Warframe drops out of steams top 10 just after releasing an Big update.

[Ham_Grenabe]

A big challenge for WF is that they apparently rely on that daily login number, so they can’t use the conventional wisdom that it’s actually okay for players to leave for a while and come back when new things drop, as long as they leave happy. 

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

WF I feel is a game that is becoming to be aimed at children with short attention spans if they aren't rewarded with something after a minute of playing. 

[Valok]

Rushing RJ and then leaving us with a fairly bugged (and unbalanced) version for almost 18(?) days now was a mistake.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Valok

[Skaleek]

29 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

It won't, but that's besides the point. The point is you cannot deny that there is a downward trend, and you cannot pretend that it's normal for Warframe. Draw a line from peak to peak. Hell, draw a line from dip to dip, you'll see the same thing.

This is not stable, this is not normal. DE aren't at risk in the slightest right now, but it's not a stable or stagnant playercount right now, it is going down and recent updates haven't helped.

Not gonna lie that image is pretty definitive.

THE CHART HAS SPOKEN. Also Monkey was there.

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

2017 WF Report

45M registered users in 2017 (see page 12)

+62% player base increase over 2016

2019 WF Interim Report

53M registered users 2019 (see page 7)

27% player base increase over 2018, still waiting for annual report

 

They had their biggest jump from 2016 to 2017, but it hasn't seen as big of a jump since then. 

 

Registered users don't mean squat if they aren't playing on a consistent basis. Even if 100k were playing on a daily basis from Steam that is only .18%, not 18% or 1.8% but .18 percent of the registered base. Although that is for steam, even if we had 1M players playing on a daily basis between all systems and PC that would still only be 1.8%. Where are these other 98% players ending up at? I wanna see statistics of the amount of players that have more than 50 Hours of game time. We don't have access to that, but I think it would be interesting to see what the total playtime of the entire players base is vs the actual registered users and the actual consistent players of WF. The report by Leou almost seems like they're trying to justify for the investors of the holding company that there is this massive following because there are like 50+m registered people who have at one point logged in to WF. 

 

 

 

 

[844448]

25 minutes ago, Valok said:

Rushing RJ and then leaving us with a fairly bugged (and unbalanced) version for almost 18(?) days now was a mistake.

I'm questioning your railjack avionics if you have Hyperstrike aka railjack serration installed or not to make you say unbalanced

[SneakyErvin]

14 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

We can of course say, "lets see what happens when Railjack part 3 is released" but how many times must you say "lets wait and see what the next update brings" before you see that there is a downward trend? What if what you say is true, about how Railjack is simply not designed to actually bring people back. What happens when we get a peak 2,000 players lower than the previous one at 45k... Do we then wait months for Duviri holding out hope that that will be the update that brings people back?

It won't, but that's besides the point. The point is you cannot deny that there is a downward trend, and you cannot pretend that it's normal for Warframe. Draw a line from peak to peak. Hell, draw a line from dip to dip, you'll see the same thing.

This is not stable, this is not normal. DE aren't at risk in the slightest right now, but it's not a stable or stagnant playercount right now, it is going down and recent updates haven't helped.

We should wait and see. Because there is no reason to panic with the numbers WF is pulling even when it is at its lowest. It is also completely normal for f2p games to behave this way, it just took WF around 4 years to hit that point by peaking its popularity. And yes, if a peak would suddenly go from 45k down to 43k or even 40k, we should wait, because it would still be healthy and normal numbers. It would also possibly mean that WF has finaly found or is getting closer to find its right audience instead of trying to appeal to everyone.

Heck, right now they cant release a single piece of content without pissing someone off royaly. Because too many people have too many views on what WF should be. It would be good if DE went with more original ideas to weed out further parts of the playerbase instead of just trying to bring the most mainstream and simple just for playernumbers. 

[SneakyErvin]

28 minutes ago, (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK said:

Even if 100k were playing on a daily basis from Steam that is only .18%, not 18% or 1.8% but .18 percent of the registered base. Although that is for steam, even if we had 1M players playing on a daily basis between all systems and PC that would still only be 1.8%. 

We have around 3.5 million active players according to a Leyou report from 2019. You can likely find that report wherever you found those other reports aswell as their annual profit gains.

