Why do you hate the New Meelee changes?

[DrakeWurrum]

I don't even feel like the melee got nerfed. I don't get the complaints.

What, did people just want to be able to one-shot level 100 enemies with meme strike?

1 hour ago, Prexades said:

I would also rather have channeling back then this heavy attacks which are clunky and essentially worthless.

If you build with combo attacks in mind, it's not useless. "Oh look, a Nox! SMASH"

Edited November 2, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[EmailSoup]

I hate them because the redeemer prime can no longer shoot on demand like it used to. Before the update, you could fire it instantly, and in succession if desired- without affecting movement. It was my tool for quickly dispatching ancients and arby drones too close to my face. I've tried both of the available gunblade combos. Here are my current choices if I want to shoot the redeemer:

1. Roll and flip around like crazy while shooting and slashing. Great for aiming.

2. Shoot a single time while standing completely still. If you move an inch forward it becomes a slash.

3. Perform a single heavy attack that is a lot slower than previously, and which can't be done unless the melee is already out. I can no longer shoot the redeemer on demand while using my guns.

The update killed the ability to instantly fire off the redeemer on demand, and replaced it with weird flippy combos. Otherwise, the grand scope of the new melee system feels awesome. With the right combo mods, weapons build very quickly and the heavy slam does a lot. -And it feels great and accessible.

I just want my redeemer back. Why the normal charged shot was removed is perplexing and I hope it returns.

 

[Owlski]

10 minutes ago, EmailSoup said:

I hate them because the redeemer prime can no longer shoot on demand like it used to. Before the update, you could fire it instantly, and in succession if desired- without affecting movement. It was my tool for quickly dispatching ancients and arby drones too close to my face. I've tried both of the available gunblade combos. Here are my current choices if I want to shoot the redeemer:

1. Roll and flip around like crazy while shooting and slashing. Great for aiming.

2. Shoot a single time while standing completely still. If you move an inch forward it becomes a slash.

3. Perform a single heavy attack that is a lot slower than previously, and which can't be done unless the melee is already out. I can no longer shoot the redeemer on demand while using my guns.

The update killed the ability to instantly fire off the redeemer on demand, and replaced it with weird flippy combos. Otherwise, the grand scope of the new melee system feels awesome. With the right combo mods, weapons build very quickly and the heavy slam does a lot. -And it feels great and accessible.

I just want my redeemer back. Why the normal charged shot was removed is perplexing and I hope it returns.

 

I believe the shot attack is under the charge attack. It's the same with glaives and their throws. 
Edit: Didn't fully read your 3rd point, but attack speed definitely helps greatly with the charge animation. I do agree that charge attacks should be incorporated back into holding down the melee key though. 

Though I'm curious to know how much the charge w/ combo mechanic affects these features on the weapons now. 
Like is it now too weak to simply the shoot or throw without building up combo first? Need to do more testing..

Edited November 2, 2019 by Owlski
being a derp

[EmailSoup]

10 minutes ago, Owlski said:

I believe the shot attack is under the charge attack. It's the same with glaives and their throws. 

Though I'm curious to know how much the charge w/ combo mechanic affects these features on the weapons now. 
Like is it now too weak to simply the shoot or throw without building up combo first? Need to do more testing..

Yes, you are correct that the "shot attack" is now the charge attack. The heavy attack is what the old shot used to be. However I don't think you understood what I was saying:

The heavy attack is notably a lot slower than it used to be. And it cannot be shot unless the redeemer is already in your hand.

This heavily affects the ability to use guns and shoot the redeemer on demand.

I don't have any gripes with combos or the charge damage because I never used the redeemer for those mechanics. I never used it as a high damage scaling weapon for long endurance runs, or for condition overload, or blood rush. 

I used it as a tool. A pocket shotgun with essentially no switch time. I can no longer run around with my braton, see an arby drone, aim at it and blast it with the redeemer in a way that is efficient and easily maneuverable. The animation speed is not a big problem because it can be remedied with swing speed mods. It is the accessibility of the instant shot that was lost.

Now it sits in the pile with the other melees that have weird cool, flashy animations but are not quickmelee-friendly.

Edit: As a combo building weapon, it is fine. It is quite strong, maybe even stronger than before. It works just as well as the other melees if I'm playing melee only. I do not play melee only in a game with 2 other weapon slots. Quickmelee was seemingly grazed over when they made this update.

