SilverBones Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Greetings PC Tenno (and Console Tenno who will experience this later!)! Operation: Buried Debts was introduced 14 days ago, and as part of its initial release, we have been considering changes to mix up the way Thermia Fractures are harvested. Thermia Fractures will be coming back on a roughly bi-weekly basis, but we wanted to add some changes that allow players to determine the challenge and rewards given because the simple root of all feedback about Fractures is: too long and boring. The general plan is to allow players to spend additional Coolant Canisters to increase the difficulty of that Thermia Fracture, in return for faster completion. When a new Coolant Canister is added, the Fracture will “burp” and cause some interesting new effects, some examples of which are listed below: Molten Spider swarm (brand-new look and stats)! The next few enemies will be Eximus Units! Enemy damage output will increase! When Thermia Fractures become systemic after the event ends, their role is to give you Diluted Thermia and bring a bit of activity to the Orb Vallis. As of the time of this post, the Thermia Fracture Mixup is in development, and we are looking to deploy this change when the technical aspects are solid. We do not want to rush this deployment as any quality problems would continue to negatively impact the limited remainder of the current event. As with any of our planned changes, we would like to see your thoughts on this new addition to Operation: Buried Debts. Remember to keep your thoughts and feedback constructive, but let us know what you think, or perhaps what kind of “burps” you think would work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwqrf Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Feels like transforming a mobile defense into an excavation. Problem will be : how and where to find the extra coolant canister for newish players ? Also, i've encountered a lot of new players trying to complete this event, but without an archwing launcher, moving around and finding rift is really hard. Maybe having some Coolant Raknoid spawn and stay around the rifts, passively, before the tenno arrives, could be simple and efficient solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiancaRoughfin Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said: Greetings PC Tenno (and Console Tenno who will experience this later!)! Operation: Buried Debts was introduced 14 days ago, and as part of its initial release, we have been considering changes to mix up the way Thermia Fractures are harvested. Thermia Fractures will be coming back on a roughly bi-weekly basis, but we wanted to add some changes that allow players to determine the challenge and rewards given because the simple root of all feedback about Fractures is: too long and boring. The general plan is to allow players to spend additional Coolant Canisters to increase the difficulty of that Thermia Fracture, in return for faster completion. When a new Coolant Canister is added, the Fracture will “burp” and cause some interesting new effects, some examples of which are listed below: Molten Spider swarm (brand-new look and stats)! The next few enemies will be Eximus Units! Enemy damage output will increase! When Thermia Fractures become systemic after the event ends, their role is to give you Diluted Thermia and bring a bit of activity to the Orb Vallis. As of the time of this post, the Thermia Fracture Mixup is in development, and we are looking to deploy this change when the technical aspects are solid. We do not want to rush this deployment as any quality problems would continue to negatively impact the limited remainder of the current event. As with any of our planned changes, we would like to see your thoughts on this new addition to Operation: Buried Debts. Remember to keep your thoughts and feedback constructive, but let us know what you think, or perhaps what kind of “burps” you think would work! How about extinguished fractures that dont spit out lava (And kill our graphics cards) and have Excavators deployed on them that we also have to defend to extract raw Thermia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)YoungGunn82 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said: rewards given Umbral Forma (Umbral Bp) please?! Even if it's a small chance, that is an reward I would like to see. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher7464 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 So does this mean that when we have more than one coolant canister on, it will reward more points the more canisters are on there? Or will it act as one canister, but sped up? I would really like it to reward more points so that we can farm it out a bit faster but on a harder difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawbeard Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 minute ago, dwqrf said: new players those are not a thing DE is interested in, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwqrf Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 il y a 1 minute, Rawbeard a dit : those are not a thing DE is interested in, sorry. I found the thermia grind much harder than the Exploiter orb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyi Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, dwqrf said: Feels like transforming a mobile defense into an excavation. Problem will be : how and where to find the extra coolant canister for newish players ? Also, i've encountered a lot of new players trying to complete this event, but without an archwing launcher, moving around and finding rift is really hard. Then they need to get archwing launchers? Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyi Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Depending on how fast and how many you can add, I like this change. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBorris Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 From what I understand this will not do much for solo (unless you do the janky thing and use your Operator to carry two canisters). This is a fair enough way to approach this, sometimes the solo player has to take a hit for engaging group content, I just want to make sure that I am not misunderstanding the mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwqrf Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 il y a 5 minutes, Ely.I a dit : Then they need to get archwing launchers? Jesus Not every problem of distance and map size should be solved by "get itzal, scrub" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miatrox Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Will I keep my progress towards opticor vandal until the event returns, if I didn't finish it by now? Spoiler Asking for a friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyi Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 minute ago, dwqrf said: Not every problem of distance and map size should be solved by "get itzal, scrub" Yes it does, that's why it's recommended Itzal can get you from one tip of fortuna to the other in less than 2 seconds. If new players don't have gear to progress or make certain content easier, then they move towards getting such gear, it's called natural progress, not everything needs to be accessible or a participation award. They can't move fast? get itzal. Also i find it funny that people like you always come in defense of "new players"; these are not babies, these are thinking people, probably smarter than you in fact. They're perfectly capable of getting things done, relax and let them be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntyd1s Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Just make each kill in the area speed up the process similar to the bounty. Time reward will encourage fighting, make squad actively balance their defense and offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwqrf Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 So this is your solution to the whole post ? The fractures are too long. Get Itzal. Problem solved. Why are we even talking about speeding the process while the distance from spawn to coolant and from coolant to fractures (x4) is