Anthem and what Warframe can learn from it

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

47 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Video

@DeMonkey found it. 

 

[DeMonkey]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

@DeMonkey found it. 

Interesting video.

If they hold to their word about constantly putting out updates, and that they will be free updates, then perhaps there is a future. That's hardly different to what Warframe does now.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

4 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

hardly different to what Warframe does now.

Right. That's one of the things I found interesting for sure. 

[Kaotyke]

1 hour ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Right. That's one of the things I found interesting for sure. 

The biggest question would be how frequent those updates would be.

I'm not sure on how many hands BioWare has, but I bet its more than DE and they have better resources since they have a plubisher and are a well known studio.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

29 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

The biggest question would be how frequent those updates would be.

I'm not sure on how many hands BioWare has, but I bet its more than DE and they have better resources since they have a plubisher and are a well known studio.

I know that Anthem has been in development for the last 5 years. So yes that is the question I wondering as well. 

[marelooke]

On 2019-01-29 at 11:18 AM, Toran said:

If Warframe should look up to another game, that should be Monster Hunter with its very varied and clever menagerie. Warframe really could use boss fights like that.

Given Warframe's basic design I don't think that's even possible. I wish people would realize it and stop setting themselves up for disappointment and maybe allow DE to focus on the stuff they're actually good at (which, imho, is horde modes) rather than try to create boss fights that never live up to the expectations of those so insistent on having them.

On 2019-01-29 at 9:46 PM, Ikyr0 said:

you didn't mention: actual endgame. this is why i'll likely be playing Division 2 and Anthem instead of WF when they launch. WF has nothing even resembling an endgame (challenging content with scaling rewards). 

this is really too bad, because I much prefer WF's lore and feel of combat. but without scaling difficulty and rewards, I have no reason to log in. 

I find exclusive rewards hidden behind lockouts and mandatory play-now-or-miss-out mechanics to be rather a turn off and I'm rather happy Warframe didn't just copy WoW in that respect like everyone else seems to do.

If DE comes up with an "end game" I sure hope they innovate (as is their wont) and come up with something new that doesn't discriminate against people that can't (or don't want to) play on a schedule.

On 2019-02-02 at 1:27 PM, Mr.Fluffins said:

Played a bit of the demo. So far, I don't really think there is anything Warframe should "learn" from Anthem. Flying is actually more satisfying for me in Warframe than Anthem, so here is that.

Maybe interesting open world design? Because to me, PoE and Fortuna got boring after about 1 hour (Fortuna even faster, since it seemed like re-skinned PoE), but Anthem open world is varied and interesting. Too bad that Anthem's openworld is THE ONLY place where action generally takes place, while Warframe has the entire starchart as well.

So in short, I think DE devs should go their own way and fulfil their vision, something that helped them get where they are now, instead of trying to copy, sorry, "learn" from other games and trend chase. None of that, please.

Also, are we just going to ignore the multitude of bugs, glitches and connection stability issues in Anthem? Because to me, they impacted the overall experience A GREAT deal, when I jumped to Warframe later, it felt really nice just how smooth everything was in contrast...

Amen to that, Anthem's flying made me appreciate Archwing that much more. I have no idea why all "gaming journalists" seem to love it so much, do they all play on consoles because with mouse+keyboard that was just unbearable...?

I don't think open world design can ever be really interesting unless they manage to somehow procedurally generate open world maps (sort of like they generate normal levels but with open world chunks?). Come to think of it, that might actually be really cool. But a static open world like PoE or the Orb Vallis (no matter how cool) just becomes stale after a while as it's the exact same every time through. Maybe having some actual missions on them would help here (eg. actual Excavation or Survival "nodes" set on the PoE or the Orb Vallis). One could even use random "parts" of the entire map to play on if sticking with the "static" map.

Like you I'm glad they're their own game and while I'm sure DE will borrow ideas when they see something that would fit Warframe in some form I've personally not really seen anything in the demo that made me go "I wish Warframe had that", rather the opposite "damn, I'm glad Warframe doesn't have that".

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by marelooke

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

4 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

constantly putting out updates,

 

3 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

how frequent those updates would be.

So I did some digging, and found this little tid bit. 

No dates but 👆 notice the red bar on the bottom. I wanna say those are the small updates, and the bigger updates will be Starting in March with Echoes of Reality then the Evolving World, Stronger Together and Cataclysm respectively. Then act 2....

Edited February 7, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

The sound is amazing, and afterburners are a go! 

I can not wait to crank my surround sound up so high the neighbors will think a jet is flying over thier house.

Edited February 8, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[EmberStar]

I will admit that even though I thought Anthem's flight controls with mouse-and-keyboard were awful, they were still better than skywing.  This is because skywing (ground deploy Archwing) is terrible and was switched to the bizzare current control setup where you're locked at a set altitude unless you're holding the Sprint or Turbo Boost keys.  It's completely impossible for me to use Skywing in combat, because in a flight mode I expect to fly in the direction I am facing.  If I press forward while looking at the ground, I expect to move closer to the ground.  Not skitter off essentially sideways.  The current Skywing control scheme makes me feel instantly nauseous and I only use it in the Orb Vallis because the map is huge and random players have zero patience before starting the next stage of a bounty.