Edited November 2, 2019 by EmailSoup

[Veomroa]

Melee Phase 2 made me unfavorite Umbra because I ran Life Strike to sustain, but heavy attack exalted doesn't create a wave, so you have to do an actual melee with the exalted weapon that was designed to fire long range waves. In my opinion, Excalibur, the swordsman frame, sucks in close quarters. So, if I have to run up to an enemy in order to heal, that means I have to stop throwing damage waves, run up to an enemy, do a wind up, then land a heavy attack, it's just way too much work to consider Excalibur worth playing anymore, not to mention that I would likely just die while attempting to do that whole mess.

From what I saw on the patch notes, there was a graph showing new Condition Overload scaling up to 7 procs, which confused me because I thought there was supposed to be a cap, and if that existed, that mean't there wasn't a cap and that Condition Overload was just doubled in power. This is likely my fault though cause I read through the massive sheet of patch notes quicker than I should have or normally would have.

I'm thankful they boosted Secura Lecta's base crit from 5% to 15%, because that means crit build is still viable with maiming strike and blood rush, just a little more awkward to think about. They also added two damage types to it with Slash and Puncture, so I added Condition Overload and Drifing Contact to it, so over all I guess it got a boost to it's power?

I haven't tested my Sancti Magistar yet because I'm scared to find out it sucks or doesn't work, but when I do finally found out what happened to it, I might come back to edit this.

Overall, I think Condition Overload is supposed to be stronger than it used to be (Based on a spreadsheet I looked at the other day), so Status melee might as well be meta now, since crit became so awkward. Still waiting for the update over on Warframe Builder to start looking at overall number changes.

[-SW-PaStei]

I don't really care about these dmg changes. All i hate in this system is no more channeling, riven identification(I have no idea do my rivens are good or bad now), and melee momentum what is impaired from "chimera" update. As for me, bad melee system was replaced with even worse. 2-nd time in a row. I need DE reaction as soon as possible cause i'd like to know should i uninstall WF for good, or there is still hope. WF is only game that i play, so i will drill this topic untill i see any reaction and future of this game.

[Serafinia]

This is in the general discussion so the devs won't read these. If you feel these meele changes are not suited for you make a feedback on the feedback section. Overall I am fine with these changes because I never was a chanelling fan and basically I got back my quick meele what I cared for most. Most weapons got plain buffs while others got less but those weapons got the most which was really unused for long time. Hopefully this could result more variety in meele use. I think that they could have buffed some other stats on some weapons more than the damage. 

Now I can use my old loved weapons but some changes are not needed or just not really fluid yet. The quick meele on most weapons works well, the heavy attacks now for me are on the middle mouse button, probably won't use it and the combo attacks are on the right mouse button which I won't use too because the combos / animations are still somtimes clunky. These changes hits mostly those players whom relied on chanelling and meta builds and may their weapons feels a nerfs to them but the damage buffs compensate them partly. Most players never will go beyond level 100 and stay in the starchart levels so those care less in this subject because the weapons now can wipe out the starchart easily. For the challenge part  they (devs) still need to work a viable system to entertain those whom wants harder enemies and overall more challenging game modes. 

I don't think this update is tragically bad because it brings a lot of useful changes but I understand those whom may feel these changes are bad. In my eyes this is better than the first meele change iteration which removed my liked playstyle. Yet we have to wait for the last part of the changes which maybe coming in the next year but pls keep in mind in this game everything changing and if you have opinion and idea how to make it better then use the feedback section because there will be more chances the devs read your ideas.

[ILOHARTA]

10 hours ago, --Aegis--MR9 said:

For what its worth I feel my go to melee weapons are absolutely over powered now. And I hate that .. many things still need to be tweaked to bring melee down to earth.

I'm glad to read this, was beginning to think I was the only one with this opinion. Just my 2 cents: today I decided to try the melee revamp (hadn't done so yet) and went into those Lotus challenges "melee only". I said to myself: "okay, let's bring the weakest melee weapon I have, for the glory of memes", so I took my Heat Sword.
I couldn't actually believe what I was seeing on screen, and I am not kidding, I had to double check the level of mobs just to be sure I was in the correct mission but yup I was: level 70-90 mobs dying like flies with a few swings.
Before the update, that sword was just taking dust in my inventory...

[ranks21]

kinda sad when players says that this update will make them use their old favorite weapons now or more when they know within that its not so. you will always cling to your last weapon that you have now. the old weapons may get tested yes, once or twice, but it will be back where you left it ages ago whether guns or melee. seeing a capped melee can never be better than an uncapped one < what math school did you go.

