How powerful are the Operators?

[(XBOX)Doragonzuk]

How powerful are the operators in the canon, are they as powerful as they were at the end of the second dream or more towards the War Within? I don't know if it has already been stated I was just wondering 

Edited December 17, 2019 by (XB1)Sirmike2529

[Icarust312]

Not so powerful considering they get squeezed by low level grinner lol

[(XBOX)Doragonzuk]

1 minute ago, Icarust312 said:

Not so powerful considering they get squeezed by low level grinner lol

Yeah fare

[PollexMessier]

not powerful enough to use their void abilities to have actually fun movement mechanics apparently

Edited November 28, 2019 by PollexMessier

[(XBOX)Doragonzuk]

1 minute ago, PollexMessier said:

not powerful enough to use their void abilities to have actually fun movement mechanics apparently

Yeah, I kinda thought for a while they should just get the old movement system,  but they are having talk's about the old movement system so fingers crossed.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Well, apparently Operators can die, but only in convoluted ways. sure, we get one-shot by anything above level 20 even with health and armour perks, but the only punishment is Transference static which reduces your Warframe's max health and only stacks up to 3 times. being able to be invisible AND invincible at the same time and dash through the air is also something of note.

there could be more tweaks of course. personally I wouldn't mind giving operators their own set of 4 skills based on their focus school. for example:

- a Madurai ability that allows the Operator to buff all allies' damage in range.

- a Vazarin ability that revives people from a distance by shooting them with your Amp.

- an Unairu ability that produces a large void shield in front of you that blocks incoming damage.

- a Naramon ability that allows you to teleport to enemies/allies

- a Zenurik ability that increases power Efficiency for allies in range.

^those are just throwaway examples which can be changed, the point is that I think if Operators had even more power capabilities that complement the player's preferred style (which is evident by the Focus School they prefer to run with), people would likely enjoy using Operator mode a lot more and consider using it even outside of where Operator mode is forced, such as Kuva Siphons/Floods.

[TARINunit9]

3 hours ago, (XB1)Sirmike2529 said:

How powerful are the operators in the cannon, are they as powerful as they were at the end of the second dream or more towards the War Within? I don't know if it has already been stated I was just wondering 

The only two times in the canon (canon and cannon are very different things btw) where we get a solid showing of power from the Z-kids (the Ember Prime codex and the Chains of Harrow comic) they are capable of killing unarmored adult humans with a clean headshot and delivering severe burns with grazes. They are demonstrably far weaker than warframes in combat scenarios, and are likely imprisoned by the Orokin out of superstition, not practicality

[Olphalarepth]

18 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

The only two times in the canon (canon and cannon are very different things btw) where we get a solid showing of power from the Z-kids (the Ember Prime codex and the Chains of Harrow comic) they are capable of killing unarmored adult humans with a clean headshot and delivering severe burns with grazes. They are demonstrably far weaker than warframes in combat scenarios, and are likely imprisoned by the Orokin out of superstition, not practicality

You speak the truth but there is obviously WAY more than just this. A human that can kill another human without protection is the same as a another one wielding a loaded gun. If Tenno were simply kids with weak laser built in their arms I think they would had got rid of them in 0.1 microseconds and asked what was for dinner.

No, the Orokins were terrified of them and, I believe, somewhere in the codex it was stated they had to actually contain the Tenno so I think it's more like the Orokins were aware of the extreme destructive potential Tenno would have been capable of if they were to properly channel their powers. I mean, lore wise we are infused with the void that is pretty much the strongest thing known in the universe by a civilization that makes the reapers of mass effect look like giant squid toys....The story is yet to finish and I'm sure the Duviri paradox will shed some light on how Tenno powers are OP "cannon" wise.

