Orokin Symmetry... Why are they not symmetrical anymore?

[Ammisro]

I thought it was just Ballas that is a long arm guy and not all Orokin would look like that, especially I assumed that his current form wasn't what he used to look like back in the day, because he was described as symmetrical (doubling with 'golden iris', now he doesn't even have a visible iris. I'd assume his eyes were similar to Captain Vor - connecting Orokin to Grineer as a bit of irony. Now Orokin Era Grineer have blue eyes so this is kind of debunked) Then there is this concept art of Orokin Woman so my 'new form' idea doesn't work anymore. Do DE still remember what they wrote back then? I think the designs are cool and ethereal, but why...? Having one arm longer than another is very symmetrical am I right?
 

Quote

 

"The projection of Executor Ballas swelled large in front of me. I could see his purity, his symmetry, the beauty of his glittering gold irises. His voice thundered, “The principles are clear. Your sentence is death. May the Void forgive you.”

"The Orokin had a visage imbued with variation, beauty and symmetry, but we had the Lora nodes protruding from our right temples. Their skin was silken, ours was weaved with ribbons of metallic facia that snaked around our bodies and into the Lora Device embedded in our palms."

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Ammisro

[Matheoryon]

I assume they do some very unsymmetrical things. Ballas lives like a stomach worm now, and just look at where the rest of the system is at.

[ExcaliburUmbra]

When old lore meets new intentions I guess.

Was one of my pet peeves along with the fact that we keep getting asymmetrical Prime Operator outfits. I’ve basically given up on caring though.

[rand0mname]

I was thinking something happened to Ballas after Orokin purge. Then Sacrifice was released.

And now this concept art. I guess Orokin were not that symmetrical? Seriously, what the hell happened to them if they were all blue and creepy armed? Or was it a fashion of the century?

[kyori]

DE will come out with something later to justify the mistake change.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

If you look closely at his concept art from all the way back you'd see some nodules on his elongated arms that suspiciously look like infested marks. I made this way back. Curious, isn't it?

Spoiler

 

[YazMatazO]

It's clear they want everything symmetrical(and golden) to compensate for how they look. Maybe back then it was fashionable to ingest some Infestation to look cool? Maybe that's why?

[Autongnosis]

I am assuming continuity came at a price. 

[ExcaliburUmbra]

1 hour ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

If you look closely at his concept art from all the way back you'd see some nodules on his elongated arms that suspiciously look like infested marks. I made this way back. Curious, isn't it?

Eh, don’t think they are comparable myself. Those nodules on Ballas are metallic implants similar to Operator somatics, while the marks on the Ancient are more akin to glowing eyes or sensors.

[evilChair]

1 hour ago, rand0mname said:

I was thinking something happened to Ballas after Orokin purge. Then Sacrifice was released.

And now this concept art. I guess Orokin were not that symmetrical? Seriously, what the hell happened to them if they were all blue and creepy armed? Or was it a fashion of the century?

I have 2 potential answers, mutually non-excluding: 1) the bones and generally parts of the dominant arm tend to grow more and extend, stimulated by usage over a person's lifespan (at least that's what my bass teacher told me happens with the string fingers while the fret-hand stays mostly the same length). The Orokin seemed to be able to ride out a single body for centuries if this was the design intent; 2) they probably wanted to have a bit of the "tree look" since they depended so much on their data-trees.

I'm going to assume that I'm right about 1) since the G-Queens don't seem to have the same symptoms, hence that being a side-effect.

[Oreades]

Prolly for the same reason the Grineer queens where always refereed to as identical tho there was some implied birth defect but then we got two completely non identical queens. Tho they where able to lore that away with centuries of transference and degenerating Grineer hosts. 

I'd imagine the creative process goes something like this

 

Step 1) Create written lore that sounds good.

Step 2) Some years later create some concept art that deviates from that lore but people decide to run with. 

Step 3) ???

