Making the Void a Bit more relevant (again)

[MBaldelli]

Word has reached me of the possibility of removing the Void Missions from the game since Void Towers have been reworked to the relic system.  However, while it's nice to see it as a place to farm Argon (which is paltry for drops in the Alert System), perhaps another re-purpose needs to be introduce since the Alert System has the same sort of paltry offering from the Alert System:  Trace Farming.  

You can keep the drop tables about the same as the Alerts, which if done enough players will be able to get what they need when they need the traces for refinement. 

Think about it along with the promise made about the game having less grind.  

[Marine027]

Other question is in this i ask in this, why sohuld only always Void be important, why not every Planet having his own reaosn to go there, instead of focusing back on those.

Instead of lettign tilesets go to waist we barely see or seen to much like in Void missions.

[LSG501]

Yeah void isn't the only location with issues...

Void - needs 'something' special, something specific like ready crafted forma or even reactor/catalyst/exilus adapter bp could be stuck in the drop tables.

Derelict - could do with being opened up to public groups (except maybe assassination) rather than being invite/solo only but I'd personally like to see corrupted mods stuck in defence/survival reward tables as well.  Because of the requirement to craft specific teams for the vaults it's not always possible to go hunt for corrupted mods.   But I hear you say mutagen samples (and orokin cells) are raining there... well thats fine until you've actually got the hema then it's back to being a completely pointless exercise going there once you've got enough orokin cells and mutagen cells imo. 

Kuva Fortress - why does this not at the very least have kuva in the drop table?  Apart from that one tonfa stance, which to be honest I'm not overly bothered about, there isn't really any other reason (as far as I know) to go there once it's been completed.  There's so little incentive that I haven't even cleared all the map locations on the fortress....

When you think about it thought there's a lot more than 'a reason to go there' that needs to be fixed on the maps.  How many of us go to the earlier map locations like earth when we start to get high end gear... taking MR10+ gear to your starter levels is kind of a joke really and there needs to be something put in place for higher level players/gear can be used on ALL the map rather than just the higher level ones. 

[-dicht.Seleszi-]

In my opinion, Void should be kept in the game no matter what. It is the only "purely Orokin" tileset we have in the game, and it might play a role in future quests, some people also simply enjoy the tileset, you're free to play Void missions, but no one will force you to play them.

[[DE]Rebecca]

As you've probably already noticed with the relationship between Alerts + Void, if an Alert is in the Void (without a big prize attached), it gets... 10 Void Traces.

Over the past 1000 Alerts, 42 have include 10 Void Traces.

We're going to increase these Void Alerts to contain 20 Void Traces in the next deployment - for reference right now the max amount of Traces you can get from a Fissure mission without boosters is 30. Perhaps that'll be more trips to the Void in your future by way of these Alerts?

[Sajochi]

1 minute ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

As you've probably already noticed with the relationship between Alerts + Void, if an Alert is in the Void (without a big prize attached), it gets... 10 Void Traces.

Over the past 1000 Alerts, 42 have include 10 Void Traces.

We're going to increase these Void Alerts to contain 20 Void Traces in the next deployment - for reference right now the max amount of Traces you can get from a Fissure mission without boosters is 30. Perhaps that'll be more trips to the Void in your future by way of these Alerts?

What if alongside that, you can have some kind of rare locker like the caches that contain 3-5 traces as well.

[Homer87]

6 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

As you've probably already noticed with the relationship between Alerts + Void, if an Alert is in the Void (without a big prize attached), it gets... 10 Void Traces.

Over the past 1000 Alerts, 42 have include 10 Void Traces.

We're going to increase these Void Alerts to contain 20 Void Traces in the next deployment - for reference right now the max amount of Traces you can get from a Fissure mission without boosters is 30. Perhaps that'll be more trips to the Void in your future by way of these Alerts?

Alerts work well for this. Perhaps throwing some traces in void sabotage caches might help?

[Xekrin]

11 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Perhaps that'll be more trips to the Void in your future by way of these Alerts?

