Umbra warframes [Discussion & Appreciation][*spoilers*]

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

16 hours ago, Corial said:

Your answer was bit unclear because both Umbra and Escal Prime were mentioned by LogaMC1995.

I have seen way too many posts about Umbra being this and that recently that I am slowly thinking that do people actually read the OP for facts (and theories)?

Thread merging also confuses some people until they read it few times through or someone notifies about merge.

That aside; yes, older primes are visually less immersive. Umbra takes the design to very interesting direction, and I wonder how they are explained in lore once The Sacrifice finally comes to us.

Aside from the scarf Excal Umbra looks kinda ehhhhhhhh too. Those crescent gold bits on his lower arm and elbows and on his helmet stick out too much to be aesthetically pleasing to normal people. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4

[Corial]

1 hour ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Aside from the scarf Excal Umbra looks kinda ehhhhhhhh too. Those crescent gold bits on his lower arm and elbows and on his helmet stick out too much to be aesthetically pleasing to normal people. 

The enhanced body of Umbra is what makes him look visually stunning. Its like comparing sybaris to sybaris prime 

[LogaMC1995]

1 hour ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

Aside from the scarf Excal Umbra looks kinda ehhhhhhhh too. Those crescent gold bits on his lower arm and elbows and on his helmet stick out too much to be aesthetically pleasing to normal people. 

Apart from the crescents on his arm, everything else is better compared to regular Excal, heck even better than Excal Prime I say. +1 for that sweet scarf.

[Imstillnotsure123]

So, I woke up an hour ago-ish, and immediately I went on Warframe just to get into a good frame of mind. Got on, was like "Hmm, I want to play Oberon Prime". So I equipped Oberon prime and saw that my customization was a bit... off. I went to change the syandana to the Vistapa prime, which I love. Then i read the description: "Twin bands symbolize the balance all Tenno are sworn to uphold". Doesn't seem like much until you realise two things. Number 1, this balance is referenced A LOT throughout the game. This is shown in Oberons codex entry; "Oberon embodies the balance Tenno are sworn to uphold", Oberon Prime with "Protect the balance" and indirectly with lots of other weapons referring to a balance of "offensive and defensive capabilities" like the Silva and Aegis for example. Number 2, what is this balance? Seems like a stupid question, but go into your own Warframe profile and there you see the Orokin balance, judging you by your decisions: Light is good, dark is bad. This "balance" system is used in The War Within and a little in The Glast Gambit with DE saying it will be used more. 

Knowing this, it got me thinking. What is "good" and what is "bad" within the contexts of the game? Its a very subjective answer but you have to think along the lines of the people who created that balance, the Orokin. Equipped with the information that the exact middle is the Tenno, normal warframes and the balance that the Tenno are sworn to uphold, you can work out that the Light section is the primes, the Orokin and the prime Warframes. But this leaves the question, what is the dark? The stalker? Although that would make sense due to the stalker being referenced as "Shadow", its not enough evidence. The grineer/corpus/infested? Again, not enough evidence to prove that they are the dark, especially since the choices that give you a darker balance within the quests don't have anything to do with the grineer/corpus/infested directly.

This leads me to believe that the dark is Umbra, whatever Umbra is. The Anti-Prime, the opposite. The Orokin, light, "good", and Umbra, dark, "evil". This is quite speculative, but it makes sense considering the balance theory. If the middle is the Tenno, balanced, what comes either side of a balance? Yes and no, good and evil, hot and cold, whatever it may be, always a polar opposite. So, the Tenno, a balance between light and dark. Take out the dark, you get pure light, hope, The Orokin, the Primes. Take out the light, you get Umbra, the dark side of the Tenno. Two polar opposites on the same scale, balanced and upheld by the Tenno, as referenced within the game.  

So, my Umbra Theory is that whatever Umbra is, it will A. Involve that balance and B. Reveal the dark side of the Tenno, as shown loosely in The Chains Of Harrow with The Man In The Wall and the "Hey Kiddo" at the end. Umbra means "shadow or darkness" in Latin. What if the Tenno's shadow, its darkness and dark side, is Umbra, with Umbra meaning shadow? What if The Man In The Wall is Umbra? The Tenno's shadow, always there within the presence of light but all consuming within the absence of light, The Man In The Wall that follows them around, is Umbra or at least has something to do with Umbra.

 

Just wanted to write that down and kinda get that out. Maybe this is common knowledge and I don't know it, but it seemed like no one has really seen this or noticed this. 

[EndermanBeast]

That's actually a really good theory, but I don't think The Man In The Wall is Umbra, maybe he's just a dark entity outside of the "balance".

