Update 26: The Old Blood

[AnhurShu]

There is a lot to like about this update so please don't take my issues below as an indication of a lack of appreciation.

1. Bugs, of course every update has bugs but this one seems to have a lot more than usual, but I do expect this will be taken care of eventually. On a personal note, please fix the Gladiator mod set, it isn't working at all and I've tested it on multiple weapons.

2. Condition Overload, this is just depressing, but I can accept your reasoning behind the nerf.

3. Reach, this is maybe my biggest issue, so far, I can appreciate that you wanted to improve the situation for shorter range weapons but this change just sucks for longer range weapons. For example, Wukong's Iron Staff should not feel like it does now with Primed Reach with a range around 6. Just consider the lore, which you based his rework off of, in folklore Sun Wukong's staff was as long as the planet, that does not equate to a range of around 6. My suggestion would be to either take an additional pass on the longer range weapons and buff their base ranges or add additional mods to the game that give the option for using the old system. This would be similar to how companion health/armor/shields work, where you have the option for either the link mods or the base percentage mods. 

4. The Kuva Lich system seems cool, in theory. I haven't gone into it yet really, because I was waiting for more hotfixes, but seriously, how many layers of grind did you need to put into this system? Relic Farming, which we really didn't need an additional tier of, it just adds to the headache of trace farming and management, which was already a headache. Please tell me Liches being able to steal your relics is a bug. If not, allowing Kuva Liches to steal away the things needed to defeat them is a step too far.

5. Grendel, this one I don't expect any change on but please, in the future, don't wall away new frames in Arbitrations.

[SjurWarEagle]

Bugreport

"Harrow System not listed in rrecovered items"

Hi, I noticed a small bug with the recovered items you see when killing your Lich.

My lich stole the Harrow System I was farming with someone.
This was the first time the lich stole items.
The Harrow System was not listed in the result page after the mission, but it was recovered.

 

I'm not missing anything as far as I can see, all items and relics are there, just the list seems to have a visual glitch.

[XUANYET]

我希望你们出一个可以放弃的方法，我现在已经陷入死循环，击杀不了玄骸boss，boss每次都会夺去我的材料，这样玩起来还有什么意义，没有一点成就感，还总是被虐，如果不出放弃机制，下一步考虑卸载游戏退坑等等

[01thanatos10]

On 2019-10-31 at 1:58 PM, GA-Bulletproof said:

A little melee feedback:

Stances - great

Animations - great

New Combo Counter - Absolute crap. Gunblades are trash now. The animation is clunky. Many builds that rely on combo counter builds are useless.

Best example is a Galatine Prime pure slash build. Before combo counter in combination with weeping wounds gave me a consistent chance with each hit to proc slash. NOW only with heavy attacks and only AFTER i built up the crappy counter. It feels as though killing high level enemies takes twice as long now.

Then on the other side you have a ZAW (Plague Kripath with EKW II RU) 64% Status. This feels stronger WITHOUT even using the counter.

The ironie is with the Zaw that if i use my heavy attack the wind up time = DPS i could inflict while just continuing my attack. Then back to the Galatine Prime. Here i need such a large combo multiplier to reach a 100% chance i am faster just shooting the dude. I basically brought a knife to a gun fight.

If Brozime would do this test again now i wonder how long it would take....

 

ya new melee feels nice but is way less impact-full also feels like our melee weapon choice pool for whats viable was cut in half as well no ever weapon only has the one good build 

i had a few stupid build that were super-weak at the start but scaled with combo for insane power and now those build just dont work . 

 

[GuwopNinja]

Finally manual block is back,melee is now amazing some weapon has epic range and make feel like devil may cry or another slasher,thank you devs,game looks now better,amazing...but stop making grind repetive mission,its too much now,really too much grind almost for nothing,give us more story,more lore,more story telling missions,grind is boring...and this players who say melee is worst,please stop.  I dont wanna see next update with remove of manual blocking and only melee equip and remove operator,this ruined lore for me,im still believe im space ninja only,not child in my frame. Long live Umbra

[Tipenok]

Nice update. Like the new Ember. Active gameplay, survivability, power.

 

I have still one complain. Can I bring my Garuda in "melee only" mission without equiping a melee weapon, cause you know: innate melee weapon... Last time I check I could bring Mesa with NO secondary on "secondary only" mission, cause you know: innate peacemaker !

[Shuhari]

Alright. Day two of The Old Blood. I've actually done enough content now, and experienced enough of the changes to make an informed opinion.

