Garuda Feedback and Discussion

[Synpai]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

In name, maybe. Functionally I think the passive would be lost on Valkyr since her whole purpose is to massively resist and even avoid damage completely. It would rarely be put to much use.

Eh I don't think the passive exactly works at all in it's state.

I think the whole taking damage for a buff (in general) is Valkyr's territory.

 

Like if taking damage was stored as a power strength buff for the next ability cast or stored for a melee damage/critical chance/critical damage buff that triggered for a duration on the next melee attack.

I've been asking for something like this since they first changed Hysteria to increase in drain over time with no incentive to endure the additional drain (I'll find the thread eventually).

Spoiler

And this is just an updated concept from this from the megathread from what feels like an eternity ago.:

 

 

But at most they'll tweak the passive to work for Garuda:

On 2018-10-21 at 12:57 PM, Synpai said:

It does seem the bonus damage should be stored/tied to the blood orb as a passive in general where taking damage grants her bonus damage. The blood orb becomes "charged" enancing her abilities passed a certain threshold.

 

Valkyr will hopefully get a revival passive similar to Inaros, but involving her claws

Edited October 23, 2018 by Synpai

[Vulcangames]

For me, her 4 istill as the big issue. I really hope that DE will listen the community and do something like a "blade barrage "(I know that some people will compare it with destiny), and personally I would like it to have a "come back" mechanic like Xayah's feathers from League of Legends .

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)jaegerbombtastic said:

So if you want Valkyr to be berserker so badly, why bother with Geruda’s passive?

 Why not suggest something like changing her paralysis to better be in tune with her hysteria? Instead of using shields, maybe DE could incorporate using health drain (how much health dependent on strength mods) instead and gains massive damage with her stun? That way you could regain health back in hysteria. Might be a bit OP but it allows for ‘health drain = more damage.’.

Her lore/description states that shes a berzerker. I want her playstyle to match her lore/description.

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

Just now, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Her lore/description states that shes a berzerker. I want her playstyle to match her lore/description.

Did you ignore what I said about paralysis involving the berserker part? Because I tried to see it in your light as well.

 Not only that but things change. Rev was a vampire frame, but now his status is pretty much Eidolon frame. Things change, so maybe they don’t see Valkyr as much as berserker anymore than they once did.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 minute ago, (PS4)jaegerbombtastic said:

Did you ignore what I said about paralysis involving the berserker part? Because I tried to see it in your light as well.

 Not only that but things change. Rev was a vampire frame, but now his status is pretty much Eidolon frame. Things change, so maybe they don’t see Valkyr as much as berserker anymore than they once did.

Rev change happened before he was released. Which means the vampire aspect isn't cannon.

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

1 minute ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Rev change happened before he was released. Which means the vampire aspect isn't cannon.

You’re ignoring my question, which makes me think you’re reading only what you want to read.

 I’ve offered my aspect of trying to change a part of her kit to work into hysteria, but I guess I can’t make you read it if you don’t want to.

[Atsia]

1 minute ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Rev change happened before he was released. Which means the vampire aspect isn't cannon.

No, he's still a vampire frame, it's just muddled with eidolon aspects.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)jaegerbombtastic said:

You’re ignoring my question, which makes me think you’re reading only what you want to read.

 I’ve offered my aspect of trying to change a part of her kit to work into hysteria, but I guess I can’t make you read it if you don’t want to.

Paralyze and rip line need complete overhauls or outright changes. Your idea is fine, i still want hysteria change and passive change.

Edited October 23, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[Klokwerkaos]

The current 4 is a press 4 to win ability which I thought DE was moving away from for all the obvious reasons, only it sucks because you're slow and not invul and super squish with no team synergy to speak of.

Was thinking something like hela from thor:

Have her do a spin 260 and launch out bone spikes within a sphere that have punch through, each enemy caught in it gets a bleed proc and flat piercing/slash damage, animation for blood shooting from them to her at this stage, then flat rate per target from the bleed proc per tick is converted to health for her and 1/3 that to allies in affinity range (this means the faster they die, the less health she and the team gets, while the longer they are up, the more this ability benefits, enacting minor survivability scaling).  

