Buried Debts: Hotfix 24.5.2

[[DE]Megan]

22 minutes ago, MangoSlic3 said:

So... controller doesnt work anymore after this hotfix.. i can move cursor around in menus but thatss it, cant even push start to open the menu. controller is fine as it works with all my other games

 

12 minutes ago, Zambra93 said:

I'm in the same situation... 😭 I can move the cursor in the menu, but that's it. I also tried to "troubleshoot" the controller but it won't get back to work...

If you're playing through Steam (which I believe you both are), rebooting your PC has proven to fix this controller issue.

[Genoscythe]

il y a 18 minutes, [DE]Megan a dit :

Quoting myself here to shed some light on this hot topic that is currently being discussed within this thread.

To be blunt, this is an exploit. The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm, and it was never intended for players to completely bypass phases of the Exploiter Orb. Going fast is fun, we totally get it. But going fast shouldn't sacrifice the hard work that has been made, or the proper intentions of phases/mechanics.

Another large part of this feedback is also the continued Matchmaking issues for the Exploiter Orb, that sometimes result in an inability to continue the fight. These Matchmaking issues are our current top priority to resolve ASAP.

Really appreciate the work of the team here, they sure put a lot of work into it and the personality of the orbs is pretty damn neat, first we got the overcaring mother, now the abusive stepmom straight from the 1920s. While I undestand that this boss fight is supposed to be different, I still think it has a big flaw, which is the fact that no matter how good everything you grinded for in this game is, the fight remains exactly the same.

I mean warframe is all about getting new frames and guns and making them more effective, now you gave us a boss that:

1. Ignores all abilites

2. Is only marginally influenced by damage

3. Has a fight that ALWAYS plays out the same, no matter what

OK, while there are some abilities that can help you in the fight (gara, oberon), I don't get why you are trying to make this fight essentially a 10 minute canister-throwing contest. Warframe has so many gameplay possibilities to offer and you literally don't use any of the mechanics the game has to offer apart from the most basic things: running, shooting and healing. The fact that player were use these exploits shows how in the end it all boils down to "get the loot as fast as you can and repeat". It makes grinding for gear and getting better feel pointless again, because nothing has an effect on it, anyway. Any player with an oberon that has 150% strenght, a streamline mod and the rage mod or energy plates and a snipetron with 6 mods can solo this fight. Why don't we get to USE what we have?

[Nyatalia]

13 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Quoting myself here to shed some light on this hot topic that is currently being discussed within this thread.

To be blunt, this is an exploit. The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm, and it was never intended for players to completely bypass phases of the Exploiter Orb. Going fast is fun, we totally get it. But going fast shouldn't sacrifice the hard work that has been made, or the proper intentions of phases/mechanics.

Another large part of this feedback is also the continued Matchmaking issues for the Exploiter Orb, that sometimes result in an inability to continue the fight. These Matchmaking issues are our current top priority to resolve ASAP.

People wouldn't have to look for ways to do it if the mechanics weren't so dull and long because they can and no other reason, i understand that the team works hard on the boss fights but that's not an excuse for the fight being as tedious as it is, tweaks are needed, and you guys need to find a way to add warframes into the equation, making everything immune to warframe abilities does not make things hard or interesting it makes them tedious and boring, i understand why a boss would be immune, but why the rest of the enemies too? 

[MissTennoSWarframeMaid]

hace 14 minutos, [DE]Megan dijo:

The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm.

Well its different, but not really a niche idea, having a giant spider whit movement and hitboxes bugged, also the core mechanic is, pick up a rock, throw a rock, think about the thermia, pick it up, throw it, not really a hardcore mechanic, about thinking OH MY GOOD THAT'S A REALLY GOOD GAME MECHANIC WE FEEL SO PROUD ABOUT US, WE SHOULD KEEP THIS HARD WORK FOR FUTURE BOSSES SO OUR COMMUNITY SHALL FEEL HAPPY ABOUT  wasting 15 minutes EVERYTIME on every SINGLE run for, unnecesary unskippable animations and teddious chatter that become a nuisance after... like 20 straight runs. not to mention that the loot tabble is not that... great. nor even that its a about to get nerfed by a half...

Just give us mounted gattler guns attached to the ground and make us aim to the damn thing legs and shoot it out till's dead fur sure.

and a mechanic to deploy them doing some hacking... because, that would be  A mechanic. (or atleast that's what i think.)

[HyokaChan]

21 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Quoting myself here to shed some light on this hot topic that is currently being discussed within this thread.

To be blunt, this is an exploit. The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm, and it was never intended for players to completely bypass phases of the Exploiter Orb. Going fast is fun, we totally get it. But going fast shouldn't sacrifice the hard work that has been made, or the proper intentions of phases/mechanics.

