P2W

[Loza03]

There's a major flaw in this logic.

Primarily the idea that it's paying that removes the challenge, when something can't be removed if it doesn't exist. Warframe was never intended to be a Hardcore game to begin with, but even at a casual level, it's pretty low-challenge. Most difficulty is based on raw damage numbers.

[FlyingDice]

If you want to drop a couple thousand right after you start playing the game, buy everything you can, convince yourself you've won, and quit, go right ahead. Ain't nobody gonna complain about whales in a game where being one does nothing for you.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Warframe never has, and hopefully never will be pay-to-win, it's just people who don't know what that actually means keep throwing the term around, when it isn't; it's pay for convenience. here's an example that might help people to understand;

let's take two players: myself, an MR26, and a newbie MR2, let's just call him "Jeff" for the sake of things.

now me and Jeff both decide we want the Karak. there's two ways you can get the Karak: purchase it directly with Platinum, or purchase the Blueprint for Credits, then farm materials and wait 12 hours for it to craft in the foundry. let's say I buy the Karak with plat. just like that, I have an unranked Karak, with a Catalyst-pre-installed, and a weapon slot for it already granted that I still have to level up myself. < this is the important part. Jeff decides he wants to farm the Karak, so he buys the Blueprint for credits and then goes of to Saturn, and then Mercury and a few other places to get what he needs. he then goes to build the Karak in the Foundry and logs off. he logs back in 12 or more hours later and a Shiny new unranked Karak is waiting for him, he then has to go and get a Blueprint to build a catalyst for it, and perhaps trade a couple things to buy a weapon slot if he needs one.

I get my Karak instantly, I bought it. Jeff takes about 2 days in total farming and crafting the Karak and it's catalyst, plus time spent on trading to get platinum for weapon slots. while Jeff has been doing this, I've levelled my Karak to 30. after a while Jeff gets his Karak to 30. what is the difference between our Karaks now? absolutely nothing. they are both 30, both with a catalyst, one just took longer to obtain than the other. they both do the same damage, have the same appearance, and are the exact same in every other way.

I paid to get my Karak faster than Jeff. I did NOT pay to get a better Karak than Jeff, if I did, THAT would be pay to win, because I would possess an advantage over Jeff that he could not otherwise obtain. paying gets you the same things as everybody else, only instantly.

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by (PS4)robotwars7

[Orblit]

Didn't think people forgot what P2W means..I was expecting sarcasm and fashion frame = winning.

[nslay]

1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

I paid to get my Karak faster than Jeff. I did NOT pay to get a better Karak than Jeff, if I did, THAT would be pay to win, because I would possess an advantage over Jeff that he could not otherwise obtain. paying gets you the same things as everybody else, only instantly.

No, you paid to win. Just my opinion.

I could go and buy, oh say, Volt Prime from other players. I would get it instantly and faster that way rather than wait for it through Baro and relics like you could by playing the game. I don't consider buying it the same as playing Warframe to earn the reward. You are bypassing the game's built-in time gating mechanics to win. Simple as that... Even farming for things to sell for plat so that you could buy Volt Prime sounds nothing like a looter shooter game. Doesn't even sound like the kind of friendly trade I think of when I think of these games... Sounds more like, Auction House and eBay where you trade for profit (if you like to do that, all the power to you!).

[zoffmode]

P2W isn't bad in a game where you can trade and earn the "P2W currency". It's what makes Warframe great compared to a lot of other games. You can do game content you enjoy doing and earn your plat from there and then buy the stuff you don't enjoy farming for while others do. It is P2W in a way, but in a healthy way.

Bad P2W is where you are absolutely required to spend real money to progress in any real way. That one doesn't exist in Warframe. So there you go.

[IntheCoconut]

43 minutes ago, nslay said:

No, you paid to win. Just my opinion.

I could go and buy, oh say, Volt Prime from other players. I would get it instantly and faster that way rather than wait for it through Baro and relics like you could by playing the game. I don't consider buying it the same as playing Warframe to earn the reward. You are bypassing the game's built-in time gating mechanics to win. Simple as that... Even farming for things to sell for plat so that you could buy Volt Prime sounds nothing like a looter shooter game. Doesn't even sound like the kind of friendly trade I think of when I think of these games... Sounds more like, Auction House and eBay where you trade for profit (if you like to do that, all the power to you!).