But honestly, saying that Javelins fly better than Skywing currently isn't saying much.  It's a little like saying that dying instantly of a massive heart attack is better than being devoured alive in a barrel of rabid shrews.  You're still not going to enjoy it either way.

[DanteYoda]

On 2019-01-30 at 11:16 AM, brucifer1 said:

Even though I really enjoyed the Anthem demo gameplay last weekend and the Firefall flashbacks, I would recommend you and anyone else considering it try the free demo this weekend (Feb 1st-3rd). A full priced 65$ game is a bit to spend blindly, try out the demo for free and see how it feels.

I did and then Purchased Anthem.

[XenMaster]

Is there scaling system like lvl 100 enemies = lvl 100 javelin.

 

When player goes in low level, lvl 20 = lvl 20 descaled javelin.

 

Similar to Guild Wars 2, if they have the feature they can balance easily if DE implement it.

[Corvid]

5 hours ago, EmberStar said:

 This is because skywing (ground deploy Archwing) is terrible and was switched to the bizzare current control setup where you're locked at a set altitude unless you're holding the Sprint or Turbo Boost keys.  It's completely impossible for me to use Skywing in combat, because in a flight mode I expect to fly in the direction I am facing.  If I press forward while looking at the ground, I expect to move closer to the ground.  Not skitter off essentially sideways.  The current Skywing control scheme makes me feel instantly nauseous and I only use it in the Orb Vallis because the map is huge and random players have zero patience before starting the next stage of a bounty.

If it helps, the logic they used was that you're basically a VTOL fighter. Boosted controls like a jet, normal flight is like a helicopter.

To me, at least, that's intuitive for a flight system that allows you to hover in place.

[Gnlstorm]

I think the difference between Archwing and Flying, Archwing is for combat purpose as for flying is only a transport

[Gnlstorm]

Just hope when that day comes people will start to show fairness to Warframe because in the end Warframe and Anthem is a game that need heavy grind and will take ton of the consumer time. TBH in the end Warframe and Anthem is going toward same path. Content/combat/gameplay/lore/cosmetic/Progress after all these it will become daily grind fest.. The only difference is EA/Bioware and DE, EA/Bioware is a Triple A/with alot money and DE a small indie/with limit money but in the end both want their own game to success.

[rune_me]

4 minutes ago, Gnlstorm said:

Just hope when that day comes people will start to show fairness to Warframe because in the end Warframe and Anthem is a game that need heavy grind and will take ton of the consumer time. TBH in the end Warframe and Anthem is going toward same path. Content/combat/gameplay/lore/cosmetic/Progress after all these it will become daily grind fest.. The only difference is EA/Bioware and DE, EA/Bioware is a Triple A/with alot money and DE a small indie/with limit money but in the end both want their own game to success.

Digital Extreme has a 170 employees according to Wikipedia. And they are owned by a giant Chinese corporation. They are obviously not the scale of EA, but they aren't a small indie company either.

[Renginus]

On 2019-01-29 at 5:33 AM, Olphalarepth said:

1. We hardly need any more damage creep. Pay attention to the meta and see how NOTHING can stand against us

2. Meh, don't care

3. Hell no. I'd rather the game focus on it own identity and not let devs waste time and resources on something completely useless. Not very helpful, not marginally helpful, useless

EDIT: to be clear about point 1. It's better to revamp status effect all together instead of another flashy system copied from another game and adapted to wrframe.

no just nerf all the dmg because it is unnecessarily big (?) and do system that a system that the player rewards to do something good and game will change from 

just fire 

to " yoo use brain" when you do this its stronger etc.

[EmberStar]

7 hours ago, Corvid said:

If it helps, the logic they used was that you're basically a VTOL fighter. Boosted controls like a jet, normal flight is like a helicopter.

To me, at least, that's intuitive for a flight system that allows you to hover in place.

No, the flight system skywings have is just stupid.  Helicopters aren't locked at a precise altitude.  And the system worked just fine at launch of PoE, where you could hove in place by simply NOT pressing forward.  Now with the altitude lock and the insane amount of inertia, you slide around like a hot skillet on ice.  Skywing controls are *garbage,* and make me instantly feel sick.  It's not intuitive.  It's not even acceptable.  The idea that someone intentional implemented the current system then sat back and said to themselves "Yeah, that's good.  Let's go with that" completely baffles me.

[Corvid]

1 minute ago, EmberStar said:

No, the flight system skywings have is just stupid.  Helicopters aren't locked at a precise altitude.  And the system worked just fine at launch of PoE, where you could hove in place by simply NOT pressing forward.  Now with the altitude lock and the insane amount of inertia, you slide around like a hot skillet on ice.  Skywing controls are *garbage,* and make me instantly feel sick.  It's not intuitive.  It's not even acceptable.  The idea that someone intentional implemented the current system then sat back and said to themselves "Yeah, that's good.  Let's go with that" completely baffles me.

Erm... aside from maybe some tweaks to the momentum, the way Skywing controls has been the same since PoE launched.