Another large part of this feedback is also the continued Matchmaking issues for the Exploiter Orb, that sometimes result in an inability to continue the fight. These Matchmaking issues are our current top priority to resolve ASAP.

No comment on door problems? That's not about matchmaking, that's about just loading the map.

[Absolute_Kriatura]

10 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Quoting myself here to shed some light on this hot topic that is currently being discussed within this thread.

To be blunt, this is an exploit. The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm, and it was never intended for players to completely bypass phases of the Exploiter Orb. Going fast is fun, we totally get it. But going fast shouldn't sacrifice the hard work that has been made, or the proper intentions of phases/mechanics.

Another large part of this feedback is also the continued Matchmaking issues for the Exploiter Orb, that sometimes result in an inability to continue the fight. These Matchmaking issues are our current top priority to resolve ASAP.

Then this only means you have a serious problem with your testing Q&A team not focused on things that really matters because I refuse to believe they are playing the same game as us, players found about Nova/Octavia during the 1st couple minutes since the battle was implemented, a proper testing team should have found such supposed "exploit" days if not weeks before it was implemented, sent an alert to the devs so for them to re-think what to do properly imho. I think you are all there busy as hell but lately some stupid bugs bypassed the line. Maybe it's time to hit the breaks, take a deep breath, fix whatever is ruining the fun for everyone instead of keep rushing forward forgetting all the broken things that are left behind.

[German]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb [DE]Megan:

 

If you're playing through Steam (which I believe you both are), rebooting your PC has proven to fix this controller issue.

Getting stuck sometimes in the R1 ability menu after transference still isn't fixed. Please, it's really disrupting gameplay. Also, I didn't see it mentioned in the patchnotes so I assume aiming still doesn't work when in Hildryn's 4 and just opens chat?

[E7na]

16 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Going fast is fun, we totally get it. But going fast shouldn't sacrifice the hard work that has been made, or the proper intentions of phases/mechanics.

This fix should have come with some drastic and needed changes to this fight, then. Especially phase 2.

Half the time on both phases, the canisters do not register hitting the ice in phase one, or adding heat in phase two. This is monitor-punching levels of frustrating. Phase one is too long and repetitive. Half the time is spent waiting for the orb to come off the wall. Phase two is the same thing. Just standing around waiting for fractures is not fun. And having your progress ruined when a single raknoid gets through or your canister just didn't do anything at all is infuriating. The fight is just too long and repetitive and buggy. I wouldn't mind a long fight if the chances of getting the reward weren't so abysmally low.

I applaud doing something new, but you need to understand that, for a boss designed to be farmed into the ground, making it take so long and having little to no variety and be as buggy as it is, is exceedingly boring and just makes me not want to do it, no matter what the reward might be.

[Zola5]

Thanks for fixing the nova skip, now we can finaly enjoy the first phase before crashing in between the phases.

Some people will not like wasting even more time before crashing in the loading between the phases. 

But I say to them stop caring so much about loot and enjoy the parts of the gameplay that work!

[Iv99an19]

Infinite loading screen after completion of phase 1 of the exploiter orb, only way out is either alt+f4 when running solo, leaving the squad when playing in a team.

Exploiter orb will never spawn any thermia ruptures, heat builds up too slowly and raknoids spawn & move too quickly to be able to complete phase 3 without ruptures.

Waypoints are still bugged, showing incorrect paths until entering a new room, been this way for nearly a year now.

Hildryn is unable to activate her Balefire Chargers when using Aegis Storm, having a shield drain when using aegis storm is stupid, considering it's the only way for her to move at a reasonable speed, and restricting her to only using balefire in the first place is also stupid

The water in the tunnel that leads to the vay hek boss won't stop flowing after he is defeated resulting in players being stuck at the boss arena, with no way of leaving aside from aborting.

But yea, DE's got their priorities straight, got to fix those "exploits" that add any form of variety to the meta, because how dare we players actually have efficient setups to speed up tediously long tasks.

 

[BabySshark]

We need a better drop rate for Oxium please and thanks

[-TAS-CyrusVirus]

Still not able to forma a K-Drive..

[b4timert]

If you want to make that you need to destroy 1 vent at a time at least fix the hitbox(make them bigger) or thermia one of them isnt working sometimes. i hit a vent nothing no defrost.

[Snake326]

Fix the bug where after finishing phase one, you're locked in the transition room between Valis and the Phase 1 room, it's been almost one week and it's still here...

[ElRomero]

11 hours ago, mikakor said:

no shi*t sherlock, i couldn't tell. also, no. it takes three thermal canister ot melt one vent and being able to shot it.

