I am getting Carpal tunnel (Semi Auto weapons)

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Supposedly because you have the ability to offload alot of burst damage with those weapons while not having to mod for fire rate.

IMO, it's just a matter of whether you like semi-auto (and which flavor) or not.

The weapons in question are fine and giving them semi-auto could easily amount to a dps loss for many players.

 

I think you mean full auto?

I get it that masochists who like to damage their hand muscles are a thing, but it really shouldn't be encouraged. Much like how fat acceptance is a thing in certain societies  but is still bad for health and not worth encouraging.

Arca Scisco is the only one in a hot need for full auto. I know you don't really have to spam the Akbolto and I could care less about the Akjagara. Just because the gun works doesn't mean it's perfect or shouldn't be changed.

[Rakosta_Kai]

13 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

I think you mean full auto?

Thanks for that ...I'll correct it.

13 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

I get it that masochists who like to damage their hand muscles are a thing, but it really shouldn't be encouraged. Much like how fat acceptance is a thing in certain societies  but is still bad for health and not worth encouraging.

One has nothing to do with either of these instances.

Likewise, provided that the person injuring themselves isn't asking for special considerations for having done so...It's nobody's business.

Different people, different preferences...I detest bullet hoses, other people dig them.

I am not going to stand in judgement of someone else's preference if it's working for them.

That said, there are button configs that can be added without special equipment to give players that want full auto that functionality.

Been mentioned a few times in this thread so there's really no more relevant discussion to be had on the matter.

Change a config and crisis is averted.

 

13 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

Arca Scisco is the only one in a hot need for full auto. I know you don't really have to spam the Akbolto and I could care less about the Akjagara. Just because the gun works doesn't mean it's perfect or shouldn't be changed.

Arca Scisco is a sniper pistol more similar to Knell than it is the other weapons you named...It's designed to award accuracy.

As such, it's a rather terrible candidate based on it's mechanics...They actually want you hasseling with it to build up its' buff.

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Padre_Akais

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

16 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

I get it that masochists who like to damage their hand muscles are a thing, but it really shouldn't be encouraged. Much like how fat acceptance is a thing in certain societies  but is still bad for health and not worth encouraging.

If I had a Left hemisphere stroke it would actually be beneficial to shoot semi-automatics. Some conditions it's actually in their own interest TOO use an affected hand over and over and over again. It's not macochism, it's called therapy (oh, it HURTS, but you either do it or your hand will just be there and unable to open/close. The little things folks take for granted like buttoning a shirt is a feat of strength to accomplish). I can shoot all I want because my right hand isn't affected, but I can't move around well in game, because of my left hand is affected (those WASD keys are used by the left hand) and vision is shot.

Why I use automatics whenever possible, as I spend more time trying to move my other hand around to move and to see.

There's a lot of disabilities out there, and some repetitition is bad for their hands. But for others, it's called therapy ... and they're using video games as that therapy, too...

 

[Vesiga]

On 2018-12-23 at 5:51 PM, (NSW)Kromatia said:

, stop firing them so quickly

MUH DPS

[AzureTerra]

Just because X weapon has X fire rate potential doesn't mean you have to reach that potential

[NeopetsMaster4432]

Variety should not be locked behind physical pain.
Hopefully DE fixes this soon, as increasing the availability of content for players through a QoL change that doesn't really affect gameplay sounds like something with no downsides.

They already have it for the Battacor, so I can't imagine it would be too hard to apply to other guns.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Doesn't making a Semi-Automatic weapon, control & shoot like an Automatic Weapon change the weapon into an Automatic Weapon.

You can reduce the fire rate, dmg, whatever aspect of it but in the end to make it an Automatic lliterally changes the weapon down to its core & makes it a new weapon.
Making a Toggle doesn't change this.

I'm all for accessibility but to change a Weapon Type to a another Weapon Type just completely kills 1 Archtype (Semi-Autos in this case).
You can't call a gun Semi-Auto but it shoot & control like an Automatic. Cut the fat there & just say it's an Automatic.

I feel for the OP but he/she is basically asking to have all Semi-Automatics removed. If players have it as toggle they will typically always chose the automatic (Easier) option.

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Doesn't making a Semi-Automatic weapon, control & shoot like an Automatic Weapon change the weapon into an Automatic Weapon.

You can reduce the fire rate, dmg, whatever aspect of it but in the end to make it an Automatic lliterally changes the weapon down to its core & makes it a new weapon.
Making a Toggle doesn't change this.

