[PC] C̶̹̃h̴̊̍̐͜i̶͓̩͛̽m̸̨̈́͘e̴̤̒ŕ̸͉͋̕å̸̙̭͕: Update 23.10 - Arbitrations: Lethal Alerts Feedback Megathread

[Leoffta]

Ok, if you die in middle of rounds of interception and defense missions, you not gain reward for keep until the extraction time, but if you dies in middle of survival rotation you gain reward if you keep until the next rotation...

Why this design? You incentives people quit the mission without waiting the others (and gives a host migration who can give a insta-failure to others who still are alive) in defense and interception mode but incentives to keep in survival missions... This not makes sense...

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

They were only boring because you could never fail them and just afk your way to victory with the right setup. Repeating the same missions and oneshotting weak enemies just for grind of course gets incredibly boring. But i wouldn't say the game modes themself are the problem.

I did a run yesterday and while i couldnt oneshot enemies (i use dot dependant killing methods) the gamemode was still a boring slog.

2 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

only" he says... I've seen enough so far that highly disagrees with your statement. How much and how long have you tried these? And if very successful, you can't tell me you played as lazy and cheap as you usually do in your average warframe content with practically infinite revives. Drones alone counter lots of cheese and ability spam. You need to pick those out before you're able to deal with the actual threats. And one sudden mistake can end your run.

And as someone who has also spent over 5 years in warframe, i can say that i've never experienced such an awesome combat in warframe yet. Death to afk gameplay and finally a need to use parkour to it's fullest.

I do agree though that the rewards are kinda lacking and that it'd be better to keep the rotations every 5 minutes/each round instead of double but let enemies scale faster. At the current moment, they scale at a snails pace, which makes for enduring instead of very tough runs for which not everyone has the time to stay half an hour to reach rotation c.

One of our teammate has died because he was soo bored he started to watch videos on youtube. I myself hopped on the wall to a safe spot and made a tea while the mirage obliterated everything what was supposed to be challanging.

At level 100 (somewhere around the 30 minute mark) we just quit because we couldnt endure the boredom any longer.

The drones add literally no challange to the gamemode as people just use the self-buffers and tanks instead of casters what already hardly limits our fun. Taking them out is nothing extra, they are just moving target marks. I gotta say i have seen more action and fun in hyeracon after the hour mark than what i got here. I dare to say that this is the lamest combat based update added ingame yet.

 

[Hecking_Birb]

Please, for the love of god, make defense not always take longer than survival due to the spawn rate and enemy run speed

that is all, have an good day

[Drachnyn]

I agree. Defense seems like the slowest mode and just not worth doing in arbitrations.

[Tora.Prime]

And sometimes enemies get stuck in the spawn making it slower

[Amhiel]

Yeah, defense needs some work, the ones I've done have taken 50-75 percent more time than survival. The combination of babysitting the operative (which isn't the most popular thing in the game to be doing for way longer) and searching for the drones and enemies stuck and hidden takes a good chunk of the fun away. Interception on the other hand seems to be the fastest if the team works together well and has all nodes under control. 

[GnarlsDarkley]

17 minutes ago, Amhiel said:

Interception on the other hand seems to be the fastest

Haven't done enough of them yet and didn't pay attention how long it took me...but I think 2 Excavators are 6 minutes + traveltime and may be even slighty faster

[MystMan]

Timezones seem to matter quite a lot here.

I have yet to see defection and salvage alerts. I have seen and done Excavation only once and I hated it.  I heard people say it was the fastest but apparently you need to have a good map for that to happen in.  Mine was Corpus in Europa tile set.   Broken spawn zones all over!  And I was playing solo. During excavator 3 there were no more power carriers showing up and later no enemies at all.  I just stood there occasionally killing the lone 2 enemies that would sporadically show up.  After 20-ish minutes I just got out of there, it was unbearable just standing there doing nothing.

In the meantime, defense/interception/survival is all I get.  

[Kobrakai]

Reduce length of waves by 50% so it's less boring.
Increase enemy levels by 50% so it's more difficult.
Allow revives so we aren't forced to play boring tank frames.
Add kuva to the drop table.

[chinhnguyen]

they won't. if this mode not fun, they won't do it.

[Radagosh]

All in all, I like the idea behind these new alerts just like I liked the idea behind ESO. They are Interesting game modes designed to challenge veterans but sadly don't deliver on that promise, either in challenge, rewards or both.

