Let's Talk: Content Drought - What DE can learn from this

[hellodownthere]

Okay there isn't a lack of content you're correct, there is however a lack of NEW content.

A content drought is not synonymous with a lack of content and when the devs themselves say that they're in a content drought then no one can say that there isn't 

 

[Acos]

I'm so glad we have another new thread for you all to beat your dead horse off. 

[beercritch]

For my 10p I think DE do very well at adding new quests and story lines. Considering this I think there is plenty of content, and a continual stream of good and rewarding content.

The problem for me lies in the continual need to return to very low level missions to gain some of the new content that is dare I say boring to a well established player. I dont have a good solution for this as I dont run a games company, but maybe one place to look at is when we run one of the supposed higher level content missions (ESO) we dont get a pile of rewards that need masses of low level runs to get the final reward (Lith radiant relics) 

 

Maybe its getting about time that all missions scale on the level of the players in that mission?

[Kimimoto]

4 hours ago, Giveup12 said:

a ton of new content and all you "veterans"

AFAIK they've just made Arbitrations

[LightningsVengance]

Pulls out LifeOfrio videoes

Edited October 10, 2018 by LightningsVengance

[YoshixInfinite]

This is so funny.

[Warlord1400]

1.  You can't complain about complainers (meta-complaining) when their argument is stronger than yours.
2. You cannot go months without offering something new.
3. The developers themselves have acknowledged the content drought.
4. Fortuna is literally Plains 2.0, and it's been months since the last mainline; even if it is new content, it's not new. Now we're left here, waiting for something we've seen before that we're going to burn out on in a few weeks.
5. The argument the veterans and YouTubers make is legitimate. Everyone that's okay with the content drought is simply a casual who doesn't care or think about the vitality of the game. Your response is to play another game (Destiny 2) and slow down, which are bad alternatives to say the least. Anyone can take a break or go to another game, but if the reason is because of a content drought, sirens should be going off.

We're not mad at DE, these are simple facts that mostly everyone can acknowledge: there is a content drought. And it's because of these giant projects that are going lose their hype in a few weeks. We appreciate the attempt, but ...we don't even have a true endgame. Dozens of Warframes and weapons still need tweaking. The infrastructure needs to be dealt with beforehand.

[FlusteredFerret]

5 hours ago, Giveup12 said:

First off, cut DE some damn slack. They have been slaving away working on a ton of new content and all you "veterans" (makes me ashamed to be in the same group as you people (i have nearly 1,300 hrs)) can do is complain and complain when the game has already given you several thousand hours worth of stuff to do and possibly thousands more. You can bet your ass a bit after Fortuna drops they will start picking up on the regular content (which fortuna looks like it will have loads of content). Also developing new story, locales, items and frames takes time to do and isn't an instant thing. These are regular people just trying to do their job and make content they enjoy making and all you can do is blast them to oblivion because "lack of content". Maybe if y'all didn't go as hard as you can to grind everything out in the first day/week of content release and paced yourselves you would actually have more to do. Just think about that 🙂

I hope you all have a wonderful day regardless of your anger.

 

P.s. I love every little thing they add and can't wait for the mainline this week 🙂

Edit: Also the game is far from dying as there are more average players then there ever have been and it's been sitting in the top 6-7 most played games on steam for several months now.

If a moderator has a problem with the thread just delete, move or lock it. Doesn't bother me 🙂

I heartily endorse this post! 

 

What makes me laugh is that there are lots of players that just love to speed-grind through content as fast as they can, who play for hours at a stretch.

2-3 weeks after Fortuna drops, you can bet they will be back on here complaining about lack of content.

[YoshixInfinite]

This is so funny.

For some reason my computer double replied. I guess it thought it was funny too.

Edited October 10, 2018 by YoshixInfinite

[iChiLLa]

When you get your head out, you will see what we see, 1,3k hours veteran (input face palm here). And people should complain and give their opinion, criticisam drive things forward.

[Ryuurik]

Spoiler

11 hours ago, Ryuurik said:

I want to lift on table something, that has been bugging me as long as i have played Warframe. I'm talking about Leaderboards..
You may think, that this is something, that doesn't have anything to do with content drought, but i thing it's just that and big time.

