Talinthis Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 23 minutes ago, (PS4)Eluminary said: If it is ever nerfed what they will do is say the original description is what it was meant to do never anything more. Then it will just change so you have a 40% chance to give 25 energy to nearby allies... the sad truth is that might actually even be true it might have been a mistake from the beginning. haha never thought of that. could be another chroma fiasco where the bug has been there since inception Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodwill Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Make it only apply to teammates as per the description. Then we will see who the teamplayers are and who isn't. Edited October 30, 2019 by Goodwill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oreades Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, bibmobello said: If you had to choose only one: 1 arcane energize or energy pizzas? Both are too much. In most instances I'd choose neither because most of my builds are pretty darn self sufficient and the few that are kinda borderline I have Zenurik. Buuuut because the only occasion that it feels like I "need" energy now Now NOW, is when we get slathered with Leeching/Parasitic Eximus..... I'd have to go with Energy Pizzas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spookmineer Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said: I would like to see what the MR27 Arcane Usage spreadsheet looks like, and then ask DE why they are nerfing one of the 'best in slot' items and not the others. However, I'm not going to say that they need to get nerfed. I only want DE to be held to account for inconsistency. I'm curious about that too, just that. MR27 and haven't used it because I only have 1 from NW. I do use arcane consequence and arcane guardian though, on all frames. Even the squishy ones. It works, even if it's only between my ears 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillman74 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 What does energize do? Never used before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AoN-CanoLathra- Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Just now, sillman74 said: What does energize do? Never used before https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Arcane_Energize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnossosTNC Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, Soullessxv said: We need to see a nerf to arcane energize as well since we are nerfing things. This one arcane gives you an unlimited energy supply. And make it so only one arcane of that type can be equipped at once. You can come and take it... ...from my Ivara's cold, dead hands. She has her 3 and 4 on - the latter pointing at you... Edited October 30, 2019 by KnossosTNC Added context due to thread merge. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepychewbacca Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, T.Hoagie said: Yeah, it doesn't. At max rank it has 40-45% chance to give you a massive energy boost of around 100 extra energy per energy orb pick up. And its not worth it to just use double maxed out energizes, at least IMO. To get Arcane energize we have to run the Tridolon bounty, it has around a 5% drop chance, and you have to CAPTURE the Hydrolist, not kill it or it won't drop it. RNG pretty much ensures that you're gonna be running this bounty A LOT to max out Arcane energize if you don't just drop Plat for it to spare yourself the work. In short, it takes either a lot of work or plat to get this. OP is either trolling or just outright lying and should be nerfed instead. Thank goodness I got my sets from the days of JV. Most of the time, the host did all the work. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkstormz Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I know this is a rage post about catchmoon but energize isnt unlimited energy is just has a chance to give you extra when you grab an orb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.Hoagie Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 hours ago, sleepychewbacca said: Thank goodness I got my sets from the days of JV. Most of the time, the host did all the work. XD Remind me what JV is again, I'm drawing a blank. Either way, my point is to get the blasted things you either need to put in a lot of work based around RNG, and getting competent teams, or you pay for it. These idiotic cries for nerfs are getting beyond annoying. Cripes, this really is trying to turn into a repeat of Mass Effect 3's multiplayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I'd say the only Arcane to really need a nerf is grace and then it'd be more of a change it to a flat number and not a percentage due to how busted it can get with Inaros and likely the upcoming Grendel. Energize would be the next on the list but i don't think it's like really broken. maybe lower the amount of extra energy it gives by a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepychewbacca Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, T.Hoagie said: Remind me what JV is again, I'm drawing a blank. Either way, my point is to get the blasted things you either need to put in a lot of work based around RNG, and getting competent teams, or you pay for it. These idiotic cries for nerfs are getting beyond annoying. Cripes, this really is trying to turn into a repeat of Mass Effect 3's multiplayer. Jordas Verdict. It was an old gamemode that got removed, along with the Law of Retribution. Back then you could only get 3 Arcanes a day, but a competent squad could do the mission reasonably fast. Think it took me about... 2-3 months when I started playing to get my Grace, Energize and Barrier sets complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.Hoagie Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 3 hours ago, sleepychewbacca said: Jordas Verdict. It was an old gamemode that got removed, along with the Law of Retribution. Back then you could only get 3 Arcanes a day, but a competent squad could do the mission reasonably fast. Think it took me about... 