Dev Workshop: Revisiting Wukong

[Evhel]

12 minutes ago, Venatorio said:

 - his 2 now requires you to spam the ability. It’s literally all other survival abilities, but worse. Why spam 2, when you could... oh, I dunno... just kill the enemy shooting you?

I don't understand the spam part. I could be wrong but for what i read you click it and you turn into the cloud, healing yourself. Paired with an Umbral Vitality, Hunter Adrenaline and the health buff from base stats while not exciting it is useful.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Evhel.nVbs said:

I don't understand the spam part. I could be wrong but for what i read you click it and you turn into the cloud, healing yourself. Paired with an Umbral Vitality, Hunter Adrenaline and the health buff from base stats while not exciting it is useful.

They mean Defy, which was his 2.

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

RIP defy... gain armor tho?? Might as well gave him straight up damage reduction then. Armor only goes but so far in the long run.

[Evhel]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

They mean Defy, which was his 2.

Ohh, mb then.

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

3 minutes ago, Didoguard said:

Passive still needs further rework/clarification. If it is limited to 3 uses per mission that is a no go for endless runs. Can you just make it that it build stacks and every time it goes to 0 a stack is consumed. I have no problem with random buffs on use. But put it a stack regen once ever 3-5 minutes maybe? Capping at 3 stacks or something? With maybe 60-90 seconds of downtime before a new stack can kick in? Please make it at least Phenix Renewal Oberon level of skill. Don't just kill it right of the start for people who actually go deeper into endless missions. 

Otherwise you are cool. Keep up the great work.

I like this guy idea lol

[AgrotheStrider]

I like the change's so far for monkey boy 

[Olphalarepth]

19 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

 

Oh yeah, because 5 seconds combo instead of 3 made such a huge difference in endurance runs, especially whilst using a gun.

Honestly I kinda like the rework except for the passive. Mind you I agree that is way better than the old one but I always compare one frame to another especially when they can do something similar, case in point Nidus. Tentacle frame can regenerate AND be immortal, sure it needs to be charged with stacks but, imho obviously, it still feels like "I can do anything you can but better".

I still take this over what we have now. Guess we will soon buy the new deluxe skin too ^^

[Lored]

3 часа назад, [DE]SpaceySarah сказал:

Defy

• Defy will now taunt enemies while Wukong and his clone gain temporary invulnerability with reduced movement speed. All damage is captured, stored, and dealt back in a single furious long range staff spin attack.
• Based on the amount of damage prevented by Defy, Wukong and his clone will receive a temporary armour buff.
• Press ability again to trigger spin early.

Reasons for changes: Previously, Defy’s invulnerability was not very interactive. This change features invulnerability while encouraging more tactical, active, and interesting gameplay techniques. As many of us used Defy to be immortal, it simply was too much of a set-it-and-forget it ability. Changing it to still offer invulnerability is important to us, and strengthening the rest of his Abilities makes up for the loss of complete god mode.

 

Nerf one useful ability (like a tanky frame)... It's sad, but no problem, Inaros your time has come!

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

2 minutes ago, Lored said:

Nerf one useful ability... It's sad, but no problem, Inaros your time has come!

I'm trading over to revenant. 1shotting everything and immortal.

[Zoh_Veldae]

This new clone of his. Can we manually get rid of it? I'd like to in order to get in Spy mission rooms and NOT alert enemies. Like, does it decay health like Nekro's shadows?

Also, can we get the augment effect of Iron Vault kept in some way? I'd like to have the Arca Titron + Iron Vault combo available for some dumb fun.

Edit: Tried him out, monkey boy's fantastic now. Pablo did it again. 

And yeah, apparently you CAN dismiss the clone manually by holding the ability button instead of tapping it. That is excellent, thank you very much for that.

But muh Arca Titron + Iron Vault combo, tho....

[Venatorio]

7 minutes ago, Evhel.nVbs said:

I don't understand the spam part. I could be wrong but for what i read you click it and you turn into the cloud, healing yourself. Paired with an Umbral Vitality, Hunter Adrenaline and the health buff from base stats while not exciting it is useful.

