(PC) The Old Blood General Feedback

[SnowWarFr]

While I know you guys have been at hard work with this mainline update, there has been some items that were a hit and a miss, DE. One of these items is the Vauban Rework, which many mid-level to high-level content players consider " a rework that was a disappointment." 

One of the biggest issues that surfaces when players talk about Vauban is his slow cast-speed for his abilities, particularly his Orbital Strike (Number 3). Because its cast is quite slow, planning on when and where to place the beacon is difficult in a fast-paced game. Rahetalius, a Warframe-renowned player for particularly maining as Vauban, created a review video of Vauban in which he said that the cast for his 3rd and 4th ability are too delayed to be effective, even with [Natural Talent] - a mod that speeds up the cast time of abilities.

 

Like Rahetalius, the players expressed in this thread has expressed their concerns on the cast-time for Vauban. It would be a good action to rectify this flaw on your side.

 

From Rahetalius, he also addressed his dissatisfaction on Minelayer, Vauban's 2nd ability. While Overdrive is a quality mine, Tether Coil, Flechette Orb, and Vector Pad requires change. The Tether Coil has great potential as a CC mine, but that is limited by the amount of enemies it can grab. A good fix to this would be to allow the enemy cap to scale with a power strength mod.  For the Flechette Orb, dps is slow in contrast to nearly all primary and secondary weapons in Warframe, as demonstrated in Rahetalius' video at 7:24. The best fix to this would be to increase the base damage output to allow it to function as an AOE mine. Finally, Rahetalius showed great disdain for Vector Pad. He reviewed the ability only usable for two used: "Interception and to trolling teammates". I agree with his call that Vector Pad should be replaced with a more beneficial mine. The only true purpose of that ability as of now is to entertain new users of Vauban for one hour as that is clearly more beneficial to the players and others instead of eliminating enemies.

Vauban's rework was an injustice.  Whenever the time arrives, the errors addressed in this feedback must be rectified at the earliest opportunity you are able to.

[Sir_Pyrrho]

I don’t know if this was meant or not but the new combo counter and the balancing done to combo counter based mods(great idea in theory) has messed up my red crit stick and made the weapons and zaws I invested my Time in less effective. My normal damage on my melee has gone from ~150,000 to 15,000 at max. The only mod I used that change was blood rush, but that’s a difference I’m not entirely ecstatic about. 
 

 Maybe make blood rush the same mod as before but make the combo counter build up slower as to keep the changes from this update and not make the time spent making this change all for nothing?

[AreeSoothsayer]

Recycle KUVA weapons

 

We get copies of the same weapons while trying to get the ones we don't have. Sell for credit? Meh, not worth the trouble then. They are made with Kuva. So make a machine that will break down duped weapons into their Kuva. If they have put effort into leveling their MR then all the Forma and even potato would increase the amount of Kuva you get out of it.

[DrProfSirCarmen]

The Kuva Lich are overall a great addition to warframe but like most things need a bit more filling out and refining. The first and most major problem is that their are no responses to their attrition other then slaying them and the second is that converting is frankly kinda useless. I believe taking some more notes from the purpose of conversion in the original nemesis system would be the best solution,

Converting vs Slaying lich should be more of a utilitarian decision rather then just based on whether you want their signature weapon or not. I believe something along the lines of them controlling attrition and supporting your efforts by allowing them to do some of the more menial aspects: namely collecting murmurs, wresting back control of sectors and stealing their own loot. Basically, converting should represent and reward a way of fighting the Lich in the same way they try and fight us; with an army of underlings rather then just being a binary decision based on how much you want a weapon.

[Hello]

Was it supposed to be intended that the Vasca Kavat counts as a revive when healing me? Being a solo player, I obviously never had revived someone so I hadn't progressed in the achievements related to it. However last night the first time the kavat revived me and I got the achievement (in game and on Steam) for reviving 1 ally. It never happened again after that first revive.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

Can we please sell Kuva for a credit a piece? I don’t have an use for all this red crap and selling rerolls for plat is against ToS. And even if i weren’t against ToS, no one would pay for it anyways.

[xcatdarkness]

overall i think this update is a good direction but i have notes

> Combo counter should glow with the same colour from the heavy attacks slam to help train the player to associate the two, as it currently feels misleading and is not directly explained in game.(if combo counter is not changed to affect main attacks as well) 

>heavy attacks feel slower than they need to be, a small increase in base charge time would see them being used more.

