Anthem and what Warframe can learn from it

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

I disagree. Advertising in Time Square was not cheap I assure you. But just imagine if DE hired Blomkamp for a Warframe short hyping the new war. 

IMO it would be better money spent. Just watch this. I mean this is awesome. 

I would rather the quality of the game improve, so that when DE goes big with their marketing, the people who respond to it will download a Warframe whose quality justifies such grandiose marketing. Right now, Warframe isn't at that level, not from a gameplay mechanics point of view, not from a graphics/animation/sound design point of view, and not from a storytelling point of view. I think Warframe needs to develop some more before we're at that point.

Edited February 14, 2019 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

I would rather the quality of the game improve, so that when DE goes big with their marketing, the people who respond to it will download a Warframe whose quality justifies such grandiose marketing. Right now, Warframe isn't at that level, not from a gameplay mechanics point of view, not from a graphics/animation/sound design point of view, and not from a storytelling point of view. I think Warframe needs to develop some more before we're at that point.

Agreed. Sure I can get behind that in principle. But still, it's fun to imagine..what if...

Edited February 14, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Rakosta_Kai]

On 2019-02-12 at 7:18 AM, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

sweeet

By Blomkamp 

It's pretty nifty...Kinda reminds me of the quality of the teaser opening for DCUO.

...Hopefully Anthem fares a bit better of course..

[BETAOPTICS]

While some ideas may sound intuitively neat, it is useful to consider the game on how they are alike but also how they are unalike. What does Warframe do differently gameplay mechanically from Anthem? And visa versa? Anthem is a game that is heavier and grounded in the theme as well as gameplay design philosophy wise. Enemies in Anthem do not die by the hundreds on mass, the combat is slower but combo's make the game flashier and faster to compensate.

As a concept in Warframe combo's could be a fun idea, but it could also complicate a game already perceived heavily complex even further. Now the math junkies among us (myself included) love this, but I know that new players may feel intimidated by it. It is a similar problem with Path of Exile and its skill tree. Too much information and you get what psychologists call information overload (when human brains get too much data from the environment, rather than finding exactly what they find, their brains are overwhelmed and struggle to find a preferred path).

Similarly while I do like different unique movements for Javelins and Warframes conceptually, what makes Anthem different from Warframe is that the former game is more fixed with the Javelins while brand new Warframes come out around once in every 3 months and there are 3 Javelins but around ~35 Warframes. As a software engineering student I can not make exact evaluation on the amount of work animation and graphical design and visualization takes, but knowing the field from my own specialization I can imagine it is a lot of work. In fact I know it is.

No wonder Geoff is struggling to get Prime trailers out at all with the amount of work he already has on his plate. Additional work for the already overworked animation team would be unhealthy for them, bad for the game ultimately (Warframes and other content would be set back for some time), unless of course they would hire a lot of animators. Which might sound necessary anyway, but if that work is their motive, is it wise to higher someone for such a short time? And outsourcing it would be expensive. So I do not see how it they could do that logistically. I like the idea, but I do not think it is realistic for Warframe.

Now am I saying by all of this that there is nothing Warframe can learn form Anthem? Certainly not. And from what I've seen, DE is not afraid of learning more and self-development, and they treat Anthem fondly as a competition and a lesson, as well as an another video game in the gaming industry. All I am saying is that we need to think hard contextually what those lessons are, what and how they could be adapted and implemented, and what might sound intuitively awesome but might not work in another game. I think good game design recognizes strengths and limitations, just like a well adjusted person can recognize their strengths and short-comings, things they are good at and things they could still improve upon.

Edited February 14, 2019 by BETAOPTICS

[EmberStar]

6 minutes ago, BETAOPTICS said:

Similarly while I do like different unique movements for Javelins and Warframes conceptually, what makes Anthem different from Warframe is that the former game is more fixed with the Javelins while brand new Warframes come out around once in every 3 months and there are 3 Javelins but around ~35 Warframes.

Just a correction, there are four Javelins at launch.  (Ranger, the balanced one.  Interceptor, the fast one.  Colossus, the tank one.  And Storm, the wizard one.)  Bioware have apparently also been dropping hints that additional suits might be possible at some later time.  I don't know about the multiplayer for Andromeda or Dragon Age:  Inquisition.  But the multiplayer for Mass Effect 3 actually ended up getting a fairly steady flow of new playable characters.  At the moment, the only real hint we've gotten is the leaked cash store page, which showed cosmetic items (and only a handful, since I think it was only the one image.)