2-3 months when I started playing to get my Grace, Energize and Barrier sets complete. Okay, so this was before I started playing. That makes sense, I remember people have stated Warframe used to have like 4 or so revives a day, stuff like that. And then the Arcanes were locked behind raids, until they were added to the Eidolon loot pool once raids were retired. But yeah, 2-3 months to get those sets completed with only 3 a day?. You must have been at it like crazy, I lost count how many basic Eidolon runs I did to max out simple arcanes like Nullifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Double991 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Goodwill said: Make it only apply to teammates as per the description. Then we will see who the teamplayers are and who isn't. Well being a walking e-vamp isn't so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)COA Altair Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said: I'd say the only Arcane to really need a nerf is grace and then it'd be more of a change it to a flat number and not a percentage due to how busted it can get with Inaros and likely the upcoming Grendel. Energize would be the next on the list but i don't think it's like really broken. maybe lower the amount of extra energy it gives by a bit. Inaros is not a valid reason to nerf grace. On top of that, grace < energize on almost every frame in the game. If you want to nerf how well inaros survives you aren't looking at just grace either, you're looking at magus elevate, magus repair, adaptation, how much damage reduction his armor gives you, arcane guardian...there's no way they're going to nerf all these things just so inaros is a worse tank. If you make energize only apply to others then things get really ugly really fast. All these calls for nerfs are getting old already. Seems all people want are nerfs now, but just the other week people were *@##$ing about their riven mods getting nerfed. Seems people don't get that the majority of the playerbase do not like nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.Dust Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 It's allowed to be op because not enough people own it for it to be seen as a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonthetenno Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Well, we learned one thing Riven can't balance the game. With riven or not, OP is OP until the nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Fluffins Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 12 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said: It's not that it outclasses everything in its class... its class stinks, IMO, and I don't really consider the rest worth anything. It's a decorative option on my character at this point. Catchmoon made it a game-worthy slot that actually contributed to occasional use (when I wasn't meleeing). It's not really a balance issue... it was a weapon that served a function before, and now will not. As a person who Melee's 99% of the time anyway, it's not going to hurt me as a player... I just see this as a giant balance faux pas... balance due to popularity, failing to see the reasons it was good, and bringing other options up to its level (or creating a middleground) ... right now, it was the 1 good secondary that I considered worth using... (even if I have STRONGER weapons than it was...) I used to use the Arca Plasmor to clear out hordes of weak enemies, but it was pitifully weak as a primary weapon and was projectile based, so it was pathetic against targets at a great distance that liked moving around (like Dargyns)... so the Catchmoon picked up that function for me, so I could replace my primary with a hitscan weapon for boss weakpoints and Dargyns. Totally a utilitarian thing for me, as I said. I can take out 99% of enemies with my melee (never even used spin2win, so this melee change is all buffs to me - never relied on the combo meter), and the Catchmoon is being relegated to melee range, essentially. IMO, their decision is neutering a weapon and nothing is really there to replace it. The Accelatra or whatever new secondary isn't going to be entering my arsenal either - I don't do self-damage capable weapons - and that's about the only other secondary anybody has suggested that might fill its old role for me. Acceltra is a primary, akarius is a secondary. So I guess in your game things like pyrana prime, akstilleto prime, aklex prime, arca scisco, akjagara prime, vaykor marelok, staticor, sonicor, synoid gammacor, quatz, and some others do not exist... There are many good secondaries that can complement certain primaries (especially if you are using a poorly scaling primary like Arka, or a single target weapon like opticor, vectis, rubico) or even be good enemy clearing weapons on their own. But on a note more related to the main post, I am becoming more and more convinced that the reason catchmoon had such usage numbers was purely due to killing arbitration drones, and not because it was some godlike best in slot weapon (in my opinion it wasn't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortCat Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 14 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: I'm not sure how the case is closed. Arbitrations can be considdered as the hardest content in the game, if majority chooses primary Catchmoon to beat this content, the messege is clear. And please stop trying to discredit or badmouth presented numbers, your arguments against them make no sense. Not only because you are a meta rider with Catchmoon being the most used weapon with most kills across all weapons on your account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urlan Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 minute ago, ShortCat said: Arbitrations can be considdered as the hardest content in the game, if majority chooses primary Catchmoon to beat this content, the messege is clear. And please stop trying to discredit or badmouth presented numbers, your arguments against them make no sense. Not only because you are a meta rider with Catchmoon being the most used weapon with most kills across all weapons on your account. A 'meta-rider' would be someone that uses conditional mods like the acolytes, condition overload, and other interesting boosts that work only in forced situations. One of the things they try to hammer into folk in Statistics is that just because you present numbers in a way that supports your argument doesn't mean that you are telling the full story, just that you are using some numbers to look pretty. How often were those catchmoon's in the spread sheet used by each of those players? How many of those weapons were sporting lens (meaning those players had to use those weapons for their affinity)? How many were sporting rivens other investment journeys as DE Rebecca once phrased rivens? What kind of missions were those weapons all used in, and against what foes? For that 50% usage to matter, more of those questions need to be answered to give a better idea of why a catchmoon would need a nerf versus other weapons getting a pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)AyinDygra Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Mr.Fluffins said: So I guess in your game things like pyrana