1000 Dirac = 1 Intrinsics point

[JohnnyMeta]

Why? Why not? 

Just as there are other ways to claim daily focus. This could be a solution for those who have too much Dirac and there is no way to use it, because we have completed everything we want.

[Goodwill]

Oh don't worry, DE will bring out the Hemanox turret that requires 6 million Dirac to craft.

[Joe_Barbarian]

9 minutes ago, JohnnyMeta said:

Why? Why not? 

Just as there are other ways to claim daily focus. This could be a solution for those who have too much Dirac and there is no way to use it, because we have completed everything we want.

Because that's a grey zone of Pay2Win and Pay to Progress faster. 
1000 dirac = 1 intrinsic point = 50 plat. That'll be like paying so you don't have to re-level your warframe after every time you put a forma into it.

[SordidDreams]

Just now, Joe_Barbarian said:

Because that's a grey zone of Pay2Win and Pay to Progress faster. 
1000 dirac = 1 intrinsic point = 50 plat. That'll be like paying so you don't have to re-level your warframe after every time you put a forma into it.

So like affinity boosters?

[Joe_Barbarian]

Just now, SordidDreams said:

So like affinity boosters?

Affinity booster increases your affinity gains, just like how the Smeeta cat buff works. You aren't directly paying for levels using a resource that can be bought with Plat. Like I said: Because that's a grey zone of Pay2Win and Pay to Progress faster. 

Booster = Pay to progress faster
Using a resource that is obtained through premium currency (platinum) to essentially level you up = Pay to win. But because it's also easily obtainable for most I wouldn't say it's game breaking Pay2Win but at the same time it's going beyond what you could classify as Pay to Progress faster.

[SordidDreams]

3 hours ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Affinity booster increases your affinity gains, just like how the Smeeta cat buff works. You aren't directly paying for levels using a resource that can be bought with Plat. Like I said: Because that's a grey zone of Pay2Win and Pay to Progress faster. 

Booster = Pay to progress faster
Using a resource that is obtained through premium currency (platinum) to essentially level you up = Pay to win. But because it's also easily obtainable for most I wouldn't say it's game breaking Pay2Win but at the same time it's going beyond what you could classify as Pay to Progress faster.

You are paying for levels. If you have a booster, every point of affinity that you gain gets you an extra point from the booster. You'd be gaining that base affinity either way, so what you did was directly buy extra affinity for money. In other words, if you have a booster and forma a frame two times, you rank it to max twice in the same amount of time that it would take to do so once without a booster. So what that money effectively bought you was precisely what you said, the ability to put a forma into a frame without having to spend time ranking it up.

Edited December 30, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Myscho]

Only 1000 ? Thats way too cheap

[Joe_Barbarian]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

You are paying for levels. If you have a booster, every point of affinity that you gain gets you an extra point from the booster. You'd be gaining that base affinity either way, so what you did was directly buy extra affinity for money. In other words, if you have a booster and forma a frame two times, you rank it to max in the same amount of time that it would take to do so once without a booster. So what that money bought you was precisely what you said, the ability to put a forma into a frame without having to spend time ranking it up again.

The difference is that with an Affinity booster you have to play to get the benefits of said booster. With directly buying intrinsic (which gives you mastery points as well btw) you aren't doing anything to earn that.

[ReaverKane]

why tho? In a few months you'll run out of S#&$ to use intrinsics on, and then you'll be asking for 1 intrinsic = 1000 Dirac or something...
Stop trying to do things in one day that aren't meant to be done in one day.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

Just now, SordidDreams said:

You are paying for levels. If you have a booster, every point of affinity that you gain gets you an extra point from the booster. You'd be gaining that base affinity either way, so what you did was directly buy extra affinity for money. In other words, if you have a booster and forma a frame two times, you rank it to max in the same amount of time that it would take to do so once without a booster. So what that money bought you was precisely what you said, the ability to put a forma into a frame without having to spend time ranking it up again.

The difference being that, if you could buy affinity directly, you wouldn't need to do any missions to get affinity.

With the booster, the amount of mission time is halved.

With direct payment, the amount of mission time is reduced to 0, no matter how much time was needed before.