I'm all for accessibility but to change a Weapon Type to a another Weapon Type just completely kills 1 Archtype (Semi-Autos in this case).
You can't call a gun Semi-Auto but it shoot & control like an Automatic. Cut the fat there & just say it's an Automatic.

I feel for the OP but he/she is basically asking to have all Semi-Automatics removed. If players have it as toggle they will typically always chose the automatic (Easier) option.

If holding the trigger down allows the gun to fire at its maximum fire rate, there is nothing stopping you from tapping the trigger equally as fast.

This change wouldn’t make semi automatic weapons into automatic weapons, a lot of games employ a similar system.

Being able to hold down the trigger on the Vaykor Marelok or the Akjagara wouldn’t make them behave any differently.

It would just cause less life long medical problems for the people that like using those weapons.

People that use the Akjagara tell you to bind primary fire to mouse wheel... If your own community has to come up with a workaround for poor design, that’s a really bad sign.

Edited January 5, 2019 by (PS4)Mono-Pop

[(PSN)Zero_029]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

If holding the trigger down allows the gun to fire at its maximum fire rate, there is nothing stopping you from tapping the trigger equally as fast.

This change wouldn’t make semi automatic weapons into automatic weapons, a lot of games employ a similar system.

Being able to hold down the trigger on the Vaykor Marelok or the Akjagara wouldn’t make them behave any differently.

It would just cause less life long medical problems for the people that like using those weapons.

People that use the Akjagara tell you to bind primary fire to mouse wheel... If your own community has to come up with a workaround for poor design, that’s a really bad sign.

Ok. I see your perspective on this. Hmm...
Yeah, you're right. Holding the trigger down won't make the guns behave differently as long as the game does not change anything to make holding the trigger down "easier".
What I mean is that the game has to ensure the rate of fire, accuracy, & recoil aren't softened. If it doesn't then the toggle on would become the "expected" mode for Semi-Autos as everyone would see it as maximizing dmg potential.

To put it bluntly. Holding the trigger down should allow for continuous fire under the condition that the recoil effect every shot. So the player will probably miss multiple shots as the weapon kicks up from each shot. For some guns in the game this is manageable, a player can re-center between shots due to the rate of fire.

To help clarify...
In Destiny 1 there was a Perk called: Full Auto that would allow any Semi-Auto Weapon to fire continuously if the player held the trigger down.
This was nice, but the game ensured that unless the player had Stability perks to help offset the recoil, holding the trigger down was a good way to see the skybox in seconds.

I had a WONDERFUL Suros SR45 (Might have been a Suros SR-47) that thanks to the combo of Braced Frame (Basically granted so much Stability the weapon lost all recoil/kick) & Full Auto was OP as all hell because it did the raw damage of a Semi-Auto Rifle but fired like an Automatic (with a slightly reduced fire rate due to it being a Semi-Auto in nature).

Which is why I'm somewhat (Not 100%) against natively/passively allowing this because it does alter the nature of the gun in many aspects.
Reduced fire rate or not, Semi-Automatic weapons do more damage because they require aim, manual fire for each shot, & then reaiming due to the recoil of each shot; to just allow a toggle to Automatic mode would then allow them (like they did in Destiny & yes other games with RNG rolls such a Borderlands) replace Automatic weapons because they now perform the same but do more damage.

So in theory, toggling on the Automatic fire would need to also lower the damage dealt in addition to adhering the weapon's rate of fire.

The Tiberon Prime is a shining example of this in Warframe. It can be fired in 3 modes with each mode having a form of penalty, typically it's Rate of Fire at the cost of damage
Full-Auto is the weakest in damage but faster in RoF, Burst-Fire does Medium levels of damage but has a slower RoF, & Semi-Auto mode does significantly more damage but at the cost of RoF.

I suppose my remedy for the situation would be for a Full-Auto Mod. It allows any Semi-Auto weapon it's on to be fired continuously by holding down the trigger.
Partnered with a mod like Stabilizer & Steady Hands & the player just made a beast of a weapon.

Cause, yeah, folks should have options.

[Sibernetika]

7 hours ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

Wow, people are really against accessibility options that don't affect their own personal game experience, huh?

Wow there is more options available not just those weapons, or as many other people said.. Use a macro... Since macros are pretty disability friendly. 

[(PSN)Herrwann69]

All weapons don't need to be auto ! It's good to have semi-auto. But i use a macro on them so i don't have to click.

[HugintheCrow]

If your arm hurts from shooting semi auto, consider getting a bigger desk. Yuo have no space for your arm, making your position awkward and causing the pain.