>i do not like combo counter not directly affecting the damage output of the main attacks & would like to see it benefit damage output in at-least a small capacity

>natural combo decay is good
>stances need work (see community comments, not currently a personal problem) 

 

[Arn_Magnusson1]

Please make blood rush as good as it was before i dont like it and then you just are buffing condition overlaod. But its still a good update it is just my and one of my friend personal opinion hope you guys will revert blood rush 🙂

[SteelSoldier]

The rng behind the elemental modifiers seems to be a little too much, I have converted 4 kuva lich so far since most of them had weapons with a 25% bonus, I think it would be more interesting if we could recycle their weapons to use as an upgrade system for the kuva weapons that we have or that we want to use the most, the main issue with kuva liches right now is that there is no proper way of mitigating the rng and we need more ways of mitigating it for it to feel better.

Kuva Liches should also have more roles other than just randomly appearing in missions, maybe they could run recon missions and deliver you Murmurs or Kuva, maybe they could be setup as engineers and they would help you improve your current kuva weapons or even help repair your requiem mods, maybe they occasionally appear right before the kuva lich instagibs you and block the incoming attack(seriously how cool would that be), officer kuva liches that occasionally send thralls to help you out when they can't do it themselves.

[HammerJuice]

Dear DE I feel that the new lich update is great Buuut. It's just way to grindy. While the content is fun. It's just, slowed way down by the low drop-rate kuva mods, Random chances of getting the right one or even a drop chance of a relic. Lich blocks in groups. Mumurs/followers are also very low per kill. Getting them in the right order after you have it all. After all that we only get 3 charges per mod. Then it starts all over again. Is there anyone else that feel this is way too much of grind just to get a Kuva weapon?

[HeartPurity]

Kuva Lich system is fun, far better than the raid but the problem is there is too much RNG. I think we can raise it to 5 times instead of 3 times charges for the parazon mods. 

[Pithos-of-Mythos]

I'm going to focus on what is probably my biggest gripe with this update.

I personally feel that having both MR and additional capacity tied to formaing weapons that you can potentially find objectively better versions of is a bad design decision because it sets the player up for disappointment.

Now this is obviously about the Kuva Lich weapons, but let me get into more detail as to why i believe it is a poor idea to incentivize putting 5 whole forma onto Kuva weapons.
Let's say a player finds a weapon they like with an elemental bonus they like, the game right now encourages them to invest 5 forma into this weapon as soon as possible because they both need to invest 5 forma to get the whole MR reward and they also get higher capacity (which is extremely useful now that we have the weapon exilus slots).
However unless the weapon they found by chance had the absolutely highest elemental bonus damage that is possible to roll, there is a higher than 0% chance that sooner or later they will come across the same weapon with better stats. Simply higher elemental damage tends to be flat out better because our ips status effects aren't all that desirable to get on a status focused weapon, and on a crit or damage focused weapon you'd just enjoy the simply higher damage.
If this occurs it puts the player in a less then desirable position. They either decide to take the new weapon and start the process of applying 5 forma on the weapon again, in which case they feel like the previous 5 forma and likely the catalyst were a waste. Or decide against taking the new weapon and are sacrificing an objective advantage simply because they do not want to bother paying these resources and investing the time again.
On top of the that the player might feel like in either case it was their mistake, however they could also end up feeling like the game pushed them to invest into a suboptimal option. One let's the player feel bad about themselves the other bad about the game design. Once again neither is a desirable position to get your players into but i think the player blaming only themselves for making a suboptimal choice would be better here.

Now if the game didn't incentivize us so much to put something ridiculous like 5 forma and a catalyst into a weapon that might be replaced, the decision to do so would feel more like a calculated risk for the player. And sometimes risks simply don't pay out.

I'd also like to add that players could make a much more informed choice on whether or not to invest into a Kuva weapon if we knew exactly how high the elemental bonus could actually go.
I've seen bonuses up to 49% personally, so i'd hazard a guess and say 50% is likely the highest possible roll. Whether or not that is the same for all the different Kuva weapons and elements remains a complete mystery for me though. Such information is crucial for players to make an informed decision to invest both their resources and time.