Step 4) Prophet of profit  

[evilChair]

1 minute ago, Oreades said:

Prolly for the same reason the Grineer queens where always refereed to as identical tho there was some implied birth defect but then we got two completely non identical queens. Tho they where able to lore that away with centuries of transference and degenerating Grineer hosts. 

I'd imagine the creative process goes something like this

 

Step 1) Create written lore that sounds good.

Step 2) Some years later create some concept art that deviates from that lore but people decide to run with. 

Step 3) ???

Step 4) Prophet of profit  

I mean, writing by the seat of your pants while knowing full well that the game you started in 2013 wasn't meant to live for more than ~≤730 days, and here you are halfway through 2019 and a whole new unanticipated universe-load of lore due to freak success outta nowhere... can't blame nobody here.

[-Krism-]

Isn't that just a female portrait of Ballas? Like a fanart

[Ammisro]

3 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Isn't that just a female portrait of Ballas? Like a fanart

It's from Warframe concept artist Keith Thompson, so surely not fanart. Probably supposedly another female Orokin character.

[-Krism-]

3 minutes ago, Ammisro said:

It's from Warframe concept artist Keith Thompson, so surely not fanart. Probably supposedly another female Orokin character.

Well we know Ballas betrayed the Orokin, I thought that that was the reason why he looked like this, like he made a pact with the Duviri or something & got a new body, whatever

So maybe he's not the only one who did this

[(PSN)robotwars7]

well, dunno how true it is, but my headcanon was always that Ballas used either Orokin powers and/or cybernetic implants that gave him abilities. most notable is his ability to communicate telepathically, which he does during The Sacrifice. I believe he may also have been able to project himself as something else other than his true form for the purposes of meeting others in a professional manner (assembling The Seven), and would remove this façade when away from others or in personal meetings. perhaps Ballas does not feel as comfortable in his body as he should be, and so disguises himself with a symmetrical projection? or it could be that he may just have some kind of body double or agent that he can project his voice through (as part of his telepathic powers of course).

I'll admit I'm basically just swerving around a retcon any way I can here, it's likely that DE's design for Ballas just happened to be totally different from how he is described in the Lore and it was too late to do anything by this point.

[(XBOX)RabidGoldfish J]

There was the line about Ordan Karris suspected that his senses were being manipulated into perceiving the Orokin as perfect.  Perhaps the tenno can see through that manipulation.

[evilChair]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

well, dunno how true it is, but my headcanon was always that Ballas used either Orokin powers and/or cybernetic implants that gave him abilities. most notable is his ability to communicate telepathically, which he does during The Sacrifice. I believe he may also have been able to project himself as something else other than his true form for the purposes of meeting others in a professional manner (assembling The Seven), and would remove this façade when away from others or in personal meetings. perhaps Ballas does not feel as comfortable in his body as he should be, and so disguises himself with a symmetrical projection? or it could be that he may just have some kind of body double or agent that he can project his voice through (as part of his telepathic powers of course).

I'll admit I'm basically just swerving around a retcon any way I can here, it's likely that DE's design for Ballas just happened to be totally different from how he is described in the Lore and it was too late to do anything by this point.

Could also be that Orokin arms have an adjustable length. Ancients are often brought up when this is discussed, and those have gummy arms, so it's not unreasonable to think that Orokin arms can retract to "normal" length at will. Other ppl think that this is a hint that Ballas has started degrading into an Ancient (albeit not an infested one) by the time of his on-screen appearance.

[Diavoros]

Honestly the only live Orokin, in a Orokin body we have seen ingame is Ballas. When it comes to their architecture and ships, they are indeed quite symmetrical from left to right face and very artsy. As for Prime Warframes there are only 2 with a distinctive asymmetrical shape, Loki and Saryn.

[Loza03]

It's also possible that the Orokin, being the self-righteous a**wipes, literally altered their definition of the word to suit their needs. They're considered the gods, and live several lifetimes beyond their subjects, what's to stop them changing the language on a whim.