After cast your next 1, 2, or 3 cast in the next 2 sec costs half energy cost.  This would really give her a good flow I think since you could then either grab more health if you need it, or cut your health down if you can afford it for more bonus damage, or grab some orb action if desired.  

This gives her some minor support, fast attack option to keep active and doesn't mess up her synergy.  Plus we actually get a blood/mage vampire out of the deal with a heal over time rather than a flat heal surge.  

I'm pretty sure while this needs some animation that could be reworked slightly from divine spears, this simple change would make this frame 1000% more fun to play and wouldn't be a huge disappointment like khora/revenant pending the exact numbers.  This puts her more in a micromanage/minor support role that has her full kit synergize and removes the press 4 to win boring mechanic while upping her interactive play style.

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

I’d actually like to see something about this. I was super excited to use her when she was just announced, but when they got to her fourth I was just a little disappointed.

[butka1998]

1 hour ago, Vulcangames said:

For me, her 4 istill as the big issue. I really hope that DE will listen the community and do something like a "blade barrage "(I know that some people will compare it with destiny), and personally I would like it to have a "come back" mechanic like Xayah's feathers from League of Legends .

Well it is basically blade barage already except the "knifes/talons" do not explode and rotate around her grinding enemies. I really dont understand why people have so much problems with it like I get it has the same function as revenant. But still we already have ember that did besically the same before revenant... And its not even near as op as mesa was when she came out.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

1 hour ago, Synpai said:

Eh I don't think the passive exactly works at all in it's state.

I think the whole taking damage for a buff (in general) is Valkyr's territory.

 

Like if taking damage was stored as a power strength buff for the next ability cast or stored for a melee damage/critical chance/critical damage buff that triggered for a duration on the next melee attack.

If it's any amount of damage received that gives some kind of proc, I agree. If it scales continuously based on lower health percentage (like Berserker passive) then it doesn't make sense for Valkyr since she statistically receives the lowest amounts of damage per attack in the game based on her armor and invulnerability. That would be more appropriate for someone like Inaros with decent armor but obscene amounts of health.

[Synpai]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

If it's any amount of damage received that gives some kind of proc, I agree. If it scales continuously based on lower health percentage (like Berserker passive) then it doesn't make sense for Valkyr since she statistically receives the lowest amounts of damage per attack in the game based on her armor and invulnerability. That would be more appropriate for someone like Inaros with decent armor but obscene amounts of health.

Oh dang...we got megathreaded.

 

Ultimately I'm rooting for the "auto-hysteria" passive to make her a neigh undying claw machine. Among other changes. Just gonna go ahead and make a rework thread for my own sanity.

[wargthewarg]

A gore frame that glides in the air like a ballerina in the Swan Lake?

DE please don't release another uninspired frame that needs an instant rework that fixes the worst and then will ultimately require a full rework a few years down the line. Make something fun, something exciting. Gliding motionless through the air just kills all the fun of the movement system in the game.

[butka1998]

23 minutes ago, wargthewarg said:

A gore frame that glides in the air like a ballerina in the Swan Lake?

DE please don't release another uninspired frame that needs an instant rework that fixes the worst and then will ultimately require a full rework a few years down the line. Make something fun, something exciting. Gliding motionless through the air just kills all the fun of the movement system in the game.

Ever heard of Hanibal Lecter? 😄 Who told you blood, gore, obsession and so on cant go hand in hand with finesse and artistry? That might be the main difference between her and valkyr actually. Valkyr is just this invincible raging kitty cat that likes to tear everything apart in any way possible to take vengeance. Garuda might do the same but in quite different way (with finesse,....). 

Actually when I am thinking about it this kind of emotionlessness while performing bloody any horible things is why many loved Hanibal so much. 😄 Hope I shed some light on it for you why she isnt all screamy and so on (that would be copy paste of valkyr) and doesnt move that much.

Edited October 23, 2018 by butka1998

[butka1998]

1 hour ago, Klokwerkaos said:

The current 4 is a press 4 to win ability which I thought DE was moving away from for all the obvious reasons, only it sucks because you're slow and not invul and super squish with no team synergy to speak of.