I have to agree with OP, the "elite alerts" are far too easy. I love the idea of higher lvl scaling and more spawns. I went for 60minutes in a survival arbitration in the void (nostalgia reasons) and enemies hit lvl 150, that's a joke, the hardest part being the spotting of enemies to desecrate. I want a challenge and I want to be rewarded appropriately.

On the note of challenge, I disagree with OP's notion about bleed out time. You die and that's it I love that about these alerts. However, his idea of people coming back after the reward screen sounds amazing. His other point on the duration of rotations and duration of waves is something I also don't mind too much, especially with the C-Rotation going on forever.

My biggest problem is the rewards. It's a glorified Endo farm nothing more nothing less. I have 250k pure Endo probably another 400k in duplicate mods and another 100-500k in sculptures, this is not something veterans need! The only sink Warframe has is Kuva, so why is it so hard for DE to add it to endgame content's reward tables. (And I don't believe the balance of a free market is an argument against that)

 

Tl;dr

Cool mode, some annoyances but for the love of God replace the (for veterans) useless Endo rewards with something useful like Kuva, Forma, Riven Mods, Arcanes.

[Zi-Sui]

On 2018-10-14 at 6:34 AM, ReshyShira said:

It also causes a massive issue of causing people to quit the game when they die.   Not to mention, with how easy the game mode is currently you're not likely to die except by accident because you got bored.

 

Also if you're dying that much, you're probably risking the defense objective being destroyed, running out of life support, or losing the interception.

So you're saying the majority of players don't die before 20 minutes in survival and I just happened to stumble upon people who did so? Maybe they discovered that Trinity/Oberon is meta and everyone's doing that after a day or two, wouldn't be surprising when you look at ESO, but I have my doubts.

[Kobrakai]

1 hour ago, ZeroMR said:

No revives in arbitrations! "I am bored with those low lvl eneies - yet I want to have unlimited revives". If there is no challange, why are you dieing then? People are addicted to convivnience and have 0 skill. Let your frames with 90% damage reduction or invulnerability in the arsenal and do those alelrts with something else than rhino.

Scrubs.

You assume I'm the one dying but maybe I'm sick of everybody else on my team dying?

No revives doesn't make it harder, it just makes it more punishing when you do die. Eventually everyone makes a mistake and dies which is frustrating so they take tank frames to eliminate this possibility.

[Waterbeacon]

So I'm just going to hop right Into it, reduce the amount of time for rewards back to the base, everything else is hard enough, you can lower the recourse rewards (Endo) a tiny bit to compenate, also change the rotation to AABBCCCCCC (infinite c) so you would be getting the same tier rewards, just more often. Add Kuva rewards, rotation A 500, B 1000, C 1500. Also within rotation C have these be rare drops, Built Forma, Orokin Catalys/Reactor BP, any veiled riven mod and all arcanes. (bare with me) the forma and catalyst are not that great if you are in endgame but they are still a nice thing to have. The riven mods would give a great insentive to come back (either to make plat or to get a good mod) this would also lower the market prices seeing as they would be so common. With the arcanes it is simply an alternative if you don't like doing Eidolon hunts. 

[Synpai]

There's a megathread for this feedback

[BlazeDeval]

5 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I did a run yesterday and while i couldnt oneshot enemies (i use dot dependant killing methods) the gamemode was still a boring slog.

One of our teammate has died because he was soo bored he started to watch videos on youtube. I myself hopped on the wall to a safe spot and made a tea while the mirage obliterated everything what was supposed to be challanging.

At level 100 (somewhere around the 30 minute mark) we just quit because we couldnt endure the boredom any longer.

The drones add literally no challange to the gamemode as people just use the self-buffers and tanks instead of casters what already hardly limits our fun. Taking them out is nothing extra, they are just moving target marks. I gotta say i have seen more action and fun in hyeracon after the hour mark than what i got here. I dare to say that this is the lamest combat based update added ingame yet.

 

Yeah, most people I've played with wanted to go until we died, but by 20-30 minutes, they got bored and started killing themselves.

Now this hurts me to say, but I'd rather play defection.

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Waterbeacon said:

Add Kuva rewards, rotation A 500, B 1000, C 1500

That seems like too much kuva...

53 minutes ago, Waterbeacon said:

Also within rotation C have these be rare drops, Built Forma, Orokin Catalys/Reactor BP, any veiled riven mod and all arcanes

Built forma - Sounds fine, depending on the drop %.
Potatoes - Sounds fine, heavily depending on the drop %.
Rivens - As much as I love rivens, I think this could cause issues with the database. So, no.
Arcanes - I'm all in on an alternate method to grind arcanes, but I don't think arbitrations is the right place for it.

