Chroma needs a rework

[NovusNova]

Not sure why people are so surprised by that, especially when DE said they weren't going to tweak Chroma.

[xcenic]

because a little change should incentive people who hate the current chroma to buy the prime access as they do with Mirage, Zephyr, Limbo. People asking for a rework LONG time Before prime announce 

Quote

ot sure why people are so surprised by that, especially when DE said they weren't going to tweak Chroma.

 

[Tsoe]

ok ... chroma rework tomorow

[Shiagur]

does he need to be tweaked?

[Zeclem]

4 minutes ago, Shiagur said:

does he need to be tweaked?

as far as his viability and usefulness goes, not really. hes one of the best, if not the best team buffer frame in the game. 

but he has two abilities that are utterly garbage and serve no real purpose. those should be changed to do something useful at least. 

[maddragonmaster]

on top of that i want my element choice to MATTER. it is not going to matter if we just get a elemental swap ability and some things to encourage elemental swapping. in matter of fact why even bother with any element themed fashion if there is a stinking elemental swapping ability. i have made a sick fire dragon theme, so please tell me that theme wouldn't be ruined with the ability to choose any element. 

[ZodiacShinryu]

3 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

here is another reason i do not want a dam elemental swap replacing spectral scream.

Why are you fixated on 'elemental swap mechanic' and 'replacing spectral scream' as if they are equate to an only action? They do not. We've brought up Ivara, Vauban, and Khora already... they have an ability that has 3 or 4 different options that you choose. That is a basis for the swap everyone wants not to get rid of spectral scream, at least the reasonable people.

4 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

plus being called "master of the elements" doesn't mean you the dam avatar. it means he can survive about anywhere and be anywhere.   they aren't specific enough to dictate him being master of elements whether nature or other.  heck thats what "when all land is in ruin, tenno, chroma will remain" means. it doesn't mean master of 4 elements and what not. 

also the so called lore aka codex says A master of the deadly elements, Chroma can alter his damage output by changing his energy color. so his "lore" basically already states what his abilities allready do and would prove his lore as false if an elemental swap ability was added.

He was never a "master" of an element; Frost, Ember/Nezha, Volt, Saryn all do each element better (and a number of other frames cover the combined elements like Oberon and Radiation). Now that isn't exactly a problem (they are specialists after all) he doesn't need to be the best in any given element to be a "master of elements" he just need access to them and he does and he doesn't. He has access to all the base elements but only functionally no better than anyone else. He doesn't need to be "the avatar" but he should have an edge that others don't and considering Excalibur does his mechanic AND has access to more than one element and combined ones; Chroma is really not looking great in he static functionality.

Now is that codex entry from his frame page? They aren't a great source of lore considering they don't tell a lot of the frame for the first part. It is a brief introduction and description of the frame. "Master of deadly elements" - an introduction to Chroma's theme (the center of the debate of whether he is even fulfilling that itself) and "Chroma can alter his damage output by changing his energy color" - is a description of what he does; that's not lore. Its useful for the codex warframe page because those entries are solely for giving info on the game mechanics of the frame, hence the ability overlay and stats. I hate that DE left the "lore" entries in a few of the warframe pages (and those are "lore" entries as they tell you about the world and events). If you want "lore" you can glean it from Lotus in his actual quest (you know "lore" where an actual in-game character interacts with the subject at hand giving their thoughts on it). She says "One of the most powerful warframes" which he's struggling to be top 10 depending on how broad you grade him on as well as "He has unparalleled adaptability" to which has me double take every time. Excalibur is most certainly parallel to Chroma on his mechanic and there are certainly 4 other warframes that functionally adapt to situations better than Chroma; who doesn't adapt more than he overpowers the situation through shear force.

Besides if "changing energy color" is such a sticking point for you it need not be invalidated with swapping. The animations/effects could change color to match the element with your own energy color adding extra flair. The breath attacks already have different effects based on the element anyway.

4 hours ago, DeadlyCreation said:

changing elements doesnt do shi*t if DE doesnt rework his elements overall. fire is okay -> ice is a worse fire -> poison and electric are just useless. so before thinking about ONLY implementing elemental swap DE should rework the elements in the first place. make each unique and usefull. 