With concurrent numbers on Steam you are looking at something along the lines of 600k or so passing through on a daily basis from all across the globe.

[Valok]

30 minutes ago, 844448 said:

I'm questioning your railjack avionics if you have Hyperstrike aka railjack serration installed or not to make you say unbalanced

I have pretty much everything, aside from some rare avionics from Earth/Saturn which I feel are not worth farming/buying atm. The main unbalanced thing in RJ right now is the sheer headache that it can be to get a reactor with at least 65/70+ AV, which is gonna be around how much you will need to get a "fun" RJ going.

2% as a mission completion reward, that then will be rolled between 30-100 AV's and can't be upgraded or at the very least traded (right now I would prefer to just farm plat).. I enjoy grinding when I find the gameplay fun (and RJ is fun when its not bugging out) but even with my high tolerance for grind I found this to be too much.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Valok

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, MouadSaqui said:

I agree, 100% problem is ... people are again closing their ears saying Eidolons shouldn't be in the game in the first place, I think this community is severely divided to the point where it became almost impossible to co-exist in this forum and reddit without constantly fighting each other, here is what DE should do : 

1 - Two separate servers, the first one will be casual friendly, with all the daily caps and limitations, let them have their fun week ends, give them boosters and a lot of micro-transactions and cosmetics, the second server is for dedicated players, where everything should be uncapped, and keep updating it with new content and make it subscription based, I will gladly pay to play a game that doesn't make me frustrated when playing it.

2 - DE should stop gambling with money they get from players supporting them with in game purchase of plat and cosmetics, They should stop adding random content and instead fix their own game, make a strong foundation first then release the New war.

Otherwise, the cycle will keep repeating itself and we are just wasting time here.

PS: whoever msg me with personal attacks in game, I'm telling you I don't really give a S#&$, don't bother wasting your energy for nothing.

1. As pointed out by several developers over several different games, sub based models are not nearly as profitable as a free to play setup. DE would likely lose money by having a seperate sub based part of the game because that part would lock out cosmetic purchases, boosters and everything else most likely, severely dropping potential revenue gain over having a static monthly pay.

2. They should do what they want to make real from their visions of what the game should be. I also think they are trying to make that strong foundation in preperation of the New War through Empyrean. And if they want a strong foundation with the rest of the game, then eidolons should be out the door asap and have their rare and interesting loot distributed throughout other modes of the game to actually solve parts of the poor loot issues that are spread everywhere.

They've shown with empyrean that they can do random loot the right way to bring us a fullfilling loothunt with prolonged replayability for those that want the absolute perfect items.

Also, anyone who PMs you in game with personal attacks deserves a report and a ban. They should also probably try and achieve a mental age beyond 12.

[DeMonkey]

27 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

We should wait and see. Because there is no reason to panic with the numbers WF is pulling even when it is at its lowest. It is also completely normal for f2p games to behave this way, it just took WF around 4 years to hit that point by peaking its popularity. And yes, if a peak would suddenly go from 45k down to 43k or even 40k, we should wait, because it would still be healthy and normal numbers. It would also possibly mean that WF has finaly found or is getting closer to find its right audience instead of trying to appeal to everyone.

So now it's "the player base will be stable" as opposed to "the playerbase is stable". 

Although really it's "the playerbase might be stable".

Bit of a difference there, but at least you're no longer denying the fact that the playerbase is declining at a rate unusual for Warframe.

[Kaotyke]

I unistalled Warframe on Steam.

And installed ths standalone version. An increase in performace was noted.

That's all.

Now if my Internet would stop with the hiccups...

[SneakyErvin]

22 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

So now it's "the player base will be stable" as opposed to "the playerbase is stable". 

Although really it's "the playerbase might be stable".

Bit of a difference there, but at least you're no longer denying the fact that the playerbase is declining at a rate unusual for Warframe.

Nope, dont think I said so. The game has a stable playerbase already. I'm not sure if you somehow think I mean something else with stable. It's stable, solid, reliable, uhm and whatever word that may be synonymous with stable. I think what I'm saying is that even with a massive drop down to much lower number the game would still have a stable playerbase.