prime, akstilleto prime, aklex prime, arca scisco, akjagara prime, vaykor marelok, staticor, sonicor, synoid gammacor, quatz, and some others do not exist... I haven't given the Staticor and Sonicor catalysts and forma to get really "good" builds on them, to see if they'll be "good enough" (sonicor might fit the bill)... we'll see... but no, most of the guns on your little list there are terrible, in my experience, usage-wise. They don't feel good to use, for me. They might be strong, but they're not filling the role I need them to feel. If I need a strong secondary, I have my Tombfinger+riven, as I said. It's not about "strong"... it's about easily killing off the little flying enemy that's just hovering out of reach of my melee, or killing the ancient healer that's sitting behind a pack of nearly immortal fodder that I can't reach with my melee... I don't need "strong" for the utility I'm using my secondary for, and I don't expect to be changing my primary weapon. I hate the Opticor, usage-wise, and while I'd appreciate more ammo in the Rubico, it's the most comfortable weapon for me to use for the Primary slot's purpose of killing distant targets with a hit-scan weapon, and the weak spots of bosses with the power needed to take them down. If melee could do it all, I'd just melee, since melee is a lot more fun to me. The catchmoon fulfilled its role comfortably. Now, it won't. Not because of a lack of damage, but because of its functionality. I mean, obviously, if it lacked in damage too much, it wouldn't fill its role either (it has to kill what I point at), but as I said earlier, I might just keep using the Catchmoon in its nerfed state, just to mess with their numbers, because it's just irritating me. (bad decisions like this get under my skin) and I really don't use my guns very often. (very niche cased, where melee doesn't suffice.) Spoiler some usage stats for reference: Much of my "single-mindedness" has been due to a limited amount of slots, so I kept my options few, leveling most as mastery fodder and immediately trashing them to make room for more. I'd probably have a wider range of percentage usage if I could just make and keep everything... which is likely the case with a lot of people who don't spend much plat on this game. Primary: Arca Plasmor: 35.7%, (29,724 kills) Rubico Prime: 13.2% (4,894 kills) Hek: 2.8% Braton: 2.5% MK-1 Strun: 2.5% (144 kills) MK-1 Braton: 2.1% (543 kills) Penta: 1.7% (don't know why... 149 kills) Ignis Wratih: 1.4% (3,534 kills) Vectis Prime: 1.3% (293 kills) Everything else is under 1% Secondary: Highest: Tombfinger, 40.6% 28,135 kills (it also has a focus lens in it that I need more than the catchmoon's lens. And I HATE using it...) Next: Cycron: 7.4%, 199 kills Catchmoon: 6% (4,508 kills) (also has a focus lens, so I'd have it on my loadout for just that) Azima: 2.6% 36 kills ... just had it on... Akmagnus: 2.5% (599 kills) did most of the star chart with this, because it was free with a booster pack I got. Kunai; 2.4% (225 kills) Aklato 1.6% Fusilai: 1.5% Furis: 1.2% Everything else is under 1% Melee (no spin2win, no berserker, no maiming strike - all coming melee changes are buffs to my builds) Orthos Prime: 33.7% (176,163 kills) Orthos: 25.9%: (174,179 kills, cleared most of the star chart with this.) Plague Kripath: 13.8% (75,496 kills) Sarpa: 2.3% (only use it for armor stripping eidolons) (I have several I have yet to try, but lack weapon slots or the resources to build them, such as Oxium and Cryotic, now that Alerts no longer exist) Everything else is under 1% 1,560 hrs, 7,988 missions 243,487 grineer, 206,088 infested, 131,303 corpus, 89,530 corrupted, 3,984 sentient, 4051 other kills total. Most of the gun usage came AFTER melee update 2.9999... when my beloved quick-attack melee disappeared... so Tombfinger picked up a few more kills than I'd usually attribute to a gun. Edited October 30, 2019 by (PS4)AyinDygra Added my usage stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Fluffins Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said: stuff What I might suggest for you is to in a way "replace" catchmoon with arka or fulmin (as far as I know, they can fill the same role) and pick a strong single-target secondary apart from tombfinger, if you don't like it. But yeah, I don't think there is a replacement for catchmoon amond secondaries in terms of its arb drone killing utility (maybe staticor or sonicor). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numerikuu Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, Soullessxv said: Of course I am mad it got nerfed. I spent countless hours blowing countless kuva, using lots of plat on different catchmoon rivens, and now all is just a waste of time and money. So why bother playing this game investing in anything else when it will probably get nerfed? I would rather play something else instead of wasting time here. Buy a riven for 800p then week latter they nerf item and riven cant even sell for half price now, how would you feel? Doesn't even matter anymore, ill just delete all my crap and move to another game. Foresight. You lack it. Anyone with it knew that weapon was going to be nerfed a year ago. It's still going to be a good sidearm, it's just not going to be a room nuker any more--as it never should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syasob Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Soullessxv said: Of course I am mad it got nerfed. I spent countless hours blowing countless kuva, using lots of plat on different catchmoon rivens, and now all is just a waste of time and money. So why bother playing this game investing in anything else when it will probably get nerfed? I would rather play something else instead of wasting time here. Ok, nice, so your're just blaming the game for your bad decision. Rivens are meant to change: most popular become worse, less popular become better. Catchmoon was too OP to stay this way so it got nerfed. And there's still a good chance for another nerf with next Prime Access. Btw, would you mind explaining what does Arcane Energize have to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepychewbacca Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 22 minutes ago, Syasob said: Btw, would you mind explaining what does Arcane Energize have to do with it? OP is mad his shiny is getting nerfed, and wants something else that is equally used across the board to be nerfed as well. This is probably so that more people will rant and rave at DE, and there will somehow be karmic balancing. 39 minutes ago, Soullessxv said: Oh wait, already did... So, why are you still here? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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