Other than that a smaller issue is that these Liches that are supposed to be our nemesis feel completely removed from the rest of the game. I think it would be better to make Liches able to attack us in normal missions (as something of a hard miniboss, like stalker but worse) and make it possible to find informants as more rare spawns all across the system. This would allow for a more passive approach of dealing with the Liches similar to how you just passively progress in nightwave even without checking the challenges.
Having a dedicated method to deal with them faster (their controlled sectors and mid to high level missions) should still be an option though to allow those willing to farm them to do just that and allow those that get inconvenienced by the areas the Lich takes control of, to have a way to get rid of them quicker.
I also think that both the rate at which Liches get agitated and the rate at which we get murmurs need fine tuning. And giving us at least hints as to the order of the Requiem mods would be a good idea as well, because right now even if we know all 3 mods it could still theoretically cost us 6 tries to find the right order, which would lead to Liches reaching rank 5 quite often despite us trying our best to kill them as fast and efficiently as we can.

Overall i think this update was a step in the right direction for the game overall and i like that the people at DE tried their hand at something rather new, however it needs a lot of fine tuning before i could call this update truly good.
Thank you everyone that got this far for taking the time to read this wall of text. Happy hunting to all you Lich murderers and enemies of the crown out there.

[MetalGrayFox]

Would it be possible to bring back Companions to the first page of the loadout as an option to players please?
Considering when you change pets this un-equips companions without auto-filling that slot with another companion (annoying if you tend to switch loadouts from navigation screen), it is quite easy to miss the fact you are now running missions without a companion. 

As a quick gear check before loading into a mission, I would very much appreciate the option to see my companion on the same page as my Warframe + weapons. 

 

Side note, when will there be an update to end stasis so we can just keep all our pets out as options? They don't all need to be on the orbiter running around, maybe player can choose one to run around orbiter as some form of decoration to maintain the current appearance. This 30 second delay between switching pets can be easily solved but yet remains to never be addressed. Also not being able to use a pet as another is incubating seems like a silly idea and should be removed. Just more unnecessary time gating solved by platinum. Hope to see a change with this part of the game soon. 

[enemystand]

I would like to sacrifice a weapon to increase the elemental bonus of the same weapon type by 2~5 % each weapon, till they reach the maximum of 60% bonus
example you got a kuva tonkor with 30% electric bonus and feed it another kuva tonkor with 25% electric bonus, to get a kuva tonkor with a 32% or 35% electric bonus, the weapon that is getting upgrade should keep their formas and orokin catalyst.
the cost to perform the upgrade should be a reasonable amount of kuva

[Zrima]

As it stands, the weapon you get from the lich can vary too much in stats.

It's terrible when you see that your brand new lich has a terrible, badly rolled weapon in its hands, and you know you're going to grind really hard to fight it and gain almost nothing in return, just the fact that it will stop stealing from you.

-----------------

Just going to add to this post rather than make a new one. Here's how I discovered liches & the old blood yesterday, and you will see that most of the problems come from a lack of information, on top of RNG :

 

Learns how to make a lich, go to Sedna to make a lich with Grendel, after leveling him up a little. Hurray, it has a Kuva Kohm, I love the Kohm.

-> But by making a lich with Grendel, it's an impact based Kohm, making it far less desireable. I did not know which Warfame would give which bonus, it was not written in game, nor is it logical on paper (Atlas toxin, Oberon Toxin...).

That's ok, i'll convert the lich! I grind real hard to have the desired Relics and Parazon Mod, failed multiple time (great source of frustration there), and finally, after dying 8+ times (another source here), I figured the right combination, and converted the lich.

Onto the next one then! This time, I go and kill the maggot with Khora, I want a poison one. Kuva Karak. THat's way less interesting but ok. Cue more grind, more death, and finally beating the lich.

The weapon has a nice status and crit chance, I potato it, and try it in some missions. Then I go to reddit, only to discover that the bonus on Kuva weapons can go up to 60% and more.

-> Mine was 25%, one of the worst possible, waste of a potato then.

That's... alright, I have hope for the next one. Go to Uranus, get no Maggot (did you know that killing too many enemies after the light flickering would make it flee? I did not, at the time.), Go to Sedna. Kuva Kraken, with 25% bonus. I now know that I will have to grind really hard for absolutely nothing except getting rid of this lich.

And then I went to bed, disgruntled.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Zrima

[Tenc-w]

Some feed back and just thinking out loud regarding the new Lich update.

