Garuda Feedback and Discussion

[Biosko]

Garudas 4 sounds really boring. Just like Revenants 4. Turn on -> enemies take damage like you had a kill aura.

If you want gore..why not make it an animation:

Turn on

     - everything gets slomo for everyone

      -repeat while duration is active: ( aim at an enemy -> slashdash an enemy into pieces while blood splatters in red clouds around you distracting nearby enemies (aka .5 sec stun))

    and the ability has a limited duration (under 10 seconds).

 

That would feel like gore.

DE doesnt want 'press one button to win'? Well I got a solution for you.

I´d like feedback.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Biosko
Was hard to read because of text size.

[--Sovereign--]

After watching the Devstream I was left with mixed feelings about Garuda. Honestly, the name doesn't fit her, and the abilities are a bit... underwhelming. She looks amazing tho! But good looks don't make a good frame sadly.

Passive : A blood gauge that fills the more executions Garuda makes with her 1st ability. When filled, Garuda's next ability gets enhanced.
 

1st Ability :  a) Keep the animation and leap, speed it up, have the shield be a 360 degrees blood shield (blood flowing around her, use the fancy particle system!), remove the whole blob thingy.
                   b) Same as A but instead of a blood shield, make it so that repeated casts drain health/casting drains health. If empowered, instead of a target only ability it becomes a huge AoE slash who cuts enemies in half (this will tie in with her 'new' 2nd ability and passive).
 

2nd Ability : a) Make it cast-able from a distance, have it be a continuous siphon (think Nidus's link, duration based).
                   b) Make it an AoE ability as her current 4, to siphon health from enemies surrounding her. When enhanced, bigger AoE and more HP/s

3rd Ability : a) Make it a toggle that just drains health for her current passive, instead of a % half hp.
                   b) Activating it buffs her weapons (Saryn's 3rd) with additional chances of slash procs, if enhanced, makes her immune to CC/Status procs (duration based).

4th Ability : a) Give the current ultimate more speed, bigger pull aoe, and have her walk/waltz instead of floating.
                  b) Activating it makes Garuda exalted. With sheathed weapons, she uses her talons as a throwable weapons (based on talons / based on a specific number of talons - can't be enhanced)

There are plenty ideas floating around which are definitely better than mine but that's just my two cents... She needs some love

Edited October 20, 2018 by --Sovereign--
oops

[GPrime96]

9 minutes ago, Biosko said:

Garudas 4 sounds really boring. Just like Revenants 4. Turn on -> enemies take damage like you had a kill aura.

If you want gore..why not make it an animation:

Turn on

     - everything gets slomo for everyone

      -repeat while duration is active: ( aim at an enemy -> slashdash an enemy into pieces while blood splatters in red clouds around you distracting nearby enemies (aka .5 sec stun))

    and the ability has a limited duration (under 10 seconds).

 

That would feel like gore.

DE doesnt want 'press one button to win'? Well I got a solution for you.

I´d like feedback.

So a Gore version of a strength heavy Molecular Prime?

[WarBaby2]

Hehe, let's face it, at this point, almost everything has been done as far abilities go...

[peterc3]

22 minutes ago, Biosko said:

     - everything gets slomo for everyone

 

No. No. Let me check my notes, 1 sec... yeah it's just nononono.

[Birdframe_Prime]

This is going to get dropped into the Megathread soon, but still. We have, at best, only a few weeks to wait. Wait. And. See.

[Thaelyn2]

I haven’t read all 15 pages of this thread, so I may be just repeating what other folks have said here. 

 

I watched her the video of the stream after getting home from work and there were only two things that stood out to me. Garuda’s game play just did not look fluid at all. The flow of combat is, in my (oft questionable) opinion a large part of what makes Warframe what it is. Garuda in combat just didn’t appear to flow so much as jerk around from point to point with her lunging eviscerations only to be sudden jerked back like a dog on a chain when she has to remain in range of her healing font.  The only ability that appeared fluid or even remotely graceful was her ult. It is very reminiscent of Revenant’s pirouette of death, but has potential. 

