the nerf/buff mentality.

[SDGDen]

so. let me ask you all something. why the vay hek are you all complaining about stuff like the simulor and tonkor nerfs, and limbo's rework, and the telos boltace nerf?

because before that all happened YOU ALL FURAXING ASKED FOR THAT EXACT THING!

now im mostly pointing at the people who just said "ermagerd telos boltace is overpowered" that turned into "ermagerd telos boltace is weaker than hydroid in puddle form" and the likes. aka the people who said "nerf X" without saying why.

please. dont post "NERF HYDROID" and "BUFF MIRAGE!" posts unless you know what the vaykor hek you are talking about, and if you have good points to back it up. because telling DE to make bad game design choices only leads to others telling DE to make more bad game design choices.

 

as someone who knows a fair bit about game design. i can already tell you first hand that game designers cant realy do anything about things being overpowered or underpowered unless they know exactly how they are underpowered or overpowered.....

a good example of this is the recent simulor nerf. as we all know the simulor has been overpowered for ages, but untill recently nobody came out and put up a post saying why the simulor is so overpowered.... the merge damage/range especially on mirage due to the damage being decided by the main blob, not the clone blobs. so thats exactly what DE changed and they buffed the rest of simulor to make up for it. there are people who might not like it but it is in fact a good game design choice....

compare that to the tonkor nerf. they basically just looked at all the potential features of tonkor that could make it op and decided to nerf them all, because we didnt tell them exactly what was OP about it.

 

same goes for limbo. pre rework there where just a few people who where good at limbo, the rest of the players wasnt good at limbo and because this game isnt realy skill based that got translated as limbo being underpowered. skip ahead about a 15 months and DE decided to rework limbo because according to the comunity he is realy realy realy bad. but because once again, we didnt tell them what should be improved about limbo, they went and gave him a scaling damage spamable cataclysm.

 

TL;DR

be smart about demanding buffs or nerfs, always add why and how things should be changed according to you. it gives a way better visual on what is actualy wrong with the thing you are talking about than just "nerf X"

[Hypernaut1]

Maybe they aren't the same people? Who are you talking to?

[SilvaDreams]

This is the normal buff/nerf mentality.

[Betcha]

the problem is that the people give way too much attention to posts about nerfs.

If we ignore the cancer posts, will be same like with Gas, years of using till forum got on fire with it.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

5 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Maybe they aren't the same people? Who are you talking to?

/thread

[13QZXXTTX]

Bra, try to tell people their problems, they can't even admit it out loud, that another problem.

Soma Prime, I didn't like to use it, stats good. When I got it, I was happy I got some thing good.

 Buff and Nerf ONLY in the end serve to level the playing field. Best applied on game with permanent level and limitation. I did have to learn that.

Yeah the Buff and Nerf mentality won't be a good habit for future game, namely Virtual Reality based game. Nevertheless, DE does fix WF well.

3 hours ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

TL;DR

be smart about demanding buffs or nerfs, always add why and how things should be changed according to you. it gives a way better visual on what is actualy wrong with the thing you are talking about than just "nerf X"

         Every game there would be some party s***er.

Edited April 7, 2017 by DesFrSpace

[DeMonkey]

8 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

~snip~

Seeing a lot of that after Limbo's rework unfortunately.

''He's only just been made useful now, no nerf, only moar buff!''

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

also can we please stop throwing around those silly "mentality" terms?! the idea someone would ALWAYS want EVERYTHING to be exclusively nerfed or buffed just out of principle is completely absurd, it's just a way to reduce counter-argumentors into an easily adressable (preferably negative) "mass". srsly.

[Xaero]

I was expecting to see any screenshots of the same people asking for nerfs and then complaining about them.

Anyways, the game hasn't become harder to play and I keep seeing bigger gear diversity among random players so what's the problem?

[Madway7]

It's amazing how it's always the perfect OP that seems to be the only person that's not a hyprocrite. Good job OP. Keep pointing out all the flaws in us 99.99% of us forum dwellers.

 

[kyori]

People who called out for nerf are those whose ego n pride are hurt because they cannot get top kills.

Else this is a co-op or solo game, why should anyone be pissed if enemies are killed and missions completed?

It only makes sense if this is a sole pvp game but this is not. Oh well....

[PakkiTheDog]

I think most players saying weapons/frames are overpowered play low lvl missions and dislike being overshadowed by other players, kill wise. If a weapon or a frame is game brakingly OP than i'm ok whit a nerf. If a weapon/frame is a bit better than other weapons a nerf is not justifiable in my opinion. That is why i disliked the nerf of telos boltace, simulor and tonkor, at high lvl missions they were not game braking.

And the boltace nerf is the worst possible. The new mechanic is weak and stupid. First of the pull is weak, sometimes enemies just stumble a bit. Now the most powerful thing about boltace is its spin attack, so it would be logical that enemies would stay close to you so you can kill them....but no, the second spin attack scatters them around the map. This mechanic makes no sense. And i know, there were kids saying that they were losing kills but in my experience when another tenno had a telos boltace/tonkor/simulor i was capable of dealing similar dmg as him whit my rakta cernos or euphona prime and frame of choice. If you are powerful (well moded frames, weapons) play high lvl missions, otherwise everything will feel overpowered.

 

The only nerf i'm thinking about that might be justifiable is the limbo nerf, his cataclysm nuke build. Everybody is talking about limbo like the nuke build is the only build that makes him powerful. The CC build (max duration and range) makes him one of the best CC frames we have. If they nerf his dmg capabilities he'll still be a very powerful frame.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

seems like when there isn't an actual nerf thread, we're talking about the nerf mentality instead. will we ever break free of this asinine cycle of trying to understand other people's way of thinking that only ever leads to generalizations and toxicity? I doubt it sadly. nerfs usually come from two sources

- things that are genuinely game breaking.