It takes two Sherlock. 😉

[ElRomero]

12 hours ago, ViniXV said:

This new update is crashing my computer...

That was part of the hotfix so you would not get the Doors Not opening bug after phase one of Exploiter Orb fight. 😉

[TheFranss]

6 hours ago, slotschii said:

dude fix your keyboard...

Well excuse me if I like to type stuff on my phone past bed time

[KosmicKerman]

50 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

Quoting myself here to shed some light on this hot topic that is currently being discussed within this thread.

To be blunt, this is an exploit. The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm, and it was never intended for players to completely bypass phases of the Exploiter Orb. Going fast is fun, we totally get it. But going fast shouldn't sacrifice the hard work that has been made, or the proper intentions of phases/mechanics.

Another large part of this feedback is also the continued Matchmaking issues for the Exploiter Orb, that sometimes result in an inability to continue the fight. These Matchmaking issues are our current top priority to resolve ASAP.

This is understandable and most of the community gets this but:

1) Even with the phase 1 skip, the fight still takes a long time. One might even say too long since it can’t really be optimized  

2) Due to the P2P nature of the game, the fight can take even longer due to canisters not hitting the orb during phase 1 due to latency or packet loss from the host. This is something which may not have been obvious when DE tested in house.

3) There are serious bugs in the fight and in Warframe in general which can cause players to lose progress/rewards. Making the fight take longer just exacerbates this issue. I’ve personally lost all rewards following a tridolon bounty due to buggy matchmaking. Supports response was that I could ask for one thing out of the rewards. These sort of bugs and responses color the community’s responses to these types of “bug fixes.”

[BrenBlaze]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Quoting myself here to shed some light on this hot topic that is currently being discussed within this thread.

To be blunt, this is an exploit. The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm, and it was never intended for players to completely bypass phases of the Exploiter Orb. Going fast is fun, we totally get it. But going fast shouldn't sacrifice the hard work that has been made, or the proper intentions of phases/mechanics.

Another large part of this feedback is also the continued Matchmaking issues for the Exploiter Orb, that sometimes result in an inability to continue the fight. These Matchmaking issues are our current top priority to resolve ASAP.

Isn't this what video games have always been, where people play YOUR games in THEIR own way. You had imagined the fight one way, players reimagined it, but it seems you were offended by this. Shame you had to ruin one of the better bosses due to pride alone.

[Thundervision]

58 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

To be blunt, this is an exploit. The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm, and it was never intended for players to completely bypass phases of the Exploiter Orb.

A wise man once said:

Spoiler

 

«To fight the Exploiter, one must become the exploiter!»

 

...sorry, exploits are indeed exploits, but I just couldn't resist myself

[SordidDreams]

7 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Well you're not really. See the way players work, they will choose the most efficient route possible, that's just how it is. So by moving the rewards from a certain element of the game, you make damn sure that element isn't played anymore, even if it's considered fun by people.

So when you said you liked the Eidolons, what you really meant was you liked the Eidolons' drops? Shouldn't you be in support of moving those drops to a less cancerous boss fight, then?

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

To be blunt, this is an exploit. The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm, and it was never intended for players to completely bypass phases of the Exploiter Orb. Going fast is fun, we totally get it. But going fast shouldn't sacrifice the hard work that has been made, or the proper intentions of phases/mechanics.

Going fast is supposed to be the proper intention of phases and mechanics. I'm very sorry that you feel the team's hard work was being wasted, but the reality is that it was wasted not by players trying to go fast, it was wasted by whoever decided to design that fight to be slow. It's like opening a Blockbuster and then complaining that all the people using Netflix are wasting all your work; yes, the work was wasted, but not by anyone else, it was wasted by your decision to do something unwise. The whole point of a boss fight is learning the mechanics and how to do it efficiently. That's where the fun comes from in video games. The vent 'exploit' was the only learnable thing in that fight, with its removal there is now nothing left to discover and optimize and therefore no more fun to be had. It's no longer a game, it's just a chore. Intentionally designing a boss fight so that there's nothing learnable about it? That's... beyond words permissible on this forum, frankly.

Saying that "going fast is fun but it shouldn't sacrifice the team's hard work" is saying that you're knowingly and willingly sacrificing the enjoyment of millions of players on the altar of a boss fight designer's ego so that they don't have to face up to the fact that they made a bad boss fight. To be blunt, as game developers your job is to please your players, not yourselves. So please, tell your team to swallow their pride and revert the awful 'fix'.

It took what, four years to get you guys to change an awful decision with respect to vacuum on pets? I'm rather hoping in this case it's going to go a bit faster.

[DrBorris]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Quoting myself here to shed some light on this hot topic that is currently being discussed within this thread.