The entire difference is that, while the time needed if a booster is present is halved, there is still time required. If you had time to forma once without a booster, you have time to forma twice without a booster.

If paying directly for affinity, you can do a theoretically infinite number of forma in a given amount of time, limited only by the speed at which your computer can process inputs.

This is a very big difference.

[8faiNt]

17 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

Because that's a grey zone of Pay2Win and Pay to Progress faster. 
1000 dirac = 1 intrinsic point = 50 plat. That'll be like paying so you don't have to re-level your warframe after every time you put a forma into it.

so wait the whole railjack experience wasnt p2w? repair drones requiring no resources to build the part is more than p2skip than p2w it may be 50p but it is still the most logical thing to do which is forcing you to spend plat if you dont wanna farm for hours

 

and yes not wasting a single min on railjack is a win considering how pathetic the gameplay is

Edited December 30, 2019 by 8faiNt

[SordidDreams]

4 minutes ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

The difference is that with an Affinity booster you have to play to get the benefits of said booster. With directly buying intrinsic (which gives you mastery points as well btw) you aren't doing anything to earn that.

Isn't that a good thing, though? If we're paying for boosters to not have to play the game as much, playing the game must be a thing we don't want. So being able to pay to not have to play the game at all should be pretty popular with the player base and profitable for DE.

  

3 minutes ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

The difference being that, if you could buy affinity directly, you wouldn't need to do any missions to get affinity.

With the booster, the amount of mission time is halved.

With direct payment, the amount of mission time is reduced to 0, no matter how much time was needed before.

The entire difference is that, while the time needed if a booster is present is halved, there is still time required. If you had time to forma once without a booster, you have time to forma twice without a booster.

If paying directly for affinity, you can do a theoretically infinite number of forma in a given amount of time, limited only by the speed at which your computer can process inputs.

This is a very big difference.

See above. Yeah, it's a big difference, in that paying without having to play at all is much better. If we're paying to play less, playing must be bad. So paying to not play at all must be great.

Edited December 30, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Arkandae]

il y a 19 minutes, Joe_Barbarian a dit :

Because that's a grey zone of Pay2Win and Pay to Progress faster. 
1000 dirac = 1 intrinsic point = 50 plat. That'll be like paying so you don't have to re-level your warframe after every time you put a forma into it.

That would be about 8560€ without discount. If some people are really willing to pay this for 10/10/10/10 then why not. Having a ressources sink for "normal" players can't be bad.

il y a 12 minutes, Joe_Barbarian a dit :

Because that's a grey zone of Pay2Win and Pay to Progress faster. 

We're already in the greyzone. 

il y a 4 minutes, Myscho a dit :

Only 1000 ? Thats way too cheap

I have 944 instrinsics points and 89k diracs. it's about 10% more, sounds ok

Edited December 30, 2019 by Arkandae

[Joe_Barbarian]

5 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

so wait the whole railjack experience wasnt p2w? repair drones requiring no resources to build the part is more than p2skip than p2w it may be 50p but it is still the most logical thing to do which is forcing you to spend plat if you dont wanna farm for hours

Rush Repair Drones are a grey area, I wouldn't define them as pay2win but they are more than just Pay to Progress faster as they take the resource gathering from it. I don't agree with at all.

4 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Isn't that a good thing, though? If we're paying for boosters to not have to play the game as much, playing the game must be a thing we don't want. So being able to pay to not have to play the game at all should be pretty popular with the player base and profitable for DE.

What is your argument then?

4 minutes ago, Arkandae said:

That would be about 8560€ without discount. If some people are really willing to pay this for 10/10/10/10 then why not. Having a ressources sink for "normal" players can't be bad.

We're already in the greyzone. 

I have 944 instrinsics points and 89k diracs. it's about 10% more, sounds ok

All because a single item (Rush Repair Drones) are in the grey area doesn't mean we should be asking for more.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

6 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Isn't that a good thing, though? If we're paying for boosters to not have to play the game as much, playing the game must be a thing we don't want. So being able to pay to not have to play the game at all should be pretty popular with the player base and profitable for DE.