I think the Tenno and Orikin are the "good" and Grineer, Corpus, Sentinel and Umbra (coming) are the bad side of the balance. 

still good theory tho

Edited July 26, 2017 by EndermanBeast

[-DM-Mordred]

Wait... as far as I know The Man In The Wall was Harrow (because you know... being chained to a wall and stuff)

Back on topic, pretty good theory. Also, if I recall correctly Lotus at some point mentioned that the tenno were awakened to balance the Corpus-Grenieer war but im not sure.

[JoshuaAnders]

14 minutes ago, Imstillnotsure123 said:

So, I woke up an hour ago-ish, and immediately I went on Warframe just to get into a good frame of mind. Got on, was like "Hmm, I want to play Oberon Prime". So I equipped Oberon prime and saw that my customization was a bit... off. I went to change the syandana to the Vistapa prime, which I love. Then i read the description: "Twin bands symbolize the balance all Tenno are sworn to uphold". Doesn't seem like much until you realise two things. Number 1, this balance is referenced A LOT throughout the game. This is shown in Oberons codex entry; "Oberon embodies the balance Tenno are sworn to uphold", Oberon Prime with "Protect the balance" and indirectly with lots of other weapons referring to a balance of "offensive and defensive capabilities" like the Silva and Aegis for example. Number 2, what is this balance? Seems like a stupid question, but go into your own Warframe profile and there you see the Orokin balance, judging you by your decisions: Light is good, dark is bad. This "balance" system is used in The War Within and a little in The Glast Gambit with DE saying it will be used more. 

Knowing this, it got me thinking. What is "good" and what is "bad" within the contexts of the game? Its a very subjective answer but you have to think along the lines of the people who created that balance, the Orokin. Equipped with the information that the exact middle is the Tenno, normal warframes and the balance that the Tenno are sworn to uphold, you can work out that the Light section is the primes, the Orokin and the prime Warframes. But this leaves the question, what is the dark? The stalker? Although that would make sense due to the stalker being referenced as "Shadow", its not enough evidence. The grineer/corpus/infested? Again, not enough evidence to prove that they are the dark, especially since the choices that give you a darker balance within the quests don't have anything to do with the grineer/corpus/infested directly.

This leads me to believe that the dark is Umbra, whatever Umbra is. The Anti-Prime, the opposite. The Orokin, light, "good", and Umbra, dark, "evil". This is quite speculative, but it makes sense considering the balance theory. If the middle is the Tenno, balanced, what comes either side of a balance? Yes and no, good and evil, hot and cold, whatever it may be, always a polar opposite. So, the Tenno, a balance between light and dark. Take out the dark, you get pure light, hope, The Orokin, the Primes. Take out the light, you get Umbra, the dark side of the Tenno. Two polar opposites on the same scale, balanced and upheld by the Tenno, as referenced within the game.  

So, my Umbra Theory is that whatever Umbra is, it will A. Involve that balance and B. Reveal the dark side of the Tenno, as shown loosely in The Chains Of Harrow with The Man In The Wall and the "Hey Kiddo" at the end. Umbra means "shadow or darkness" in Latin. What if the Tenno's shadow, its darkness and dark side, is Umbra, with Umbra meaning shadow? What if The Man In The Wall is Umbra? The Tenno's shadow, always there within the presence of light but all consuming within the absence of light, The Man In The Wall that follows them around, is Umbra or at least has something to do with Umbra.

 

Just wanted to write that down and kinda get that out. Maybe this is common knowledge and I don't know it, but it seemed like no one has really seen this or noticed this. 

There is also this duality at play here:

The Primes = slave Warframes that served the Orokin. Essentially mindless automatons or mindless beasts with little to no self-determination. That is, until the Tenno come into play.

The Tenno = a merger of those Warframes with self-deterministic beings capable of conscious thought and free will, therefore choice. The controllers of the Warframes, both Primes and other mass-produced variants.

The Umbra = nomadic Warframes, with their own inherent consciousness, that have no masters, that have no symbiotic relationship with anything, but rather exist on their own, and are completely self-deterministic. Either with having some form of AI present. Or instead, some form of complete consciousness transferral from a once-living being that gives them their self-deterministic nature.

[PrVonTuckIII]

It's very good reasoning, but you really didn't need to. Steve already explicitly said that the Umbras are the dark, twisted counterparts to the Primes.

Still, the point about Umbra being connected to the Man-In-The-Wall is interesting and well thought-out.

[JoshuaAnders]

3 minutes ago, JoshuaAnders said:

There is also this duality at play here:

The Primes = slave Warframes that served the Orokin. Essentially mindless automatons or mindless beasts with little to no self-determination. That is, until the Tenno come into play.

The Tenno = a merger of those Warframes with self-deterministic beings capable of conscious thought and free will, therefore choice. The controllers of the Warframes, both Primes and other mass-produced variants.