Yup. How this ability will work at high levels: 

 

you get shot a few times. So now you activate your 2, heal some, deal paltry damage cuz reflection is a joke, then the ability ends. Alright, the enemies that were shooting you are still there, still shooting you. So you have to use your 2 again. Rinse and repeat, the enemies are not CC’d not killed. 

 

The old Defy let you just not die, but gives the ability for you to actually retaliate. It was boring and uninteresting, but it did its job.

 

Alternatively, like most high level players with double Magus Arcanes, you spam 5 a bunch which gives you invuln frames, maybe you dash to safety, and now you’re also healed to full. Costs 0 energy, is super fast, gives you an escape. Again: why would you use the Newkong’s 2?

[MidgetDude1]

3 hours ago, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Press ability again to trigger spin early.

In my opinion his defy should'nt be a nyx type of damage absorption, cause reduced movement speed and as far as i can see from the preview, you wont be able to attack at all while in there makes it just another oh S#&$ button that you press when you are in trouble, while it should be like harrow's, where he turns it on, absorbs the damage and gets a buff afterwards.

[(PSN)MediSage]

Seems to me DE is following up on the work they did with Wisp.

I love that there is a emphasis on giving the warframe more features. So. consider me won over at the moment. I love Wisp and I love that Wukong appears to be getting so many different things.

 

This has me excited for Vaubaun (Oh boy dont get me too excited!)

[(PSN)MJ-Cena7]

56 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Rev and valkyr are not remotely ruined if you know how to mod. 

There is a difference between Being playable and being good 

Valkyr got better because of melee 2.7 but still not as good as she was after her first rework and still exal umbra is better since he has way more range and use less energy

Revenant is just not relavent compared to mesa which has a better damage reduction more damaging ultimate and almost half the energy cost with similar mobility with the augment 

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

1 minute ago, Venatorio said:

Yup. How this ability will work at high levels: 

 

you get shot a few times. So now you activate your 2, heal some, deal paltry damage cuz reflection is a joke, then the ability ends. Alright, the enemies that were shooting you are still there, still shooting you. So you have to use your 2 again. Rinse and repeat, the enemies are not CC’d not killed. 

 

The old Defy let you just not die, but gives the ability for you to actually retaliate. It was boring and uninteresting, but it did its job.

 

Alternatively, like most high level players with double Magus Arcanes, you spam 5 a bunch which gives you invuln frames, maybe you dash to safety, and now you’re also healed to full. Costs 0 energy, is super fast, gives you an escape. Again: why would you use the Newkong’s 2?

This isnt going to work in a long run... Trying to take hit no matter how high your health armor or whatever will eventually get u killed. This is a joke lol.

[Valfaun]

certainly sounds more involved than the current Wukong. will have to see how this works out on higher levels, though, as i feel like his clone would die pretty fast once it draws fire, requiring you to either use Defy and Cloud Walker very frequently or just dump the clone. but idk. probably still more interesting than current Wukong, although his quasi god mode can be fun at times

[NodDragon]

I am looking forward to the changes. Already planning what mods to use.

[Orokin]

Celestial Twin:

Looks fine but it depends on the answer to the following,

• Does the clone get a copy of your weapons with ALL the mods?

If it does not then I don't think it will be a very good ability. It can't even be a good distraction because it will probably get itself killed very fast.

Cloud walker:

Very good changes especially that it heals yourself AND the clone. How useful this will be though depends on how much healing you get. Whether it is percentage based or flat, it should not take you out of the battle for too long please. My only suggestion for the augment is to allow healing allies as well.

Defy:

I don't really like "take damage to get buffed" type of abilities. The invulnerability and the taunt may change this. Again this could be a good or bad ability.