For fast alerts yes endless no and still no reason to do endless at all

 

[ENGINEEEEER]

26 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

As you've probably already noticed with the relationship between Alerts + Void, if an Alert is in the Void (without a big prize attached), it gets... 10 Void Traces.

Over the past 1000 Alerts, 42 have include 10 Void Traces.

We're going to increase these Void Alerts to contain 20 Void Traces in the next deployment - for reference right now the max amount of Traces you can get from a Fissure mission without boosters is 30. Perhaps that'll be more trips to the Void in your future by way of these Alerts?

I don't think it will. Void traces only help a little and alerts are barely worth anything unless it's nitain or gift of the lotus. If a void fissures without a booster can give 30 and I can do that faster and more consistently than the alert I'll probably do that. Even better if I have relics to burn. And fissures are affected by boosters unlike alert rewards. 

Also 20 is far too low as it's barely more than  I the average for a void fissure mission. Let's note that you'd need 5 of these alerts to make one radiant. If you're only catching one a day that's five days to get one, single 10% chance at a rare item. It's better than nothing but depending on the alert it may not be better than a void fissure. It's like your endo alerts. No one does an alert for 40 endo. You can get more than that in any mission and be accomplished polishing something else. 

To make the void useful here's some ideas:

Maybe add lenses to void drops to undilute the sortie drop table.

And it'd be very nice to have a weekly quest that involves the void that gives one guaranteed riven (alternating between secondary and primary each week). This would make the system more accessible and help those with bad luck.

Finally make an actual and useful source of nitain because the sabotage drop is entirely useless. It doesn't have to be guaranteed but some way to have an actual shot at more nitain. 

Please really look at the game economy and other methods of attaining resources. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by ENGINEEEEER
Added clarifications

[ENGINEEEEER]

On 3/18/2017 at 11:48 AM, LSG501 said:

Yeah void isn't the only location with issues...

Void - needs 'something' special, something specific like ready crafted forma or even reactor/catalyst/exilus adapter bp could be stuck in the drop tables.

Derelict - could do with being opened up to public groups (except maybe assassination) rather than being invite/solo only but I'd personally like to see corrupted mods stuck in defence/survival reward tables as well.  Because of the requirement to craft specific teams for the vaults it's not always possible to go hunt for corrupted mods.   But I hear you say mutagen samples (and orokin cells) are raining there... well thats fine until you've actually got the hema then it's back to being a completely pointless exercise going there once you've got enough orokin cells and mutagen cells imo. 

Kuva Fortress - why does this not at the very least have kuva in the drop table?  Apart from that one tonfa stance, which to be honest I'm not overly bothered about, there isn't really any other reason (as far as I know) to go there once it's been completed.  There's so little incentive that I haven't even cleared all the map locations on the fortress....

When you think about it thought there's a lot more than 'a reason to go there' that needs to be fixed on the maps.  How many of us go to the earlier map locations like earth when we start to get high end gear... taking MR10+ gear to your starter levels is kind of a joke really and there needs to be something put in place for higher level players/gear can be used on ALL the map rather than just the higher level ones. 

The derelict absolutely needs to be opened up to matchmaking. Maybe make the keys infinite use so you have to build them once still but then you don't have to recruit for every derelict game. This is one of the only keyed areas in the game. 

Speaking of keys, mutalist Alad V is due to remove his key access like vay hek. I know Mesa is strong but it is a ridiculous time gate at this stage. 

[HC217]

why not just make the void a great place to farm relics? makes a whole lot of sense lore-wise

[xxswatelitexx]

To make void relevant again - simply rework the loot list. 
 

Have all rotations drop Relics.
With C rotations - have a chance of dropping vaulted relics at 40 minutes later ( 2nd C round + )  

Edited March 28, 2017 by xxswatelitexx

[mrecentric]

42 out of 1000 is a fraction of a percent. Perhaps you should do more of them?

Edited March 28, 2017 by mrecentric

[Sannidor]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

As you've probably already noticed with the relationship between Alerts + Void, if an Alert is in the Void (without a big prize attached), it gets... 10 Void Traces.

