things. That's why I'm saying I would not totally mind them changing the costs. But what do you mean mistakes? 

[Almagnus1]

2 hours ago, AlphaTheFinalBalance said:

pay to win DE is a game company either make time or buy plat when you get 50% off plat and save up for a while. Suck it up and be mature please the excuse you use is beyond overused and its getting irritating seeing people play the victim, this is a game mate there will be things locked in time constraints, its just how the MMO world works.

Are you implying I don't know this after I've farmed out almost every single boss weapon and frame (including Equinox and Mesa) with the only exception being Atlas?

Or after I have spent more than a decade and a half playing MMOs?

Grind isn't necessarily bad.  Arbitrary high grind is.

[Buff00n]

On 1/18/2017 at 6:37 PM, Buff00n said:

It's worth keeping up the pressure on the Mutagen Sample issue because this is a pain that will never go away.  Not only do many current casual and inactive clans have a problem, but every new clan created in the future will have to deal with it if they want to claim 100% research complete some day.  It restricts what purposes a clan can serve and still have access to all research.

 

...

This is a pain that will never go away, and a thread that will never stop being created over and over again.

I stand by what I said 84 pages ago.  It's still just as painful, and the pain is fresh for players that are just now encountering it.  

In a year I fully expect to see this thread still going, or whatever replaces it when this one is finally locked.

[kaliazane]

2 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

I suggest you to give it a try. Ironically, i had best results with a crit build than with pure elemental. For example against corpus, Gas crits paired with viral is not to be taken lightly when 8 bursts (aka 24 bullets) could kill 8 lvl 145 supra heroes. 

That's really the only scenario when it might be somewhat crit viable, just because of how gas procs scale with crit plus lack of armor on corpus. Even then, 18.8 crit chance makes it heavily RNG based and I couldn't replicate 24 bullets to kill 8 of them in few tries I did (even with my dmg+multi+negative riven). However with crit riven and avenger it might be the best choice against corpus.

But it's nice to see that people are finally noticing it's actually really good weapon.  https://streamable.com/qeksl

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Bad Clan managment and bad "Playstyle", these are 2 major problems here. Unfortunatly this problems must be discovered by players themself because noone is able to exchange the mentality of others.

[Almagnus1]

Just now, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Bad Clan managment and bad "Playstyle", these are 2 major problems here. Unfortunatly this problems must be discovered by players themself because noone is able to exchange the mentality of others.

Are you seriously suggesting I kick out all the AFK players from my clan and recruit fresh ones to replace them?  That clan happens to be RL friends from college, and includes one who's recently become a father.

That's one of the most cold hearted and self serving suggestions I have heard yet on this thread.

[Gamma745]

1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:

Are you seriously suggesting I kick out all the AFK players from my clan and recruit fresh ones to replace them?  That clan happens to be RL friends from college, and includes one who's recently become a father.

That's one of the most cold hearted and self serving suggestions I have heard yet on this thread.

Actually, that suggestion have already been thrown multiple times in the earlier pages.

[Evanescent]

Wait wait wait, I'm curious.

So people are proud that their clans did the grind and got the weapon. They're proud of the effort.

How does making the weapon more accessible take away the effort? I mean, did it make it so that you aren't proud of your clan anymore, because they somehow magically undid the grind?

I am sorry, I don't see it. If someone could show me a nuanced argument from this front...?

And then there are the 'I did it, so other people should do it' argument. Typical case of survivor's bias

What it means for the curious: 

Spoiler

Survivorship bias or survival bias is the logical error of concentrating on the people or things that made it past some selection process and overlooking those that did not, typically because of their lack of visibility. This can lead to false conclusions in several different ways. It is a form of selection bias.

This is blatantly ignoring the different circumstances and obstacles that vary from people to people and group to group. It is simply not true that everyone has the same kind of starting off point, even between clans of the same tier.

 

[Gamma745]

3 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

I recommend saving your energy for future "hemas" so when it's actually needed and when DE seems to break their own words again. Reading through this thread every now and then gives me the question: "Why do they still bother if it's clear it won't get changed?". And it looks to me that this is just a mud fight anymore. I can only say as much that you anti-hema people should finally realize that you can't impress the opposition (defenders) to change their opinion on it no matter your arguments (the page count should really have made it clear). You're just fueling them more. And vice versa it's the same.

Sad to admit it but, at this point, it's really time to move on before this turns into another "Bring back excalibur prime!".

Peace.

Sad to agree. But if DE decided to go back on their words again and put forth a new 'Hema', I think I'll just keep my opinion to myself. No more forums, no more feedback. DE doesn't listen anymore, so why should I say anything? This thread is just mostly to make sure to let DE know this decision is still not okay even with time.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

On 24. 3. 2017 at 9:28 AM, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

 

I went to another town for great job, rent a flat, but deal with owner ended. Should i cry? No, I go and found a house for rent, but it's for 10 persons. Should I compare with previous flat, because the rent is 10x higher? No, because I will loose my job. Nvm I made my own  decision to work harder and longer to cover rent alone. I worked 13hrs/day and 2hrs cost me journey to job, so I get idea to buy a car, ups, I discovered that I have no money for that because 4/5 of my money income goes to rent and that the idea hits me: Halo it's house for 10 people. I found another 9 people and now work less harder, have free time, because I'm not dead tired from work and finally I bought a car.