First I do like the update and melee changes but things I haven’t enjoyed so far:

• Being forced to use affinity on death when trying to figure out Lich mod order. (I really don’t like this considering this all ready stops me from trying to learn other frames I struggle to survive with. Why can't it just be 3 deaths and you are out just in general?)
•  Filling a Requiem Murmur takes way too long.
• If you find the correct order of two mods then fill a Requiem Murmur later (to rub salt in the wound) it will tell you what mod you need that you all ready know about and have tested instead of letting you know what the last mod required is.
• There’s no opt out option I can see.

I do really like the idea of the Lich system and getting a ephemera if the Lich has one. (especially since I missed out on the drop for the lotus ephemera during TennoCon due to stream crashes, bad internet and browser refreshing) so more cosmetics are always welcome.

There has been some funny moments fighting the Lich but apart from that I’m struggling to enjoy it because it feels more forced, very long grinds, endless kuva missions and all attention required on this and not at my own pace for the limited time I do get to log in and play. To sum it up it feels like I have been forced out of my game to play this new mode designed for higher MR players looking for new content. I use to hardly ever do any kuva syphon missions but now it’s being rammed down my throat to stop this spreading virus taking over all the maps. Not that I wasn’t interested in the kuva syphon missions but just wanted to focus on other parts of the game first because there is SO much content in the game for a relativity new-ish player.

To sum up this whole woe is me ramble. It would be really nice if you could change the Lich spawn locations to Kuva syphon missions instead of it just being active all the time from Grineer 20+ that way you can still have different born locations for the Lich but avoid getting one if you don't want one.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Tenc-w
less pointless ramble

[tomrair]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Zrima:

Learns how to make a lich, go to Sedna to make a lich with Grendel, after leveling him up a little. Hurray, it has a Kuva Kohm, I love the Kohm.

-> But by making a lich with Grendel, it's an impact based Kohm, making it far less desireable. I did not know which Warfame would give which bonus, it was not written in game, nor is it logical on paper (Atlas toxin, Oberon Toxin...).

Funny thing about this is that it completely contradicts DE's own stated policy on mission design.

DE has said on numerous occasions that they don't want the players to be limited in their choices of frames and weapons. So, if a mission required you to have exactly that frame or this weapon, DE changed the game. Last time this happened was with Nekros and the other drop-chance enhancing frames (Hydroid, Khora etc.). Official reason for the change was: This requires you, the players, to go into the mission with a Nekros/Pilfering Hydroid setup since nothing else is viable, and we at DE don't like that.

Which is a valid point, perfectly reasonable.

But now with the way Kuva weapons are generated, they've completely gone against their own principles, since if you want a weapon with the bonus x, you have to do the Lich-generating mission with frame y. And let's not even try to pretend that all weapon bonus types are equally good - everybody knows that impact and magnetic are inferior. Players will now avoid doing Grineer missions with the warframes that generate these bonus types, because they don't want to end up with sub-par Kuva weapons.

What DE should have done instead was to give the Kuva weapons bonuses with fixed stat numbers, basically like prime / vandal / wraith weapons, so that you'd always get a weapon with let's say an additional 60% extra damage. That's basically one small elemental mod for free.

And then the type of the bonus damage should be the highest damage type of the weapon that you used to kill the lich larveling with. So you killed him with a weapon that had a lot of slash damage? You get a Kuva weapon with slash bonus. Your weapon had tons of corrosive damage? The Kuva weapon gets bonus corrosive. And so on.

That system would a) make sense (the Lich remembers what killed him, and now uses that aginst you), and b) make sure that the player gets the type of bonus damage that he likes, since he modded his weapon for it, while c) not giving anybody an unfair advantage over other players  just because he got lucky with rng.

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by tomrair
typo

[Hekkatos]

can you separate the relics and mods from the cosmetics in the bundle? I don't want to be paying extra in a bundle for items I can earn in game, especially when it feels like I'm endorsing p2w.

[Myscho]

Can we get other missions for Requiem fissure than Rescue and Survival

And can you remove necessary use of 5 formas to get Kuva weapons to rank 40, because its wasting formas, i get that on Paracesis - its something special against Sentient, but why Kuva weapons ? Most of them are just sidegrades and mastery fodders

Edited November 4, 2019 by Myscho

[Fiedra]

The Lich Hunter Bundle is not a great look; in my opinion the requiem mods should be bundled separately from the cosmetics, and the cosmetics should be separated into smaller bundles.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Chicadino

[Kontrollo]

Only some quick feedback as of now: I quite like the things the things you added and changed, but they definitely need polish.

