Soooo the New Player Experience just completely negates The Second Dream

[JackHargreav]

Tbh It didn't occure to me that she could be a tenno. I just sat there somewhat confused.

Edited July 7, 2019 by JackHargreav

[(PSN)Ragology]

If I were a new player I think your opening post would spoil more than that trailer ever could. At least the trailer requires some knowledge of warframe lore. Your post just spoils things.

[KroneVanguard]

1 hour ago, Aldrr said:

[...]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not outraged or anything, but DE, I'd love some more context and answers, please. :3

Instead you have another boring, uninspired Nora Night's story with Space Chucky whatever. Nice deal, eh? 😐

[Viges]

I don't know who that girl was, but

prime access btw

[Oreades]

32 minutes ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

It’s only a spoiler if you know it’s a spoiler. Otherwise it’s just a weird sequence of events.

That would work IF Warframe existed in a Vacuum and IF they didn't Telegraph "This girl is a Tenno". 

Thing is Warframe does not exist in a Vacuum, transferring your consciousness is not a new or unique concept. It's pretty common in the Scifi/Fantasy genera. 

Now because people kept saying that "that isn't what happened in the scene" I went and found it on Youtube and watched it again. So I'lll go over a point by point. 

• They establish what appears to be our Protagonist
• They establish the threat of the Grineer
• The girl gets to the presumptive statues and starts placing flowers, upon each flower you get a quick flashback/lore nugget along with kind of a feeling for what each Warframe does and frankly THAT PART WAS AWESOME
• At the end of the flashbacks the line "Then they left" plays and the Warframes emit a puff of (This is important) Blue non-corporeal smoke stuff and collapse down presumptively in the position in which they are found at some indeterminate point in the future. 
• Now you have the girl kneeling in the same position across from the three Warframes, cue the dramatic face reveal and while I would not be aware what Tenno jewelry looks like without knowledge of the later game, said jewelry does heavily imply the person in question as a Tenno.
• This is then all but confirmed when the Grineer get there and the girl is no where to be seen but in her place is (remember that thing I said was important) the same blue non-corporeal smoke stuff. 
• The grineer look confused, the Warframes are struck by lightning and it is implied they spring to life. 

The literal logical conclusion with no history with the game is that the protagonists was transferred into the warframes somehow. That isn't a weird sequence of events, that is a specific and very evident series of events with a simple and based on future knowledge of the game, correct conclusion. 

The whole thing that made The second Dream work was that it came out of left field and up till that point you understood you where a Warframe/Operator but you didn't know exactly what that was. Where you a guy in a power suit? Where you transferring into them somehow? Now the game slaps you in the face right out of the gate with Yup! transferrence~ 

Now the big surprise at the end of The Second Dream isn't "OK wow so it was consciousness transfer and, OK wow I was some kid this whole time" now at best it's going to be "Oh wow I thought I was that one kid from the start but apparently I'm not?" Unless of course that operator was just a placeholder and you create them at the start of the game now. 

Which means that The Second Dream holds essentially no force, it's just a hollow, "yeah I knew that game, thanks for telling me.... again" 

 

Again there are two schools of thought that I can venture down and those are either

1. This is a seriously incomplete representation of the total changes and was poorly conveyed. 
2. They have finally decided that keeping the whole "Operators" secret is stupid and it's pointless constantly walking on eggshells trying to avoid "spoilers" that virtually everyone knows anyhow so "we aren't even going to try anymore, here they are from the start".

 

[Oreades]

46 minutes ago, (PS4)Ragology said:

If I were a new player I think your opening post would spoil more than that trailer ever could. At least the trailer requires some knowledge of warframe lore. Your post just spoils things.

People keep saying that but it literally doesn't require any knowledge of the game just basic logic and some background in general scifi/fantasy as a genera. 

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

4 hours ago, Renegade343 said:

So, basically, DE copied Titanfall's Titan shield aspect.

I'd actually be pretty ok with that. The only problem would be that the bullet catching would need to amplify the damage by at least 8x.

[(XBOX)Demon Intellect]

2 hours ago, Oreades said:

That would work IF Warframe existed in a Vacuum and IF they didn't Telegraph "This girl is a Tenno". 

Thing is Warframe does not exist in a Vacuum, transferring your consciousness is not a new or unique concept. It's pretty common in the Scifi/Fantasy genera. 

Now because people kept saying that "that isn't what happened in the scene" I went and found it on Youtube and watched it again. So I'lll go over a point by point. 