Solo Clan: absolutely absurd connection, Clan is more then 4 people, iirc, and it's players own decision as mine to pay a rent for 10 people.

28 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

Are you seriously suggesting I kick out all the AFK players from my clan and recruit fresh ones to replace them?  That clan happens to be RL friends from college, and includes one who's recently become a father.

That's one of the most cold hearted and self serving suggestions I have heard yet on this thread.

If your, let's say, 3 friend make decision to not pay the rent will u pay it for them? Again, its your own decision and  blame DE for that makes me angry. 

 

[Gamma745]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

 

Been meaning to ask about this, but almost can't since it's pages ago.

Clans are paralleled with houses. People who can only afford to pay for themselves should look for cheap, small houses that probably only hold one or two people. One person paying for a 10-man house is absurd, so that person should look for a cheaper living space if they can afford it.

With that parallel, Solo players should look for a cheaper Clan, something that they can afford by themselves. Oh wait, they can't, since the smallest Clan is for 10 people. What they should do? Farm and grind for 10 people worth because there's no other alternative? Or not be in the Clan at all and be locked out of multiple gear (and Dragon Key) behind the Clan Research?

[(PSN)Onder6099]

10 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

Been meaning to ask about this, but almost can't since it's pages ago.

Clans are paralleled with houses. People who can only afford to pay for themselves should look for cheap, small houses that probably only hold one or two people. One person paying for a 10-man house is absurd, so that person should look for a cheaper living space if they can afford it.

There wasn't another option, same like here

 

10 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

 

With that parallel, Solo players should look for a cheaper Clan, something that they can afford by themselves. Oh wait, they can't, since the smallest Clan is for 10 people. What they should do? Farm and grind for 10 people worth because there's no other alternative? Or not be in the Clan at all and be locked out of multiple gear (and Dragon Key) behind the Clan Research?

Will rentier low down rent price because u r only 1? What is so hard to understand that if Clan has 1 member or 10 where 8 are casuals, caught, or etc. it's just their own decision and problem.

Edited May 15, 2017 by (PS4)Onder6099

[Almagnus1]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

 

And that is a sure fire way to be the person that sits alone in their house with only shallow friendships in an MMO.

It's better for everyone involved NOT to kick out RL friends, especially since those friendships have spanned over a decade.  In the case of Warframe, we cover for one another with the research as we're not asking for anyone TO do the research, just contribute as they want to.  With the case of Hema specifically, the 5000 sample cost is going to get carried by a minority of the clan just cause RL is pulling people away from grinds just because it's what happens with RL from time to time.

I mean, we're the very definition of a casual play group, and to suggest that we cause RL static over who's in the ingame clan is complete and total idiocy - and also highly offensive and disrespectful.  The top priority of our lives is not Warframe - and for anyone here that says Warframe is #1 priority and isn't a streamer seriously needs to go reevaluate their life.

[Chites]

Say what you will about grinding or "well I did it so it's fine, don't you dare make it easier on these scrubs", I just think it's absolutely ridiculous that 90% of the combined total amount of a single resource in the game goes into researching a single weapon. It takes 9 times as many mutagen samples just to research the Hema as it takes to research and make literally every other item in the entire game that uses mutagen samples. I personally don't care about the weapon itself or the affinity or whatever, but it really seems to me like they just designed it to be a way for old-time players to get rid of their stockpile of Technocyte poop.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

37 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

And that is a sure fire way to be the person that sits alone in their house with only shallow friendships in an MMO.

It's better for everyone involved NOT to kick out RL friends, especially since those friendships have spanned over a decade.  In the case of Warframe, we cover for one another with the research as we're not asking for anyone TO do the research, just contribute as they want to.  With the case of Hema specifically, the 5000 sample cost is going to get carried by a minority of the clan just cause RL is pulling people away from grinds just because it's what happens with RL from time to time.

I mean, we're the very definition of a casual play group, and to suggest that we cause RL static over who's in the ingame clan is complete and total idiocy - and also highly offensive and disrespectful.  The top priority of our lives is not Warframe - and for anyone here that says Warframe is #1 priority and isn't a streamer seriously needs to go reevaluate their life.

Kick or not to kick, it's up to u, but u must count with consequences. I hope your friendship is also reflected by your friends and they spend just around 20 min in ODD to get few MS every time they Log in. In General we have 3 groups of casual/friends: 

1. Log in after Update to do what is necessary for them and adieu

2. Casually Log in to do what they need

3. Minority is willing to help 

Tbh which Question from Casuals is more frequent: Where is best place to farm Relics, PP? or Which research needs contribution?