I would agree if having Volt Prime gave you some sort of advantage over other frames. Does having Volt Prime make you play the game better than the players who are stuck with only Equinox or Mesa Prime? I can choose to either wait for an unvaulting, or I can turn around and buy Volt (so long as another player has it anyway) but doing so doesn't make me better at the game than anyone that decides to wait instead.

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

On 2019-04-14 at 8:13 PM, BLI7Z said:

And then how would I support a F2P game that I've been playing for some years and want it to keep on thriving? I don't want to depend on other people maybe paying for something I want to be eternal.

And what would I do with all that loads of platinum? Buy "godlike" rivens from people, enabling them to get into the P2W status? I prefer wasting that platinum (real money) in the market so it disappears from the player market. 

By buying plat for cosmetics to look cool. Warframe is far from pay to win. Nothing is locked behind plat that gives any sort of upgrade to your character.

[nslay]

14 minutes ago, IntheCoconut said:

I would agree if having Volt Prime gave you some sort of advantage over other frames. Does having Volt Prime make you play the game better than the players who are stuck with only Equinox or Mesa Prime? I can choose to either wait for an unvaulting, or I can turn around and buy Volt (so long as another player has it anyway) but doing so doesn't make me better at the game than anyone that decides to wait instead. 

 

The advantage is that you get frames substantially faster by spending money/plat than comparable players who are playing the game and waiting for DE to unvault the frames and/or releasing the relics...

It doesn't bother me in the slightest that people do this. Some people don't have a lot of time to farm the relics or wait for Baro. If someone playing in a mission with me is using a frame that they bought, it wouldn't matter to me in the slightest. I wouldn't even know! But let's not pretend that buying things in the game with money/plat to bypass the game itself is somehow not the same as pay-to-win. It's pay-to-win to spend money/plat to bend the rules.

[UltimateGrr]

3 hours ago, Cegrin said:

.  The quintessential example of this is gating the best characters/equipment behind a paywall.  The closest we ever had to that was probably Excalibur Prime being a founder exclusive

Ironically Founder's gear didn't actually have boosted stats when people like myself bought them.  Excalibur Prime, and by extension all the Primes released around the same time, were purely cosmetic in their differences from the mainline frames.  Primes were originally meant to be prestige items, proof that you braved the perils of the Towers and low drop chances and thus served as your bragging rights but were otherwise identical to their OG counterparts.

I remember thinking to myself back in 2013 that I'd enjoyed my time with the beta, and thought 70USD was equal to the amount of enjoyment I'd gotten and figured I would get from the game in the 12-18 months I thought the game would live.

Obviously I was wrong on that last bit, but I knew going in that all I was paying for was a skin.

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

I bought alot of gear with plat and the more you play warframe the more you start to regret paying to skip. This game feels like pay to lose because in the end you are just wasting plat and money on stuff you could farm for easily when what you should be using it on is Fashion Frame. one of things you can’t buy with plat is experience and that is what counts the most.

I can’t recall a many games that allowed me to grind practically for its premium currency and the fact I can do that in warframe just destroys the Pay 2 win analogy. What even is the point of using plat to get stuff quicker when in the end you are just gonna farm plat anyway just feels like a weird thing to me.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Warframe is not p2w. Sure you buy the fully built frame with a slot and potato but you still need to rank it up forma it and mod it out but before that gather materials and relics to get the forma, farm the mods, farm endo to upgrade your mods.

You pay to get one small step done

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

This whole topic is asinine. 

It's like me saying "What's the point of learning to bake a cake, when I can just buy one at the supermarket?!"
or
"Why should I learn to play sports when I can just pay for ESPN?"

For the love of the game, dude.  

And hey, while we're all here... if you're so lost on what to do with "all that plat", feel free to toss some my way. I've got a LOT of new players in my clan who would appreciate the help 😛

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

5 hours ago, nslay said:

No, you paid to win. Just my opinion.