Was thinking something like hela from thor:

Have her do a spin 260 and launch out bone spikes within a sphere that have punch through, each enemy caught in it gets a bleed proc and flat piercing/slash damage, animation for blood shooting from them to her at this stage, then flat rate per target from the bleed proc per tick is converted to health for her and 1/3 that to allies in affinity range (this means the faster they die, the less health she and the team gets, while the longer they are up, the more this ability benefits, enacting minor survivability scaling).  

After cast your next 1, 2, or 3 cast in the next 2 sec costs half energy cost.  This would really give her a good flow I think since you could then either grab more health if you need it, or cut your health down if you can afford it for more bonus damage, or grab some orb action if desired.  

This gives her some minor support, fast attack option to keep active and doesn't mess up her synergy.  Plus we actually get a blood/mage vampire out of the deal with a heal over time rather than a flat heal surge.  

I'm pretty sure while this needs some animation that could be reworked slightly from divine spears, this simple change would make this frame 1000% more fun to play and wouldn't be a huge disappointment like khora/revenant pending the exact numbers.  This puts her more in a micromanage/minor support role that has her full kit synergize and removes the press 4 to win boring mechanic while upping her interactive play style.

Problem with this is there is already something that does sort of the same thing... Radial Javelin mixed with Well of Life. So nope this whole launching those blades away thing that many suggested would be abilitty that already exists. Maybe Making her launch them one after another (or number of them depending on power strenght in certain angle in front of her but that sounds like current Psychic Bolts of Nyx) like original Irelia from LoL did would be the answer. 

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by butka1998

[Ornue]

First of all, I would like to say this is MY OPINION (please don't roast me) on what could change in the new Frame: Garuda, and I'm not very good in English nor PH (there is little PH in here) XD.

For Garuda's stat:

Note: This stat is what I made up and is not the real thing.

Mastery Rank: 0

Health: 450 (Rank 30:1500)

Shield: 0

Armor: 350

Energy: 0

Sprint speed: 1.11

For Garuda's Skill:

Note: the name of the skills is what I got from the Devstream #118

1st ability: Soul Bulwark

I only have one problem with this skill and that is the shield is SO DAMN SLOW.

2nd ability: Sanguine Siphon 

I have no problem with this skill, its a great assist to not only Garuda but also her teamates.

3rd ability: Life Sunder

Sacificing half of her health for more damage due to her passive is an OK kind of skill but if she doesn't have at least 2 second of invulnerability, this could be the thing that would destroy her potential, also I saw that in Devstream that Rebecca was at 2 health then a butcher hit her and her health is back to full health if that is not a bug but a real function than u can scratch that 2 second invulnerability because that would be god like and I like it.

4th ability: Engulfing Blade

For her Ultimate ability, I agreed with a lot of people that this is just almost the same to Revenant's Danse Macabre with way less range, and I actually would like Garuda to have Valkyr's Histeria ability instead, but of course her ultimate will not be a 1:1 copy of Hysteria but will have the same style. She could use her claw to attack but not just her claw but a fan made from her claws just like Gunsen (Warfan) but with range of a whip weapon, So a whip claw so to say. where you could use the fan for close range and the whip claw for long range . It's Gore, It's elegant, It's perfect. (In my case anyway)

Passive: UNNAMED/ I don't know

From what I see from the Devstream she will have a 100% damage at full health and the lower her health the more increase her damage is, at the caps of 200% with the health of 2!!. This passive is what concern me as a player who wanted to play Garuda because she is damn awesome. Anyway, in NO circumstances I would let myself to be at the health of 2 even if I have some damage nullifying skill, although the concept of having less health to have more damage is a great idea but I think if you tweak this way is much better for Garuda and for us player who played:

At full health she will have 100% damage and it will increase the lower her health is, cap: 200% damage when at 20% health. her damage will decay 5% per second if she is not at 20% lower health.

I think this passive suit her better.