Even if they are adding new Javelin designs at some point, Warframe has a massive head start in terms of quantity.  Anthem would have to release new suits in bursts (three or four at a time) multiple times per year to have any hope of catching up.  There's also the question of how additional suits would be unlocked - you start with one, and unlock three more as level-up perks.  If they add more than four then it's likely that you'd have to choose *which* four you wanted, and any suits above that on a single pilot character would likely be cash store upgrades.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2019-02-13 at 2:49 AM, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/anthemgame/status/1095322103992147968 

ok damn. Blomkamp needs to hook Warframe up on the live action front.

No, please no. We dont need home made grade shorts for WF. That Anthem short was cringeworthy at best with some of the cheapest looking settings I've seen. Sad to see it is Blomkamp behind it because his movies are mostly masterpieces. That short is the opposite though.

They should have settled with a CGI short with no cringeworthy actors or low-grade cosplay environments and javelins.

[BETAOPTICS]

24 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Just a correction, there are four Javelins at launch.  (Ranger, the balanced one.  Interceptor, the fast one.  Colossus, the tank one.  And Storm, the wizard one.)  Bioware have apparently also been dropping hints that additional suits might be possible at some later time.  I don't know about the multiplayer for Andromeda or Dragon Age:  Inquisition.  But the multiplayer for Mass Effect 3 actually ended up getting a fairly steady flow of new playable characters.  At the moment, the only real hint we've gotten is the leaked cash store page, which showed cosmetic items (and only a handful, since I think it was only the one image.)

Even if they are adding new Javelin designs at some point, Warframe has a massive head start in terms of quantity.  Anthem would have to release new suits in bursts (three or four at a time) multiple times per year to have any hope of catching up.  There's also the question of how additional suits would be unlocked - you start with one, and unlock three more as level-up perks.  If they add more than four then it's likely that you'd have to choose *which* four you wanted, and any suits above that on a single pilot character would likely be cash store upgrades.

Probably there will be more Javelins at some point I could imagine. It is trying to tap into the same market of power fantasy within its own universe, and part of that fantasy is reliving the moments in a different way so to speak. But I doubt big gaming companies even with that much resources (economy and human resources) will launch them at the rate Warframe does, those DLC's will come in the following years.

You and I agree I think. The point I was going for is the one you write about as well. Anthem is built to take into account characterbuilding with movement wheres Warframes more hectic, agile and supernatural movement system is not. With the headstart Warframe has to character quantity wise, the amount of work ahead for the animation team would be enormous. Knowing how much work they already have, I do not think they could manage.

Edited February 14, 2019 by BETAOPTICS

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

26 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No, please no. We dont need home made grade shorts for WF. That Anthem short was cringeworthy at best with some of the cheapest looking settings I've seen. Sad to see it is Blomkamp behind it because his movies are mostly masterpieces. That short is the opposite though.

They should have settled with a CGI short with no cringeworthy actors or low-grade cosplay environments and javelins.

And Wierdframe isn't cringy?! Lol come on. 

Different strokes for different folks tho. Me and thousands and thousands of others thought this was awesome. Including some of the devs at DE.  I can't wait to play this game. 

Furthermore at 2:56 I was just imagining Nyx in the middle of that whirlpool. And the bald lady was the Tenno saying "the void swims through your mind, it knows you, it knows us all." freaking cool.

That's said I hope this game is successful because I dig Bioware. And I hope it makes Warframe better in the end. 

Edited February 14, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

What I'm still trying to figure out is where the comparisons are coming from.  Maybe it's just me, but that game seemed more like Mass Effect than Warframe.

 

 

[EmberStar]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

What I'm still trying to figure out is where the comparisons are coming from.  Maybe it's just me, but that game seemed more like Mass Effect than Warframe.

 

 

Because you spend most of it controlling a more-or-less human scale suit of power armor.  (Rather than mecha, or a tank, or a battleship.)  In terms of gameplay, I've seen some people say it's more comparable to Destiny.  Movement is a bit slower paced, with only the Interceptor coming close to the hyper-kinetic movement speed of most Warframes.  Even slowpokes like Rhino would leave most Javelins in the dust.  Combat is also slower paced, with "bullet spongy" enemies that take a lot of bullets to kill.  But basically, the point of comparison is "power-armor with super powers, agile movement, and guns."