I sure as hell not gonna choose gram, galatine, skana or any other melee over my orthos prime or zenistar. those whom have invested so much in kit melee/zaws aren't going back to any of the slow and useless weapons with stances/combo that is equally slow and gets them in jeapordy. when tempo royal was released and scindo p was the crit king replaced by galatine p, heavy weapons got left because of their speed.

any weapon a player uses that is fast and have a bit of good dps to them that kills in a reasonable time isn't getting replaced by an older weaker one no matter how fancy the animation or design is.

[Frenotx]

I'm disappointed that my glaive is waaay less effective. My glaive p. + zakti combo was probably my favorite weapon pairing, before the update. Gotta time it right, but if you detonated the glaive on an enemy right after the zakti darts staggered them, you could do very large amounts of damage. Often could one-shot a lv 130 heavy gunner either outright, or with the forced bleed proc. 2 shots would take them down for sure. Not terribly fast, requires aiming of two different projectiles, and required good timing, but devastatingly effective.

Now, it's equally clunky / challenging to do (with the exception of self damage being removed, which was easy to avoid with practice), but it does waaay less damage. Like, trivial damage to heavy units. I tweaked the build a bit to try and capitalized on the heavy attack changes, but just can't get it to present anywhere near enough of a threat to justify its complexity. The glaive in general just feels entirely not worth it, when I can chew things up way faster with guns or more conventional melee. Very disappointing.

[Xaero]

1 hour ago, Veomroa said:

Melee Phase 2 made me unfavorite Umbra because I ran Life Strike to sustain, but heavy attack exalted doesn't create a wave, so you have to do an actual melee with the exalted weapon that was designed to fire long range waves.

You can do a heavy slam which is way faster than ground heavy attack, it heals too. You can also heal with waves, it's only a bit tricky. Use heavy attack (no need to hit anyone with it) when waves from regular attacks hit enemies.

[Sloan441]

1 hour ago, ranks21 said:

kinda sad when players says that this update will make them use their old favorite weapons now or more when they know within that its not so. 

Well...no. 

I still regard melee as more of a fashion statement than useful weapons. They do get used, but what is actually chosen is generally because of how it looks. There are a few exceptions, but those involve statsticks so different rules apply. 

Today I got out my Fang Primes after...mmm...probably two years of no use at all. They kill lvl70 enemies just fine. Before they kind of struggled with lvl50 ones. I could have experimented more with all the melee-only missions, but didn't bother. Melee-only restrictions are pronounced, "Khora". 

[(NSW)Badger]

19 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

First Rule of Warframe: Never get attached to anything.

 

 

Second Rule of Warframe: Use a controller, it's easier. 

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

Succinctly put:

* My polearms aren't polearms anymore. They're swords who look like polearms. (Typically the nerf made my 10m range weapons into 6 meter range weapons)

* I have to STOP now to access my old combos, no more pushing forward anymore or I go into stupid Casual Mode, with only three strikes

* New melee is ridiculously OP to the point where I don't need berserker anymore and where I can practically eviscerate level 165s without too much trouble. (165s should laugh at my melee)

* New Lifted status is pointless, if I wanted to play Devil May Cry, I'd play Devil May Cry. I play Warframe because I want to kill huge swaths of enemies in style. 

* The nerfs to knockdowns is severe, there's just no power anymore in my melee, nor any tactics either as a result.

* Heavy attacks are pointless in this meta, if I do that, I have to build my whole combo again, no thanks. I'd rather have my crit multiplier maxed instead. Way more damage.

DE has to take this back to the drawing board I think. Press X to win isn't fun. I haven't seen melee having this lack of diversity since the old "Quick melee" days.

 

Edit: Oh wow, just tried using Fragor. The CC is completely gone. The AoE slams do absolutely nothing. Heavy weapons are no more. RIP Melee.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Countess_Hapmuhr
complete and utter sadness.

[TARINunit9]

21 hours ago, ChaosMarine said:

To add to this, I'm still pissed at DE's attitude about nerfing Catchmoon. I don't use it. I prefer the Tombfinger to be honest but the way they decided to bring in Pablo and his crap spiel was akin to telling the player to shut up and accept their nerf because he was "a cute child" once. Firstly, if fifty people are using the gun because it's the best gun to use, that doesn't excuse them to nerf it into the ground. They'd be better off buffing other secondaries or making them worth the effort to use. This isn't a PVP game. It's a PVE game. When people whinge and moan about how they shouldn't mind their favourite weapons getting nerfed into the ground, they're essentially pissing on those that liked those weapons. I don't moan at you for enjoying your favourite weapons or even care if they're OP or not.