irrelevant, right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantasmalWordsmith Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I think this is a nice idea but I find myself wondering - would it be possible to generate additional rewards for doing these more difficult harvests other than just being faster? It wouldn't have to be much, but I think something like some extra endo or maybe some Solaris United standing? Just to add a little sweetness to the extra spicy fractures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightmareT12 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I think the problem on Fractures is that because this is a Points event, they give one single point per single fracture without a chance to concurrently run two and without any reward at all until you get 5, 25, 50, 75 or the 100 points -- the difference of this and Plague Star is that the Helminth gives you the Hunter Mod set for instance, so you get an immediate reward for a single run wheras here we have literally no idea on what this thing will give in the future. So the burnout comes from people wanting to get as many points ASAP and once you're done, well, you're done AFAIK. The whole "Excavation+Mobile Defense" on Open World idea is fine, but I think you're taking the wrong approach here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Honestly... I've got 50+ thermia left from this event alone (the 'joys' of needing to get 100 points for the opticor vandal...), I've got a dozen or so of the new dual handed katana stance, I got the articula and I've got hildryn so (ignoring the fact I don't actually need to) the reason for me to farm thermia fractures is basically to farm the ephemera and 'maybe' the resources that the orb drop now. In all honesty though with the low drop chance on the ephemera and how long it takes to do the orb fight (it's not hard, it just takes an age) I'm just not interested in trying to get the ephemera and changing the first bit to be faster, by adding harder enemies isn't going to make it much more enjoyable than it is now imo, especially when you just need to take a frost and a mesa and well.... Basically I have no reason to even bother doing it again. This is basically a mission to unlock another one (we don't like this approach on sedna either) where the two remaining rewards are locked behind a stupidly low drop chance. That low drop chance on the remaining items makes me not want to do the orb fight anymore and once I've helped a clan mate get his hildryn I don't care if I don't get the ephemera so the entire and only reason to do the fractures is now no longer there.... It's not like thermia fractures even drops anything other than refined thermia, on PoE with the ghouls we get a drop table rewards due to bounties, on plague star we can get standing to buy things we want (funny how this isn't being used on the orb...) and even excavation (which is what this is essentially) gives rotation rewards etc.... I 'might' force myself to do 100 points again even if a new weapon was added but in all honesty if the opticor vandal is anything to go by I'm not sure it's worth it. Side note for new players: waypoints on the actual fractures would be very useful imo, spent more time finding them than anything else. I also wanted to be able to run more than one fracture at a time, a squad of 4 high level players could have 3 of them standing around doing nothing while a single player could deal with the enemies on the only fracture we could have open.... let us run as many as we want like excavation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 30 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said: When a new Coolant Canister is added, the Fracture will “burp” and cause some interesting new effects, some examples of which are listed below: So we have to be in a group for this? We'll still be stuck with the same boring drawn out process when solo? Expected this much at least. It is a "co-op" game after all. At least I don't really have a reason to do fractures since i got Opticor Vandal finally and I'm done with the exploiter orb, so no use for diluted thermia anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltage Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 These changes seem great. I appreciate the attempt at rewarding challenge with efficiency within the event. Sadly I did it when it came out, so that means I didn't get the easier version of the content. 34 minutes ago, [DE]Bear said: The next few enemies will be Eximus Units! Will one of those Eximus be the Jackal Eximus that is still missing from the codex by any chance? The Jackal Eximus has been in the codex since Fortuna launched and does not exist. Also, could "Fractures Sealed" maybe be a profile stat for Operation: Buried Debts? It would be nice to have replayability after having everything. If not, could Exploiter Orbs and Profit Taker Orbs be on the profile like Eidolons? Tracking Orbs to match Eidolons would be consistent with Plains of Eidolon bosses and be neat to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwoply Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 From my experience the Fractures shouldn't be shortened by the players actions (a gear item etc.), It just should be shortened from 4 Mobile Defense missions to 2. I love that you're planning to add a variety of enemies into the reoccurring event but if nothing changes outside of "sitting around a campfire" for way to long, my initial criticism of it being a boring tedious slog will remain. Warframe Abilities also need to be consistent with the rest of the game where enemy attacks can't penetrate them. Limbo, Frost & Gara are just a few that I have had experience with where their abilities mean nothing and the Canister gets destroyed. There are many issues with this event and having the player use an item to speed it up (imo) isn't the correct approach. Also please remove RNG to the audio lines, You have a great line from Eudico that informs players on what they have to do yet it's in a roll w/ 3 other lines that have less and unhelpful information (I understand world building) but it doesn't help when you have no guide in game (AN ISSUE WARFRAME HAS AND WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE IF NO CLEAR IN-GAME DIRECTION IS GIVEN). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyi Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, dwqrf said: So this is your solution to the whole post ? The fractures are too long. Get Itzal. Problem solved. Why are we even talking about speeding the process while the distance from spawn to coolant and from coolant to fractures (x4) is irrelevant, right ? No friend if you knew how to read you would know that the solution to the "Fractures are long and boring" is adding the OPTION (note that its cap and bolded, options are always good) to add more canisters to the fracture to speed up the process. The distance doesn't matter because as i said it takes a couple of seconds to travel fortuna when you have itzal. Yes, get Itzal, IT really helps, the solution to your traveling """problem""" is provided by the game already, go acquire it. We're talking about speeding the process because even with itzal it's boring and takes forever, with increased enemy difficulty you solve the tedium problem (note again that IT IS AN OPTION so your precious new players don't have to necessarily do this until they're properly ready) and with decreased time on the mobile defense you solve the "too long" problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBones Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 Good feedback coming in, folks. Please try and keep .gif reaction spam out of your posts though as it just chonks up the thread. Keep it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXCrusnik Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 21 minutes ago, dwqrf said: Not every problem of distance and map size should be solved by "get itzal, scrub" Itzal is just the fastest available Archwing. You don't need Itzal to build an archwing launcher... =_= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelStiller Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Can't carry two canisters at a time solo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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