Also, it's not really an altitude lock. You can fly up and down with jump and crouch respectively. I really don't see how "You move laterally with the keys for lateral motion, and vertically with the ones for vertical motion" is unintuitive. For me, it feels natural.

[EmberStar]

4 hours ago, rune_me said:

Digital Extreme has a 170 employees according to Wikipedia. And they are owned by a giant Chinese corporation. They are obviously not the scale of EA, but they aren't a small indie company either.

To me an indie company is any gaming company that isn't part of a major publisher.  The company that purchased majority ownership of DE is an investment holding company.  DE is self-published.  They don't have arrangements with Activision or Ubisloth or EA.  You don't even have to use Steam to play Warframe, they have their own independent launcher.  Honestly I'd say DE has a better claim on being "indie" than any of the companies signing one-year exclusivity deals with Epic right now.

[Corvid]

1 minute ago, EmberStar said:

The company that purchased majority ownership of DE is an investment holding company.

And it's worth noting that the transaction only occurred so Warframe China could happen, IIRC.

I remember the forum panic well.

[EmberStar]

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

Erm... aside from maybe some tweaks to the momentum, the way Skywing controls has been the same since PoE launched.

Also, it's not really an altitude lock. You can fly up and down with jump and crouch respectively. I really don't see how "You move laterally with the keys for lateral motion, and vertically with the ones for vertical motion" is unintuitive. For me, it feels natural.

Because everywhere else in the game if I press "forward," I move in the direction I am facing.  Even in the space Archwing missions.  If I am looking down and press "forward" I expect to go down.  If I am looking up, I expect to go up.  The crouch and jump buttons are NOT intuitive, and painfully slow.  If you're okay with the current controls, good for you.  They're still garbage.

[Corvid]

Just now, EmberStar said:

Because everywhere else in the game if I press "forward," I move in the direction I am facing.

Last I checked, pressing forward while on the ground and facing down doesn't merge you into the floor.

1 minute ago, EmberStar said:

The crouch and jump buttons are NOT intuitive, and painfully slow.  If you're okay with the current controls, good for you.  They're still garbage.

You're the first person I've seen who has a problem with the way it controls. Handling tends to be the issue that gets brought up, which I will agree is flawed, but the way actions are bound to keys is pretty much never brought up as an issue.

If they truly were "Garbage", I'd expect to at least see a few people backing you up on this point by now.

[rune_me]

8 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

To me an indie company is any gaming company that isn't part of a major publisher.  The company that purchased majority ownership of DE is an investment holding company.  DE is self-published.  They don't have arrangements with Activision or Ubisloth or EA.  You don't even have to use Steam to play Warframe, they have their own independent launcher.  Honestly I'd say DE has a better claim on being "indie" than any of the companies signing one-year exclusivity deals with Epic right now.

To me indie means someone who is small and financially interdependent. Being owned by a parent company is to me the opposite of interdependent. 

[EmberStar]

25 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Last I checked, pressing forward while on the ground and facing down doesn't merge you into the floor.

...

If they truly were "Garbage", I'd expect to at least see a few people backing you up on this point by now.

There's the fundamental difference that I can *see* the floor, and my movement follows it in a more instantly intuitive way.  If I'm moving along the floor, I can expect to naturally follow the visible barrier.  If ground movement had the same bizarre design, you'd need to crouch to walk down stairs.  If I'm in the air, there is *no* barrier, and no reason that I should be sliding sideways when facing up or down.  In every other game where there's some form of flight power that I've ever played (meaning a humanoid avatar that can somehow fly, rather than a jet or starfighter,) you move in the direction that you are facing.  Even Anthem does it this way, with the addition of a keybind for switching instantly to a dedicated Hover mode.  Which I barely used, but I'm pretty sure that even in Anthem's Hover mode, you still move up or down if you are facing that way.  You just do it very, very slowly.

There's still the fact that the movement controls behave *differently* in Skywing mode than any other implementation of Archwing.  Even Titania uses the *normal* Archwing controls, and flies in the direction she is facing.  She doesn't need to use Jump and Crouch to change altitude, she just has to look up and then *go* that way.

And I don't expect to see anyone backing me up in this thread, because this is primarily a thread comparing Warframe to Anthem.  My assertion that Skywing controls are terrible isn't the reason people are reading the thread.  And most people seem to only use Skywing as a form of fast travel and otherwise ignore it.  They just mostly ignore Archwing outright.  Aside from being required to own an Archwing to complete junctions and The War Within, it's completely possible to do the existing Archwing missions once to unlock the starchart and then never touch them again.

[OniDax]

8 hours ago, Corvid said:

If it helps, the logic they used was that you're basically a VTOL fighter. Boosted controls like a jet, normal flight is like a helicopter.

To me, at least, that's intuitive for a flight system that allows you to hover in place.

The boosted flight model is awful, imo, because you drift alot because of the inertia, and you don't move naturally when boosting. Again, you're not moving on a curve when turning. Your character just turns in the direction of movement and the archwing drifts in that direction. It's intuitive, but the boosted flight isn't natural. If DE would get rid of the inertia and improve the boosted flight model, then I think it would be better than what's in Anthem.