I mean feel free to punctuate that Chroma could use elemental upgrades but perhaps tone down the response type. Swapping is a popular suggestion because people feel that it is something he should have had for a long time but that doesn't mean that is all they are looking for. Even still under the current metric of the game, other than Cold needs a total revamp (lowers enemy armor/attack damage please!) and Toxin could use a melee boon trait, Elemental Ward isn't that bad for the expected ranges of content (which is all that DE cares about). Other than that a swap function hinging on actual fixes to his 1 and 4 is still going to be better than nothing even ignoring Ward. Simply because Chroma would have more proc sources and increased synergy with COverload depending on how much work you put in. Plus adding the functionality to swap is probably the easiest of the tasks people want DE to do for Chroma even if I think DE should put a unique mechanic for swap incentive and synergy. (which would take more work).

[Kronxito]

12 minutes ago, NovusNova said:

Not sure why people are so surprised by that, especially when DE said they weren't going to tweak Chroma.

I didnt know about this, but his 1 and 4 are completely useless.

I would have purchased his prime access if they fixed him as he is currently half a frame.  RIP chroma prime access for me.

Cheers

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Why does everyone want a rework for him?

[ZodiacShinryu]

5 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

i have made a sick fire dragon theme, so please tell me that theme wouldn't be ruined with the ability to choose any element. 

There is the honesty I was looking for. Though (not to be mean but still...) why should DE or anyone else care about YOUR fashion chooses over actual gameplay elements? Design choices are just that 'design choices'. They can increase worth of any element as they see fit though perhaps your actual problem lies in Vex being too powerful even now. Vex puts everyone in a corner because it has equal access across all his forms.

That being said YOU personally don't need to swap elements and can sit in Heat all day if you so choose whether we get the mechanic or not.

[maddragonmaster]

4 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

Why are you fixated on 'elemental swap mechanic' and 'replacing spectral scream' as if they are equate to an only action? They do not. We've brought up Ivara, Vauban, and Khora already... they have an ability that has 3 or 4 different options that you choose. That is a basis for the swap everyone wants not to get rid of spectral scream, at least the reasonable people.

He was never a "master" of an element; Frost, Ember/Nezha, Volt, Saryn all do each element better (and a number of other frames cover the combined elements like Oberon and Radiation). Now that isn't exactly a problem (they are specialists after all) he doesn't need to be the best in any given element to be a "master of elements" he just need access to them and he does and he doesn't. He has access to all the base elements but only functionally no better than anyone else. He doesn't need to be "the avatar" but he should have an edge that others don't and considering Excalibur does his mechanic AND has access to more than one element and combined ones; Chroma is really not looking great in he static functionality.

Now is that codex entry from his frame page? They aren't a great source of lore considering they don't tell a lot of the frame for the first part. It is a brief introduction and description of the frame. "Master of deadly elements" - an introduction to Chroma's theme (the center of the debate of whether he is even fulfilling that itself) and "Chroma can alter his damage output by changing his energy color" - is a description of what he does; that's not lore. Its useful for the codex warframe page because those entries are solely for giving info on the game mechanics of the frame, hence the ability overlay and stats. I hate that DE left the "lore" entries in a few of the warframe pages (and those are "lore" entries as they tell you about the world and events). If you want "lore" you can glean it from Lotus in his actual quest (you know "lore" where an actual in-game character interacts with the subject at hand giving their thoughts on it). She says "One of the most powerful warframes" which he's struggling to be top 10 depending on how broad you grade him on as well as "He has unparalleled adaptability" to which has me double take every time. Excalibur is most certainly parallel to Chroma on his mechanic and there are certainly 4 other warframes that functionally adapt to situations better than Chroma; who doesn't adapt more than he overpowers the situation through shear force.

Besides if "changing energy color" is such a sticking point for you it need not be invalidated with swapping. The animations/effects could change color to match the element with your own energy color adding extra flair. The breath attacks already have different effects based on the element anyway.

I mean feel free to punctuate that Chroma could use elemental upgrades but perhaps tone down the response type. Swapping is a popular suggestion because people feel that it is something he should have had for a long time but that doesn't mean that is all they are looking for. Even still under the current metric of the game, other than Cold needs a total revamp (lowers enemy armor/attack damage please!) and Toxin could use a melee boon trait, Elemental Ward isn't that bad for the expected ranges of content (which is all that DE cares about). Other than that a swap function hinging on actual fixes to his 1 and 4 is still going to be better than nothing even ignoring Ward. Simply because Chroma would have more proc sources and increased synergy with COverload depending on how much work you put in. Plus adding the functionality to swap is probably the easiest of the tasks people want DE to do for Chroma even if I think DE should put a unique mechanic for swap incentive and synergy. (which would take more work).

like i said in my privous post i  want my choice of elements to matter. it wont matter if there is a swapping ability. plus DE needs to work on chroma being more active through his abilities. so far we got a pathetic spectral scream the elemental breath, elemental ward a buff, vex armor another buff, and effigy something that you just place and forget till the energy drain catches up. i can get bored of just using weapons really quick.  a simple elemental swap will do nothing if the abilities are already boring as hell to use.  

besides i am pretty sure i can run chroma without using his abilities in a mission. whats the incentive of using an elemental swap when the whole kit is boring as hell.