OK NOW for the full explanation on her strange stat:

I wanted to make a unique mechanic for Garuda since she has a good synergy between her 1 - 3 ability, also to make a different between her and other warframes. As you can see I wrote she has 0 Mana and why is that? because that she uses her own health to use her skill and to me that is interesting the only warframe to not uses mana but her own health (other than Nekros's Desecrate) and to me that is amazing. OK here is the rundown of what I had in mind for her: to use her skill she need health so I make her health 450 close to inaros's 550 base health so that she still have a chance to survive with only 20% health and if her health is 450 + 440% (Vitality mod) + 1050(Rank 30) she will have about 3950 health and 20% of that is 786 health! you may not survive with 786 health against level 100 bombard however that if don't include armor and that's where armor comes in; I put her with 350 armor, why? because I think she will be a good amount of armor not too tanky but not to soft too, and considering her abilities, passive and the enemies that she will face that's a good amount.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that is what I think what I could change in Garuda and I don't mind waiting for 1-3 months if Garuda is going to be change to something better, maybe a Phoenix perhaps XD i don't know.

I really like the concept of Garuda she is is just the some of the skill could be change or tweak a bit to make it better and obviously I know that at this point it's hard to change some aspect of what I just said in the actual game, also I know what I just said is maybe a bit OP but nonetheless I would like to express my opinion on Garuda and If I get anything wrong about Garuda please do tell.

 

And last but not least I would like to say sorry if I ever did offend anybody in the community or cause harm to you in any sort of ways, I am truly sorry. Thank you.

 

Here is Link for those stuffs:

This is Gunsen - http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Gunsen

Rebecca get hit at 2 health then back to full health (at around 22:07 ish) - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/324726747?t=00h22m05s

Edited October 23, 2018 by Ornue

[GPrime96]

4 minutes ago, Ornue said:

4th ability: Engulfing Blade

For her Ultimate ability, I agreed with a lot of people that this is just almost the same to Revenant's Danse Macabre with way less range, and I actually would like Garuda to have Valkyr's Histeria ability instead, but of course her ultimate will not be a 1:1 copy of Hysteria but will have the same style. She could use her claw to attack but not just her claw but a fan made from her claws just like Gunsen (Warfan) but with range of a whip weapon, So a whip claw so to say. where you could use the fan for close range and the whip claw for long range . It's Gore, It's elegant, It's perfect. (In my case anyway)

So like Exalted Blade?

[HeySneeze]

Id like to through my hat into the ring. 
Her passive looks great!

1) I like how it is. I just wish the animation was a bit flashier.
-I would also like if you stand near your 2 it will help to charge your orb. damage scaling scales with health regen output

2)  I like how this one is but Id prefer a consistent health regen.
- ALSO IT HEALS ALLIES

3) I like this one it looks great and seems to play well with her other abilities.

4) I would like if this was similar to valkyr/ but also kinda like chroma. 
maybe make it a charge based ability 6 at max rank ( like revenants armor), that gives you a speed boost, her claws come off and come apart and rotate around her like nezha's ring.  Enemies that get close get shot back and impaled.

- Taking a certain percentage of health damage gives you an extra claw. (synergy with 3)
-If you have your 2 is active. the claw will then pull the enemies to the bone spire causing the health output to increase and the range increases. and if the enemies die while in transit to it, it causes a burst of healing. (Trinity EV augment).

I don't know how good this will be but her 4 was boring and I wanted to chip in. 

[Klokwerkaos]

2 hours ago, butka1998 said:

Problem with this is there is already something that does sort of the same thing... Radial Javelin mixed with Well of Life. So nope this whole launching those blades away thing that many suggested would be abilitty that already exists. Maybe Making her launch them one after another (or number of them depending on power strenght in certain angle in front of her but that sounds like current Psychic Bolts of Nyx) like original Irelia from LoL did would be the answer. 

 

Maybe in a cone in front of her would work fine too, it all depends on how they tweak the numbers.  Less area means it needs to be more potent of an ability.  Well of life and radial javelin is also two separate frame synergies, and it wouldn't discount that because that's still a viable tactic, it just means they could work either in conjunction or you could run with one or the other.  Also I'd have to insist it be faster than that animation in the video to keep her active, that's slow as all get out.