I still dont see it as unusual, since WF is a f2p title where the player retention behavior is common to act the way it now does for WF. The thing is just that WF started slow and popularity increased, while several other games hit their top player numbers early on and then experience the peaks and dips for the rest of their life. I'm not sure if it should be seen as a positive or a negative thing that WF was a slow starter. Likely positive since it shows the game has improved over the years.

[(PSN)LeonidasxGGG]

[Disclaimer: This is an analogy.]

Warframe is like a free candy store that drops a new flavour every few months.
The kids that are just comming in, love it. I mean, it is FREE candy, and who doesn't love free candy? Kids who are loyal costumers, nick-pic what they like the most (and what they can digest in a "reasonable" healty manner). But fat kids (players with lots of money and/or play time), eat EVERYTHING right out the gate and go on yelling for more! So DE caters more to this vocal minority (cuz let's face it, they pay the bills) than to the silent majoraty. In a way, DE as become the arquitect of it's own problem... I'm sure they have the numbers, they CAN see how many players are playing what, at what level, how long it's taking them to acquire certain itens, etc, etc. BUT, instead of having a good game that makes player want to come back, even if it is inbetween other games (cuz face it, free-to-play used to be for that), they increase the number of missions, grind and rng, just to keep those fat brats, I mean... kids, happy.

But that is a mistake.

First of all, because you want healthy costumers, right? You don't want some "sugar addicts", comming into the store causing all sorts of problems because they need their next "fix".
Second of all: The best games (or even, the best businesses) cater to loyalty, NOT sales. Why? Because a happy costumer, even if the buys little things, tells of that good experience to LOTS of people. Why do you think Warframe player count almost TRIPLED on Steam after the bungled release of Destiny 2?... On every Youtube video that talked about the disgrace of "Destiny Poo" there was a comment right at the top saying: "Play Warframe." That's how Warframe grew! So much in fact, that they stopped working on another title ("The Martian Sucessor", I believe it was called) to work on Warframe full time. So, the player count grew, the team grew, and so did the revenue.

However, so did the number of those fat kids.

And now Digital Extreme had a choice: they either made the game for those loyal fans that come-and-go and play casually (but regularly); OR they made it so that those with the highest amount of free time and/or pockets could really get ahead in the game... Guess what they chose?

This as been going on for quite a while. They made insane high grind and rng for those who want/need everything right out the gate. And then, after a few months (when those "whales" have their fill) they tonne down the requirements, the grind, the rng, etc... They call it: "balancing the economy". I call it: "hypocritical bs".

The latest debocle in this was the Kuva Liches and Railjack.
DE super-hyped these two main-contents last year (specially at Tennocon). BUT, also made these two HEAVELLY grindy and RNG gatted updates, drop too close to each other. Now, they have dropped grindy and rng infested updates before, but they went completly overboard on these. And, oddly enough, (even for THIS chocolate factory) they didn't even "sugar" coated it. They just said: "Here. Eat it." And players, even those fat ones, (finally) noticed. They weren't being treated has before, and have their time respected, and their loyalty seen as a valuable... No. They, I mean, WE and OUR time, are now commodities for DE to trade, buy and sell, as they see fit.

Because of this, these two drops were (imo) absolutely abismal for Warframe last year. Personally, I played only ONE of the Kuva Liches, and utterly refused to play the game after trying the bug infested Railjack.

Since Destiny 2 got "fixed" Warframe player count on Warframe has dropped to 2/3 what it was on its high. Which means, if you think about it, if it wasn't for the massive injection of players with Destiny Poo, Warframe would have almost no players right now (on Steam numbers).

When I first started playing Warframe I was an advocate that EVERYONE should try it (ence, the Destiny 2 injection). In late years, I have been warning people about the immense mountain of grind it holds... But right now, I recommend they should AVOID IT altogether. In more ways that one, the Chocolate factory is turning into a Hong Kong Casino... That's I'm dedicating more and more time to other games that DO value me, and DO respect the time I take out of MY life to play their game.

I certainly hope 2019 was an eye-opener for DE, because 2020 might make or break Warframe as a "viable commodity" for me... And imo, for a LOT of players.