[maddragonmaster]

19 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:

There is the honesty I was looking for. Though (not to be mean but still...) why should DE or anyone else care about YOUR fashion chooses over actual gameplay elements? Design choices are just that 'design choices'. They can increase worth of any element as they see fit though perhaps your actual problem lies in Vex being too powerful even now. Vex puts everyone in a corner because it has equal access across all his forms.

That being said YOU personally don't need to swap elements and can sit in Heat all day if you so choose whether we get the mechanic or not.

thats the point. vex is too powerful and i hate it but i know players will be reluctent of DE even so much as touch the dam ability. and besides fashion is just a nice thing, i actually would rather see chroma be improved on to were he is just specializes on elements rather then generic buffs on elemental ward. i mean seriously just buff his health, sheilds and armor acording while just rework elemental ward into a elemental damage/resistance boost. there no reason for elemental swapping. just  prep at ship and no worry about elemental swapping.

also DE sometimes doesn't know the diffrence between encouraging and enforcing. also if they do implement an elemental swap ability and the kit ends up terrible or some random set of players tries to bicker about my elemental choice  and telling me to switch to this such and such element i am holding you guys responsible 

Edited September 25, 2018 by maddragonmaster

[Korusagi]

Chroma will be reworked.

Next year.

After Nyx, Wukong.....

[trst]

Chroma isn't remotely as bad as people cry about. His only bad ability is his 1 and his 4 is only useless if you have other nuke frames/weapons with you which isn't any different from the majority of warframes.

He's also never going to get his old (broken) calculations for Vex armor; people need to stop hoping that gets reverted.

 

Not saying Chroma is perfect but he is in a Hek of a lot better place than several other frames.

Edited September 25, 2018 by trst

[ColdCremator]

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

God, I am going to get poop for this, but if we are going back to the drawing board does Chroma really need to have such a high damage multiplier. Like, Octavia's ultimate ability only gives 200% damage. Remember, given a rework Chroma should have a full kit and NOT b dependent on just having massive damage. A 200% damage bonus aura is still extremely powerful. And then in combination with the other changes you proposed, especially the bonus status chance with Elemental Alignment, I would argue Chroma would be better at consistently killing. (And please don't say 'but Eidolons', the game should not be balanced around the meta for one very specific boss)

Here's the issue with this: Amp and Vex Armor are additive to damage multipliers such as Serration, Hornet Strike, etc, whereas Rhino's Roar, Nova's MP and Nezha's BC marks are multiplicative after all other calculations. You need a high base damage multiplier to rival a multiplicative at end function, and it requires more unique builds centered around maximizing elemental damage to bring the most out of such a buff. If Vex Armor was made multiplicative like it used to be then it would be much more flexible, but it was nerfed for the very reason of forcing a DPS meta with Eidolons despite both you and I feeling balance around a specific boss is unwise. However, I do understand that he did trivialize the Eidolons back then but since his nerf ended up bringing Rhino and Ivara, of all Warframes, to the spotlight as DPS replacements I don't mind it too much.

 

I do love this rework suggestion. It being 3/4s buff abilities is a tad worrisome; I do like all of their effects immensely, but it doesn't seem all that interactive. Elemental Alignment and Elemental Ward seem like two abilities that could be merged into one. For Effigy, considering its description makes it out as a "massive sentry" yet it really isn't larger than Chroma, would a size increase of 50% to 100% be an option? Also, regarding its sometimes overlooked passive as a credit booster. Will it still be possible to capitalize on that, and can that mechanic be improved further via a range increase, both Chroma and Effigy emitting credit boosting auras/Chroma emitting a resource boosting aura while Effigy boosts credits, etc? I like the mechanic both thematically and in practice but its range is too small to make good use of. I would love to see it improved upon in some way. Aside from that, everything else sounds rather fun for a buff centric kit. Vexing Retaliation sounds so evil and awesome, giving Vex Armor DR is a great move, giving Chroma a way to switch elements on top of buffing elemental damage is cool and changing Effigy from a channel to a durationless, health dependent turret is such a fantastic idea, that alone makes it better for me.

