The new melee System is garbage and has taken the fun out of Warframe for me

[DoomFruit]

16 hours ago, Delirious_Panda said:

People have complained about every single update that has gone live since the game was in closed beta. I started playing Update 7. When I started playing mods had existed for about a month. Stances didn't exist. Damage types for the most part didn't even exist yet. There is not a single thing I have yet to actually complain about in this game over the past 7 years I've been playing this game outside of S#&$ty drops. Zorencoptering was end game melee because melee was useless outside of infested, having only swords, Bo and Fragor in the game, Primaries consisted of the Hek being the OP primary with Acrid secondary. CHANGE IS GOOD. LET IT HAPPEN. 

Change is only good if the end result is good. To give another example, phones have been shedding features like headphone jacks, replaceable batteries and expandable storage over the past few years. But that's good, right? It's change. Change is good.

Or how about another example: I remove one of your arms. That's good. It's a change. Changes are good, let them happen.

9 hours ago, Demonwolf said:

This update is like if they added day 1 flinging while removing coptering in melee 1.0. Yeah guys we'll fix it I promise, as you move 3 pixels with your fast weapons then never fixing it. While coptering was gone for a few updates before flinging was added in our timeline, the rest of melee 2.0 was in the game and okay. It was an acceptable loss for a much more interesting system to me. Parkour 2.0 I think was announced and progress was shown and flinging was a stopgap. Maybe this is just rose goggles and not being a melee main.

Not necessarily. Assuming that by "flinging" you mean the horizontal aerial melee attacks which aren't slams or wall lunges (not very descriptive, I know) caused by aiming straight ahead while mid-air and pressing the melee button, I think that they came in with melee 2.0 at the exact same time that coptering was removed in update 15. At least with that situation, they added in a fully functional new system at the same time that they removed the old one. The current melee situation would be like removing coptering, removing stamina, but leaving us with parkour 2.0 for 3 months (and counting).

[TeaHawk]

I'm not a melee player. However I don't like the new system as well. I want to control every single aspect of melee game-play manually and I want to be able to switch to melee permanently like I did before. And hate that they removed switching animation. Now it looks awkward to me: melee appears in your hands instantly out of nowhere ready to hit and then disappears the same way. It's a drastic downgrade to me

[Fallen77]

OMG, they made a quality of life improvement for everyone, better find a way go complain about it !

You poor little square of sugar...

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

QoL drastically reduced for me... just so ya know. This change wasn't universally beneficial, and I listed why, in gameplay terms that actually impact my moment to moment combat. (not isolated instances of inconveniences)

To claim this change was good for everyone (multiple posters here), ignores the large segment of the population that enjoyed multiple facets of the old system that are not guaranteed to return in the future updates of the new system.

Thus, current threads like this, voicing these concerns BEFORE melee is "Finished" is the ONLY time these comments are truly useful, because who knows how long it will be before they look at melee again, once this is done?

 

[ranks21]

I wouldn't call this a QOL change that is good for everyone<< if it were then there wouldn't be so much complains. as far as it is being finished which it is pretty much so, we all know that DE wont be changing anything else about it where its at now. if they wanted feedback they already got enough and even I can summarize from the many threads that mostly console and pc players using controllers sees it as a positive change while traditional pc players that melee prefers the non automated system.

DE will learn very quickly when their predicted roadmap/changes really kills the game and then it will be too late. not all players are blinded by what DE does and quite frankly they also have all rights to REJECT said changes<< I truly believe they wont show the melee stats of before and after melee 2.999 usage.

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

I’m going to wait till they rework combos before I judge too much.

i appreciate that melee only players got kinda screwed here because a few techniques and strategies are now less viable or more awkward, but the new melee system is actually how I wanted the  game to work since the beginning. 

My only real quibble is that life strike is slightly more awkward to use.