I disagree-but-respect everything about your post, except this philosophy. "It's a PvE game" is not an excuse to allow overpowered dominant strategy exist uncontested. Mega Man 2 is a PvE game technically, and the Metal Blade is so flagrantly overpowered that the whole game is worse for it. And if the devs were planning to add new content to Mega Man 2 somehow, the Metal Blade's very existence changes how that content would be made. They have to either design the content entirely around Metal Blade and nothing else, or nerf the Metal Blade

[SpentCasings]

21 hours ago, ChaosMarine said:

Why I'm not a fan? I spent crap-loads of hours working on my weapons, Crap-loads of resources on forma/rivens. My favourite melee weapon has lost around 30% of it's range and the new crit multiplication system has reduced my weapon's damage output significantly. Before I could start throwing out red-crits within two to four hits, now, I have to hand out 180+ hits to start seeing red crits. It's not fun or pleasant to look at something you've put a lot of time and effort into honing to be the most optimised weapon possible suddenly get torn to shred because of an update.

To add to this, I'm still pissed at DE's attitude about nerfing Catchmoon. I don't use it. I prefer the Tombfinger to be honest but the way they decided to bring in Pablo and his crap spiel was akin to telling the player to shut up and accept their nerf because he was "a cute child" once. Firstly, if fifty people are using the gun because it's the best gun to use, that doesn't excuse them to nerf it into the ground. They'd be better off buffing other secondaries or making them worth the effort to use. This isn't a PVP game. It's a PVE game. When people whinge and moan about how they shouldn't mind their favourite weapons getting nerfed into the ground, they're essentially pissing on those that liked those weapons. I don't moan at you for enjoying your favourite weapons or even care if they're OP or not.

DE are messing up here. I've been asking every cell I've played with tonight what they're thinking and I've had exactly eight against forty-eight people (Yes, I did count) who liked and disliked the new system respectively. This is a big change to way WF plays and it's a massive change to the melee aspect which is a core component of the game.If DE are serious about producing a game the fans enjoy, okay, have the update available but within a month of the update, they should put out a message to the players and ask if they want to keep the old melee system or if they want to keep the new one.

To the people who think this is good, I don't care. If you disagree with me, I doubly don't care.You're welcome to enjoy the new system and I won't begrudge you enjoying it but just because you're enjoying it, doesn't mean those that don't enjoy it should shut up or not voice their disappointment.

THIS.

 

ALL OF THIS. THIS SUMS UP MY ENTIRE EXPERIENCE AND I WISH ONE OF THE DEVS READ THIS.

ALSO NOBODY ASKED FOR THESE CHANGES.  THE MELLE WEAPON BUFFS ALONE WOULD HAVE BEEN ENOUGH TO DIVERSIFY THE USAGE OF WEAPONS. Now everyone is just going to use the new "op" weapons. Which are Reaper prime, Nikana prime, and crit heavy blades like the Galatine. 

 

Juggling sucks. My sprint breaking sucks....this update SUCKS.

Edited November 2, 2019 by SpentCasings

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

23 hours ago, DOOMPATRIOT said:

I mean, I get that they got nerfed, but it isn't as if the enemies are that difficult or anything.

Yall be killing lvl 35 and complain about how you can't no longer with one- hit kill everything in the screen (even tho you can still can).

If you were killing lvl +400 then I would see where you are coming from, but let's face it, Warframe isn't intended to be like that, it is a casual game (which is ok by all means), and It isn't like DE is trying to change that.

Let me clear up that I used to go far in Mot (pre- and post relic system) and I think that these changes really made it hard for you to go further soecially if you focused on the Zenistar, but if you didn't went/ go far, I don't see why you complain (I am not saying It can't be improved).

I am not supporting DE, especially since they have proven that they just want money, It is a company, of course It wants that money (but It is still facked up) but dayum.

Let me hear yall thoughts.

The fact that de completely ruined condition overload is what killed my hype for this update. Hell when this crap comes to console I'll have no incentive to play it because literally all my freaking builds got nuked.

[SpentCasings]

Level 400? You have issues with level 100+ heavies.....

[Daiwulf]

So far, heavy attacks seem useless as they reset the counter, breaking blood rush and weeping wounds. They might only be useful if you build your combo then heavy attack a specific target (boss, demolisher, capture target) and hope they die with that, or else you'll be weaker than when you got to it. Also, the Life Strike in theory should allow us to regain full health with a single hit with a good combo counter.

I was a main maiming strike user with atterax and I agree that it was too much OP and deserved a nerf, but they nerfed it to the ground.

Redeemer wasn't nerfed to the ground... it was buried 10km below it with the condition overload nerf + the combo stance changes that made it really bad.