  

See above. Yeah, it's a big difference, in that paying without having to play at all is much better. If we're paying to play less, playing must be bad. So paying to not play at all must be great.

It's not that we don't want to play, it's just that we want our play time to be more rewarding.

Same reason players use resource or credit boosters. We enjoy what we are doing, but if you have the option to make it twice as rewarding (and therefore get twice the reward in the limited time you have to play), then it feels even better.

It also means you can spend your time more diversely. Instead of having to spend an entire day applying forma, or an entire day farming The Index, you can do both, and some other stuff, and still make progress in the game. The point being that Hydron and The Index are fun to play a few times in a row, but needing to do it 10+ times in a row gets exhausting.

[SordidDreams]

1 minute ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

What is your argument then?

That pay to skip and pay to win are the same thing, and that this business model warps game design and causes devs to make their games into unfun chores in order to motivate people to pay to not have to play them. I want the designers of my games to sit there thinking "how do we make this fun". Not "how do we get people addicted so they don't leave while we annoy them until they pay us to stop". See below for specific examples of such warped design in WF.

1 minute ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

It's not that we don't want to play, it's just that we want our play time to be more rewarding.

Same reason players use resource or credit boosters. We enjoy what we are doing, but if you have the option to make it twice as rewarding (and therefore get twice the reward in the limited time you have to play), then it feels even better.

It also means you can spend your time more diversely. Instead of having to spend an entire day applying forma, or an entire day farming The Index, you can do both, and some other stuff, and still make progress in the game. The point being that Hydron and The Index are fun to play a few times in a row, but needing to do it 10+ times in a row gets exhausting.

 

[Arkandae]

il y a 11 minutes, Joe_Barbarian a dit :

All because a single item (Rush Repair Drones) are in the grey area doesn't mean we should be asking for more.

There are a lot more things in the grey area of P2W in warframe.

[gluih]

I'm hoping we can just spend the dirac on equipment rerolls. That would be way better than skipping the intrinsics. Sooner or later most players are going to have them maxed out anyway.

[(PSN)Eluminary]

The main reason they won't do this is people are progressing through railjack faster than they wanted already.  This would make it even faster to Max everything out which is something they do not want to happen quickly.

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

anyone remember infested salvage and defection? can we have them updated with new rewards, u know like weapon blueprints that can be cycled in and out? that hve higher that 1% chance.... that would help the game alot, that way people arnt rushing just the newest content, go back and update old content with new content or even resources that would be from railjack, so u can also grind hem outside of railjack 

[xBloodySin]

Pay2Win comments turn the forums into HurrDurr2Post.

[8faiNt]

1 hour ago, Joe_Barbarian said:

I don't agree with at all.

well to be fair I dont need your opinion to approve that the mechanic is pay2win. because it is, and thats actually a fact, considering how much of a big gap of a grind that is skippable with only 50p

Edited December 30, 2019 by 8faiNt

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Is it 1000 dirac for a single intrinsic level or 1000 dirac for an intrinsic tree upgrade (like gunnery 7-8)? 
 

if its the former, thats a useless idea. If its the latter, the time-to-plat/dirac upgrade difference becomes heavily unbalanced in later levels and sounds  Closer to pay-to-win then stuff weve had before

[Miser_able]

1 hour ago, ReaverKane said:

why tho? In a few months you'll run out of S#&$ to use intrinsics on, and then you'll be asking for 1 intrinsic = 1000 Dirac or something...
Stop trying to do things in one day that aren't meant to be done in one day.

Yea. It would be nice to have another use for Dirac. But converting it into another limited use item doesn't fix anything. 

Personally, I'd prefer avionic transmutation with Dirac as the fee. 

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, 8faiNt said:

so wait the whole railjack experience wasnt p2w? repair drones requiring no resources to build the part is more than p2skip than p2w it may be 50p but it is still the most logical thing to do which is forcing you to spend plat if you dont wanna farm for hours

 

and yes not wasting a single min on railjack is a win considering how pathetic the gameplay is

Drones are just like buying weapons, the difference is just that you need to find the BP first and hope it has the right stats before you buy the weapon. Other than that they both skip the material grind and build time.