Over the past 1000 Alerts, 42 have include 10 Void Traces.

We're going to increase these Void Alerts to contain 20 Void Traces in the next deployment - for reference right now the max amount of Traces you can get from a Fissure mission without boosters is 30. Perhaps that'll be more trips to the Void in your future by way of these Alerts?

That's still not worth the effort.

Some good stuff must drop exclusively from Void missions. Vaulted relics, traces in amounts from 200 up, maybe even Kuva since you are too stubborn to make it a regular drop from Kuva Fortress.

[(XBOX)x Varda x]

I still can't see myself doing an alert for twenty traces when I can run a couple of quick fissures for the same (or more!) traces and also get prime shinies.

As these alerts are quite uncommon, would it be acceptable to increase the traces to something higher like 50? I'd probably run that.

[Finedaible]

(forgot quote)

Edited March 29, 2017 by Finedaible

[Finedaible]

3 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

As you've probably already noticed with the relationship between Alerts + Void, if an Alert is in the Void (without a big prize attached), it gets... 10 Void Traces.

Over the past 1000 Alerts, 42 have include 10 Void Traces.

We're going to increase these Void Alerts to contain 20 Void Traces in the next deployment - for reference right now the max amount of Traces you can get from a Fissure mission without boosters is 30. Perhaps that'll be more trips to the Void in your future by way of these Alerts?

 

This is good. Makes alerts more worthwhile.

I think the Void could be more interesting if it got a proper boss on a node though. Corrupted Vor is cool, but he's more of a field boss who's existence is still an enigma to us players. Will we ever see what entity is responsible for the Corruption process and fissures? What about this "Neural Sentry" the Lotus keeps referencing? Could it perhaps be a cephalon created to ensure the protection of the secrets of the Orokin Towers? There's a lot of potential material here for a boss and/or a Void Trial.

Just my thoughts on that.

[Nezha_Rose]

11 minutes ago, Finedaible said:

This is good. Makes the alerts more worthwhile.

I do think the Void would be more interesting if it had a proper boss node. Corrupted Vor is cool, but are we ever going to see the being responsible for Corruption? What is this "Neural Sentry" the Lotus keeps referencing? Could it be a cephalon in charge of the Orokin Towers' protection? There's a lot of material for either a boss or even a Void Trial.

Just my thoughts on that.

Agreed. Void has alot of story behind it. Each tower is like a relic of its own, and it looks beutiful... as orokin designed. One of the few tilesets that goes away from cave, spaceship, factory, underwater, ice, desert and royal cave look. Its bright, and pretty good ambience music to boot.

A void boss would hype me the f up! Void arwing too if its done well (who knows, its possible, no rubble in space... just void.)

Edited March 29, 2017 by Nezha_Rose

[Urlan]

While the maximum might be 30, the most common trace reward in my experience doing fissures, is around 7 traces, I don't run void trace alert missions much like I don't run relics as much compared to void keys, its not rewarding for the time spent. I have found that running relics without making them radiant has terrible drop rates, but also got forma much of the time when I was looking for extra copies of Fragor parts a while ago and those were radiant. While I always welcome making things more approachable for players, I don't think that relics and traces do that; and considering you need 100 traces to get Radiant state on a relic the current trace levels - missions and alerts - don't help.

[--Q--uixotic]

I don't understand why anyone would run an alert for 10 traces when they can run a fissure for more than that and also get a prime part.

Getting 20 helps, but I would still rather do a defense or survival fissure. 

[Xzorn]

Why is the Void important? Well put simply, Endurance runs.

Grineer:   Napalm, Scorch, Commander, Hyeka Master

Corpus:   Tech, Sapping Osprey, Nullifier, Bursa

Infested:   Toxic Ancient, Ancient Disruptor, Mutalist Osprey

Void:   Corrupted Nullifier

These are enemies in the game which absolutely break post lvl 100. They're design or updates in design were done with no regard to enemy scaling and as a result they create entirely unfair situations for players to deal with requiring very specific tactics, aka Cheese. The Void has the most fair supply of enemy types.