 

The second thing that that stood out will probably make me an outlier, but the whole “gore” thing just looked cheesy and forced with the blood splatter on the frame. I think “gore frame” could be conveyed in a less ham fisted and more mechanically interesting way. For example, her eviscerating attack, when it kills a fleshy enemy could (instead of simply spraying Garuda with blood that fades 2 seconds later) leave a blood pool on the floor that causes enemies who step in it to be knocked down (think slipping in a pool of blood). For robotics said “pool” could leave an oil slick with the same effect or, alternatively, a short lived hazard with a guaranteed electric proc. I just think DE can convey gore without such a beautifully designed frame being completely hidden by viscera. Blood splatter on the Garuda is fine, hiding the frame with it is just ham fisted. 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Thaelyn2

[(PSN)teacup775]

Instead of an orb (which feels like a copy paste of mirage), why not a (leap to slam style ending with a) miasma ability animation? It’s more slashy style wise.

[GPrime96]

15 minutes ago, WarBaby2 said:

Hehe, let's face it, at this point, almost everything has been done as far abilities go...

Pretty much. With the amount of Frames we have, it's next to impossible to make a ability do something different without making it too similar to another Frame ability.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

41 minutes ago, VPrime96 said:

 A Ability that cost 20 Energy/Sec too.

Yeah, that part sucks.

[Autongnosis]

il y a 2 minutes, VPrime96 a dit :

Pretty much. With the amount of Frames we have, it's next to impossible to make a ability do something different without making it too similar to another Frame ability.

Ye but Revenant ult is boring. To be honest is not about being similar to another frame for me, it's about fire and forget damage auras being incredibly boring in general :[

[(PSN)teacup775]

I’d rather her 4 be a singularity with explosive lash on enemies, kinda like maim. while held it gathers damage and has a limit on how long it gathers. more enemies more damage maybe syn with stored 1 damage. no walkies with it.  make the anim closer to hydriods 4 (to summon her vortex) ending with a spin with claws or explosion of slashing spikes.

mix it in the a change to her 1 (posted in a different thread) i think the two would make nice dramatic and active mix.

She’d do cc by gutting an enemies, attacking with weapons, leaping and slashing a group, and anything left vccumed and slashed to death. rinse repeat. quick use of 1 is for mobility. longer use to trash larger mobs.

Edited October 20, 2018 by (PS4)teacup775

[(PSN)AGENTE-809]

Garuda's 4th skills looks and will feel boring. It's just a mix of Revenant's dance and Nyx's bubble(BORING!). It feels like if you guys ran out of ideas when making her 4th ability honestly. I'm pretty sure plenty of people don't like her 4th already and she is not even out. There are plenty of ideas for Garuda's 4th. I suggest making her 4th like spawning lots of spikes in a big area, crushing and stabbing the enemies around her in a 360 angle, with Slash procs and/or reducing enemies armor. Perhaps with some % of dropping health orbs on kills with her 4th.

Oh and her 1st needs a 2-3 seconds of invincibility, like Atlas's 1st.

Take your time and revise Garuda because she definitely need some revision.

             👇

(       Sign here        ) 👈 if you agree, or even if you disagree.

             ☝️

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Is that suposed to be a link?

[Frost_King]

Normally I don't get out much but after the devstream I had some ideas about Garuda.  In all honesty, I like her kit and feel, my only complaint is, there is little to no synergy between her ability's, when there is such an obvious method of Synergy with her.  The blood orb from her first ability.  I think it should be used and applied to the rest of her kit, by simply using an 'active' and 'inactive' stance for the orb, where Active is the shield, and inactive is the non-shield

--------------

1- Same thing leap and claws the enemy giving an immediate active shield that absorbs damage, absorbed damage is stored in the blood orb and grows with more damage absorbed.

Press 1 with inactive blood orb - Will re-open an inactive blood orb to deploy the shield again allowing for higher numbers and more damage to be stored.

Hold 1 - Throws the blood orb as seen in the devstream.

 

2 - Same blood spire ability to heal Garuda

Holding 2 with an Inactive Blood orb - Consumes the orb and increases the range and also heals party members for a percentage based on stored damage in the orb at the time of consumption.

 

3 - Same as in devstream

Hold 3 with an inactive blood orb - Allows you to sacrfice the blood orb in lue of your own health with half of the damage absorbed numbers being considered health, also gives a minor strength increase based on amount sacrificed based on duration.