 

In reality, as other players have pointed out, a greneer is resistant to void beams and we are pretty average except for a few occasions and certain enemies.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Olphalarepth

[Loza03]

If I had to guess there's a degree of 'psychic barriers' in the way of their potential, as well as physical limitations of how much void power they can process at any one time. Psychic because, well, they can only do what they themselves are convinced they can do. Their abilities are primarily psychosomatic in nature. Without any kind of mechanical way to disprove their limits (like lifting weights), they have to rely on self-confidence or briefly forgetting their limits in a key moment to achieve the same thing as lifting a weight they didn't know they could.

When we start examining their abilities, it gets slightly insane. Zenurik alone has enhanced telekinesis (pulls as well as pushes from void blast), electrokinesis, thermodynamic-defying energy generation and chronokinesis. Then there's transference and transcendence. These abilities demonstrate something crazier still - Operator powers are not limited to their physical bodies, but instead to wherever they're thinking of, with no range limit or time delay. Remember, in Mag Prime's codex entry, a Tenno Operates a Warframe in another star system, light years away, and does so with no reduction in abilities. Transcendence demonstrates they can project their powers thus far as well, able to use their most basic power (void beam) without being physically present. This theoretically applies to other powers too.

In theory, an Operator could straight-up become godlike, able to cause havoc in far-off sectors without ever being physically present. Let's also not forget their propensity for ESP as well, which is the explanation for the opening cinematics, so they would be able to 'see' things in those areas.

 

So yeah, it does seem that they have the potential to be far more powerful than they actually are right now. The Orokin were right to imprison them. Bear in mind that the Operators were just occasionally producing 'outbursts' of these powers at random, so the Orokin were probably just seeing reality warp in crazy ways on a random basis wherever these kiddos were contained.

[JackHargreav]

Well either they OP as #*!% in cannon and weak in game or my theory is that over time we lost the power we had in the beginning.

It would make sense since in the war within we had to recover some of our previous powers.

[Skaleek]

They're as powerful as you make them? With magus lockdown I can sit in operator invulnerable and wipe out the enemies by just dashing around and refilling my energy. Using vazarin i make all my allies and defense objectives invulnerable. They seem pretty powerful.

[ILOHARTA]

they are powerful enough to require cages called "Warframes" to contain their threat.

[Colyeses]

Gonna put in a spoiler bit here.

Spoiler

It is implied that after the Zariman 10-0 incident, some of the Tenno were afflicted with some void-related madness. In the War Within, it is stated that some of the operators hunted the adults for sport. 

Given that the Zariman was a colony ship, it was likely home to a lot of civilians, but it's unlikely that there were no weapons and no military personnel on board. It's likely that the Tenno were actually exceedingly powerful, but thanks to Margulis' Transference project, they were able to siphon off the excess void energy into a suitable host: The Warframes. 

It may be possible to restore more and more power, however. I believe in the final confrontation of Chains of Harrow, Rell's powers were used by the Man in the Wall to fight us off, and that showed a considerably more powerful operator. Also, in the Sacrifice, the Tenno's influence proved strong enough to beat that of Ballas, despite the Tenno likely having comparatively little experience. 

Overall, I think they are considered to be quite powerful, but I think the biggest asset is that the power of the void is complex and largely uncharted, making it extremely difficult to mount any kind of defense against it. Heck, Cy doesn't seem to fully understand the workings of the Reliquary Drive, and he's operated it before. That shows how little is known of the Void.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Colyeses

[Snydrex]

From a lore standpoint, I believed that they were the light, and Warframes were the Lenses, as in, DE stated that Operators were like the casters that controlled infested shells to use in combat. So, in theory, Operators should be quite enigmatic and powerful to enemy factions.

But Umbra came out, a Warframe that needed no operator at all to function, so... maybe Warframes don't even need operators, I don't know.

They SHOULD be powerful, but,,, there are some things that make me reconsider that notion.

[Loza03]

4 minutes ago, Snydrex said:

From a lore standpoint, I believed that they were the light, and Warframes were the Lenses, as in, DE stated that Operators were like the casters that controlled infested shells to use in combat. So, in theory, Operators should be quite enigmatic and powerful to enemy factions.