We are slowly hit the 2nd Main problem here, playstile. Greed and Profit are ruling Real world, unfortunately decent amount of players are implementing this habits here and headlessly running just few Nodes absolutely ignoring fact that they will miss resources from another Nodes/Planets and when it comes they starts blaming DE for their fault. 1 example for all: Dude have 720k Cryotics I give him 720 days in game, it's 10 Excavators per day which is equal (if not more) to 20 waves of ODD, but of course it's not Grind because he is farming Relics and now question: how many Fieldron Samples this Dude have? Around 50k? Someone clever here counted that FS drops 3x more than MS so if I add Hema into Corpus research and increased it 3x this dude will not has any problem to cover Shadow Clan requires alone. I can bet when I add 2k Kuva as a ODD rot C reward a problem with MS will be solved in split second.

I'm afraid that decent amount of players missing a little bit of Selfcriticism here.

Edited May 15, 2017 by (PS4)Onder6099

[Sirfol]

Well well well.

I think this is a conundrum.

From my experience in mmos i can say this all' super grindy hema situation is on the people that didn't experience what true grind really is.

I played metin2 and i assure you all that this game have very Little grind compared to that, hell warframe have less grind of Black rock FPS. It's subjective at this point.

We always had weapons that when came out you needed, what, 2 hours to grind the resources and out it on cooking?

Now we have a weapon (the only One) that take a little effort (from freetoplay standards) and people who were used to the pratically solo clan resources gathering standard rant. 

Think about this, if all warframes were single characters Locked and you will have to start from scratch anytime you wanted a new One, do you think hema will became a problem? I don't think so, but that's the world of the majority of freetoplay design before warframe.

People in the game feel the burn-out at 800-1000 hours usually, that's the playtime of 20 final fantasy or 10 times the witcher 3 100%  completion. A Pretty big deal if i ask me. It gives more than it ask.

[Volinus7]

Due to the repetition and trivialization of the most of gameplay Warframe player retention puts almost all of its weight on when new gears are finished in the foundry which gives players a burst of dopamine. What happened to Pavlov's dog when the food didn't come? it stopped salivating, "Extinction" in psychological term.

Hema is more like a withdrawal symptom when the brain is begging for dopamine. 

I think it's a good reminder for players to see operant conditioning and sunk cost stacking. 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Volinus7

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

13 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

Seriously dude, at least try to make a weapon work before branding it bad. I remember you saying similar thing about zarr, profile check revealed you killed 34 enemies with it. In case of Hema it's 6 enemies...

Not gonna waste my time and forma on a mediocre gun. I also got a good riven for it that isn't selling because nobody wants it. I got enough good guns to forma and put rivens on.

If you can make a bad gun work for you then good for you. I don't bother anymore unless it's top tier.

Edited May 15, 2017 by xXx_mtv_xXx

[ProfessorLitmus]

I find it strange and annoying that this topic has been moved to general discussion from feedback. looks like someone wants to bury this thing again.

[Liminal]

17 minutes ago, ProfessorLitmus said:

I find it strange and annoying that this topic has been moved to general discussion from feedback. looks like someone wants to bury this thing again.

That's pretty sad, since it's legit feedback.

However, I don't believe being in general discussion will bury it, I think it's the most active subforum, is it not?

[LoveNot]

I decided to do another ODD mission for 20 waves, to see Muta drop rates again, In a pub match it this much

still have 11k left, to donate and Still a weapon that'll take years to get for no reason

The struggle for regular casual players means nothing apparently~

This is without boosters/Nekros/ Any resource benefits.

This doesn't help anything about the discussion but adds another pointless cry that'll never be heard~

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by LoveNot
Small Edit

[cghawk]

whenever I see the HEMA I'm reminded why I stopped spending money, pay to skip grind is to be expected but not to this degree, it would take me a year to research this thing if I were to play nothing but derelict, this feels like I'm playing on a mobile game where the wait/grind time for something is so huge that that's no way to be competitive without spending money.

[Ditto132]

On 2017-5-15 at 0:19 AM, AlphaTheFinalBalance said:

We will be using those resources for relay rebuilding I think is what scott hinted at in a dev stream. So thankfully that time will not be for nought because we will have our very own #Science relay to blow up for science.

Also #RebuildStrata

I posted something similar in DevStream78 thread: 

Quote

an idea of crafting a mini death star to replace my Liset using my one million alloy plates

And now to add on, all Tennos to contribute and build a Death Star to fight with the Formorians :D
 

On 2017-5-16 at 7:27 AM, LoveNot said:

This doesn't help anything about the discussion but adds another pointless cry that'll never be heard~

This shows that you just can't casually play and get the Hema research done like someone said.
Leveling and playing in Derelict while getting some Mutagen Samples.

 

On 2017-5-16 at 5:25 PM, cghawk said:

whenever I see the HEMA I'm reminded why I stopped spending money, pay to skip grind is to be expected but not to this degree, it would take me a year to research this thing if I were to play nothing but derelict, this feels like I'm playing on a mobile game where the wait/grind time for something is so huge that that's no way to be competitive without spending money.

I regretted spending money...

Warframe is becoming like Farmville.