Alternatively, and even more horrifyingly, they jump between 'casual' and 'formal' bodies, treating them like we would clothes or makeup. They have the long hand for whatever reason when they're on their own, but when they're showing off, they slip into their formal flesh.

[ant99999]

"How can he be so perfect? A deception? A sense manipulation? He holds the Red Vial in his hand." - Cephalon Fragment #16 (Ordan Karris speaking about Ballas)

Apparently, someone already mentioned this, but whatever.

Edited July 11, 2019 by ant99999

[DrakeWurrum]

I think what was described in your quoted section was more of an avatar than his actual self.

Remember that Hitler described blonde hair and blue eyes as the pinnacle of human perfection... but did not possess those traits himself.

I believe this is a similar situation.

Edited July 11, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[Ammisro]

15 hours ago, Loza03 said:

It's also possible that the Orokin, being the self-righteous a**wipes, literally altered their definition of the word to suit their needs. They're considered the gods, and live several lifetimes beyond their subjects, what's to stop them changing the language on a whim.

Alternatively, and even more horrifyingly, they jump between 'casual' and 'formal' bodies, treating them like we would clothes or makeup. They have the long hand for whatever reason when they're on their own, but when they're showing off, they slip into their formal flesh.

With the idea of continuity I love the idea that Orokin has their personal horrifying looking 'long arm' body for whatever the use of it is. Or the body may be some sort of 'upgrade' that at one point an Orokin, born as a fairly symmetrical looking person, jumped in and become immortal in that way. Ballas wasn't yet to get his upgrade in the written lore. After that the public body are, 'harvested' from people like what the queen was speaking of Yuvan Theatre and they swap around like clothes. It fits the decadent nature of the empire.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

19 hours ago, Ammisro said:

I thought it was just Ballas that is a long arm guy and not all Orokin would look like that, especially I assumed that his current form wasn't what he used to look like back in the day, because he was described as symmetrical (doubling with 'golden iris', now he doesn't even have a visible iris. I'd assume his eyes were similar to Captain Vor - connecting Orokin to Grineer as a bit of irony. Now Orokin Era Grineer have blue eyes so this is kind of debunked) Then there is this concept art of Orokin Woman so my 'new form' idea doesn't work anymore. Do DE still remember what they wrote back then? I think the designs are cool and ethereal, but why...? Having one arm longer than another is very symmetrical am I right?
 

 

 

Wouldn’t it be some truly off-the-wall s( )( )t if we found out Orokin Executors weren’t really human AT ALL? I mean, creepy-armed Caesar Smurf?

Who knows what genetic soup they sucked down to stay on top.

We might be overlooking the obvious...

Kuva is both an Oil of Madness and Elixer of Immortality...seems like it might be in Tenno Blood or a synthetic version, yes?

Also, copies of copies ALWAYS degrade.  With Tenno-Yuvan Continuity, if the MitW had infiltrated the psyche of the executors new bodies at any time, then you have Executors using multi-generational body-hopping with each generational-jump degrading the physical and mental state of the Executor....an unwinnable race to save themselves (their sanity) from the MiTW as he forever chases them...

I wonder if the Tenno children were seen as the key to immortality...only to find that “SURPRISE!!!”, Wally had joined the party.

 

[rand0mname]

It would be so nice if someone from DE team who is responsible for lore/art would at least say if this is:

- A design choice and “symmetrical” lore is a leftover of the old days then DE themselves had no idea how Orokin looked;

- There is a reason for this, even if it is simply a reference to all that times humans done (and do) things (from unpractical to horrifying) to their (or other humans) bodies in the name of the “beauty”. Never cutting nails and hair, complex hairstyles that was uncomfortable to leave with, various piercings, stretching earlobes, lips or necks, feet bonding...

- Sense manipulation/fairy glamour failure of space Cthulhu;

- Kuva side effects;

- something else.

*grumbles

Edited July 12, 2019 by rand0mname