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ivara might just secretly be the worst frame in the game, don't @ me


Space0ddity
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There are multiple parts to this and ill go over them one by one, making this succint and rapt.

1. what do her abilities even do?

She's got maybe the worst invis, a kinda terrible exalted weapon, a mostly useless 1, and a 2 that barely exists. Now what i'm saying just sounded like pure opinion, and something that deserves a downvote, but hear me out.

Lets consider the strongest attribute in warframe to be 'speed'. speed of moving, speed of killing, speed of dying. All three interact with eachother, interlocking to make warframe a speedrunning game. If speed of movement and killing is very fast, then the speed of dying should also be, and vice versa.

Ivara trades all this 'speed' for a set of gimmicks, tricks and tools to help her cheese missions.

This isnt bad by any means. some frames do well as just a walking bag of cheese, and we dont respect them any less. But i'm here to prove that she's terrible compared to modern warframes, and then say something that will shock you

2. why her abilities arent good

Lets start with her 1, its basically 4 arrows, two of which are weak cc, one is an invis, and another is dashwire. When you realize that her invis is only useful to protect afk saryns and revive lone wolves, it becomes useless when you get into a squad where the people are still human. And when you realize dashwire is clunky to change wires on, and provides a questionable damage buff, you realize how weak it really can be. Sure, extra crit damage is nice but theres a good chance you wont be able to effectively kill from up there on account of all the height, isolation, location, etc.

The fact that we didnt gain nullshield and some variant of encumber instead of the two weakest cc sources throws away a potential niche as anti-shield sortie too.

Then we have navigator. Navigator doesnt work for hitscan, which throws almost all the weapon pool away, and makes you choose only one artemis bow arrow. Navigator also requires a highly specific punchthrough build to actually kill more than one person too. This turns this ability into an unusable one that doesnt work on maybe half of your builds unless you want to abandon mod slots.

Prowl, is essentially an invis that trades speed for....... wait for it, single target desecrate. If you want to actually make use of the downsides, you also need to sacrifice a mod slot for it too. You cant use energy pizzas, you cant counteract 1 energy per second without decloaking either.

And artemis bow is extremely easy to wave away when you consider that at most it can only kill a straight line's worth of enemies in a massive crowd. A complete inability to kill more than a few people makes this no better than a tigris, and despite all the damage it can deal, arguably the worst exalted weapon. Low survivability also becomes a hindrance when you're playing a tridolon, which is potentially the only place an extremely single target weapon can work on, and even then its not counting the fact that it behaves like a shotgun, not a sniper.

 

3. the consequences

Ivara to stealth frames is like Wukong to tank frames, a strange collection of gimmicks and cheese that is completely useless and redundant in a squad. when Wukong finally gets replaced by a better Wukong, she will take the throne of the worst frame.

But in a sense, that's fine. I like her this way, despite all her faults and I dont want the faults changed. Her weaknesses are part of her identity, and maybe represent the ideal state of warframe power levels. But if i can pin down a change, she could do more for a squad than this, and maybe drop some health orbs or give people energy, at least better than her prowl can.

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11 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Ivara just lost her ability to perfect capture on Vallis. Things are definitely not getting better for her.

My only regular use for her was sort of RPing a conservation officer/environmentalist on Orb Vallis and now this...RIP creepy archery witch.   

Though I suppose her invis is still better for floof hunting than Loki's.  But what an unnecessary nerf to something that barely matters to the rest of the game.

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ivara is good in three scenarios. solo stealth/loot, solo survival, or a very coordinated loot squad. i mostly use her for leveling up melee weapons and some marksman weapons.

play around with prowl. know that duration mods decrease energy cost while in prowl and learn that pickpocket give you 100% chance for extra loot as opposed to nekros' desecrate which gives you roughly a 50% chance. you may have to risk durability, as you are going to need as many duration and range mods as possible.

also know that pickpocket's 100% loot does not mean exactly what it means. what it really refers to is the chance of a successful pickpocket. with this said, i do wish that the chance to pickpocket was 100% by default as it can be influenced by overextended which already effects the headshot damage while in prowl.