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Klokwerkaos

[bbwb]

Thought some more on it and I have a revised 4 I like and some other thoughts.

[2] The target is no longer invulnerable, if you keep it invulnerable the skill can and I'm going to assume will feel griefy (so more like Trinity/Nidus). The skill has a set duration (mod-able). Healing will have two components now, a mod influence-able number that ranks up with the ability that is based on time interval and then a target's lost health % health lost while skill is active (hp % not being a 1 to 1). Guaranteed slash (bleed) proc. If you burst the target down you will get a burst heal, but if you leave it up over time you will get a larger total heal value (time value heal + hp % value heal).

In this way if people leave it alone they'll heal more, but they could destroy it for health and your skill isn't wasted time for you or your allies (because you're either trolling them or because they never let you finish your healing you needed). 

Sanguine siphon can be cast up to six times (six pillars) each pillar will remove a claw (bone spike) from her model. So now the claws are better explained in the model, it bothered me that they existed there but weren't really used at all. May be used on the same target by holding the ability key, each pillar will cause the heal value to increase as well as stack another slash proc. Targets that can't be impaled due to being a boss or whatever (can't be hard CC'd) will instead carry these bone spikes on them slowing them (if possible) and keeping the healing effect.

Tapping 2 while looking at an impaled target will return the bone spike.

A mechanic of losing 25-50% life to recover a bone claw/spike could be an interesting balance to not nerfing heal the skill due to so many spikes being possibly up at once (also consider the heal of overlapping radius don't stack for balance reasons). Should also encourage more use of 3 (losing life on purpose while out of combat). Tapping 2 in this case would return a % value towards the bone spike timers (so it not doing any damage means you get it back but if you've used it slightly you'll get it back much sooner, but not immediately, instead). 

[4]:

Engulfs Gaurda in blades that spiral around her, when she presses E she brings forth the blades into a school of blades (swarm, flock, or w.e lol) and does a large aoe cleave in front of her. Allowing the [1] to be used/modified in this mode could be nice, a higher damage dash forward (blades leading and spiraling to location). Keeping her floating like posture and movements being sweeping/elegant. 

Left click while an enemy is impaled by Garuda's bone spike will cause the impaled target to be lift up and included in the swirling mess around her (accelerating the death of the target and the healing effect continues). Aiming at enemies (as if a gun) and firing will cause the impaled target to leave the swirling mess and impale/embed into the location/target - being too heavy to be used again (if the target is still alive the [2] effects will continue, otherwise it'll just vanish).

Multiple impaled targets means more enemies spinning around her, dealing more damage in melee swings and also more impale cannon opportunities. If the target that is impaled to be used as a cannon can't be hard cc'd then rag doll them (if they can be rag doll'd) if they can't be rag doll'd then remove the spike for damage and launch it at the location as a dead spike (meaning the healing effect is done once removed from the target).  

Possible QoL change to [3]:

 Increases max hp by 1% for every 5% hp lost (or whatever value desired). The extra max hp can be healed up by any source but if the extra max hp is lost by any skill other than life sunder [3] then it is lost (until regained, or of course till all bonus life % is gone). The values not designed to be a tank skill but so that later levels (even just 60-100) you can still use your passive without it being a prayer that people don't breath too hard at you. 

Edited October 23, 2018 by bbwb

[butka1998]

4 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

Maybe in a cone in front of her would work fine too, it all depends on how they tweak the numbers.  Less area means it needs to be more potent of an ability.  Well of life and radial javelin is also two separate frame synergies, and it wouldn't discount that because that's still a viable tactic, it just means they could work either in conjunction or you could run with one or the other.  Also I'd have to insist it be faster than that animation in the video to keep her active, that's slow as all get out.