In terms of lore... really not a lot to compare yet.  Although the impression I got from the demo is that the world of Anthem is actually more towards a "fantasy world where humans exist" than sci-fi.  Javelins look technological, but each one is apparently hand-crafted in a process that's supposedly closer to forging a sword than assembling an electronic device.  "The Anthem" of the title is a mystical power that can warp and reshape reality, and Javelins are constructed in a way that allows them to tap into that mystical energy.  (And in the case of the Storm suit, to focus it directly as literal bolts of lightning and fireball attacks, and shields of solidified air that can block enemy bullets.)

Basically, the setting is closer to "Dragon Age with power armor" than the more sci-fi oriented Destiny, Warframe, or Mass Effect worlds.  Among other things, space travel or even "normal" airplanes are basically impossible, because of a bizarre wind-shear that prevents anything from going above a certain altitude.  It's basically a "lore reason" for the game mechanic that prevents you from flying up and over the "walls" of the map.  Sort of like the shield walls in the Plains of Eidolon or the lethal Stormwall in the Orb Vallis.  If you try to go too high the game world slams you back down to a lower altitude to make sure you stay inside the play area.

[OniDax]

10 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Because you spend most of it controlling a more-or-less human scale suit of power armor.  (Rather than mecha, or a tank, or a battleship.)  In terms of gameplay, I've seen some people say it's more comparable to Destiny.  Movement is a bit slower paced, with only the Interceptor coming close to the hyper-kinetic movement speed of most Warframes.  Even slowpokes like Rhino would leave most Javelins in the dust.  Combat is also slower paced, with "bullet spongy" enemies that take a lot of bullets to kill.  But basically, the point of comparison is "power-armor with super powers, agile movement, and guns."

In terms of lore... really not a lot to compare yet.  Although the impression I got from the demo is that the world of Anthem is actually more towards a "fantasy world where humans exist" than sci-fi.  Javelins look technological, but each one is apparently hand-crafted in a process that's supposedly closer to forging a sword than assembling an electronic device.  "The Anthem" of the title is a mystical power that can warp and reshape reality, and Javelins are constructed in a way that allows them to tap into that mystical energy.  (And in the case of the Storm suit, to focus it directly as literal bolts of lightning and fireball attacks, and shields of solidified air that can block enemy bullets.)

Basically, the setting is closer to "Dragon Age with power armor" than the more sci-fi oriented Destiny, Warframe, or Mass Effect worlds.  Among other things, space travel or even "normal" airplanes are basically impossible, because of a bizarre wind-shear that prevents anything from going above a certain altitude.  It's basically a "lore reason" for the game mechanic that prevents you from flying up and over the "walls" of the map.  Sort of like the shield walls in the Plains of Eidolon or the lethal Stormwall in the Orb Vallis.  If you try to go too high the game world slams you back down to a lower altitude to make sure you stay inside the play area.

Why are you calling Rhino a slowpoke?

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

And Wierdframe isn't cringy?! Lol come on. 

Different strokes for different folks tho. Me and thousands and thousands of others thought this was awesome. Including some of the devs at DE.  I can't wait to play this game. 

Furthermore at 2:56 I was just imagining Nyx in the middle of that whirlpool. And the bald lady was the Tenno saying "the void swims through your mind, it knows you, it knows us all." freaking cool.

That's said I hope this game is successful because I dig Bioware. And I hope it makes Warframe better in the end. 

I dont know if WF would be cringy, most likely it would as a live action short. Re-read what I said earlier. It isnt about the game or the setting, just the short movie being horrible.

[EmberStar]

18 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Why are you calling Rhino a slowpoke?

Because I think that Rhino's base movement speed is slightly slower than average for a Warframe.  (Part of how he's setup.  Just like Nehza has a naturally slightly higher base speed, or Khora's passive allows her to move faster as long as Venari is alive.)  I think Frost might also be slightly slower than normal.  My point was that even the *slowest* Warframes are nearly as fast as Anthem's Interceptor on the ground.  Probably faster, in the hands of someone who can deal with bullet jumping and sliding and super-leaping around while also actually still being able to shoot anything.  (From what I remember, a Javelin can move fast *or* shoot, but usually not both at the same time.)