 

4 - Almost same as in Devstream, I would recommend allowing Gaurda to target and 'harpoon' enemies via mouse button attack to drag them into her blender attack, giving the player more interaction with the ability rather than a 'sit and forget' sort of ability.

Hold 4 with inactive blood orb - Empowers the close up blades, lessens the energy drain per second and gives Garuda a very small percentage of life steal, also does an AoE harpoon on launch to drag in small clusters of enemies. (Maybe also slows her movement or stops her for the trade off in power)

 

Using 1 on a spired enemy - Ends the blood spire effects and healing and deploys an active blood orb that has the remaining health of the spired enemy x2 already stored and offers a minor life steal as long as the blood orb remains active.

Using 3 with an active bloodshield further turns the shield into a bubble up to two times for a full 360 degree bubble, but offers less than full immunity stopping a percentage of the full damage from reaching you, the blood orb still absorbs 100% of what would have been prevented. (more risk/reward synergy.)

While 4 is active with no blood orb active, pressing 1 will teleport Garuda to an enemy and focus her blender blades on the single enemy for massive damage ripping them appart for a blood orb, using this ends her 4th ability and opens an active blood orb.  (Gives more versatility in acquiring blood orbs while her 4th ability is active.)

Also I did mention percentages alot based on numbers absorbed, I'd recommend using Harrows mathematics for his 4th ability and alter them as needed and apply to Garuda, this would give her way more versatility and synergy with her kit as well as other warframes.

 

Course, it's just my ideas and two cents.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

39 minutes ago, Biosko said:

Garudas 4 sounds really boring. Just like Revenants 4. Turn on -> enemies take damage like you had a kill aura.

If you want gore..why not make it an animation:

Turn on

     - everything gets slomo for everyone

      -repeat while duration is active: ( aim at an enemy -> slashdash an enemy into pieces while blood splatters in red clouds around you distracting nearby enemies (aka .5 sec stun))

    and the ability has a limited duration (under 10 seconds).

 

That would feel like gore.

DE doesnt want 'press one button to win'? Well I got a solution for you.

I´d like feedback.

Id prefer an ability like ash 4

[(PSN)AGENTE-809]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ZERO_ghost90 said:

Is that suposed to be a link?

lol no I was just being sarcastic about the "sign here."

Edited October 20, 2018 by (PS4)AGENTE-809

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Justo ahora, (PS4)AGENTE-809 dijo:

lol no I was just being sarcastic.

My bad

[TyrianMollusk]

Too many Garuda 4 suggestions are Mesa players wanting another Mesa (or non-Mesa players wanting their own Mesa) or exalted melees, which squander an ability to replace our chosen loadout slot (and are a little too Valkyr). The current existing ability is similarly bad. It turns the player off as you turn into a silly floating murder vortex.  Turning the player off is bad.

Abilities should add to the game, enhancing play. The best abilities add to the game for you and others. Garuda is missing this, and I think some kind of "Blood Moon" area-boost 4 would be a nice way to get it in there.  Lots of options for what to do with that, but here's my fairly easy suggestion:

• Everyone adds to everyone's melee combo counter in the AoE (maybe plus a second or two on counter reset also, or just kill combo resets for the duration)
• All Melee hits create a splash of blood that floats a moment then goes to each player to be absorbed into their combo counter
• Enemies these trails pass through suffer accuracy penalties (or take a puncture proc) and take increased damage
• Solo players add extra combo counter per hit (maybe two more per hit?).  Duo players add a smaller missing-player bonus (0.5?).  The delay on the blood trail is also to make the ability more functional/interesting while in solo, so you can still maneuver enemies into trails.  If it's not too much, have Garuda's claws fly along with her melee, doing additional hits and damage and adding a little more hit reach.

This makes for a unique and easily built party-time ult (and probably works even better with melee 3.0 than with the current melee, where it's more of a damage super-charger than a play-changer).  It's non-invasive, participation-optional, and can never create squad resentment, something a lot of 4s really struggle with.

It might need a little more oomph in solo (maybe the caster counts hits by their companion as well, or some +base CC or a flat +1X buff on combo multiplier), but that should be easy enough tweaking.  Another caveat is it might be overstrong until melee 3.0 changes the combo counter, since it can really crank the combo count.  This might not be a big deal, and can be seen as a fun early-adopter power bonus.🙂

It also emphasizes melee, which is very suitable to the frame powers and totally different from how Valkyr accomplishes that (and even synergizes with each other, or any other exalted melee).  We don't see many favors for melee players, so this adds something special, both for the user and the squad.