- things that people complain about getting more kills than them.

guess which of these two should be the ONLY ones getting looked at?

 

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Things that trivialize content need to be nerfed.

Things that the community rarely use need buffs.

That's just...how things are.

 

[Lost_Cartographer]

The only time something needs nerfed in Warframe is when it can practically play the game for everyone in the cell.  As a co-op game, there shouldn't be something where one player can press a button and everything dies before anyone else has a chance to do anything to contribute.

Not everyone agrees with (or recognizes) the above issue - some people want something nerfed on the principle that it shouldn't be super powerful compared to everything else.  

People want things buffed because they like XYZ weapon, but it's effectively garbage past level 30 no matter what you do with it or whatever arbitrary standard they think the weapon should match.  In some cases there's a legit complaint - name one  secondary that handles like the Lato.  Would anyone in their right mind really take the Burston Prime over the Braton Prime?  Why is the Dakra Prime - a farmed weapon - weaker in every way to Broken War - a quest reward?  Why is the machete weapon such garbage and removed from the game for it when upping it's damage numbers is something even a child could do were they to be pointed to the data sheet?

Edited April 7, 2017 by Littleman88

[VentiGlondi]

DE won't listen to your feedback if you don't back it up with solid arguments. Who do you think they are?

Hell, often they won't listen even if you have really good arguments.

40 minutes ago, kyori said:

People who called out for nerf are those whose ego n pride are hurt because they cannot get top kills.

People who complain about nerfs are those whose ego n pride are hurt because they can no longer get top kills.

Edited April 7, 2017 by VentiGlondi

[Volinus7]

Shouldn't expect 100% of players to be able to do simple math and calculus...

Most people are too lazy to do it for DE anyway, it's their job to balance the game not players'. 

[Jobistober]

2 hours ago, Littleman88 said:

The only time something needs nerfed in Warframe is when it can practically play the game for everyone in the cell.  As a co-op game, there shouldn't be something where one player can press a button and everything dies before anyone else has a chance to do anything to contribute.

This ^

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Nerf is too harsh a word for balancing. Buff means the weapon is better but nerf means it's completely useless? Really it should only be reserved for the most damaging changes. Mesa after her peacemaker rework was a nerf. They had to go back and buff her to make it usable. It's like calling everything epic. Devalues actual epics.

[Flashbinder]

Because people complain about their favorite weapon being "nerfed". I don't get why people complain about these things so I don't really talk about it much. I mean sure players will only use about 20 of the 300 something weapons in the game because efficiency, so DE is trying to get us to use other weapons besides those twenty.

[Kaotyke]

9 hours ago, Ksaero said:

I was expecting to see any screenshots of the same people asking for nerfs and then complaining about them.

That would get really close to the line of "Name and Shame" actually.

[(XBOX)Bortis Badtouch]

See the problem is, DE doesn't just nerf it most times, example: tonkor, they didn't nerf it, they dumpstered it, albeit tonkor can still be used for some frames, they took every reason to use it besides a few frame combos with it, don't get me wrong tonkor needed something done to it, just not as ridiculously harsh like it is now, it still had its downsides as well, it was actually really easy to miss small targets with it, but the way they kept it the same for  years, instead of nipping it in the bud early, they wait years and finally dumpster it.

[EmptyDevil]

Pretty sure, most people that asked for nerfs gave significant detail about why the thing in question needed a nerf. If they didn't, then it was glaringly obvious to you, the playerbase, and DE as to why. Also, those people that give no detail and complain later most likely aren't the same people at all.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

On 4/7/2017 at 8:09 AM, Littleman88 said:

The only time something needs nerfed in Warframe is when it can practically play the game for everyone in the cell.  As a co-op game, there shouldn't be something where one player can press a button and everything dies before anyone else has a chance to do anything to contribute.

Oh, ok. I'll bite.

So the Telos Boltace had to be nerfed to the ground on the basis that "macro users compiled a setup to make a slide attack into a one-button mashing spree"? There are players like me that use a controller and actually input the button combination as was intended by the developer's design. 

Also, @djternan made a great post regarding macros:

This tech exists, why is this difficult to implement? And before anyone answers: "Why should implementing this preventive measure logically assume that it requires a high cost in finances and development time"? 

Don't tell me that the Telos Boltace as it is now with the "Suck in and Blow" concept with "Storm Path, then Blast" is a reasonable mechanical change with a dreadful 8 second cooldown time. There's a way to prevent macros from being spammed consistently. There's a way to not implement a cooldown. There are ways to implement changes to a weapon that will not ultimately cripple a weapon's concept down to a creative endeavor that solves nothing in bolstering the weapon's best feature. 

There are nerfs. Not all nerfs are bad. But this nerf on the Telos Boltace is pretty damn bad. And if a nerf is going to be done on a weapon, it should be done right. The removal of the follow-up slide mechanic on "Blast" after Storm Path for the Telos Boltace and the removal of the cooldown timer will be a step in the right direction.

And again, before cries of "That would be too op!" get bombarded on this suggestion, Valkyr's Prolonged Paralysis is a similar concept with the exception that her augmented Power 3 performs a knockdown and expends Shields and some Energy with use. Spammable, has decent range, has decent CC. Tell me why the Telos Boltace can't just keep Storm Path and have no cooldown on the slide mechanic be a thing?