But Umbra came out, a Warframe that needed no operator at all to function, so... maybe Warframes don't even need operators, I don't know.

They SHOULD be powerful, but,,, there are some things that make me reconsider that notion.

I interpret it this way.

Operators are spiritual strength (made manifest through void energy) whereas Warframes are physical strength. A complete warrior needs to embrace both aspects. An Operator without a Warframe is still extremely dangerous, but fragile and limited by physical needs. A Warframe without an Operator is either unable to muster the will (literally) to fight or do anything, or so wild and uncontrolled as to be simply an animal.

This is why I'm opposed to simply giving Operators movement 1.0, even though I think they should get more movement - it doesn't fit them. They should use and leverage their void powers in their own way to move through an environment.

[(XBOX)Doragonzuk]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I interpret it this way.

Operators are spiritual strength (made manifest through void energy) whereas Warframes are physical strength. A complete warrior needs to embrace both aspects. An Operator without a Warframe is still extremely dangerous, but fragile and limited by physical needs. A Warframe without an Operator is either unable to muster the will (literally) to fight or do anything, or so wild and uncontrolled as to be simply an animal.

This is why I'm opposed to simply giving Operators movement 1.0, even though I think they should get more movement - it doesn't fit them. They should use and leverage their void powers in their own way to move through an environment.

Yeah that's fare but maybe they could get a modified version of movement 1.0 that puts emphasis on the void abilities.

Edited November 28, 2019 by (XB1)Sirmike2529

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Well once they master their focus and ways, they're pretty strong. At least in game. 

[Lakais]

Depends entirely on what you mean "powerful" In-game practical stat wise? Not very. Though not as weak as many make them out to be. A tank build operator is right up there with some of the better frames but lack of shields and easier to use health-gain options hampers Operators. Not to mention if you aren't a mad dervish of spinning rubberball nonsense armed with a "weapon" that half the times breaks the math involved in its function, you'll get hit more often and by more enemies and thus you die more. 

In-universe, Operators are not much more tanky then baseline human but their void power lets them become nigh-immortal genocide demons. But the details are hazy because the entire Operator system is still very barebones. 

I'm very interested and curious about the Duviri thing that showed older Operators using weapons. Seeing how Teshin can move and some other non-Tenno characters, letting us "build up" operators to be more viable in direct combat is not a stretch. Use some Fieldtron to modify our operator armor to have shields, hit the gym with a nice protein shake and bulk up, follow that with a training montage and you got a combat-operator. 

Personally, I am somewhat intrigued by the concept that maybe using your operator would make them more capable. Meaning, they start to move faster and be more agile and at some point being able to pick up enemy weapons or even bring sidearms into battle. But only if the player chooses to use the operator. Granted, this idea is bad on a practical level because then players would be forced to "grind" the operators but then again, that's nothing new to a warframe player. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Lakais

[(PSN)Dishinshoryuken]

I have come to think that the comics of WARFRAME are a different storyline than the game. I read the comics from the path of Excal getting caught by the Grinny to Mag showing up to help Little Duck and the blind girl as well as the story of Rell and there are some things that do not show in them.

First there is the fact that the frames actually have hard times with the enemies they faced in these stories. This seems to stem from the fact that the enemies do not drop ammo, health orbs, or energy as they do in our game. This shows it is another universe. This also happens with Rell. We see the Adults shot by the Tenno get up after being shot as well as there being no info of Harrow and Rell in Lotus info banks. This goes along with this being another universe as well  With that info, we now know that Rell is from another universe which somehow dropped into ours...which could explain the Ten-Zero not having any children as it never did ..but in another universe, it did (I sti stand by the idea the Ten-Zero had no children at all and the force in the Void created them by using the DNA from the crew on the ship....like a petri dish sampling using their flesh and it's connection powers).