58 minutes ago, Waterbeacon said:

the forma and catalyst are not that great if you are in endgame but they are still a nice thing to have

To take part in Arbitration alerts, you just need to complete the starchart, which isn't exactly an endgame activity on its own. So, these would actually be great to someone who just finished unlocking all planets and is still exploring the game.

1 hour ago, Waterbeacon said:

The riven mods would give a great insentive to come back (either to make plat or to get a good mod) this would also lower the market prices seeing as they would be so common.

We already have sorties and rare alerts for rivens, adding another source of them seems mostly bad, because the alert refreshes every hour and you can just keep going on the same mission for as long as you would like/can.

And market prices can only be fixed by the playerbase. More rivens don't necessarily means lower price, because kuva grinding is a pain, and getting a good/god roll is even worse, because it takes an indefinite amount of time. Spending hours to roll a riven 10 times and not getting any good roll is/feels like a tremendous waste of time and effort. If you spent that time doing anything else, anywhere else, you'd be at the exact same place with that riven. Many players don't like that. That's part of the reason some rivens are overpriced. It's because you're skipping hours, days, weeks of grind. The other part is just people willing to pay said price.

[Fallen_Echo]

33 minutes ago, BlazeDeval said:

but I'd rather play defection.

I burned myself out on that mode when i tried to attempt to get ignis wraith for my clan to the level that even reading the mission name leaves a bad taste in my mouth and YET the new mode is soo boring i rather play that.

[Unknown924]

One of the things I really like about Arbitrations is the idea of encouraging players to alternate the Warframes and weapons used by buffing them.  Unfortunately, this idea does not work well in practice because it gets shut down by the Arbitration drones.  Since powers don't work on protected enemies, players need to be able to endure their attacks until all nearby drones are destroyed.  This results in player preferring heavily defensive Warframes regardless of what frame they got a buff for.  This is further amplified by the instant death Arbitrations have.

However, if the buffed Warframe and weapon could ignore the Arbitration drone protection effects on enemies then players would be encouraged to use them without having to worry about getting shutdown.  This would greatly help in the goal of encouraging players to alternate Warframes and weapons since they would always be viable for that mission.  It would also help frames that get little or no bonus from the power strength buff in the first place, such as Loki.  I think that it could result in making players remember individual Arbitrations - instead of every Arbitration being very similar, it becomes stuff like "that Arbitration I got Atlas was so awesome," or "we managed to get an amazing team combo."

While balance may be a concern, I think the goals of making Arbitrations more interesting and encouraging players to swap between Warframes and weapons instead of just using the same build almost every time are more important.  Especially for the long term success of Arbitrations.

[BiancaRoughfin]

"Allow the buffed Warframes and weapons to Ignore Arbitration drone protections."

NO...

Its already very easy to take down the Drones and most of the times when they die they often take the mobs they were protecting along. Get a good AoE weapon like the Staticor!

[Xardis]

Maybe not ignore but get -50% reduction rather than -100% like it it now. And one more thing, GIVE US KUVA IN THERE DE!

[BeeWhyOhBee]

err.. im gonna have to disagree. The game mode is fine. That annoying drone SHOULD be more agile and hard to kill, in a sense that you have to look for it, because 'i want more challenge'  -- but that's me 

[DarkRuler2500]

I will state one example to show how bad this idea is: Saryn.
I'll elaborate this to ANY area of effect damage-dealer.

[spyvspyaeon]

37 minutes ago, Unknown924 said:

One of the things I really like about Arbitrations is the idea of encouraging players to alternate the Warframes and weapons used by buffing them. 

this is a top option by DE. I aprove 100%. Love that. I don't think any change is necessary to take the drones down. IE: you can destroy them with the tenno or with a Melee, pretty easy. So easy that a change would make this new mission a meh.

So Far the best farming for Endos, top!!! loving it.

[mikakor]

3 hours ago, Radagosh said:

Cool mode, some annoyances but for the love of God replace the (for veterans) useless Endo rewards with something useful like Kuva, Forma, Riven Mods, Arcanes.

For the love of God could people stop saying that Endo is useless? I am far in the game , yet I only have 3 or 4 primed mod maxed out, so these rewards are perfect for me, except that the ayatan should come pre-filled.