 

It looks like its slow but she can shoot them at will and she has 4 shots in video she just shot them rapidly one after another. What I meant was blades that hower over or around garuda just like on the picture and she can simply shoot them at will at enemies. Given its warframe number of shots could be even unlimeted and it could be energy draining ability. Or it could be like 7 or 9 blades (or number depending on power strenght) that you get to shoot when you want to after activation for reasonable energy price. (or given the position of blades on her wrists she could shoot them out from the hand just aiming at enemy and shooting them sort of like Hela in previous post)

Edited October 24, 2018 by butka1998

[Vulcangames]

6 hours ago, butka1998 said:

Problem with this is there is already something that does sort of the same thing... Radial Javelin mixed with Well of Life. So nope this whole launching those blades away thing that many suggested would be abilitty that already exists. Maybe Making her launch them one after another (or number of them depending on power strenght in certain angle in front of her but that sounds like current Psychic Bolts of Nyx) like original Irelia from LoL did would be the answer. 

 

For me it would be better if it was based on Xayah's ult. Like a big jump backwards and trowing her blade, spike, featherson a air dmg and she could even reactivate to bring them back, dealing another wave of damage. You can even imagine the situation were you are surrounded by anymore(so her little while can't really help you ) so you ult, jumping backwards while throwing a wave of blades, now the enemies are all in front of you(so you are probably protected by your shield) and you just press the button again and the blades all come to you dealing damage to all enemies on their way back to you, at least until a bubble appears and make them and your shield disappear, murdering you. Happy End.

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Vulcangames

[UrielColtan]

12 hours ago, Klokwerkaos said:

The current 4 is a press 4 to win ability which I thought DE was moving away from for all the obvious reasons, only it sucks because you're slow and not invul and super squish with no team synergy to speak of.

Was thinking something like hela from thor:

Have her do a spin 260 and launch out bone spikes within a sphere that have punch through, each enemy caught in it gets a bleed proc and flat piercing/slash damage, animation for blood shooting from them to her at this stage, then flat rate per target from the bleed proc per tick is converted to health for her and 1/3 that to allies in affinity range (this means the faster they die, the less health she and the team gets, while the longer they are up, the more this ability benefits, enacting minor survivability scaling).  

After cast your next 1, 2, or 3 cast in the next 2 sec costs half energy cost.  This would really give her a good flow I think since you could then either grab more health if you need it, or cut your health down if you can afford it for more bonus damage, or grab some orb action if desired.  

This gives her some minor support, fast attack option to keep active and doesn't mess up her synergy.  Plus we actually get a blood/mage vampire out of the deal with a heal over time rather than a flat heal surge.  

I'm pretty sure while this needs some animation that could be reworked slightly from divine spears, this simple change would make this frame 1000% more fun to play and wouldn't be a huge disappointment like khora/revenant pending the exact numbers.  This puts her more in a micromanage/minor support role that has her full kit synergize and removes the press 4 to win boring mechanic while upping her interactive play style.

I keep seeing this Hela suggestion for her 4 and i personally don't like that its still basically ignoring those big honking talons Garuda has, and such an ability seems more suited to a Radial Javelin revision or something. 

For Garuda, I was preferring something more like this, for her 4.

 

 

I also don't like the idea of her summoning bones, as that could be a concept for a whole new Warframe altogether. Being blood themed is already good enough and there are a plethora of things that can be done with that concept, from marking enemies for heat seeking/homing attacks, to swiftly traveling across the floor or even walls on blood puddle pathways, to bloody rain that crystallizes into finely sharp needles, to blood bubble prisons/quagmires. Any of these sort of abilities could have a healing passive too.

I would also like a rework to the blood ball shield, instead use the iron in the blood to create a red carapace around Garuda, upon being hit it does not simply resist damage but also heats up the blood around you, resulting in red steamy myst spires that emanate from the frame and can be siphoned into a sphere to launch back at enemies as a red steam bomb that does viral damage, and you are able throw it for as long as the shield last(be it duration or damage point based)and for as long as the damage done allows for red vapor to sprout, instead of giving up the shield to use it.

Oh and they can ditch that self damaging move unless its used to create her shield or some kind of CC or serious mobility move(A few blood teleports for instance). Merely gaining energy is not enough, as you would be better off with Rage or Hunter Adrenaline

Edited October 24, 2018 by UrielColtan
Grammar.

[Ornue]

9 hours ago, VPrime96 said:

So like Exalted Blade?

Yes... and to be honest I actually forgotten about exalted blade XD