[DeMonkey]

19 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It's stable, solid, reliable, uhm and whatever word that may be synonymous with stable.

Are you looking for "consistent", because that's what I'd class as stable and... Warframe is not.

20 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I still dont see it as unusual

I recommend specsavers then. This degree of downward trend has not happened before. In a game that has been growing consistently year after year, a downward trend is by definition unusual.

[spirit_of_76]

On 2020-01-06 at 6:43 AM, (NSW)Kokojo said:

I avoid doing those because you need pin-point gear to even try finding a Team, and a even more refined gear if you want to do all 3 solo. The amount of stuff you have to overdo just to be able to try this and maybe find a team is what kills it for me. Currently on Switch, it's just a place for try-hards that abandon the mission if anyone new joins.

that is a switch problem then because I can pub trydolans on PC with an Oberon, rubico prime, plinx, and a random melee I have almost done a 3x3 in pubs and that was only prevented by one of the randows wasting 5 min causing dawn to rise right before I could kill terry (one synovian kill away and the shield was already down before he left) granted I do run a high strength buff build so that my Oberon can cover 3 of the 4 roles in a trydolan fight (only volt's crit damage buff remains, with smite infusion I have a damage buff, magnetic protection on my 2 and lure heals on my 3 and if needed with vaserin) however amps are another story will most will work some are better than others if you done want to do the eydolan hunts before you have a good amp fortuna has some of the better amp parts however once you can eydolan the quills ones are easier to get and good enough currently I run a 327 amp for max eydolan damage but I am working on making a x27 for better utility how ever a 211 will work just fine and has good utility or even a 111 is good enough for terry hunting.  granted there might be some other issues on switch that I don't know about as a PC player where trydolan's can be done in pubs but there is still a toxic ultra meta tryhards that do 3x5 for the loot.  

[(PSN)FastestKnight]

22 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Nightwave initial release, February 2019: Peak of ~115,000 players. Noticeable increase in retention throughout the later months, not shown in current period

 

Speaking of which, what is going on with Nightwave? When are they planning to release Series 3? Cause not only are we have been stuck with an Intermission, but an Intermission with only about 20% new rewards.

 

I mean, Destiny has a 3 month season cycle. Path of Exile has a 3 month League cycle. Warframe has a whateverlet'sjustimprovise Nightwave cycle. 

 

Yeah, they said this one is gonna take longer (months ago by the way), but these are the same guys who, after the end of Series 1, had a period of no-Nightwave, no-Intermission and no-Alerts because they don't have any kind of roadmap or planification. 

[(NSW)Kokojo]

17 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

that is a switch problem then because I can pub trydolans on PC with an Oberon, rubico prime, plinx, and a random melee I have almost done a 3x3 in pubs and that was only prevented by one of the randows wasting 5 min causing dawn to rise right before I could kill terry (one synovian kill away and the shield was already down before he left) granted I do run a high strength buff build so that my Oberon can cover 3 of the 4 roles in a trydolan fight (only volt's crit damage buff remains, with smite infusion I have a damage buff, magnetic protection on my 2 and lure heals on my 3 and if needed with vaserin) however amps are another story will most will work some are better than others if you done want to do the eydolan hunts before you have a good amp fortuna has some of the better amp parts however once you can eydolan the quills ones are easier to get and good enough currently I run a 327 amp for max eydolan damage but I am working on making a x27 for better utility how ever a 211 will work just fine and has good utility or even a 111 is good enough for terry hunting.  granted there might be some other issues on switch that I don't know about as a PC player where trydolan's can be done in pubs but there is still a toxic ultra meta tryhards that do 3x5 for the loot.  

Well, I have Oberon and I can solo it, I just don't like the experience. I can currentlly do a 3x1 (since I don't have any Rubico Riven and i can't be bothered with SU). Might try to use Smite infusion, it seems iy really does make a difference (if my energy can keep up that is). I'm currently running a 223.

But again, just the grind to get the Quills standing and the Amps already kills it foe me, because you are doing the exact same thing, just faster, it doesn't change that much.

[(PSN)FastestKnight]

19 hours ago, (PS4)Herrwann69 said:

Speaking of consoles, the game is empty on PS4 Asian servers.