 

Edited by MysticDragonMage
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Alright let's go over why you are wrong

 

the cc itself isn't weak. Sleep cc (and blind cc) are among the strongest since it allows you to expose enemies to finishers, which means with a covert lethality dagger, you can kill any non-cc immune unit in the game. This means she effectively can solo survivals well into level 500+ because you will never have damage that falls off. The stealth arrow helps out in sortie defence missions where keeping the objective invis keeps them relatively unharmed. The other cc arrow is useful for riven challenges that involve killing large amounts of enemies in a low timeframe (eg while wall latching)

Navigator isn't useful beyond the "I want to oneshot an eidolon using ivara" meme build (which is a meme because a lot of warframes can oneshot eidolon). It is however an interesting power that's fun to use and very unique.

Prowl is useful since it's the only loot based power that isn't dependent on actually killing your target. This is important because it means even on content that ivara can't kill, but necessitates looting the target (like a high level survival mission) you can still loot enemies. It's also a toggle invis which means there is no downtime where you expose yourself like every other stealth move. And again, looking into synergy, ivara's the only frame with both that sleep cc effect and a no-downtime invis which ensures 100% safety throughout a mission.

 

Is she slow? yeah. And while that is a metric to consider her bad, she brings utility which is why she's valued.

 

Oh and she isn't Ember who's powers are 100% no-utility only-damage-but-the-damage-is-bad-anyways.

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Thank you....

I needed a good reason to JJJameson laugh.....

One thing that I KNOW is wrong with your post is that you see Warframe as a speed run game. It was not to be that way (go look at Dark Sector proposal video). DE has made it become a fast paced game to give those with firefly attention spans a way to stay in the game. Ivara is a HUNTER frame. Ash is a Assassin Frame. They didn't know how to bullet jumped when they were first made....that is something that was recently unlocked.

But keep going with your comic Troup. I might book you for a bar mitzvah one day....if I become Jewish, have a kid that hits 13, and want to party the night away.

Play on....

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She only sucks if you mod her wrong.

 

Mod for ability longevity, energy max, and use Streamline and Energy Siphon to slow the energy drain and you're good. Take a Rakta (Red Veil) weapon to proc-boost energy regen. Pizzas seldom need dropped that way for me. And make sure your quick succession aiming shots are gud.

Otherwise, Prowl when applicable and run from one point to the next. Saves a little energy and regens some in the meantime. Easy-peasy.

 

Even if I go slow & loot everything not nailed down, I still get out of a mission in under 20 minutes. OP is doing it wrong.

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2 hours ago, MysticDragonMage said:

ivara is good in three scenarios. solo stealth/loot, solo survival, or a very coordinated loot squad. i mostly use her for leveling up melee weapons and some marksman weapons.

play around with prowl. know that duration mods decrease energy cost while in prowl and learn that pickpocket give you 100% chance for extra loot as opposed to nekros' desecrate which gives you roughly a 50% chance. you may have to risk durability, as you are going to need as many duration and range mods as possible.

also know that pickpocket's 100% loot does not mean exactly what it means. what it really refers to is the chance of a successful pickpocket. with this said, i do wish that the chance to pickpocket was 100% by default as it can be influenced by overextended which already effects the headshot damage while in prowl.

 

You forgot cheesing sortie intercepts 

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2 hours ago, Don_T_Shoot said:

My only regular use for her was sort of RPing a conservation officer/environmentalist on Orb Vallis and now this...RIP creepy archery witch.   

Though I suppose her invis is still better for floof hunting than Loki's.  But what an unnecessary nerf to something that barely matters to the rest of the game.

There is still no better frame than ivara in conservation.

There is no reason you can't use the tranq with ivara if you insist on getting a perfect capture. Except you also have sleep arrow to back you up if you fail.

Edited by wtflag
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Lol she has instant hard-CC, damn near infinite invisibility, and an exalted ability with huge damage potential especially with the augment.

Also she can abuse the Zenistar using her Navigator ability to basically turn it into a flying disc of annihilation.

Edited by Tricky5hift
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To those who thinks Navigator is useless, go build a Zaw and slap Exodia Contagion on it. Double jump and melee to the sky and tap Navigator. She's the only frame that can bombard a Interception point clear of enemies without even moving from another capture point.

She can be built into a lot of things compared to many other frames.

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