I understand the majority of players don't do content past lvl 100 but that doesn't mean it should be ignored either because after another year of Power Creep; even the majority might find themselves getting unfairly one shot by everything, getting their 600 energy one-shot by one of ten incoming Disruptor Hooks. or getting teleported by a Commander only to die during the stun, unable to do a damn thing about it.

I have no problem playing on other tiles. It's the enemies on those tiles I have a problem with.

[Zahnny]

10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

As you've probably already noticed with the relationship between Alerts + Void, if an Alert is in the Void (without a big prize attached), it gets... 10 Void Traces.

Over the past 1000 Alerts, 42 have include 10 Void Traces.

We're going to increase these Void Alerts to contain 20 Void Traces in the next deployment - for reference right now the max amount of Traces you can get from a Fissure mission without boosters is 30. Perhaps that'll be more trips to the Void in your future by way of these Alerts?

Not accusing you Rebecca dispite my wording but more of whoever thinks this is a good idea but I think you're missing the point with Void and Alerts. Not taking into account RNG gives some rubbish missions but the alerts don't feel "rewarding" in the slightest. Regular Fissure missions will be superior because someone is normally always running a relic, as you've stated there is a chance for a max of 30 traces which is seen as the superior alternative and having a relic means you're getting rewarded a prime part that may be something you're looking for or in the very least it's ducat fodder. Even if alerts gave 30 or even  higher fissures will be seen as superior because of prime parts alone, and even if it is over 100 traces if the RNG puts you on a survival or defense most people will see it as faster to run fissure missions.

The best thing I can think of to make the void relevent or at least the alerts better without adding new content or mechanics is to maybe have "relic packs" like you get from syndicates, or just simply higher relic droprates, or maybe something as simple as a rare chance all orokin containers drop a relic similar to Lephantis nav co-ordinates except maybe a bit more rarer to drop.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Zahnny
typos

[kuchn]

59 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

These are enemies in the game which absolutely break post lvl 100. They're design or updates in design were done with no regard to enemy scaling and as a result they create entirely unfair situations for players to deal with requiring very specific tactics, aka Cheese. The Void has the most fair supply of enemy types.

this!
i often play mot, and my playstyle is very fast paced and offensive..i don't camp, ever, and i absolutely don't cheese...that's how i like to play
can you imagine how frustrating it is to be 50minutes in, moving around, doing trickshots, avoiding getting oneshot since 30 minutes (nova...) only to get oneshot by a nullifier in the very instant he enters LoS across the entire map while being airborne? no skill in the world can avoid that...that is just broken...similar thing with napalms...
my point is:
1) i want to be rewarded for being able to do 1hour and more in mot without any camp or cheese...20 void traces? only on alerts? where is the reward in that?!
2) when you buffed the aimbot of nullifiers you really hurt my game..they were annoying enough before

Edited March 29, 2017 by kuchn

[Nazzami]

12 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

As you've probably already noticed with the relationship between Alerts + Void, if an Alert is in the Void (without a big prize attached), it gets... 10 Void Traces.

Over the past 1000 Alerts, 42 have include 10 Void Traces.

We're going to increase these Void Alerts to contain 20 Void Traces in the next deployment - for reference right now the max amount of Traces you can get from a Fissure mission without boosters is 30. Perhaps that'll be more trips to the Void in your future by way of these Alerts?

This is Okish for non-endless void alerts but does not change that the normal void missions have nothing going for them their is no reason to play them.

I think it would have been better to remove the void as a location on the star map and instead have a kind of void tear mini event that appears around different planets, go into the void do x mission be rewarded with a relic or relics in endless missions (since that makes sense from a lore perceptive).

Edited March 29, 2017 by Nazzami

[xLUONG]

Been out of the loop for a looong time. But are people really talking about removing the Void tileset as a whole? Or is it word among the playerbase?
That would be a sad turn of events for me personally.

I still play endless missions in the Void because it's good fun/challenging and because nostalgia. Getting some other incentive for playing there would make me a very happy gamer indeed. But I'd rather have the Void as is, rather then removing them entirely.