This isn't "game is making my arm hurt" it's "I have bad habits when it comes to sitting in front of the pc".

[Dark_Sp00n]

Le 24/12/2018 à 10:52, SastusBulbas a dit :

If your getting carpel tunnel syndrome then grow up.

 

It is not due to the game but your hand posture, use, layout, life choices. Possible work or other.

 

Re-adjust your chair height, hand position, change mouse. 

Seek medical advise.

 

But dont go blaming weapon mechanics in a game your clearly spending too much time on.

 

 

 

Actually... a game mechanic can be the cause of carpal tunnel if it causes you to rapidly repeat the same stress on one and the same structure (being the flexor/extensor indicis) that just so happens to run through said carpal tunnel. Telling off a very valid idea of the cause of his pain when you yourself clearly aren't a doctor is most inappropriate. But you are right in that he should seek out medical advice.

[Dark_Sp00n]

Auto-fire option is an interesting one, and I remember hoping for it in the past.

I'll send you a rapid-fire macro for autohotkey in the meantime if you want.

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

All weapons don't need to be auto ! It's good to have semi-auto. But i use a macro on them so i don't have to click.

Basically the logic of the high firerate low damage semi auto users.....

[MPonder]

Flawless logic. band aid to play a weapon is always ok and sign of well design.

Also don't forget that things like Akbolto with MR of 13, less than 50 dmg and semi were design to kill in oneshot, ofc, if you hit the head. And things like Opticor/Corinth is just like putting Goku on One Piece.

And players that play auto play like Rambo/Chuck Norris with never let the fire button go.

And also that star chart is full of strong mobs.

[(XBOX)styyxo]

16 hours ago, (XB1)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy said:

People with diminished hearing and visual acuity won't likely be able to see problems before running into them, potentially triggering alarms and failing rescues or spy missions. Do we have an auto constant invisibility option for Mesa so these people can effectively play her in those scenarios?

Actually people with diminished vision might have trouble targeting enemies. Should the option be theŕe for the Tiberon Prime to have its shots automatically hit the heads of nearby enemies regardless of where you're aiming?

Where are the lines drawn? Especially when alternatives already exists for people who don't like semi-automatics.

I was born deaf and I'm generally ok at those missions. At first, I thought i had to be stealth from the beginning of the spy mission til players joined, when i saw they jumped like crazy and no alarm was set off. So no, I don't need invisiblity (I prefer Limbo over Loki). I need things to be visible. Caches and special containers give off a sound, that's where deaf people couldn't find quickly unless we have help (i hate asking for help). Caches, i just have to memorize the patterns of their spots, i guess i'm kinda ok with that. Special containers, i'm fking clueless, searching every room til i spot a glowing blue one. I really tried. I traded plat for one component. 

Diverse warframes exist, mods exist, options exist. Just two options need to be part of it as well, auto aim and full auto mods. You guys whine over some missions being too easy while you do have a choice of toning your own sheet down. It's like stairs and elevators, i don't see many abled ppl choosing stairs over elevators, lol. You can choose but we can't...Ok, NO, we deserve the options.

Toggles, i think that'd make it less exciting for me, which is why i suggest the new mods. Either way, you have my vote, OP. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by (XB1)styyxo

[(NSW)Evilpricetag]

Need a founder to do a macro on Lato Prime, that things fire rate... 

What would normally be called Trigger finger, a weapon capable of firing as fast as the user can pull the trigger, becomes more of a negative passive as it seems the dps is hindered due to the RPG like stats applied to weapons. 

Expecting us to use a macro to get the full use out of the weapon comfortably. 

 

I recommend using a controller..  I too have begun to see signs of carpal tunnel due to mouse usage. No problem with controller so far. 

[Lakais]

The main conceptual issue I see here is that some semi-auto weapons can be fired too fast. 

A weird flex, I know. But hear me out. Compared to the automatics, a semi-auto weapon should conceptually be more about accuracy then volume of fire. The fact that these weapons allow for theoretical bullethose levels of dakka, coupled with their commonly low base damage values, means that to use them "effectively" is to spam them. Leading to annoyance and this thread. 

Basically, I feel like these weapons should be altered slightly to compensate for the loss in fire-rate and be more implied in nature to being semi-automatic, sounds and recoil patterns being chunky and harsh enough to force people to acknowledge that this is no uzi. And the damage being up there to imply that this thing has the power behind it to not be fully automatic. 