If we have to be married to the goofy floating murder vortex, I suggest feeding hits from it into everyone's combo counter and preventing combo counter resets for its duration.  This gives something to the squad and lets Gardua use it without killing her own melee counter, a very annoying side-effect of these "you're doing this now" style abilities.

PS Merging topics while typing completely throws away the post and even your forum's draft saving function.  Very annoying.

[Dishonored]

don't turn garuda 4 into valkyr claw plz
wukong had exalted staff and it pretty bad no one use it.
even crafted zaw is better than wukong exalted melee

Edited October 20, 2018 by HEA-Devazone

[WarBaby2]

17 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

Ye but Revenant ult is boring. To be honest is not about being similar to another frame for me, it's about fire and forget damage auras being incredibly boring in general :[

True, they could have copied a better ability... like Ash's ultimate. In the end, it probably comes down to how compelling the design of a frame is... that where Atlas' and Wukong's problem lies.

Edited October 20, 2018 by WarBaby2

[peterc3]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)AGENTE-809 said:

I suggest making her 4th like spawning lots of spikes in a big area, crushing and stabbing the enemies around her in a 360 angle, with Slash procs and/or reducing enemies armor. Perhaps with some % of dropping health orbs on kills with her 4th.

Tired: copy Revenant and Nyx

Wired: copy Nezha

Seeing as you think DE has no good ideas, how about you come up with one that isn't a copy of other frames' abilities?

16 minutes ago, (PS4)AGENTE-809 said:

I'm pretty sure plenty of people don't like her 4th already and she is not even out.

I'm pretty sure there are tons of other threads where you might actually get an idea of what the vocal minority thinks.

[Suska]

Yeah, I don't see any reason exalted weapons should be worse than a zaw unless they plan to nerf all the melee weapons (plz no), but even so, Garuda is wearing giant claws - those are exalted weapons or they are silly. What if they had line of sight range though, imagine chopsuey a whole room..? hmm

[GPrime96]

10 minutes ago, Suska said:

Yeah, I don't see any reason exalted weapons should be worse than a zaw unless they plan to nerf all the melee weapons (plz no), but even so, Garuda is wearing giant claws - those are exalted weapons or they are silly. What if they had line of sight range though, imagine chopsuey a whole room..? hmm

DE probably put Giant Claws on Garuda so she can use it like Excal's Slash Dash with her 1 and Nyx's Assimilate with her 4 instead of just being another Weapoon. So more Visual and ability Focused instead of Weapon Focused like Valkyr's Claws.

Edited October 20, 2018 by VPrime96

[Borg1611]

It may end up being fun, I don't want to judge it without having seen more of it, but if they wanted to change it I would vote for something like a corpse explosion ability. I think that would fit her gore theme and we currently have no abilities like that in the game. 

It could be something like, detonate all corpses in X meter radius around her (or give it a longer casting range and have the radius around where you cast it like a Necromancer in diablo). They could do damage based on the health of the unit being blown up in a radius around the corpses. Surviving enemies could be coated in blood and given some sort of debuff. 

The explosions could leave blood all over the place that she could then absorb to heal as well. Possibly exclude the blood effect from mechanical units if possible.

Alternatively to a corpse explosion ability could be something similar to the D3 Necro's corpse lance ability. That ability also uses a corpse, but instead of a general AoE explosion, it turns the corpse into a single target high damage longer range lance. That would also fit her theme well. The ability could require a target and if there's a corpse within a decent range, the corpse blows up and a lance flies out to impale your target dealing high damage (maybe base damage + some % of the max health of the corpse). 

A third idea could be to sprout some kind of gory looking totem from corpses in range. The more corpses that feed it could make it larger and/or more elaborate. The totem could give a wide area buff that scales up with more corpses fed to the totem. It could be an affinity range buff and re-casting the ability in range of an existing totem feeds more corpses to the totem to build it up further. Feeding the totem could have some animation where the bodies explode and you see the parts/blood flying off to be absorbed by the totem.