Why?

Because everytime i look at my achievements in leaderboard it looks like this:

image hosting

It's so BORING even thing trying to do new record, because after a week, it will be wiped out. Breaking old records is something, that keeps me and very likely many other enjoying the repeat, that Warframe is so good at.
Lack of this system literally KILLS all the will to try and do the new best shot, because why the hell would anyone do it, if he/she can't feel good about his/her personal records after a short while, because for sure SOON THERE WILL NOT BE ANYTHING ANYMORE?

I get the idea of weekly records, but what i don't get is why there is NO Monthly, Best Of The Year and Best Of All Time?
As a side note: Why the hell there is title "Weekly"? It's like they forgot to add the rest.

IMO, this is something, they should address ASAP, because it should have existed at very beginning of the Warframe game. It's basic, that Warframe has been missing way too long. Making these "lists" would increase friendly competition astonishingly a lot. That's what i believe. (I hope, that this is already with the thing with the K-Drive. But probably.. i shouldn't hope too much of it.)

 

8 hours ago, Nitro747 said:

This have to do with content drought indeed because the biggest reason why players are feeling the drought is that DE stopped releasing "what keeps the game moving" AKA new frames, guns, etc and now we are left with the rest of the game. And little by little players are realizing how there is a MOUNTAIN of unfinished content. Things that they released in pre-alpha state and NEVER touched again. Things that really don't matter. And that's one of the biggest complaints that is being made in all these "content drought" threads: DE keeps pouring content like crazy (not anymore lol) but they never decided to polish whatever they have already released, making said content become dead and a literal joke inside the game.

Think about it, we could be playing clan vs clan Lunaro tournments, we could be doing actually decent Archwing missions, we could be fighting on clan wars, we could be fighting on PVP, we could have had a brazilion of bug fixes that makes some stuff literally unplayable, we could have more modern maps (some maps are still as old as 2013), we could be playing actually different missions in each planet instead of every capture mission playing literally the same way we play since Earth node 1. But nope, here we all are, stuck speedruning the same void fissure missions to farm, I dont know, ducats, hoping Baro will bring something nice, or just playing sorties and then logging out. What DE prefers to do instead is discharging more and more content that we will never touch again and they will never care about after its release. Greatest examples of recently: 1- Kuva Fortress, a gigantic, complex and beautiful tileset that has ZERO reasons for any players to go there; it took them 2 years to realize that earning Kuva in the KUVA Fortress would make sense so what they do instead is a rehashed version of a survival mission. 2- Iron Wake. It is just that Steel Meridian room we all find inside every relay ever, except it looks cool; but the ONLY use you ever get for that is to talk to an NPC once or twice and that's it. They spent hours, days making that place, adding detail... for it to be thrown away.

After thinking over night, and reading your post i think I might actually have hit very core of the Content drought, because lack of Leaderboards concerns every single planet and node. Also PVP and Lunaro would surely be positively affected by this fix, if it's done.

Maybe just fixing Leaderboards to as it should be could really bring some life even to deflection missions? No-one can tell, before it's done, but one thing is for sure, and that is that fixing  this would definitely make it better, not worse, because this is very core of any content, because it would instantly boost the fun everywhere.

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Ryuurik

[(PSN)robotwars7]

7 hours ago, taiiat said:

there's your counter counter counter post/discussion.

I think if this rabbit hole to do with content drought goes any deeper, you can pull out your cutter and start mining, we'll be hitting ore soon. xD

personally I find it fascinating how there's absolutely no middle-ground in this matter. apparently if you take part in this whole thing you're either branded a salty, entitled veteran that wants everything now, or you're a white-knight for DE that never disagrees with them. poor mods must have their work cut out.

 

[FlusteredFerret]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

I think if this rabbit hole to do with content drought goes any deeper, you can pull out your cutter and start mining, we'll be hitting ore soon. xD

personally I find it fascinating how there's absolutely no middle-ground in this matter. apparently if you take part in this whole thing you're either branded a salty, entitled veteran that wants everything now, or you're a white-knight for DE that never disagrees with them. poor mods must have their work cut out.