Thirdly, though I agree that accessibility is a thing to strive towards, there are limits. If EVERY SINGLE weapon capable of firing at or near human clicking speed was turned into full auto, then a considerable portion of the available toys for us would all become basically reskins. Even more so then now. 

Last option: A new mod set. "Fire conversion mods" Slot that in and a weapon is converted into some particular firemode with maybe some small added stat changes to compensate (loss of damage when switching to full-auto, for example). I like this option myself, gives the tools to do what was asked for and more. 

[LordPantaloonsthe3rd]

DE should also change melee weapons, whips and staves have a lot of melee range and can hit loads of enemies really easy but my krohkur and nikana cant, that means I have to click a lot more to hit more enemies and it makes my finger hurt DE should turn every weapon into a whip or a stave so that they all have more range because more accessibility options is a good thing.

[NeopetsMaster4432]

 It's quite poor design how there are semi-auto weapons with low damage that are required to constantly be spammed super fast to deal any decent damage. It's like DE only playtested those weapons out for a couple minutes.

Allowing semi-auto guns to continuously fire at their semi-automatic rate/pattern while holding down the fire button would be a nice QoL change because the guns would still function as semi-automatic weapons in-game. The only real change would be benefit to players' health! 😄
I mean, such a function would be even more reasonable than the automatic reload feature that we have when a gun runs out of ammo in it's clip, because that isn't literally painful.

Edited January 5, 2019 by NeopetsMaster4432

[HugintheCrow]

11 hours ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

All weapons don't need to be auto ! It's good to have semi-auto. But i use a macro on them so i don't have to click.

I don't use macros nor the scroll wheel. I enjoy the Akjagara and akboltos a lot.

No carpal tunnel ever affected me. Git gud arm placement on your desk.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

23 hours ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

Wow, people are really against accessibility options that don't affect their own personal game experience, huh?

Most people are incredibly selfish and don't care about anything that they view as not benefitting themselves even if they cause no harm.

Yes, warframe needs toggled firing modes for all weapons. It should be as easy as making alt fire change the firing mode when held and execute a special shot, if applicable, when tapped. The Tiberon prime already has this and DE could even slightly nerf the stats for the full auto mode if needed.

What's sad is that plenty of players are using macros to slide attack with melee, or rapid fire semi-auto weapons, so really the game needs to be balanced around such exploits.

[Kevyne_Kicklighter]

3 hours ago, NeopetsMaster4432 said:

 It's quite poor design how there are semi-auto weapons with low damage that are required to constantly be spammed super fast to deal any decent damage. It's like DE only playtested those weapons out for a couple minutes.

Poor DE. They're facing the same problem EA was facing in BF3: when Support toons got an machine gun and endless ammo box, and could lay down cover fire, and all the snipers and rat-tat-tatters (lol) were bellyaching that their accuracy was being pummelled by 10000000000000000000000000000 bullets and grenades!

Each fire mode has their pros and cons. Burst has higher accuracy but can't lay down cover fire. Automatics can lay down cover fire but at the cost of lower per round damage and eats rounds like pigs at the feeding bin (Amprex and Soma anyone???).

Firing a burst weapon to achieve automatic cover fire isn't a design problem at DE's end, that's a player problem of trying to get accuracy AND automatic rates of cover fire ... and now complaining it hurts their hand.

Burst fire was never made to be automatic. It's a burst of 3-5 rounds PER click. Not 10-20 rounds for the same 2 seconds with automatics.

Folks are playing the mechanics wrong.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Kevyne_Kicklighter

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

46 minutes ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

Poor DE. They're facing the same problem EA was facing in BF3: when Support toons got an machine gun and endless ammo box, and could lay down cover fire, and all the snipers and rat-tat-tatters (lol) were bellyaching that their accuracy was being pummelled by 10000000000000000000000000000 bullets and grenades!

Each fire mode has their pros and cons. Burst has higher accuracy but can't lay down cover fire. Automatics can lay down cover fire but at the cost of lower per round damage and eats rounds like pigs at the feeding bin (Amprex and Soma anyone???).

Firing a burst weapon to achieve automatic cover fire isn't a design problem at DE's end, that's a player problem of trying to get accuracy AND automatic rates of cover fire ... and now complaining it hurts their hand.

Burst fire was never made to be automatic. It's a burst of 3-5 rounds PER click. Not 10-20 rounds for the same 2 seconds with automatics.

Folks are playing the mechanics wrong.

Except how do you use a semi-auto with a base rate of fire of 10+ while using the correct mechanics?