Kuva Lich: There's way too much RNG and grinding. You have a Kuva Lich that needs 3 Requiem mods, and you have to kill a bunch of thralls in order to uncover a single requiem mod it requires. Times this by 3, and it gets tedious. Then you have to do Kuva Flood to get a guaranteed requiem mod, and nobody in your squad may even get the requiem mod you need, forcing you to do more kuva floods or kuva siphons. On top of that, you're making encouraging us to use our precious void traces to refine requiem relics when we're already burning them to get our prime parts, again for only a chance at getting what we may need. Not cool!

Suggestion: Rework how requiem mods are distributed to lessen the RNG factor, I'm okay with some RNG but in its current iteration it just doesn't seem fun. Increase requiem murmur progress per thrall kill so it doesn't feel so grindy.

Melee Changes: I love melee. But these changes were not what I was expecting. I wanted manual blocking back in, but instead when I hit Mouse Button 2, I just go back to aiming with my primary weapon. There is no "Block Button" listed in the gameplay keybind settings. I shouldn't have to constantly rebind my keys and use guesswork to figure out how exactly I'm supposed to block manually. I mean it's great if I'm doing melee-only. Manual blocking works just fine then. But I also like to shoot in addition to melee. In addition to that, melee still feels powerful but it's noticably slower. The heavy attack option is a nice addition, though.

Suggestion: Manual blocking should be more intuitive. In its current iteration it just feels like the previous melee, only slower and less damaging. I'll still use melee because it's my favorite, but figuring out how to block manually shouldn't require an in depth Warframe wiki search. When I have my melee weapon out and I hit Mouse Button 2 to block, the game should immediately recognize I want to block, not switch to my primary weapon and aim.

[RogerYork]

If you want to ignore my ranting section, I do actually have some constructive ideas at the bottom of this post, but the top half of this is kind of ranting.

 

So, you go into a Level 20+ Grineer Mission, you kill a Kuva Larvling (because let's be honest you're killing EVERYTHING). You now have a Kuva Lich, now let's say that you've already gotten everything you need from Kuva Liches, all the weapons, the ephemera, etc. What reason do you have for going after this annoyance? Oh right, he's gonna steal your loot, great, better off him then. So you spend the time you'd probably set aside for opening some relics, maybe farming the new Warframe that just came out, purely to take out this annoying enemy who's getting in your way by taking your stuff.

 

You go through the rigor of getting the requiem mods, learning the mods you need, the combination, and then you finally kill him, you get all your stolen stuff back and it's all grand and fine.

 

To celebrate you go and do a void fissure beacause you really want that new Prime weapon that came out before this Lich started stealing your stuff. It's the Grineer. Before you know it, you have a new Kuva Lich ruining your day.

 

As fun as the nemesis system seemed in concept, the fact of the matter is, it's so goddamn grindy just figuring out the Requiem mods you need to vanquish them, let alone getting the damn things, and there's no opt out other than trigger/power discipline when going into Grineer lvl 20+ missions, or just not going into those missions at all, and that isn't fun either. Now, I'm still actively hunting Kuva Liches as I want all the weapons and ephemera, however statisitically, I'm going to end up getting Liches with repeat weapons (I don't care about the randomised stats, I only want them for mastery as most of the weapons are just little bits of sidegrade of trash weapons) before I have them all. I'm going to have to burn several hours into killing/converting a Lich that's not going to be any use to me. (Converted Liches when they show up are absolutely useless - had one that I supposedly killed show up, and it was doing penuts for damage, only used its weapon and not any of the powers which may have been useful)

 

What can DE do to fix this?

1) They SHOULD implement an Opt Out. Arguably, it should be an Opt IN, so that people fresh out of War Within - which is relatively easy content, are not suddenly forced to deal with Sortie Level Grineer (with broken armour scaling) enemies. And if you are sick of dealing with the constant cycle of Kuva Liches, you can opt out and stop encountering Larvlings, and should you kill one in a multiplayer session, it doesn't make a Lich for you.

2) Requiem Relics need to be gone, straight up gone. Take away that level of RNG that sometimes will not even reward you with a Requiem mod. Additionally, removes the BS where the Kuva Lich can straight up steal what you need to deal with them.

3) Introduce a new reputation vendor who will teach you how to deal with Kuva Liches - you gain reputation for every Kuva Thrall that you kill with it scaling based upon your Kuva Lich's level, you use that reputation to buy the requiem mods you need to Kill your Kuva Lich.

[Hostory]

shortly of update:

 

https://youtu.be/7laBge_Suns

[AreeSoothsayer]

Please allow multiple Lich spawns. So those who are currently borking other people's Lich experience by refusing to fail the Lich kill won't affect me in most of my lich hunting missions.

[DeathByEgo]

So... what exactly is the idea behind the weapon nerfs? Especially the heavy weapons and hammers. With the removal of combo counter dmg scaling, we were told that the damage would increase to compensate. That didn't really happen for a lot of weapons. I figured that at least we would get a 2.5x increase to the base damage along with the supplementary stat changes that we would of got anyway the other year if Melee was included in the stat refresh along with Primary and Secondaries.