• They establish what appears to be our Protagonist
• They establish the threat of the Grineer
• The girl gets to the presumptive statues and starts placing flowers, upon each flower you get a quick flashback/lore nugget along with kind of a feeling for what each Warframe does and frankly THAT PART WAS AWESOME
• At the end of the flashbacks the line "Then they left" plays and the Warframes emit a puff of (This is important) Blue non-corporeal smoke stuff and collapse down presumptively in the position in which they are found at some indeterminate point in the future. 
• Now you have the girl kneeling in the same position across from the three Warframes, cue the dramatic face reveal and while I would not be aware what Tenno jewelry looks like without knowledge of the later game, said jewelry does heavily imply the person in question as a Tenno.
• This is then all but confirmed when the Grineer get there and the girl is no where to be seen but in her place is (remember that thing I said was important) the same blue non-corporeal smoke stuff. 
• The grineer look confused, the Warframes are struck by lightning and it is implied they spring to life. 

The literal logical conclusion with no history with the game is that the protagonists was transferred into the warframes somehow. That isn't a weird sequence of events, that is a specific and very evident series of events with a simple and based on future knowledge of the game, correct conclusion. 

The whole thing that made The second Dream work was that it came out of left field and up till that point you understood you where a Warframe/Operator but you didn't know exactly what that was. Where you a guy in a power suit? Where you transferring into them somehow? Now the game slaps you in the face right out of the gate with Yup! transferrence~ 

Now the big surprise at the end of The Second Dream isn't "OK wow so it was consciousness transfer and, OK wow I was some kid this whole time" now at best it's going to be "Oh wow I thought I was that one kid from the start but apparently I'm not?" Unless of course that operator was just a placeholder and you create them at the start of the game now. 

Which means that The Second Dream holds essentially no force, it's just a hollow, "yeah I knew that game, thanks for telling me.... again" 

 

Again there are two schools of thought that I can venture down and those are either

1. This is a seriously incomplete representation of the total changes and was poorly conveyed. 
2. They have finally decided that keeping the whole "Operators" secret is stupid and it's pointless constantly walking on eggshells trying to avoid "spoilers" that virtually everyone knows anyhow so "we aren't even going to try anymore, here they are from the start".

 

Kinda random thing to reply to in your post, but the flowers the girl places in front of the warframes are lotus flowers.

[Freezing-Dragon]

The new quest seem interesting in term for new players but, with that in mind... How does the Second dream impact again? It got me confused when that happened.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Ragology said:

If I were a new player I think your opening post would spoil more than that trailer ever could. At least the trailer requires some knowledge of warframe lore. Your post just spoils things.

 

[(PSN)Puckish_Rogue125]

8 hours ago, Oreades said:

It was kept vague enough that without an understanding of the games lore (or more aptly not knowing there was a character creator later on), I'd just assume that girl (dramatic face reveal) was controlling the Warframes and therefore my character. 

Maybe they do a better job of delivering exposition in the actual quest itself and the trailer was poorly spliced? I can only go off of what I've been shown and based on what I've been shown they're essentially retconning the best questline in the game along with Vors Prize which was pretty darn solid in it's own right. It established the mystery of your origins, it established Vor as an antagonist and the grineer in general even tho DE never really did anything with him and maybe that's why they decided to retcon him down to a pair of boss encounters? 

I can certainly hope that there is more to it than what they showed but what they showed gave me a serious Final Fantasy Advent Children vibe. As in it looked all super flashy.... and I ran out to buy it the day it released, watched it and just.... ugh. 

The more I read the more this feels like a you problem. You are jumping to conclusions based on a trailer and while it looks like most of the folks here are happy to actually wait and see what it's all about you're problem with the trailer appears to be you. Also I'm not sure how you were disappointed with FF:AV. We all know FF hasn't had a decent story since 1994.

[rand0mname]

Yeh.

While, I do not think it is not salvageable, it will takes big leaps of logic to do it.

This particular Operator is not necessarily the player Operator. Lotus does mention other Tenno who were awoken before and did not took it well. What if then Grineer started to search for frames and torch everyone who is not Grineer, Lotus tried to retaliate, but direct Transference was not working (lots of time passed)? So Lotus awoken several of her kids. Stalker Operator (and maybe others) goes berserk/mad/catatonic/whatever. The girl from GGI is one of the stable ones. Lotus sends her to find Warframes and deliver those “flowers” to reboot them. Or something.

CGI happens.

Girl is killed, or goes into Void and lost in Plains of Duviri, or do not want to fight, or Transferes into a frame and get lost in Second Dream again, or stays silent to avoid Stalker fiasco.

Before dismissing it as a load of Infested Salad (which it is), look at the pile of Infested Salad which Natah storyline is ;).