[DanteYoda]

On 2019-02-15 at 9:12 AM, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

And Wierdframe isn't cringy?! Lol come on. 

Different strokes for different folks tho. Me and thousands and thousands of others thought this was awesome. Including some of the devs at DE.  I can't wait to play this game. 

Furthermore at 2:56 I was just imagining Nyx in the middle of that whirlpool. And the bald lady was the Tenno saying "the void swims through your mind, it knows you, it knows us all." freaking cool.

That's said I hope this game is successful because I dig Bioware. And I hope it makes Warframe better in the end. 

Funny how some people can't just like both...

[EmberStar]

2 hours ago, DanteYoda said:

Funny how some people can't just like both...

Compromise?  Co-existence?  Heretic!  If you like Star Trek, you are *forbidden* to enjoy Star Wars!  Do not cross the streams! 

I am completely kidding.  I like both.  And Babylon 5, Blake's Seven, John Pertwee and Tom Baker era Doctor Who, and Firefly, and Farscape.  I also like Primeval and Terra Nova *and* Jurassic Park!  (And also play the singleplayer mode of Ark:  Survival Evolved.  Because pet dinosaurs!  Even if most of them are fantasy versions.)

My hesitance for Anthem is because EA, I don't trust the monetization, EA, I don't know what their plan for DLC/updates is, and in the public demo combat was meh and flight was frustratingly poor.  Also, EA.  A company I don't trust as far as I could throw their corporate headquarters.

Edited February 16, 2019 by EmberStar

[xXIcyBladeXx]

This thread is silly.

 

 

 

 

Don't worry so am I.

[(PSN)bighugesumo-king]

Looking back on this thread, how the hell we thought warframe could learn stuff from Anthem while its really the other way around. Judging from every review and streaming i watched Anthem did not learn a whole lot from warframe. Of course at launch a game as service will lack the depth of a older game like warframe but it literally has no waypoints, no chat, weapons all feel the same just with different stats, missions are all samey, story is thin. I almost feel sorry for thinking warframe could learn something from Anthem. I wish devs can improve the game before Ea pull the plug on em but warframe in my book remains the best looter shooter BY FAR.

[--END--Rikutatis]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)bighugesumo-king said:

Looking back on this thread, how the hell we thought warframe could learn stuff from Anthem while its really the other way around. Judging from every review and streaming i watched Anthem did not learn a whole lot from warframe. Of course at launch a game as service will lack the depth of a older game like warframe but it literally has no waypoints, no chat, weapons all feel the same just with different stats, missions are all samey, story is thin. I almost feel sorry for thinking warframe could learn something from Anthem. I wish devs can improve the game before Ea pull the plug on em but warframe in my book remains the best looter shooter BY FAR.

I put that part in bold because that's a main point most reviewers are forgetting. Destiny 1 and 2, Division, Warframe, they were all very thin on content and buggy when they launched for the very first time. It's a new IP, it'll take time before the game is fleshed out. Honestly this is what I was expecting. Good core gameplay, but very thin on content and probably kinda buggy. Even if Anthem completely fails (which I don't think it will) there's still things Warframe could learn from Anthem, like difficulty modes is the main one, and universal drop tables are pretty nice as well. And just as a disclaimer, I didn't buy Anthem and I don't intend to, I don't think it's the game for me. I'm waiting for the Division 2. But that doesn't keep me from appreciating a few things they have done right.

What disappointed me the most about Anthem was actually the story, which most people are saying is very short and pretty bland/boring. I was already expecting that, because Bioware lost all their great writers long ago, but I guess a part of me was still hoping for a good story. That was the deal breaker for me. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

26 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

put that part in bold because that's a main point most reviewers are forgetting. Destiny 1 and 2, Division, Warframe, they were all very thin on content and buggy when they launched for the very first time. It's a new IP, it'll take time before the game is fleshed out. Honestly this is what I was expecting. Good core gameplay, but very thin on content and probably kinda buggy. Even if Anthem completely fails (which I don't think it will) there's still things Warframe could learn from Anthem, like difficulty modes is the main one, and universal drop tables are pretty nice as well.

This^ I play both. I'm enjoying both. I'd like both to succeed. Theres a lot both can learn from each other. 