• What is the damage taken to armor received ratio?
• Is the armor additive or multiplicative?
• How hard of a taunt is it? Will it make ALL enemies in range focus on you and shoot you? 
• Is the amount of damage taken reduced by things like armor and adaptation? This could lower how much armor you get and how much damage you deal.
• What is the range of the taunt?
• How long is the armor buff for? Why is there a duration in the first place? Won't that make it kind of tedious and not very fun having to reapply all the time?
• Does the taunt make enemies target yourself and the clone? If it does then is the TOTAL damage taken by BOTH converted to armor, or is it just the damage taken by yourself?
• What is the damage distribution of the spin attack? Is it additive to your base damage and then your mods like base damage and elementals scale off that? Please make it this way. Enemy EHP scales way faster compared to their damage and this part of the ability wont be very useful unless it scales with equipped mods.

Primal Fury:

Good changes, I just hope the drain is not too high.

 

Passive:

Is it truly a passive it will eventually be gone? Please allow it to refresh after 5 minutes or something and be able to reduce that time by killing enemies with his 4th ability.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

34 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

No it doesn't.

Oh yeah, because 5 seconds combo instead of 3 made such a huge difference in endurance runs, especially whilst using a gun.

Indeed my friend. I was interested in your opinion. Have been waiting patiently for you to post. Im sure there will need to be tweaks, but until u guys on pc actually get the rework... The only thing we can really do is be optimistic.

[(PSN)naterik]

As his passive is now its only 3 levels of immortality, not 5.

Should have him find lucky red envelopes as he kills stuff and after he gets enough he gets a passive charge holding up to 5 at a time.

[Venatorio]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Dyin-Kyo said:

This isnt going to work in a long run... Trying to take hit no matter how high your health armor or whatever will eventually get u killed. This is a joke lol.

Yes. That was exactly my point. That newkong’s 2 is bad. Thanks?

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)MJ-Cena7 said:

There is a difference between Being playable and being good 

Valkyr got better because of melee 2.7 but still not as good as she was after her first rework and still exal umbra is better since he has way more range and use less energy

Revenant is just not relavent compared to mesa which has a better damage reduction more damaging ultimate and almost half the energy cost with similar mobility with the augment 

Revenant basically immortal. I have no survivability mods and u really cant die unless u cant maintain your mesmer skin and revenant also 1shots everything basically. But it's only useful in very high levels where it takes too long to kill. Like using covert lethality in a way... Pointless in lower lvls godly in high lvls 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)MJ-Cena7 said:

There is a difference between Being playable and being good 

Valkyr got better because of melee 2.7 but still not as good as she was after her first rework and still exal umbra is better since he has way more range and use less energy

Revenant is just not relavent compared to mesa which has a better damage reduction more damaging ultimate and almost half the energy cost with similar mobility with the augment 

Rev is not relevant compared to mesa? Thats an idiodic comparison considering they are two completely different frames lol.

Thats like saying Rhino isnt relevant compared to Zephyr hahahaha

[(PSN)Schobii564]

2 hours ago, Sannidor said:

One thing I like very much about current Wukong is reliable not dying.

I guess I will like new Wukong much less.

To the point of trying his new kit and allow him to gather space dust.

Like Ember.

And Nezha.

And Titania.

And Baruuk.

And Garuda.

And Khora.

And Vauban.

And Zephyr.

And Hildryn.

And Wisp.

What you say about my boy nezha and reliably not dying?

[ColdCremator]

3 hours ago, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Passive

5 Levels of Immortality: Wukong has learned 5 techniques to avoid death whenever he takes fatal damage. Wukong will be randomly allowed 3 of these techniques per mission to avoid death 3 times. Each technique will make Wukong invulnerable for 2 seconds, restore 50% health, and provide a unique buff.