Then as I go over the weapons, I see some weapons that didn't even get a 2x increase. Most people who used melee comfortable sat at 2.5x depending on the mission. Now, we aren't even getting that damage. Which even boggles the mind more when you get to the slow heavy weapons where you trade speed for more raw damage. Those weapons (if lucky) only got a 2x increase. Combine that with mod changes, and its a big loss. I'm finding myself replacing Primed Pressure Point with Condition Overload (due to the calc changes) just so I can recover some of the dmg loss on weapons that can use it when dealing with higher level enemies. The supplementary stat increases don't really make up the difference in dmg loss when compared to before. I'm hoping the "rage mode" that you guys talked about was factored into these decisions and that will make more dmg than before being able to be accessed easily, because Heavy Attacks are slow, same range as normal hits, and don't do enough damage to warrant the combo lose that would affect your normal damage (if using something like Blood Rush) until you rebuild that counter.

I'm running around with things like the Arca Titron and I can feel that moment pretty quickly when I think "Yup... and this is where I'd scale beyond this." 180 dmg to 360 dmg seems big on paper but thats a 2x combo counter that I would have in less than 40secs in the previous system.

Edited November 2, 2019 by DeathByEgo

[TsarWolf]

The inability to keep any energy during max immolation for ember ruins her entire design, even with hunter's adrenaline and max efficiency, you lose all of your energy within a minute, meaning a lot of the time you die instantly. You having to purge it is not fun, and a death sentence on higher levels, so a lot of ember's just don't use it at all, because of the huge risk for no reward. I don't understand why you can't make her tanky, because her damage is there, it's great, but she would be so much better with either something like Nezha's Ring, or Rhino's Iron Skin. She is so close to being amazing, but being held back by this mechanic that drains all of your energy.

If you ask me, Gauss (Kinetic Shield), Wisp (Reservoirs) , Nezha (Warding Halo) , Rhino (Iron Skin), Mesa(Shatter Shield) and Oberon (Phoenix Renewal, and also Renewal), and to a lesser state, Equinox don't have that issue, Mesa especially because she has insane damage (better than ember's to be sure, and her damage resistance can get up to 95% with the right build) This leads to the idea that the tankiness of a frame is not tied to their damage potential, hey look at Valkyr.
One possible solution is to give her something akin to Oberon's Phoenix Renewal, where it is a passive, as long as you have your immolation up, you won't get one shot, but you will still have no energy, so there's that. One other possible solution leads us back to Oberon, whose Renewal has a constant energy drain that is manageable (as long as you aren't running with 3 Nekros in your squad). Having the level of your Immolation guage being correlated with your energy drain rate, is a death sentence for her, and sure yeah, healing flame exists, but sacrificing sustain for health is just nuts.
So please, give Ember something like that, or remove the energy drain on her Immolation, because it is not fun, and WILL get you killed.

It's like you guys hate Ember or something.

Edited November 2, 2019 by TsarWolf
Specifics

[Ole_G]

• Цитата

   

  • Decreased fall off damage from 100 to 10.
  • Decreased range of projectile from 40m to 20m and fall off range from 20-30m to 8-16m. 

   

  this is too much nerf. 12/15m-22/23m it's ok, but 8 meters this is too close for today game. This change make Cachmoon bad as Akbronco. You need buff other weapons to competitive level. Detron, Bronco, Brakk - this weapons need to be updated. Then players will use them as well. OR you need increase +40% Projectile Speed to +60-80% on Lethal Momentum.

[Nanology]

2/3 Liches I have farmed have the same weapon? Kuva Ogris? This means if we get a new lich and has the same weapon we've already farmed with a different/worse bonus we are forced to convert it? Would be nice to have a 'dismiss' option. 

It would also be nice to see the parazon mods we used to kill/convert the lich in the 'Kuva Lich History' and maybe even the attempts. Unless the parazon mod poetry has no meaning to them at all and is something we don't need to figure out, "deeper meaning" and or a 'puzzle'.

Thrall kills should be lowered slightly, maybe by 10. Seems like a 'TON' of grind for a slight 25% magnetic buff...

[TheBlackShawarma]

Add kuva weapons in the shop, I just buy it...

And go to hell with your insane grind🖕

[Sedly]

Now that you're on great path again you could bring good old quick melee back not this abomination where you lose control of your weapons. Or maybe i have better idea give us a choice in the option menu if we want "stay in your hands" melee button or "slash go back to firearm without pressing any additional button" melee button. And also choice for glaive weapons if we want throw on heavy melee attack or to hold melee button in the same style like in Dark Sector you know that the power throw is somewhere between of that circle. Last thing i want to say is today will be first time i will play with melee weapon since phase 1.