[Jenove]

After 3k hours and 5 years playing, I like the new system. Makes it fluid to use your melee and get right back to shooting. It finally feels like that first trailer for warframe where Nyx, Frost, And Excal all fight and seem to seamlessly go from shooting to melee combos and back again. 

Fite me.

[3rdpig]

Personally I think it's an improvement, but other than for tightly enclosed spaces, I'm not a big fan of melee combat when there's a ranged option.

[Delirious_Panda]

5 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Change is only good if the end result is good. To give another example, phones have been shedding features like headphone jacks, replaceable batteries and expandable storage over the past few years. But that's good, right? It's change. Change is good.

Or how about another example: I remove one of your arms. That's good. It's a change. Changes are good, let them happen.

How nice. Someone pointing to negative examples to back up their point. Instead of pointing out a plethora of examples of GOOD CHANGE, Ill just respond to what you mean.

Just stop playing then. If you care about the changes that much, stop playing. Maybe if numbers drop enough after the new system they will revert it. Playing the game and complaining about it doesn't really mean much when DE is just going to go, well they haven't quit yet so they must like it. I along with apparently almost everyone else, love the new melee system because its a good representation of what the game is supposed to be. Not a static game of "Me want to melee. Me hold F to equip melee. Ok me done I press F again.", but a game in which you can fluidly switch between shooting and meleeing without having to stop.

Melee 2 was better than melee 1 don't get me wrong, you seem to have been there for it as well so I hope you wouldn't disagree, but Melee 2 was still far from perfect.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Auto parry should be a toggle option and aim glide blocking should return in some capacity.  That being said I vastly prefer this system compared to the old one.  (not that the old one was actually any good mind you.  So that's not saying much.)  I do feel sorry for those who stuck to using the old button layout as these changes put channeling on their casting button which makes things obnoxious for them.  But hopefully that issue is resolved when the new control scheme (brought up with wukong rework) drops.

Personally I think the biggest issue with this current thing is that we're playing with only part of the system.  I understand the reason they wanted to roll it out in phases.  And that would be fine if the phases had an actual schedule to keep up with.  But right now its just giving people the impression of playing with a broken/unfinished system because that's what it is.  DE needs to roll out the next phase asap.

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

I swear I don’t understand these issues

Add manual block. aiming in melee mode blocks instead of aiming ok next. This should cover aim glide  as well

Autoblock. You can now attack to stop autoblocking via shooting and melee. Autoblock will override if you take an attack that will knock you down preventing it.

Anything else I’m ok with or unaware of the issues 

[DoomFruit]

20 hours ago, Delirious_Panda said:

How nice. Someone pointing to negative examples to back up their point. Instead of pointing out a plethora of examples of GOOD CHANGE, Ill just respond to what you mean.

Just stop playing then. If you care about the changes that much, stop playing. Maybe if numbers drop enough after the new system they will revert it. Playing the game and complaining about it doesn't really mean much when DE is just going to go, well they haven't quit yet so they must like it. I along with apparently almost everyone else, love the new melee system because its a good representation of what the game is supposed to be. Not a static game of "Me want to melee. Me hold F to equip melee. Ok me done I press F again.", but a game in which you can fluidly switch between shooting and meleeing without having to stop.

I was already fluidly switching between gunfire and melee before, without ever once having to press the weapon select key (unless I wanted to exchange my Corinth for my Arca Scisco). Did you even use melee in quick mode before? This new system has actually made it worse. To restate the problems with this, yet again:

• Stance movesets are terrible. Anything that takes control away from the player is terrible. If I'm holding W, I expect to move forward at a constant steady pace. If I'm holding W and Shift, I expect to move forward at a faster, yet still steady pace. If I let go of W and press D, I expect to immediately start moving to the right. If my character decides to leap forward or stop dead still, something has gone very wrong. This is what stances do. They kill fluidity. I was a melee main - but I was a quick melee main. Explicitly quick melee. Not melee mode.
• Syndicate procs do not function properly. Previously, I could melee away and have my gun explode once it soaked up enough ambient XP. That won't happen any more because the gun has been forced away.
• I can't alt-fire directly after melee.
• Weapon automatic reload once empty won't happen if your sword forces your gun out of your hands. Emptying my magazine (something very easy to do with a Tigris or Exergis) and then immediately slicing something else nearby wasn't a problem under the old system because my gun would immediately start reloading once the swing animation was done. This no longer happens because, that's right, my character has decided that they should be holding a sword instead of the gun.
• Scanners, fishing spears and mining lasers get unequipped after swinging your sword. Go on. Let's hear you honestly say that having to navigate the gear wheel (or even pressing the instant hotkey if you have it bound) to bring back your scanner out every single time you swing your sword is an improvement over not having go away in the first place.

And obviously I'm going to give negative examples, because this was a negative change.

[Sziklamester]

My major problem with the new melee system is the removal of quick melee because the basic quick melee attack animations was faster than what the current system have. There are few useful changes but the attacking animations on certain weapons locks you in a state were you are better to choose gun instead. Some weapon category like polearms, staves, axes, daggers, heavy blades but almost all "except swords overall" have worse attack animations. Not everybody liked the combo system but the game forces you to do no matter if you have stance or not on the said weapon. The quick melee was much efficient at killing enemies because not locked the movement and not used terrible animations for combo. The combo system is only good once they revisit the animations and kick it out those ones which locks you in a place or in a state. For example I hate that animation when I use a dagger but after few swing it rush to the enemy and "fly" meters because that is not controllable. The staves now dead for me because no matter how you speed up there is that teribble animation when you not equip any stance and that directly slows you down while in the quick melee that animation was much efficient and faster regardless of the speed.

Still there are weapon categories like fist weapons which does not really have a place in the game except in few situations. Same for scythes and few weapon categories. I do not tested the gun blades after the update nor tried the throwing weapons, but I suppose the attack animation and switching between modes is still bad. Also the aim glide with melee is removed "many liked for me neutral" and the automatic block is a sign the devs wanted to slow down the game so my hopes low on they will fix those animations because currently the melee fluidity is a piece of....

The blocking never was a strong part of the game, because the tactic was always attack then run not attack block attack. The best way always was the movement system and the maneuvering but some weapons hit scan so you cannot avoid the majority of weapons. The blocking is now automatic "in the melee mode" but the angle what you can defend is small relatively. Those mods reworked but still noone use them because not a choice if you have meta mods.

Nerfing mandatory mods on guns and on melees unlikely because the latest amalgan mods and nightmare "corrupted ones" supposed to be alternatives for playing. The rest is again in the toilet no matter what they doing with it.

 

The slam attacks are okay but sometimes hard to control, the charge attacks say hi but I say thanks no. Those was not also so popular only in the dark age of the game when you had chance to kill with those weapons but the game evolved, more enemies spawn and overall the game is faster than in the early days. So it is also an useless option in my eye while we "most who like the fluidity" needs the quick melee or just fix the animations so the gameplay would not look like that clunky as it is now.

[(XBOX)TheBigGae TM]

On 2019-05-27 at 4:48 PM, Ofeban said:

No it isn't. What are you talking about? Not being able to block-glide completely removes melee parkour. How do you parkour without use of RMB to cancel animations and control jumps/momentum? You can't now because your gun comes out.

You do realize that you can still attack with your melee weapon while gliding. Jesus you people don't even think before typing do you.

[Ofeban]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GAM3K1NG42 said:

You do realize that you can still attack with your melee weapon while gliding. Jesus you people don't even think before typing do you.

Please dude you didn't even read what you quoted. What you're saying to me is you can do a basic attack in the air, so long as you don't press RMB at any point. Yes, technically you're correct. But that attack will suck and will probably miss.