Sole exception: the melee changes are pretty broken in the Conclave and make it a very unfun experience for me.

[Aquebus]

The mod "Untraceable" should renew every time a hack is complete. It would be useful for mission like rescue where invisibility could help determine some extra affinity gain.

[G0D5peed]

Melee feedback. 
heavy attacks feel clunky, just like the old charge attacks. A proposed change: an alt melee key that has a slower separate attack speed stat. That way you can work them into combos. As well as pairs the heavy attacks with stance bonuses. For more fluidity and high skill ceiling. 

The heavy attack efficiency. I havent found a scenario where using them is more beneficial than keeping the combo counter up. Using full Combo build and running zenurik for efficiency the dps really doesn’t compare to regular attacks. 

Lift is cool!!! Is there anyway to reduce the flight speed on the lifted enemies? Depending on what animation to hit them with in your combo you can throw them out of your melee range. 
 

thanks DE! 

[G0D5peed]

On 2019-11-03 at 7:36 AM, SnowWarFr said:

From Rahetalius, he also addressed his dissatisfaction on Minelayer, Vauban's 2nd ability. While Overdrive is a quality mine, Tether Coil, Flechette Orb, and Vector Pad requires change. The Tether Coil has great potential as a CC mine, but that is limited by the amount of enemies it can grab. A good fix to this would be to allow the enemy cap to scale with a power strength mod.  For the Flechette Orb, dps is slow in contrast to nearly all primary and secondary weapons in Warframe, as demonstrated in Rahetalius' video at 7:24. The best fix to this would be to increase the base damage output to allow it to function as an AOE mine. Finally, Rahetalius showed great disdain for Vector Pad. He reviewed the ability only usable for two used: "Interception and to trolling teammates". I agree with his call that Vector Pad should be replaced with a more beneficial mine. The only true purpose of that ability as of now is to entertain new users of Vauban for one hour as that is clearly more beneficial to the players and others instead of eliminating enemies.

Vauban's rework was an injustice.  Whenever the time arrives, the errors addressed in this feedback must be rectified at the earliest opportunity you are able to.

Minelayer is a mobile option. That’s it. I loathe when people think ever ability has to be top tier. 
vecter pad is trash I’ll give you that. However the other mines all serve adequate purpose. Tether coil- isolated cc, flechette orb- dmg reduction and a free status for CO, Overdrive- dmg boost. 

hardly an “injustice”... that’s a bit much. 
 

Edited November 4, 2019 by RL_Grymes
Grammar fix

[SkyWitch]

I think that if you play the Old Blood update at a slower and more natural pace then it is pretty fun. I'm still on my first Lich. I enjoy our little back-and-forths. He's more than just a loot pinata to me. Really enjoy the interactions with them. 

BUT!

The amount of RNG is way over the top. Even by Warframe standards. Especially on the weapons. I like the idea of customizable weapons. But, we already have Zaws for that. Do we really need weapons of the same name that can objectively be worse just because you rolled low? That's an ARPG mechanic and doesn't have a place in Warframe in my opinion. Especially with how long it takes to get one if you're not devoting your life and time exclusively to Liches and buying plat bundles for it. I also really enjoy playing Titania. So, am I just SoL on weapons and have to accept that most of them will be Cold simply because I like Titania? Seems a little unfair. 

Please normalize weapon stats and elements. This isn't Diablo (how about that D4 though!?) where I can farm a boss and kill it in a few seconds. I like the idea that Liches are a part of the game that shakes things up. All of this RNG and grinding it takes to get an RNG weapon is just going to push players to the point where either they farm the Liches to death and completely skip over the chance to have any kind of bond with them. Or, they'll farm the Liches to death to the point they no longer want to play Warframe. We've already seen a lot of that. 

Very possible that I'm just misunderstanding how the new weapons work in regards to stats. If a weapon has a Weapon Bonus of 40% and it's objectively weaker than a weapon with a Weapon Bonus of 50%, then I'm completely against the system. I just want a weapon I can invest into. 

 

Edit: To clarify. I think the pacing and the Lich system is okay if you let it happen more naturally. I don't think the reward system for the current pacing is okay. Either one should change and I prefer if the rewards did since I like the Liches outside of the rewards. 

ALSO! May Titania have a Parazon finisher in Razorwing? She can fly straight through the enemy's back and pop out the other side. It would be cool! 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Banette