That said, I know almost no one is a true fan of Spectral Scream, myself included, but it would honestly hurt to see it go, as it is one of the most thematic things about Chroma. Instead of scrapping it completely, we could try giving it the Pablo treatment and turn it into a more than viable ability that can serve both as an alternative damage option and a segway into damage buffing and support for himself and his team.

• Give it the beam rework treatment. Currently it being affected by Vex Armor is great, but only dealing 1 tick of damage a second is both slow and not that effective in practice. Reworking it would also improve its status functionality.
• Increase its range and fix its range calculation so it is affected just like literally every other ability. To explain, its cone length is affected by this: 10 × (1 + Ability Range)1/3. Essentially, Range does almost nothing both positively, up to a max of 14.09m and negatively, down to a min of 6.98m. Plus, 10m base length is rather poor for a breath attack although one could argue size being a factor here.
• Allow Spectral Scream, and potentially Effigy, to imbue the ground it spews over with the respective element it is using for 10-15 seconds or so, dealing tick damage and applying status occasionally. It would give Chroma great CC potential, and just imagine setting entire rooms ablaze or turning a huge area into a toxic pit.
• Optional, but give Spectral Scream its own marking ability where enemies hit take additional damage from that element similarly to Ember's Accelerant. Optional because Chroma would already has a lot of damage buffing, from Vex Armor, Elemental Ward/Alignment and Vexing Retaliation if used.

[WutsKraken]

43 minutes ago, Feadship said:

Because easymode isn't what it used to be. (DE discovered some bug when folks found out that Chroma exists and how good he is for Eidolons)

Hah..."bug". Might be a bit transitive of me, but I'm still annoyed they called that a bugfix

He did that much damage and took that little damage for YEARS. Given how much more powerful weapons became since he was released, tuning down his damage was inevitable, I just wish they would've just been honest and called it a nerf and not a "bugfix" and changed his 1 and 4 to compensate to work better with the rest of him

Besides, his tankiness was cut down immensely by his "bugfix" turning him from one of the best tanks to...just an okay one

1 hour ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Why does everyone want a rework for him?

 

1 hour ago, Shiagur said:

does he need to be tweaked?

In terms of function, he's still good. A shadow of his former self for sure, but he's still one of the highest DPS frames in the game while still having the beef to survive diving in headfirst into most enemies, and still one of the strongest endurance runners if you're into that

The problem: His 2 and 3 have great synergy with each other but are his only actually useful abilities. His 1 and 4 are both meme-worthy. Meanwhile we have frames like reworked Nezha, Saryn, and Nidus whose entire kits work beautifully together

Edited September 25, 2018 by WutsKraken

[(XBOX)Kaldwin1571]

Digital extreme.
The whole community knows, and has also said and repeated over and over again, that your works are excellent and very appreciated.
I really appreciate your work and the effort you take to make warframe a better game.
Unfortunately I can not say the same thing for your latest work "Chroma prime"
For a long time the players who use this warframe were waiting for its first version and hoped that an appropriate Rework would arrive with it too.
But obviously not.
It is really a shame that even for the release of its first version you did not give a Rework to one of the most loved warframe of all.
We all understand the reasons behind the nerf insult of about 7 months ago (it has been said so many times that I do not want to repeat it).
So I did not expect an epic rework ... But a generous increase in the armor provided by vex armor definitely.
Now it makes no more sense to play with Chroma the damage bonus is extremely low, but it would have been bearable if accompanied by a high resistance, which is missing from the warframe.
So, from level 45 you already see the weakness of Chroma, so much to think "but why should I use it instead of others?".
I'm not saying to bring everything back to before the nerf, but certainly to restore all its resistance yes, because what has hurt the real Chroma players (not those who hide behind the excuse "you're not building him properly") was the useless and huge nerf to his peculiar ability, the resistance.
The choice of digital extremes is really horrible not to allow this to Chroma because it shows that De does not listen at all to the voice of his community, but continues to churn out new content that, although beautiful, would be better accompanied by good warframe (and not the nidus site or the usual valkyr).
For this it would be appropriate and absolutely welcome a buff in the coming days (although a doubling of the buff damage vex armor would be welcome and would make it perfect, balanced and suitable even at high levels of endgame) of its resistance, so as to report in life the dear little dragon loved by everyone.
I really hope that DE wastes 5 minutes to read this comment and understands my thinking as many other people who would just go back to play with one of the warframes that have made the story of this game, and maybe bring it to even higher levels of 45 without being a ball at the foot for the team.