When I'm melee, and I want to a) attack something in the air, or b) headshot a regular enemy, RMB allows me control the height and speed, and also enables slide-attacking without loss of height while in the air(these do more damage, have better range, are easier to control than basic LMB attacks that will typically launch you forward.)

I can use RMB with double jump and roll to attack a single opponent 2-3 times in the same air combo. Without RMB I can't come close.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Ofeban

[zacRupnow]

On 2019-05-27 at 5:42 PM, PoisonHD said:

You control it while your gun is out? you can still hit instantly with your gun out. At least that's what I do, the removal of block glide didn't effect me at all, and I would use it a lot.

Melee block glide had more functions than aim glide. Using the sprint key while melee gliding would initiate a crouched glide no longer available, melee glide could animation cancel while aim glide is just aim glide. The loss of melee functionality effectively halves the possible distance you could travel. Most of this functionality was probably overlooked because it was unintentional but even so you can't expect the removal to sit right for players who have been using these functions for over 5 years.

[Blatantfool]

The new melee has had the reverse effect for me. I like it a lot.

[Blatantfool]

52 minutes ago, zacRupnow said:

Melee block glide had more functions than aim glide. Using the sprint key while melee gliding would initiate a crouched glide no longer available, melee glide could animation cancel while aim glide is just aim glide. The loss of melee functionality effectively halves the possible distance you could travel. Most of this functionality was probably overlooked because it was unintentional but even so you can't expect the removal to sit right for players who have been using these functions for over 5 years.

 You pretty much admitted the guts of the issue right in this post. The reality is the new system has fixed, accidentally or no, a couple longstanding tricks of the trade that were unintended effects.

 Couple years back we had 'Zorencoptering' because slide melee used midair would lead to a momentum boost that'd toss your Tenno at mach 2 in any direction. It was loved by like 95% of the people playing and was absolutely a tool that showed who'd practiced the game the most as the best players were pretty much blurs. It was also 100% not DE's intention and after tons of experimenting on their end they made the new movement system we have now which axed the copter and added the bullet jump. The truth is, bullet jump is a nerf in speed compared to coptering. However in the end it wasn't so bad. Everyone got accustomed and now bullet jump and the new movement is appreciated just fine. 

 It just kinda happens man. Sometimes those old quirks of the system that we build our playstyle around go away.

[EvilChaosKnight]

On 2019-05-29 at 7:04 PM, DoomFruit said:

Stance movesets are terrible.

If anyone wants to experience the best example of this, go and use "sparring sets" type. Oh, you want to land a few quick hits on the enemy? Too bad. Let me do this long and elaborate breakdance for you which is both slow and hard to control because it looks cool. And if you want to have Grim Fury because it offers at least somewhat better animations? Time to fork out that forma because no sparring weapon comes with a fitting stance polarity by default.
"Amazing" update for that alone.

Also made claws a bit worse too. But not as much I guess.

Not sure what "fluidity" people are talking about either. Old quick melee worked perfectly for me.
Shoot someone in the face > Quick melee a butcher/charger/etc > Switch target and fire at someone else. Nice and simple.
New system goes like this:
Shoot someone in the face > Not-so-quick melee the enemy nearby (blame stance anims) > Try to shoot somebody... oh wait, I'm channeling (or swinging melee depending on settings) > RClick to go back to gun > Shoot. Pure downgrade on my side.

And if I go from the opposite side, things aren't better either because I keep getting "kicked" out of melee mode on every attempt to aim glide, autoblock is infuriating and block combos are now an awkward pain to do. Yay. Also block-glide had no zoom, another small bonus we've lost.

PS: A small likely unintended side-effect. Constant RClicking to get back to the gun after a single melee attack is also quite hard on your eyes due to frequent zoom-in-outs. Obviously, wasn't an issue before.

Edited June 1, 2019 by EvilChaosKnight

[IIDMOII]

Same boat. Came back to check things out. Feels wierd and unintuitive. 

Rebalancing and redoing animations is one thing but leave the keybinds alone.