1. Primal Forces: Triple elemental damage for 60 seconds
2. Heavenly Cloak: Invisibility for 30 seconds
3. Cosmic Armour: Invulnerable for 30 seconds
4. Monkey Luck: Extra loot drops for 60 seconds
5. Sly Alchemy: Orbs 4x more effective for 60 seconds

 

Granted, the ability to avoid death 3 times per mission while also gaining a substantial buff in return sounds nice on paper, but the simple fact that it has a set duration really kills it as a useful passive. Why would you want to make use of it and how would you be able to make good use of it if you can neither predict when such a buff would be useful, control in most cases when you take fatal damage and can't control what buff you get in the first place? Plus, you only get 3 procs per mission so it's safe to assume the passive does not refresh when you die for real and revive. Essentially, if this passes you will essentially have no passive at some point while you play, unlike literally every other Warframes whose passives, each with their different effects and activation requirements, are always present and usable, even something as useless as Mag's passive and that's saying something.

 

They should be changed so it is a permanent buff for the rest of the mission, even when killed and revived, and should be balanced accordingly if necessary. However, I do believe that all buffs are cleansed on death so the above is not possible. The best workaround would be to allow the passive to "recharge" on death and give its 3 still random buffs on proc. You wouldn't always get Primal Forces or Monkey Luck even if it happened on your first life, in this case.

Sly Alchemy is fine as is imo but if not, reduce value to 2x and remove duration. Monkey Luck, same deal but no listed value so let's just say it doubles loot and call it a day. Cosmic Armour should be damage reduction, maybe 50% would be fine. Primal Forces could be lowered to either 2x elemental damage or 1.5x elemental damage, the latter being the lowest it should go. Heavenly Cloak is a big, gray area cuz we can't do perma invis for obvious reasons, however any number of buffs could be used as a replacement that it's hard to say what it should be.

 

3 hours ago, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

• Defy will now taunt enemies while Wukong and his clone gain temporary invulnerability with reduced movement speed. All damage is captured, stored, and dealt back in a single furious long range staff spin attack.
• Based on the amount of damage prevented by Defy, Wukong and his clone will receive a temporary armour buff.

Only things I'd say should be changed is that Defy should have a longer active time than 2 seconds and Defying damage should also restore Wukong and clone's health to full, and maybe also give them both health regen for a duration. I doubt the staff spin will hit through walls, although I would be pleasantly surprised if it did, and the hitbox may be too low and narrow for it to impact what it should if we assume it follow's the staff's hitbox and placement. When the rework was first discussed I originally thought that Defy's damage reflection would apply to any and all who were taunted and/or hit Wukong and Clone in the ability time window regardless of location or placement, which sounded niche but nice and possibly reliable. This, however, does not look reliable or useful anymore.

 

3 hours ago, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Primal Fury

Casting no longer holds Wukong in place. With new energy requirements, the cast cost of Primal Fury was lowered but cast drain was increased to be turned off and on as desired.

I think this is counter intuitive. Baruuk's Serene Storm is an excellent example of the perfect channel ability because it really can be activated w/ little Restraint cost for cast and drain. Besides, Iron Staff already only costs 25 energy to cast and 3 e/s to maintain, comparable to Excalibur and Valkyr's 4s which are 25 and 2.5 e/s. I could only assume otherwise that the cast cost was reduced to 0 and the drain increased to 4-6 e/s, because that would have had to be the case to fit the wording above. I would hope for this to be the case. I would be highly against the potentiality of Primal Fury's drain acting identical to Hysteria, because such a mechanic is much too punishing and undesirable for the player.

With these new changes to Primal Fury, I now believe that Primal Rage should be integrated into the base ability and a new augment for Primal Fury should be developed. Even with the damage redistribution, it would be contending with most other Exalted weaponry that deal the same base damage as it. Exalibur and Baruuk both have the base weapon and energy waves with innate punch through through all terrain, Serene Storm and Hysteria have 50% CC and  Hysteria has lifesteal, Serene Storm's waves can benefit from the combo multiplier and Exalted Blade can most easily utilize Condition Overload. Currently, Workshop Primal Fury only has potentially high status chance and high range as its attributes, not being all that unique.

 

Lastly, will Cloud Walker be able to benefit from sprint mods and other speed modifiers to enhance its movement speed?

 

We will definitely need to see this Revisit in action, but based on what is written here these are my thoughts on the matter.