 

I'm a console player and I'm part of different PS4 community groups on various games. It's really sad to see how the big Destiny, Path of Exile or Borderlands groups have 100 players (maximum number displayed) currently playing each game but the largest Warframe group (Warframe Casual Community) only averages 10 online players maximum at any time.

 

At least I can find other players in-game. 

[DeMonkey]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)FastestKnight said:

Speaking of which, what is going on with Nightwave?

Inb4 another intermission.

[spirit_of_76]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

Well, I have Oberon and I can solo it, I just don't like the experience. I can currentlly do a 3x1 (since I don't have any Rubico Riven and i can't be bothered with SU). Might try to use Smite infusion, it seems iy really does make a difference (if my energy can keep up that is). I'm currently running a 223.

But again, just the grind to get the Quills standing and the Amps already kills it foe me, because you are doing the exact same thing, just faster, it doesn't change that much.

smight infusion is a 200ish % radiation damage mod so it does but it is not as good as a chroma buff, some fun things shooting the the eidoaln while it is imune for combo will increase your damage and still procs arcane momentum (sniper reload speed on crit drops from terry) if you are not using renewal energy plates are worth having as are ammo plates, some of the arch guns are as good or better for this but are a tad neishe (granted the rivens for them are easier to get thanks to being in the arbitration store or loot table) Quill and VOX  grind is not that bad if you only do 1-3 missions for them a play session (eg: exploter, trydolans, exploiter which will cap your standing for both up to MR 20) as for SU standing explotier then sell the gems or doing bounties works quite well there (I get that max SU to unlock vox is a pain but SU standing is easy to get unless you are low MR where the time gating hurts the most) as for rivens they are unneeded with the Rubico prime and not that useful any more because of the disp changes.  some other things you can use are the dique (the bow equivalent of the lanka) and the quellor (new rail jack gun if that is out on switch stupid high crit on alt fire but will need ammo pads)

[spirit_of_76]

On 2020-01-06 at 6:39 AM, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

I've never met a low mr player who doesn't care about mr.

Uhh I didn't after MR 10 but I am still MR 18 with out trying to be.  granted for the most part you are right especially for the sub MR 10 crowd 

[844448]

12 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

I can get literally 30 guns in Destiny in time it takes for a single part to drop in Warframe.

Random rolls ARE ok... ONLY IF you give the player a truck ton of them at all times. THAT'S the difference.

What's the difference? A truck ton of crap with a few crap, I rather take some time than being instantly gratified with truck ton of crap and it's not like we don't have Sigma series for a basic gear before jumping into the random rolls

[844448]

4 hours ago, Valok said:

I have pretty much everything, aside from some rare avionics from Earth/Saturn which I feel are not worth farming/buying atm. The main unbalanced thing in RJ right now is the sheer headache that it can be to get a reactor with at least 65/70+ AV, which is gonna be around how much you will need to get a "fun" RJ going.

2% as a mission completion reward, that then will be rolled between 30-100 AV's and can't be upgraded or at the very least traded (right now I would prefer to just farm plat).. I enjoy grinding when I find the gameplay fun (and RJ is fun when its not bugging out) but even with my high tolerance for grind I found this to be too much.

Everything including Zetki Hyperstrike for up to 121% turret damage installed on your railjack? Also there's Sigma MK 3 for a fixed 50 avionics increase to use before finding one with 50+

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Nope, dont think I said so. The game has a stable playerbase already. I'm not sure if you somehow think I mean something else with stable. It's stable, solid, reliable, uhm and whatever word that may be synonymous with stable. I think what I'm saying is that even with a massive drop down to much lower number the game would still have a stable playerbase.

I still dont see it as unusual, since WF is a f2p title where the player retention behavior is common to act the way it now does for WF. The thing is just that WF started slow and popularity increased, while several other games hit their top player numbers early on and then experience the peaks and dips for the rest of their life. I'm not sure if it should be seen as a positive or a negative thing that WF was a slow starter. Likely positive since it shows the game has improved over the years.

A game that has been hyping the #*!% out of its updates should have an increase in playerbase when the update hits. If warframe's playerbase is STILL declining then what the hell are we doing at this point?