 

Lol. The mods look to be keeping their distance. At least I've not seen much in the way of thread locks, so far.

For my part I've tried to make my position clear. Games can always be added to and improved...but demanding the devs work faster AND add MORE new stuff, while we're waiting, trying to tell DE how to run their business...while also blaming the community etc. is just idiotic.

 

[MickThejaguar]

1 minute ago, FlusteredFerret said:

For my part I've tried to make my position clear. Games can always be added to and improved...but demanding the devs work faster AND add MORE new stuff

You're grossly misrepresenting the opposing side. Nobody is demanding that DE work faster. The actual argument is that waiting majority of the year with few (if any) major updates just for new content is largely unreasonable. If having things like Fortuna means sacrificing the rest of the year's content then some people would just not have it, especially when there are plenty of other things that need fine tuning and fixing. 

10 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

trying to tell DE how to run their business

Contrary to what you might think, consumers do have a say in how businesses are run. It's not a situation of "I'm in charge of this business so you peasants will accept what I give you". If someone is running a business using shady or poor business practices that upset their consumers then it can cause their brand harm. And people are well within their right to voice their opinions on the game that they're giving their time and money to.

15 minutes ago, FlusteredFerret said:

while also blaming the community

I believe you're referring to LifeOfRio and and TheReaperHunter's videos on the matter. The point that they were making was that a certain part of the community does have a tendency to ignore any and all problems with Warframe. And they aren't wrong. Every community ever has blind fanboys who will blatantly disregard any flaws or shortcomings. It's hard to get your points across to DE when a vocal minority insists that everything is fine.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

8 hours ago, Ksaero said:

Meta-complaints are not looked kindly upon.

Simply dismissing valid criticism of the way certain groups of people have been acting as a "meta complaint on no" should not be looked kindly upon.

Also: complaining about meta complaints is a complaint about the meta. Change my mind.

[BETAOPTICS]

9 hours ago, Giveup12 said:

First off, cut DE some damn slack. They have been slaving away working on a ton of new content and all you "veterans" (makes me ashamed to be in the same group as you people (i have nearly 1,300 hrs)) can do is complain and complain when the game has already given you several thousand hours worth of stuff to do and possibly thousands more. You can bet your ass a bit after Fortuna drops they will start picking up on the regular content (which fortuna looks like it will have loads of content). Also developing new story, locales, items and frames takes time to do and isn't an instant thing. These are regular people just trying to do their job and make content they enjoy making and all you can do is blast them to oblivion because "lack of content". Maybe if y'all didn't go as hard as you can to grind everything out in the first day/week of content release and paced yourselves you would actually have more to do. Just think about that 🙂

I hope you all have a wonderful day regardless of your anger.

 

P.s. I love every little thing they add and can't wait for the mainline this week 🙂

Edit: Also the game is far from dying as there are more average players then there ever have been and it's been sitting in the top 6-7 most played games on steam for several months now.

If a moderator has a problem with the thread just delete, move or lock it. Doesn't bother me 🙂

I recommend checking out Life of Rio -video for good discourse and response to this. Granted I personally do not complain because me personally I am more in the same boat as you are in terms of perspective on the content drought as it is called. It helps that I am currently busy studying Software Engineering so I don't have much free time anyway. 

In any case I do think that Life of Rio brings forward many good points of discussion. Steve mentioned that they meant to release Fortuna almost 3 months ago and their ambitions + expectations set upon the community over time has made them add in more content to the big update. As it is clear however, the current development cycle is not good for the game because the older players are not participating for obvious reasons (little to do), casual players come for the big changes and new players play regularly still.

Overall in the Steam charts (albeit a decently reliable metric) shows that the game is not doing well. In the past the climb has been upwards in terms of player participation in raw numbers and for the first time in 5-years the numbers are going down, not up. Steve and the rest do know this and I am sure they are well stressed to see their precious baby be in this situation. Nobody wants that. Not the players, and certainly not DE. And because of that, as well as knowing how difficult software developing can be, I feel empathetic and will not ' complain '.