[ADirtyMonk]

Nice work. Would love to play this version of Chroma. Only minor gripe is that constantly recasting 3 buffs is going to get annoying. It already is on my duration based harrow where all the abilities need to be recast every 1min-1.5min. Wouldnt mind a higher base energy cost for a higher base duration if it meant I would only need to refresh every 2 min or so with ~200% duration.

Edited September 25, 2018 by ADirtyMonk

[ZodiacShinryu]

20 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

i mean seriously just buff his health, sheilds and armor acording while just rework elemental ward into a elemental damage/resistance boost. there no reason for elemental swapping. just  prep at ship and no worry about elemental swapping.

Now that sounds boring heh-heh.

22 minutes ago, maddragonmaster said:

also DE sometimes doesn't know the diffrence between encouraging and enforcing. also if they do implement an elemental swap ability and the kit ends up terrible or some random set of players tries to bicker about my elemental choice  and telling me to switch to this such and such element i am holding you guys responsible 

They don't know the difference because there isn't any. It is perspective of the person speaking at the time no matter where you place a point. First, right now people bicker about the elements. Basically if you are playing higher level content and not on Heat (maybe it isn't something you run into because of your "sick fire dragon theme") you are playing subpar and some people will go out of their way to let you know. In general most people wont care simply because as you say the elemental aspects aren't great or a main attraction. You have DE specialize Chroma's elements THERE WILL BE clear winners and losers (without a swap function) it is unavoidable, and people will let you know. Just an exaggerated extension of what is currently going on. So you should stop caring what a random joe tells you what to do and just show them up because they can't be that great if they feel the need to go out of the way to instruct you on something so trivial. The swap mechanic is, at its basic foundation, there to allow you any flexibility you want.

Secondly, I am usually the pessimistic one but attributing a terrible kit to the swap mechanic is pretty low. But I can play that game too. What if they specialize him and he kit is still terrible and boring? Then I am holding you responsible. See what I did there?

As much as everyone one just wants to boil down my thoughts on the subject to just a simple swap mechanic that is far from the truth even though if I had a choice between nothing and a basic swap I would take the swap without hesitation. Ideally his swap mechanic should be greater than the sum of its parts. A interaction and synergy within his kit that grants an incentive to swap for greater efficacy. I personally see it as a way for Chroma to have access to all the elemental damage type and become a status machine. Crippling and exploiting enemy weakness through damage types and procs.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

His biggest problem is energy. Why be a caster when a tank is so much more flexible? 

Also if anything they should rework elemental ward to be reactive and absorb elemental damage. It'd fix his whole can't change passives mid-game thing. 

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

I am more interested to know what is the story line for his pelt gonna be (as well as are they gonna change the Chroma in his storyline to the Prime version to fight). 

Cuz as it stands, there are 3 Official versions of his pelt....and yet no info on where it came from since it can do it's own thing. If another Frame had the ability to do that, I would say it's the armor...but he is the only one which gives credence that the pelt was it's one creature.

Or so I see it....

Edited September 25, 2018 by (XB1)DShinShoryuken
Forgot the pelt part

[Yatazanami]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

His biggest problem is energy. Why be a caster when a tank is so much more flexible? 

Also if anything they should rework elemental ward to be reactive and absorb elemental damage. It'd fix his whole can't change passives mid-game thing. 

his biggest problem is DE putting no effort on Reworking him when he Finally get his life moment and the attention he needed with the prime access but alas 

the poor thing still just a golden lizard that suck big time .

Edited September 25, 2018 by Yatazanami

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

1 hour ago, NovusNova said:

Not sure why people are so surprised by that, especially when DE said they weren't going to tweak Chroma.

Can you source this? I recall them saying Chroma--along with other frames like Nyx and Trinity--was still on the chopping block for kit changes, after the changes earlier this year. But I could be remembering things out of order.

[Errodin]

A shame??? How is it different from any other Prime release? ... you get a Prime and new weapon variations ... that's it. Unless DE stated that a rework was inbound with this release then i'd file this under the many other Chroma rework complaint threads that exist.

My knowledge of Prime releases isn't strong but have they ever released a rework alongside a Prime release without stating it beforehand?

You can be disappointed that there's been no mention of any works-in-progress but saying they DE dropped the ball with this release is just shallow.

[BiancaRoughfin]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)TRL kaldwin said:

It is really a shame that even for the release of its first version you did not give a Rework to one of the most loved warframe of all.

Being one of "The Most Loved" doenst need he has to be OP/Broken as he was before. If any change should be made, maybe give his 1 more Range and thats about it.