The Umbra = nomadic Warframes, with their own inherent consciousness, that have no masters, that have no symbiotic relationship with anything, but rather exist on their own, and are completely self-deterministic. Either with having some form of AI present. Or instead, some form of complete consciousness transferral from a once-living being that gives them their self-deterministic nature.

Also, I would say that it is likely that Stalker is yes, an Umbra.

Although he is an Umbra that has likely gone insane due to living for so long while the Tenno slept, while being trapped in a shell (his Warframe) with almost nothing but his thoughts of revenge / retribution to keep him company. Being so focused on one single objective for so long, but being able to do literally nothing about it drove him completely mad, and now, the fact that the Tenno have awoken has tipped him over the edge and allowed that introverted rage and insanity to come to the surface.

 

[kyori]

31 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Steve already explicitly said that the Umbras are the dark, twisted counterparts to the Primes.

That story is meaningless if they have the same set of power lol.

Dark should be more powerful hence new set of power, else umbra is just another money making frame lol

[Aeon94]

1 hour ago, EndermanBeast said:

That's actually a really good theory, but I don't think The Man In The Wall is Umbra, maybe he's just a dark entity outside of the "balance".

 

1 hour ago, KillMePlis said:

Wait... as far as I know The Man In The Wall was Harrow (because you know... being chained to a wall and stuff)

The Man in the Wall is Void itself. A dark and treacherous entity that drives ppl crazy and turns them into monstrosities as well as messes with operators' minds.

Reminds me of Black/Red Marker from Dead Space.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Aeon94

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, JoshuaAnders said:

There is also this duality at play here:

The Primes = slave Warframes that served the Orokin. Essentially mindless automatons or mindless beasts with little to no self-determination. That is, until the Tenno come into play.

The Tenno = a merger of those Warframes with self-deterministic beings capable of conscious thought and free will, therefore choice. The controllers of the Warframes, both Primes and other mass-produced variants.

The Umbra = nomadic Warframes, with their own inherent consciousness, that have no masters, that have no symbiotic relationship with anything, but rather exist on their own, and are completely self-deterministic. Either with having some form of AI present. Or instead, some form of complete consciousness transferral from a once-living being that gives them their self-deterministic nature.

Now we are getting somewhere ^.

There is more going on here than the westernized, black and white values of absolute good and evil.

The one constant since the Margulis safeguards were removed is the MITW in TWW and CoH.

We don't know if this Void entity is simply drawing it's shape from your mind as a way to influence you or if it is actually a dark, subconscious PART of you that has been given life by the Void energy and thinks it IS a version of you in some way (ID, EGO).

Anyway, I see you having to master the darkest part of yourself in combat (Man vs Self).

If Rell was essentially an Umbra (permanent transference) by choice who succumbed, after centuries, to the Void/MITW "rap,tap,tapping" at his consciousness to break him, then I foresee our New Liset friend being the "Operator" of the Excal Umbra that challenges us.

 

[METAHUMVN]

I like Umbra because he seems more buff for some reason. He seems threatening and imposing. To be honest, not many warframes look that way (no matter how much we try to color them and use different skins and combos and helmets). They just don't have that "umph". But Umbra does - naturally. 

On another note, I just got the horrible idea that Umbras are basically going to be like warframes that are equipped with rivens. Can you imagine...THE POWER. We'll keep pumping kuva or whatever they have then into our umbra frames to make them more and more powerful...

Highly unlikely but still a horrid thought. 

 

[JoshuaAnders]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Now we are getting somewhere ^.

There is more going on here than the westernized, black and white values of absolute good and evil.

The one constant since the Margulis safeguards were removed is the MITW in TWW and CoH.

We don't know if this Void entity is simply drawing it's shape from your mind as a way to influence you or if it is actually a dark, subconscious PART of you that has been given life by the Void energy and thinks it IS a version of you in some way (ID, EGO).

Anyway, I see you having to master the darkest part of yourself in combat (Man vs Self).

If Rell was essentially an Umbra (permanent transference) by choice who succumbed, after centuries, to the Void/MITW "rap,tap,tapping" at his consciousness to break him, then I foresee our New Liset friend being the "Operator" of the Excal Umbra that challenges us.

 

I think it's likely that the man in the wall is an outside entity that has a symbiotic nature and is connected to you via its own form of transferal / projection similar to how the Tenno themselves use transferal to control Warframes. That it is an incorporeal being either living within the void, or that is the Void itself, or a part of the void.

I mean Warframe has pretty much covered all aspects of consciousness in relation to the different types of sentient beings you can have. We have natural biological sentience, transhumanist / technologically altered sentience, artificial intelligence, all of varying degrees. But we have yet to see a confirmed case of non-corporeal sentience. So it would make sense for the man in the wall to be just this. A disembodied entity that has no need for a physical form in itself but that perhaps has an agenda that does require the use of a physical form to complete, hence why he is perhaps attempting to psychically dominate an operator.