But I do not think it helps to disregard these factors because it can help give data on the direction Warframe is growing. Warframe needs to grow as a contextual medium, and by that I mean that the developers need to find a healthier balance for their development cycles. I cheer for their clear growth as developers and development skill. But I fear that sometimes DE's ambitions, aspirations and inspirations make them want to tackle big goals, which they can do no doubt but not always for the games development cycle health.

I am not sure was it OriginalWickedFun or DKDiamantes but one of the two (if I recall correctly) mentioned perhaps and yet the most productive, insightful and relevant point to the whole topic of discourse. One of them said that DE should consider hiring new staff if possible to meet the growing ambitions, quality and goals they have for the games future. In my humble opinion I'd be inclined to agree. Though of course it isn't that simple, it is entirely a question of whether or not they can find more employees with their current budget, and perhaps recent developments of declining player participation (and investment into the game) has been tough for their company as well. All is not lost however, the game still has retained 60% of its playerbase, nearly 80 000 active players and as you say it is 7th currently (was 2nd) on the charts and that is not bad number either. But DE should reconsider how they might be able to re-orient and adjust themselves a bit more.

[Oreades]

Feedback is important, be it supporting or detracting(?). 

It's really up to the developers what they take into consideration. 

Personally I feel that the current release cycle isn't healthy and we certainly could have done with some more "meaty" content during the wait for Fortuna. However at the same time the people ignoring the content we've received are doing so because it hasn't been "meaty" content. Which is somewhat ironic to a degree because while they blame Fortuna for the drought, ultimately the kind of content that they crave is content like Fortuna. Content that is going to take them a while to digest and "meaty" content takes a lot of focus. 

I keep crossing my fingers that their process for openworld content will effectively be cemented in place by the time they release Fortuna. So the next open world won't take nearly as much attention and that will free them to have other more "meaty" releases during the interim of the next big open world cycle. Cause I don't think the Open worlds are going anywhere so it's more of a matter of finding an equilibrium. 

 

39 minutes ago, BETAOPTICS said:

I recommend checking out Life of Rio -video for good discourse and response to this.

Did he release another video that isn't him saying "There's no content" over and over for 30 minutes? Cause if you're talking about that video it really didn't strike me as "good discourse". More like a few half decent points buried in a rant video. I mean I can appreciate the passion but IMHO it really didn't stick to the problems it just kinda went off in a direction. 

I'd recommend checking out practically any other Warframe Partner content drought video. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Oreades

[BETAOPTICS]

12 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Did he release another video that isn't him saying "There's no content" over and over for 30 minutes? Cause if you're talking about that video it really didn't strike me as "good discourse". More like a few half decent points buried in a rant video. I mean I can appreciate the passion but IMHO it really didn't stick to the problems it just kinda went off in a direction. 

I'd recommend checking out practically any other Warframe Partner content drought video. 

It wasn't formally structured but I do not think it has to be either for it to have some key take-away's. It is both easy and lazy to dismiss a point of view because it is found inconvenient rather than trying to address the actual points and try to find productive solutions, and that is perhaps the most important point of his ramble as you so describe it. Granted there would be a lot I would do or format differently in both the video structure and expressed viewpoints, but I do not mind a more down-to-earth not-so-serious-all-the-time styles either if they have a point. Then again I'm ringing my cowbell bias here, I am a persistent listener and researcher so I am used to taking in a lot of data and finding relevance when and where I need to.

Edited October 10, 2018 by BETAOPTICS

[Xaero]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Simply dismissing valid criticism of the way certain groups of people have been acting as a "meta complaint on no" should not be looked kindly upon.

Such criticism is ok in form of comments in complaint threads, but there's no need to create a whole new topic about it.

2 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Also: complaining about meta complaints is a complaint about the meta. Change my mind.

Why would I? I agree with this statement.

[(XBOX)Dex Xean]

I usually see them on forums but I expect that from most forum threads people usually discuss gripes they have on forums. In almost any games I played that has a online RPG feel to it forums are usually the go to for complainers of either side of a debate.

Edited October 10, 2018 by (XB1)Dex Xean

[Marvelous_A]

Who would have thought meta-complaint is a viable solution to a problem as demonstrated by thousands of other threads? /s

Interesting how hard you are trying to persuade us how you don't care about our thoughts.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[(XBOX)RogueTenno]

Hi Tenno, before I begin I would like to thank you for reading and also apologize for the harsh reality check soon to follow.