Which tells us that the Void Demons are not really part of our universe but they came here and had an effect on the Frames. They harness some powers from the Void but as we have seen, they are not as strong as a free Frame. It's powers can kill them as well as take them out of the Void. Death only falls on the Void Demons twice in the game which ends up with time jumping back OR a deja Vu that you have done this before.

I use the Void Demon as a tool instead of seeing it as the main being of the game as there are some things that say they are not what they seem to be.

[Loza03]

3 hours ago, Lakais said:

Depends entirely on what you mean "powerful" In-game practical stat wise? Not very. Though not as weak as many make them out to be. A tank build operator is right up there with some of the better frames but lack of shields and easier to use health-gain options hampers Operators. Not to mention if you aren't a mad dervish of spinning rubberball nonsense armed with a "weapon" that half the times breaks the math involved in its function, you'll get hit more often and by more enemies and thus you die more. 

In-universe, Operators are not much more tanky then baseline human but their void power lets them become nigh-immortal genocide demons. But the details are hazy because the entire Operator system is still very barebones. 

I'm very interested and curious about the Duviri thing that showed older Operators using weapons. Seeing how Teshin can move and some other non-Tenno characters, letting us "build up" operators to be more viable in direct combat is not a stretch. Use some Fieldtron to modify our operator armor to have shields, hit the gym with a nice protein shake and bulk up, follow that with a training montage and you got a combat-operator. 

Personally, I am somewhat intrigued by the concept that maybe using your operator would make them more capable. Meaning, they start to move faster and be more agile and at some point being able to pick up enemy weapons or even bring sidearms into battle. But only if the player chooses to use the operator. Granted, this idea is bad on a practical level because then players would be forced to "grind" the operators but then again, that's nothing new to a warframe player. 

Personally, whilst I'd prefer to keep them as fairly physically weak to keep the dualism relationship with Warframes going, I've got nothing against them augmenting their physical abilities with void powers, or using voidpowers to substitute physical might, just as Warframes are primarily physical-focused but have a big element of superpowers. Void blast augmenting martial arts, using void-enhanced weaponry to make up for insufficient physical strength to use actual big guns or blinking around the battlefield like Vergil as their main form of in-combat mobility.

 

Personally, I feel like the biggest untapped potential lies in Flight, or some more limited derivative (like Hildryn's Aegis Storm?). They've often been depicted with some degree of floating ability, particularly in Transcendence pre TWW, which also gave them energy 'wings' of sorts. Why this road hasn't been explored yet beyond Transcendence is beyond me.

If nothing else, I want this or something like it back. Preferably with some buffs of course, but Transcendence is among the coolest abilities the Operators have in Warframe and it's a damn shame we don't get to see it post TWW. You could even split it into multiple abilities or a 'powered up' mode for the Operator.

[Aldain]

In terms of Physical strength I think they couldn't even beat Alad V at arm wrestling.

[Siegecraft]

being strong doesnt mean physical strength  operator  r immortal being powered by the energy of the void @colyeses

he explained the lore above  tho the fragment of memory where lost in time or void in past they were powerful enough to have fought of the senteiants and other or some thing inn the  lore

 

[Sitchrea]

Lore-wise, Tenno can possess anything using Transference. It's not restricted to Warframes canonically - only out of practical gameplay reasons. You know how your Operator possessed the Golden Maw during the War Within? Yeah, the Creative Director said they can technically do that to anything - they just can't in regular gameplay because it'd be a nightmare for the animation team to code a Grineer Lancer doing bullet jumps while swinging a katana.

[BDMblue]

In game your about a level 80-100 in range of damage. You are less tanky then that range and can take 4 shots. With some fortuna arcanes you have max hp% damage so that means at some point you out damage frames.

[Olphalarepth]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Dishinshoryuken said:

I have come to think that the comics of WARFRAME are a different storyline than the game. I read the comics from the path of Excal getting caught by the Grinny to Mag showing up to help Little Duck and the blind girl as well as the story of Rell and there are some things that do not show in them.

It is canon with what we play. A certain dialogue with a certain NPC proves it

Little duck