I think to a certain degree the situation with the void and the man in the wall is a typical deal with the devil type scenario. In exchange for abilities surpassing those of typical humanoids, the void demon becomes symbiotically connected to you and you sacrifice some of your humanity for the power you hold. And perhaps this ties into Umbra as well, perhaps we must sacrifice our human limitations entirely or at least to a much larger degree than we already have, to be able to channel our void powers that the void demon / man in the wall has given us in a much more prolific manner. Perhaps our human bodies are far too weak to be able to handle anymore power, so in order for us to access more of these powers, we must acquire new bodies that can successfully compensate for the increase in energy usage or whatever. This also kinda ties into current day scientific narratives. That in order for us to truly succeed in unlocking our potential, we must ascend above the human condition and improve ourselves, better ourselves, so that we can take control of our destiny. Hence transhumanism.

The only difference between our relationship to the Warframes and our relationship to the man in the wall, in relation to transferal / psychic projection is, that we the Tenno are sentient in nature and self-deterministic, therefore the man in the wall cannot directly control us unless perhaps he makes a constant effort to break us down over time and gradually overtakes our bodies. The Warframes have little to no sentinence, so it's much easier for us to dominant them psychically. Perhaps this is why we've begun to see him in our orbiter. Perhaps this sudden appearance symbolises him having a stronger hold on our consciousness.

Is the man in the wall actually there? Or are we just perceiving him as he has a greater hold on our senses? 

Ordis has yet to comment on his presence, and as we all know, he tends to comment on any irregularities that occur around the operator and orbiter.

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by JoshuaAnders

[Corial]

28 minutes ago, Umbrapocalypse said:

I like Umbra because he seems more buff for some reason. He seems threatening and imposing. To be honest, not many warframes look that way (no matter how much we try to color them and use different skins and combos and helmets). They just don't have that "umph". But Umbra does - naturally. 

On another note, I just got the horrible idea that Umbras are basically going to be like warframes that are equipped with rivens. Can you imagine...THE POWER. We'll keep pumping kuva or whatever they have then into our umbra frames to make them more and more powerful...

Highly unlikely but still a horrid thought. 

 

pfff, that would be gamebreaking x3

[KiroTheTraveler]

6 hours ago, Vlada91 said:

I think that if umbra is a shadow frame so if he walking in to shadow his passive is so that no 1 can see him. He can be in stealth and he can have more damage in shadow...or shadow can give him restore life and energy.

interesting

[KiroTheTraveler]

Does anyone have a footage of Excalibur Umbra Prime in Second Dream cutscenes? 

[Miser_able]

The thing is, if you look at the image on the morality meter, both high light and high dark end in disaster. The moon causes floods, but the sun starts fires. That's why we have to be balanced, because both options are bad. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Miser_able

[Corial]

1 hour ago, CaptainStrawberry said:

Does anyone have a footage of Excalibur Umbra Prime in Second Dream cutscenes? 

You mean Shadow Stalker?

[PrVonTuckIII]

4 hours ago, kyori said:

That story is meaningless if they have the same set of power lol.

Dark should be more powerful hence new set of power, else umbra is just another money making frame lol

Uhh.... what? Umbra is literally an Excalibur with a new skin, and presumably a new gameplay mechanic thrown in, or altered abilities.. It's not a completely new Frame, for it to have new abilities.

[Vlada91]

2 hours ago, CaptainStrawberry said:

Does anyone have a footage of Excalibur Umbra Prime in Second Dream cutscenes? 

If you did scan him then you can watch him in codex.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Vlada91

[(XBOX)eibonMadness]

give in to the Madness.

 

But in all seriousness, love the theory. Would not suprise me if the man in the wall was related somehow to umbra.

Edited July 26, 2017 by (XB1)eibonMadness

[Ninjadeath721]

5 hours ago, Corial said:

You mean Shadow Stalker?

 

4 hours ago, Vlada91 said:

If you did scan him then you can watch him in codex.

Edited 41 minutes ago by Vlada91

pretty sure they mean this:

in one of the cutscenes, for example the orbiter (could be wrong though)

[Corial]

1 hour ago, Ninjadeath721 said:

 

pretty sure they mean this:

in one of the cutscenes, for example the orbiter (could be wrong though)

Umbra made no appearance in any of cinematic quests until now, with reveal of the sacrifice.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

2 minutes ago, Corial said:

Umbra made no appearance in any of cinematic quests until now, with reveal of the sacrifice.

correct 

though we know from the concept art shadow stalker uses the body