To be blunt, this is an exploit. The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm, and it was never intended for players to completely bypass phases of the Exploiter Orb. Going fast is fun, we totally get it. But going fast shouldn't sacrifice the hard work that has been made, or the proper intentions of phases/mechanics.

Another large part of this feedback is also the continued Matchmaking issues for the Exploiter Orb, that sometimes result in an inability to continue the fight. These Matchmaking issues are our current top priority to resolve ASAP.

I think the reason that some players are more upset about the removal of the exploit is the horrendous grind for Ephemera. Assuming 20 minute runs, 50% of people to get either Ephemera will take within 4 hours of grinding. This is fine, pretty standard for Warframe. The problem is that for 10% of players it is going to take over 12 hours of farming for one of either Ephemera. Do you want a specific Ephemera? Half will have it in a little under eight hours but that unlucky 10% will take over 26(!) hours. And getting both? Let's not go there.

 

Grinding is fine, getting lucky is fine, but for the most part the difference between "average luck" and "unlucky" is under three hours in the rest of the game. The reason people want to min/max this fight so hard is because you all at DE are asking for an incredible amount of our time. Getting an Ephemera should not be a "hey, I got lucky" it should be a "Look at this thing I worked for". Yall at DE are generally pretty good at hitting a fair balance, but this time I think there was a miscalculation.

[Aenris]

hace 1 hora, Genoscythe dijo:

Really appreciate the work of the team here, they sure put a lot of work into it and the personality of the orbs is pretty damn neat, first we got the overcaring mother, now the abusive stepmom straight from the 1920s. While I undestand that this boss fight is supposed to be different, I still think it has a big flaw, which is the fact that no matter how good everything you grinded for in this game is, the fight remains exactly the same.

I mean warframe is all about getting new frames and guns and making them more effective, now you gave us a boss that:

1. Ignores all abilites

2. Is only marginally influenced by damage

3. Has a fight that ALWAYS plays out the same, no matter what

OK, while there are some abilities that can help you in the fight (gara, oberon), I don't get why you are trying to make this fight essentially a 10 minute canister-throwing contest. Warframe has so many gameplay possibilities to offer and you literally don't use any of the mechanics the game has to offer apart from the most basic things: running, shooting and healing. The fact that player were use these exploits shows how in the end it all boils down to "get the loot as fast as you can and repeat". It makes grinding for gear and getting better feel pointless again, because nothing has an effect on it, anyway. Any player with an oberon that has 150% strenght, a streamline mod and the rage mod or energy plates and a snipetron with 6 mods can solo this fight. Why don't we get to USE what we have?

I believe That was the point.

Look, in the case of Profit Taker, i feel you're tied to use certain frames and certain weapons to be effective. All the grind you did helps you in dealing with the boss in a more effective way. Thing is, Exploiter orb is different. It's an event-boss only, with a Warframe drop. It seems [DE] intentions is to be accessible, and that's why the fight relies on not needing tons of grinded equipment: so it can be fought by a bigger margin of players. To begin with, you don't need tons of rep, or even finish the 50+ thermia fractures.

(not trying to change your opinion, start a debate or anything, just trying to make sense of [DE] design philosophy here)

To me, Exploiter it's a more "relaxed" boss fight. I don't need to worry about elemental combos or how well prepared it's my arsenal.  it's a "good" bossfight. Not "awesome" because it has it's flaws (like having to load in deck 12 and load out everytime, risking being stuck) but some of these i understand why it's there (in my example, those transitions allows for easy reset without leaving the vallis).

But it think everybody can agree it takes too long, and long bossfights are an issue when you need to repeat them over and over again (Tyl regor anyone? Equinox parts?)

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

To be blunt, this is an exploit. The team here worked for months on creating a different kind of boss fight from the norm, and it was never intended for players to completely bypass phases of the Exploiter Orb. Going fast is fun, we totally get it. But going fast shouldn't sacrifice the hard work that has been made, or the proper intentions of phases/mechanics.

Lets be honest, it wasn't an exploit, you missed an ability that allowed us to do it faster.  As you say you spent months working on this boss battle and in that time you failed to test an ability that may be used in the boss fight to damage it... that's lack of full testing before release and the fact it was found so fast by players shows it wasn't even a hard one to find. 

You also missed the dodgy hit boxes on the actual boss itself when trying to hit the vents but funnily enough they're not getting anything done now we're forced to shoot all the vents individually.... 

 

And as we're being blunt, if this is the type of fight you come up with as a 'new type of boss fight' can you please go back to the drawing board because this fight is now nothing more than a time sink boss fight for tanky frames. 

Phase 1 - you spend more time waiting on the thermia canisters and the orb being up in the air than anything else, phase 2 you spend most of your time waiting on the raknoids and fractures to turn up....