First off I would like to condemn our Warframe "partners" for ever thinking or believing that we care or even appreciate their opinions. The positions you hold are or at least should be akin to that of a journalist. Meaning, that your position Demands a certain responsibility from you to provide us with facts and truths. We can all form our own opinions we don't need you to give us yours and I don't believe for one second that's what your position was created for. I completely understand that you feel a necessity to state that everything is just an opinion to avoid backlash from the community but if you were not able to do the research to actually dig up the real facts you really don't have any place making videos. 

Now before I continue I would like to say that there are some exceptions here but by a large majority most of our partners, most of the time don't have a clue what they're talking about. 

Now if you're really so concerned with the content drought and really want to keep saying that there's nothing left for you to do in Warframe I'd like for you to prove that you have 10 of every Arcane that the game has to offer I'm talking about the ones for the zaws the ones for the operators and the ones for the amps I'd also like for you to prove that you have  every Focus school completely maxed out then I want to see your pay stubs showing that you also worked at 40 hour a week job because if you didn't then the problem doesn't lie with the rate at which de is producing content the problem lies with the fact that you have no life and have nothing to do but play the game, that is not how it was intended to be consumed.

Now on that same note I would like to explain to you that for a very long time Warframe continued to produce and produce and produce extremely small updates at a very rapid rate and what did we get, updates with very little value or actual content now that de has amassed a large enough game to keep players occupied they've decided to start slowing down and producing much larger updates providing a grandiose amount of content. How is this not ideal explain to me how this is not the best way that they could have handled the situation those arguing the fact can't because there is no valid argument. 

Another beef that I have with the subject is the fact that you all act like you understand the political economical and chronological aspects what it takes to make a videogame. You're not going to talk about how that doctor took too long to perform surgery because you don't know what you're talking about so why are you going to speak on this regard? Speaking out of ignorance is absolutely what you all do best!

Now on a different note along with your complaints about the content drought you have also been complaining about the toxicity of the community I'm not really sure what planet you're all from but the bottom line is communitys suck because a vast majority of people suck that's just how it is you can't have a large group of people without a large amount of suck! What is d e really supposed to do about this issue you think they should be selective about who gets to play their game that's absurd stop complaining about something nobody can control.

I just really wonder who on Earth can complain about a community that they are apart of because their members are so loyal that's a plus in my opinion.

[mikakor]

This opinion also look like an entire bashing thread. But hey, opinion, right?

[Oreades]

58 minutes ago, BETAOPTICS said:

It wasn't formally structured but I do not think it has to be either for it to have some key take-away's. It is both easy and lazy to dismiss a point of view because it is found inconvenient rather than trying to address the actual points and try to find productive solutions, and that is perhaps the most important point of his ramble as you so describe it. Granted there would be a lot I would do or format differently in both the video structure and expressed viewpoints, but I do not mind a more down-to-earth not-so-serious-all-the-time styles either if they have a point. Then again I'm ringing my cowbell bias here, I am a persistent listener and researcher so I am used to taking in a lot of data and finding relevance when and where I need to.

Since the point of view is shared by other people, it isn't exactly dismissive of the point of view. Lazy maybe but why fight an uphill battle for the functionally the same point of view presented in a more direct and probably less hyperbolic manner. Now one could possibly argue that where I see hyperbole that others will see passion but IMHO neither of those is something you really want to dump people into out of the gate. I know at least I would appreciate being dumped into content that is more measured.

And yeah I hunkered down and watched his video some time ago after it had been presented in another thread.... not IMHO the best video if you want to get people starting a discussion on the "right" foot. Plus given the average times of the content doubt videos being at the 7~10min mark, I'd honestly advise watching three other videos over the the same ~30minute period and then if people still feel up to watching more Warframe Partners takes on the same subject then by all means go for it. 

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

Dang that was savage lol.

You get an upvote from me for telling it like it is, but I fully expect this thing to get locked since you called out and bashed players. 

A good read otherwise.