Edited July 7, 2019 by rand0mname

[xxswatelitexx]

11 hours ago, Oreades said:

Welcome to the game, your'e a space kid....... ummmm btw surprise(?) you're a space kid? 

Actually all it shows is the girl offering a "sacrafice" to the old warframes hoping they will come back to save her. 
More importantly within the first hour you make a new character you are likely going to interact with a person who switches into operator mode anyway in some mission or another.

[Kaotyke]

10 hours ago, Renegade343 said:

I was more focusing on the throwing bullets back than the general energy.

And Titanfall copied The Matrix.

[Vlada91]

Maybe with this new cinematic we can create operator from the start,with no powers but we can control frame so we just wake them up like some starter frames. In the end it whose future you mature operator back in time did this so that they can save the world and find young present you....  And then we all know what is next

[jnuh]

11 hours ago, Renegade343 said:

So, basically, DE copied Titanfall's Titan shield aspect.

 the director of the trailer put that in, and asked if mag had that skill, DE replied, she does now. that's still her current ability just being augmented from a proactive targetable skill, to a reactive skill.

[Renegade343]

26 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

And Titanfall copied The Matrix.

Well, yeah, partially. I don't think I remembered Neo shooting back the wall of bullets in that scene.

Would be cool if that happened though.

[Kaotyke]

5 minutes ago, Renegade343 said:

Well, yeah, partially. I don't think I remembered Neo shooting back the wall of bullets in that scene.

Would be cool if that happened though.

Not in the first. But I think he did that in Reloaded.

[Firetempest]

The age of operators being a spoiler has been over for a loooooong time. The social media machine that helps promote Warframe updates and prime accessories and just witnessing your first co-op game makes sure there is no hint of surprise.

Step one, new tutorial starting point in a new extension of PoE. Maybe beyond the shield, like through a cave system. 

Step two. Make up stuff to fill in gaps. Warframe lore has always been flexible.

[iLightning13]

11 hours ago, Hyro1 said:

If you actually watched the video, and heard what was being said you'd know that the kid in the video is not a space kid, just someone that found the monument why the legend of the tenno was being told

The girl was a Tenno. She had Somatic markings and disappeared. She was asleep in her Second Dream; wandering the world, and when Lotus told them to wake up, she vanished as her mind transferred into a Warframe. She's not actually there.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

11 hours ago, Renegade343 said:

So, basically, DE copied Titanfall's Titan shield aspect.

The vortex shield? My dude, that was copied off Neo xD

[Renegade343]

9 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

Not in the first. But I think he did that in Reloaded.

Yeah, so it's this scene:

He just drops all the bullets.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

From a person who knows the spoilers, to me...

We see Cetus / Earth / Plains of Eidolon featured prominently.
We see Grineer destroying a settlement, and a single person escaping. We learn that the Grineer are hunting down the last of the Tenno. (at least there seem to be some that never went to sleep.)
This one single person escapes and reaches an ancient orokin building where some Warframes were left to collect dust. (lost power, whatever, newbies don't know).
My impression of this part, was she was remembering stories she was told about the Tenno, and it was some ritualistic call for help. In this regard, the jewelry on her face could easily be attributed to being a priestess, or just fashion, or some techno-stuff in a sci-fi game. (if this person knew about the Lotus and her actions, the flowers could have been some sort of beacon tech to tell the Lotus to "Look here! I found something you might like.")

When the Grineer close in on her, and she disappears in that blue smoke, my immediate reaction/impression was that, Hey, that might be the Unum. The Quills are awoken Tenno. We already know the Unum is a "she" that Nora Night wants to know more about. The Unum leads the Quills, searching for artifacts and ancient orokin weapons, but "never leaves the tower".

Well, what if she does "leave" the tower, but only in operator void mode, that lets her just warp back to her tower real quick because that's where her Warframe is?

I always felt they were pushing toward making this "Unum" a more important character.

 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Gotta be honest with you chief I don't agree.  I can see how it's implied that she's a Tenno.  But a new player would have no idea about that.  Second dream is still important because it gives plenty of context and backround to tenno.  So even if a new player some how managed to guess that was a tenno they'd likely still want to do the second dream to learn more about them.

Personally I think since she disappeared that she "woke up" else where.  I don't believe that she's the one waking the warframe because she'd have no way of knowing how to do so or that they were something to be controlled.  I think the suit recognized the grineer threat and thus awoke on it's own.

[DeMonkey]

10 hours ago, Oreades said:

They establish what appears to be our Protagonist

This is what I think will confuse most people.

They state, iirc, "You've been sleeping" and then the camera pans out of the girls eye and shows her off. In general storytelling, this means that this is "you", your character, and the story will go from there.