[MirageKnight]

This is without doubt the worst update DE has ever released.

And coming from me, a gamer that's played Warframe for six years on a near-daily basis, that's saying something. 

Despite making Ember less brain dead and more interactive, despite the improvements to lighting, despite making Vauban a bit more useful and fun...you all really screwed up on this one.

Phase 2 of the melee is a really mixed bag. Despite some needed buffs to some weapons, you messed up combos for some stances big time and nerfed other weapons. 

The quest for Grendel is a joyless slog intended solely for try-hard masochists. Facing level 40 enemies in endurance runs with no mods, no arcanes, and no Operator? I refuse to even touch that or dignify it with the word "challenging".

The worst offender of them all is the new Lich system. It is a massive, annoying, frustrating, grind-fest filled with arbitrary BS, Sortie level difficulty, and several layers of RNG with arguably lackluster rewards for our effort. At this point, I'm sorry I went and killed that "Larva". If I had any real clue as to what the long term consequences of my actions would be, I'd have left it the hell alone and not gone after my own Lich.

I'll give you guys some credit for one thing: you succeeded in ripping off "borrowing from" no less than 3 other video games in a single update; Assassin's Creed, LOTR: Shadow of Mordor and Skyrim. 

Oh and Kirby as well for that matter.

Edited November 2, 2019 by MirageKnight

[TsarFace]

Only problems I have are:

* Finishers moving to X

* Heavy Melee attack can't be used as your first attack, even when mapping it to it's own button

 

Other than that, I'm loving the changes, great job.

[Tenno76856]

What happened to the level up messages when you level up WF and weapons? Seems like they disappeared? (tested both via Helene and Hydron)

[kuryux]

On 2019-10-31 at 5:07 PM, [DE]Megan said:

This system is meant to be challenging. It’s meant to be a threat. It’s meant to posit a vengeful and immortal enemy against you until you can decipher how to defeat them. It will demand your best gear and game knowledge!

Challenging? Nopety nope. 

Endless grind like there is no tomorrow? Yeap

[Seliloint7]

Ppl leave their lich alive and that way the rest dont get a chance for their lich to spawn. they are afraid of the ranking and its so annoying i have to go solo to get a chance at my lich

[MAGNUS_MAGNETO]

En 31/10/2019 a las 19:12, Pacheon dijo:

This was known since melee 3.0 was announced without phase 1 being released.

People like me focused on different riven stuff, like redeemer with damage and crit instead of combo counter and such, same for atterax and zaws.

You should have listened to the playerbase, which were already complaining at the region-chat ingame.

After the first entire night in simulator making "weapon engineering" with my zaws, i must say that i was terrible wrong...

10x lvl 160 drekar heavy gunners...5 seconds

Thanks [DE]

P.S. don´t care playerbase...

[nooneyouknow13]

So this has actually ended up being a pretty massive nerf overall to Exalted Blade. Lost combo multiplier increasing damage, no base damage change, and CO is far less impressive with it than it was before. And no more quick healing with life strike, you can't even run amalgam organ shatter to speed up the heavy hits. You really could at least enable acolyte mods on exalted melees now.

 

Well, unless you just spammed the waves without building combo. Then nothing changed.

Edited November 5, 2019 by nooneyouknow13

[Sir_Slicer]

Hi All,

A bit of a feedback on on Melee Changes.

• New combo system looks and works great for me. Especially the ability to cut distance quickly with zoom+melee attack. Animation transitions also look nice. This is the best part.
• Damage wise - needs testing. Memeing strike is dead now (maybe its for the best) - what shall we do with all those "+crit on slide attack" Rivens? Those aren't cheap, many people invested lots of time/plat to get those. There should be an option to reimburse them somehow.
• Life Strike - completely dead and broken, now to heal you need to wait 1-2 seconds until the heavy attack charges (which means you'll be dead if you're in the tight spot) AND reset your combo counter completely. It makes melee nearly useless for high levels. Previously you could use it for quick heals in a pinch, or for sustained tanking at 120+ levels. Now it is completely useless - Devs, you have to do something about this mod!!!!!!!! Since chanelling is now gone, there should be some other system in place.

In general, melee is less powerful now (needs testing though), trashed Life Strike is the worst part. Survivability is severely impacted.

[LocoN7]

Okay I think I had enough of this game for a while, this whole kuva lich system was a major dissapointment. Multiple layers of grind, bunch of frustrating moments and when I finally vanquished my lich I didn't even get it's weapon so basically it's also a buggy mess. DE pick up the pace because if you keep this up then games like Destiny 2 will sweep you under the rug pretty soon. All hype I had for Railjack and the New War is completely gone.

Edited November 3, 2019 by LocoN7