I could go and buy, oh say, Volt Prime from other players. I would get it instantly and faster that way rather than wait for it through Baro and relics like you could by playing the game. I don't consider buying it the same as playing Warframe to earn the reward. You are bypassing the game's built-in time gating mechanics to win. Simple as that... Even farming for things to sell for plat so that you could buy Volt Prime sounds nothing like a looter shooter game. Doesn't even sound like the kind of friendly trade I think of when I think of these games... Sounds more like, Auction House and eBay where you trade for profit (if you like to do that, all the power to you!).

What is the "win" here, though?  Someone gets the frame they want.  Cool.  I've done that with literally every frame I own, only I farmed them.  Am I "winning" less?

This isn't a player-vs-player type of game, conclave aside.  There's no "winning" versus other people.  

We all lift together, 😛

[AshenHaze]

It's always been that way since potatoes existed.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

3 minutes ago, AshenHaze said:

It's always been that way since potatoes existed.

I've never spent a dime, or a plat for that matter, on a potato >.>  Not in 1400+ hrs of gameplay

[AshenHaze]

Just now, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I've never spent a dime, or a plat for that matter, on a potato >.>  Not in 1400+ hrs of gameplay

Good for you. I'm sure you incorporate 100% of the playerbase.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

Just now, AshenHaze said:

Good for you. I'm sure you incorporate 100% of the playerbase.

Nope, just about as much as you do. 😛

[AlphaPHENIX]

On 2019-04-15 at 6:21 AM, (PS4)Technesiss said:

P2W implies that without paying you're at a severe disadvantage compared to those who do pay. Or that the amount of playtime needed vs cost is not balanced.

Umbral Inaros with 2 sets of maxed Arcane Grace.

It's the equivalent of immortality cheat codes in other games.

Arcane Grace has a 5% drop chance from the Hydrolyst, only on captures and not kills. And you will need 20 arcanes for two full sets...it's gonna take some time to farm it all. Or you could get thousands of plat and ask around in trade chat. Since you are already spending that much, why not just buy Inaros too, skip his quest and rush to The Sacrafice to get the Umbral mods; then realise you may not have enough endo to max them and would need to A: farm endo B: go to trade chat again.

Done with all of that? Congratulations, you've unlocked God Mode and now every other frame is irrelavent.

Now on to getting the best damage dealing weapons which would be replaced by even more power-creep in a few months. Yay!

[Soulden]

On 2019-04-14 at 11:04 PM, BLI7Z said:

So... if I have money (1) and want to put it into this game, where is the actual hardcore challenge? (2) Not even the grind is a challenge, only long and boring timewalls.(3) 

Whale asking (1) where the content to shine is (2).

He or she actually wants the game to be P2W, but after spending time in the game came to realize that there is no P2W but instead you need to actually play. (3)

Clever twisting, if you don't read between the lines.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Souldend78

[Dettlafx]

This cant be serious lol. I made 5k+ plat just by selling prime parts and mods.  804 hours played. Warframe is the most f2p friendly game i have ever played

[Aldain]

8 minutes ago, Dettlafx said:

This cant be serious lol.

Nope, there are people that are dead serious that this game is P2W.

[Dettlafx]

5 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Nope, there are people that are dead serious that this game is P2W.

Well, sux to suck i guess

[sleepychewbacca]

11 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Nope, there are people that are dead serious that this game is P2W.

People are allowed their opinions at the end of the day, even if these same people alleging P2W have it the same as those claiming the world is flat. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by sleepychewbacca

[...BlackSoul...]

I find this thread simply amusing mostly because two things.

Paying to get content in warframe feels more like paying to skip the game for most parts if you are buying other than cosmetics. Surely there is some things that feels like just easier to skip by buying with plat to ease some of the slowness to get into later things, like potatoes, slots etc. But if you end up buying things like frames that are just behind some missions, its just skipping part of the game, which is kinda weird... If you are playing the game for sake of the playing the game, why would you pay to skip parts of it...

Secondly the game I used to play silly amount of time was the kind of game where this huge free to play company simply has been putting more effort into creating things for players to buy than actually developing the game forward... Comparing that game, which actually was some inspiration for DE in early days, is just mind boggling and I need to stop every now and then and wonder how there still exist game company like this that really genuinely seems to love their game and players and have managed to build game that does not try to get you spending any more than you are willing to awesome game like this.

I understand that there is some people who just want to beat every game and get to the end credits as fast as they can, but as some have somewhere said, it's not about getting there, its enjoying the journey to there.