Feels like an attempt to consolidate button real estate to accommodate controllers. 

To all the people saying "it's only phase 1". What will they break in phase 2 and so on?

I'm fine with changes that streamline the console experience. Just don't let it impact the pc side. I'd like to have a legacy melee option.

That's this companies DNA though. Fix things that aren't broken .... like alerts for example. I feel like there's nothing to do without the alert system bringing people together. Just stare at the map and wonder what I should be doing and then logout.

Edited June 1, 2019 by IIDMOII

[ThumpumGood]

Bye Felicia

[Stephieee]

This game is pretty twitchy and the old method of switching between melee and guns was way too slow to really make effective use of the combos. It's not perfect, but lets face it, the game's melee system has always been lacking compared to the primaries and secondaries available. 

[hellodownthere]

This might have already been said but you can use the slam combo, just hold RMB while meleeing. worked for me

[zacRupnow]

11 hours ago, Blatantfool said:

 You pretty much admitted the guts of the issue right in this post. The reality is the new system has fixed, accidentally or no, a couple longstanding tricks of the trade that were unintended effects.

I was just elaborating what the other tenno failed to explain about how melee 2.9997 contains a significant movement nerf, although I miss the shift-crouch-glide the movement is not what I personally dislike about the change.

I do not like auto-equip, if I want to take out my melee I will hold melee or use the swap weapon key. Quick melee was objectively better, you use melee when you want but when you are done it puts the equipped weapon back in your hands, many quick melee loops are better than the stances; staves and pole-arms are effectively worthless now since there is no stance that maintains forward momentum.

I do not like auto block/parry, if I want to block I will block, if I want to parry I will block in the direction of enemy fire. There are too many builds and abilities that rely on taking damage for this change to be a good idea.

I do not like alt-fire to channel, if channeling is going to be changed in the future than change the keybind then, not when it's function is still the same. I was used to click to channel and since channeling has not changed there is no warrant for moving the keybind, the game does not support multi keybinds so if I want channel on click it removes firing primary/secondary from click.

There are some sidegrades, unintended function fixes, and subjective changes to melee, but the only real upgrade is the ground slam. Everything else (auto-equip, autoblock/parry, altfire channel) should be an optional toggles. The changes reflect a gameplay system of extended combat with individual enemies, but this isn't Dark Souls we don't spend time on single enemies. The combos reduce or eliminate forward movement as if we are supposed to be challenged by individual enemies, maybe that's the direction DE wants to go but until then we oneshot most enemies with a sneeze and the flow of combat should maintain that speed. Quick melee maintained the speed, auto-equip destroys it, I don't even equip a melee weapon anymore because of how annoying auto-equip is and how stances break movement flow.

[Blatantfool]

18 minutes ago, zacRupnow said:

 

Well posted. I think your take on things is pretty reasonable. My own opinions aren't that different at the surface level. Frankly I've never truly loved any point in the modern melee system. I've always just been 'okay' with it.

 I think the autoswap is a bit bizarre. I am getting used to it over time but really it just feels weird. Autoblock is a whole other animal, I think it'll probably be seeing tweaks for a while. I can't pretend I'm crazy in love with that either.

 As for channeling, that is where my biases about melee in Warframe show. I think both channeling and the entirety of the current combo system are just weird. From the original dawn of the current combo centric melee system I've thought they just did all of it in a way that was bound to be too slow to be viable. They could have just ripped off the combo and melee logic that works so well in games like Vindictus and we'd have had the start of something that might work out in a game moving the speed Warframe plays at. We're hitting backwards or forwards or pausing mid-combo and it's all complex for the sake of complex. If each combo had just light and heavy swings and chaining them in different orders preformed each combo people would memorize and utilize them better. A good combo in a fast game can be memorized easy and smashed out accurately in a moments notice 100% of the time. Channeling has always just an oddity to me and so I never really used it properly and as a result have no strong opinions.