IMO, pushing all changes (stats + mod nerfs + combo counter + stance combos) at once made it really bad, as we need to redesign everything we have at once. They should have made small iteractions on changes to adjust based on feedback, instead of having to deal with a massive wave of rage

[(PSN)segulibanez65]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)ChaosTheNerd said:

The fact that de completely ruined condition overload is what killed my hype for this update. Hell when this crap comes to console I'll have no incentive to play it because literally all my freaking builds got nuked.

The positive we have on console is that those that either have PC accts or are watching the meta swing can at least prepare.  Like, I'd jump on a Reaper P set now before the price shoots up if you don't already own it.  Kronen P has felt really good in my tests.  Paracesis shouldn't be ignored.  Nikana P.  Galatine P (is it vaulted? If so, now is the time to buy the set... I know I tossed mine long ago)

Now whether or not one wants to start from scratch building weapons they may not own is another story, and I can understand the frustration

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

1 minute ago, (PS4)segulibanez65 said:

The positive we have on console is that those that either have PC accts or are watching the meta swing can at least prepare.  Like, I'd jump on a Reaper P set now before the price shoots up if you don't already own it.  Kronen P has felt really good in my tests.  Paracesis shouldn't be ignored.  Nikana P.  Galatine P (is it vaulted? If so, now is the time to buy the set... I know I tossed mine long ago)

Now whether or not one wants to start from scratch building weapons they may not own is another story, and I can understand the frustration

Yeah some weapons got buffed that's nice and all but in talking about weapons I worked my ASS of building properly 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

23 hours ago, DOOMPATRIOT said:

I mean, I get that they got nerfed, but it isn't as if the enemies are that difficult or anything.

Yall be killing lvl 35 and complain about how you can't no longer with one- hit kill everything in the screen (even tho you can still can).

If you were killing lvl +400 then I would see where you are coming from, but let's face it, Warframe isn't intended to be like that, it is a casual game (which is ok by all means), and It isn't like DE is trying to change that.

Let me clear up that I used to go far in Mot (pre- and post relic system) and I think that these changes really made it hard for you to go further soecially if you focused on the Zenistar, but if you didn't went/ go far, I don't see why you complain (I am not saying It can't be improved).

I am not supporting DE, especially since they have proven that they just want money, It is a company, of course It wants that money (but It is still facked up) but dayum.

Let me hear yall thoughts.

Because you work for free, right?

Just kill your “not supporting” comment.  Calling DE “dayum facked up” as your closing comment invalidates your thread.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

5 hours ago, EmailSoup said:

I hate them because the redeemer prime can no longer shoot on demand like it used to. Before the update, you could fire it instantly, and in succession if desired- without affecting movement. It was my tool for quickly dispatching ancients and arby drones too close to my face. I've tried both of the available gunblade combos. Here are my current choices if I want to shoot the redeemer:

1. Roll and flip around like crazy while shooting and slashing. Great for aiming.

2. Shoot a single time while standing completely still. If you move an inch forward it becomes a slash.

3. Perform a single heavy attack that is a lot slower than previously, and which can't be done unless the melee is already out. I can no longer shoot the redeemer on demand while using my guns.

The update killed the ability to instantly fire off the redeemer on demand, and replaced it with weird flippy combos. Otherwise, the grand scope of the new melee system feels awesome. With the right combo mods, weapons build very quickly and the heavy slam does a lot. -And it feels great and accessible.

I just want my redeemer back. Why the normal charged shot was removed is perplexing and I hope it returns.

 

I’d post this in feedback.  Seems concise and valid.

[GrimAtrament]

only thing i hate is the sprint disable when melee bug and the fact that heavy attack isn't when you hold down normal attack like it should be.

[Traumtulpe]

23 hours ago, DOOMPATRIOT said:

Why do you hate the New Meelee changes?

A lot of new stances don't allow you to walk while attacking, I mostly only ever used stances that did let you walk. I had to find out that ALL stances I liked to use are about as mobile as a potted plant now. I actually found a few stances since that still allow movement, however mostly only when you move forwards (you could move sideways before) - there are notable exceptions: Very few stances have almost no combos, just about every attack is an old quick attack. This DOES allow flawless movement, but in return you have essentially no combos whatsoever.

In addition my Redeemer Prime is unusable except for charged attacks now with either stance.

In addition pure status weapons seem unviable at the moment.

They made all weapons I used unviable and / or unwieldy. However, as far as I can tell melee did not necessarily get weaker - they merely shifted the meta around.

That being said, I don't hate the new melee changes. I actually found ONE stance on ONE weapon that suits my taste perfectly (with the exception that I cannot move sideways / backwards while attacking anymore). If they change the input for the "forwards+attack" combo to "any direction+attack" I am actually perfectly content.