 

Just saying.. it's awesome to be alive today!

Edited February 18, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

I put that part in bold because that's a main point most reviewers are forgetting. Destiny 1 and 2, Division, Warframe, they were all very thin on content and buggy when they launched for the very first time. It's a new IP, it'll take time before the game is fleshed out. Honestly this is what I was expecting. Good core gameplay, but very thin on content and probably kinda buggy. Even if Anthem completely fails (which I don't think it will) there's still things Warframe could learn from Anthem, like difficulty modes is the main one, and universal drop tables are pretty nice as well. And just as a disclaimer, I didn't buy Anthem and I don't intend to, I don't think it's the game for me. I'm waiting for the Division 2. But that doesn't keep me from appreciating a few things they have done right.

What disappointed me the most about Anthem was actually the story, which most people are saying is very short and pretty bland/boring. I was already expecting that, because Bioware lost all their great writers long ago, but I guess a part of me was still hoping for a good story. That was the deal breaker for me. 

That just isnt acceptable though after the years it has taken to actually get Anthem out the door into a 1.0 state. There is no reason or viable excuse to release a game that doesnt even last a week before people start to comment on how it lacks content etc.

And you cant really compare it to a game such as WF, because WF was released in beta, for free, with a far lower buy-in ceiling than a 60 buck AAA title. It is also not exactly good to compare them to Dest1 and 2 or Division either, those games arent exactly prime examples of rectification post- 1.0. I mean compare the numbers and WF knocks them out of the ballpark Darth Vader style. None of them have managed to attract or keep players like DE has with WF. Those 3 games have gone from cold to lukewarm at best.

Excuses for Anthem recieving bad reviews just doesnt hold, it isnt like they are trying a new concept where others havent failed or succeeded before. There are plenty of examples of what to and what not to do out there. BW and EA simply decided to head in there blindfolded by the dollar sign, hoping the BW story hype over the years could bring in porential buyers. It was more or less bound to get the reactions it did since EA is too involved in it all.

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

1 hour ago, (PS4)bighugesumo-king said:

Looking back on this thread, how the hell we thought warframe could learn stuff from Anthem while its really the other way around. Judging from every review and streaming i watched Anthem did not learn a whole lot from warframe. Of course at launch a game as service will lack the depth of a older game like warframe but it literally has no waypoints, no chat, weapons all feel the same just with different stats, missions are all samey, story is thin. I almost feel sorry for thinking warframe could learn something from Anthem. I wish devs can improve the game before Ea pull the plug on em but warframe in my book remains the best looter shooter BY FAR.

Pretty much what I said 12 pages ago...

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Excuses for Anthem recieving bad reviews just doesnt hold,

Not all reviews were "bad".  There are many streamers that love the game. Anthem will have a select following much like Warframe does. And with the Anthem schedule this year there will be many (free) updates to Anthem. Oh look Anthem actually will have dates for said releases...wink wink..where are the release dates for the actual content in WAITframe, New War? How bout Rail Jack?.....oh yeah soooon. ...#amiright.. LOL

Edited February 18, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Viges]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)RDeschain82 said:

Not all reviews were "bad".  There are many streamers that love the game. Anthem will have a select following much like Warframe does. And with the Anthem schedule this year there will be many updates to Anthem.

Yea, the problem is - it won't be enough for EA. Especially after Apex. So be ready for maintenance mode in several months or so.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

4 minutes ago, Viges said:

Apex

Different games, different players. Much like WF and Anthem. But can still learn from each other. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[--END--Rikutatis]

54 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

...

And you cant really compare it to a game such as WF, because WF was released in beta, for free, with a far lower buy-in ceiling than a 60 buck AAA title. It is also not exactly good to compare them to Dest1 and 2 or Division either, those games arent exactly prime examples of rectification post- 1.0. I mean compare the numbers and WF knocks them out of the ballpark Darth Vader style. None of them have managed to attract or keep players like DE has with WF. Those 3 games have gone from cold to lukewarm at best.

What? Your description there is incredibly biased. Destiny 1 and Division 1 both actually improved quite a lot from their original launch state and had a really strong following, specially Destiny. What "killed" the Destiny franchise was actually Destiny 2, Destiny 1 was loved by a lot of people. In fact Warframe wasn't even on anyone's radar until Destiny shot themselves on the foot with that second game.