So, about the RNG with the new update

[Thasnatos]

How do I start this ? You guys probably can see how people aka the community react to those RNG stats of the Rail Jack Armaments/Components in the past few days. But I'm not here today for that. I'm here for the way way way worse RNG that in the Empyrean update. 
"The Rare Container"

Spoiler

 So there're rare containers that contain Umbra forma BP, Sentient Captura sences and the new Ephemera "Tenebrous" 

Am I mad with this system ? yes I'm really mad. Why is it ? 
The first thing that annoys me is that you have to wait for the anomaly to appear - Well there're trackers for it just check semlar.com you say, fair point but the timer is really inconsistent sometimes the variable can be ±15-20 minutes. But tbh this is not as bad as the thing I'm about to say to you.
The RNG that the container either spawning or not spawning in the ship. So we all know there're new rare container that contain good sh*t right ? cool, within that rare container ther're multiple rewards "some are" as I listed above. That's our first RNG we have to deal with and I'm cool with that. And here's our 2nd RNG, there're not 1 new rare containers there're at least 3 rare containers (sentient ship only) and only 1 of them contain a specific reward as I listed above. not only that here's our next RNG that there's a really REALLY LOW chance that the container that have the reward that we want may spawn during our mission. To sum up what's I'm trying to say here is RNG within RNG within RNG within RNG.
How do I say this ... Imagine Eidolon hunt, instead of the current system where you kill/capture Teralyst then you can summon Gantulyst then you can summon Hydrolyst and each of them have a specific reward you want (e.g. you usually want to capture the Hydrolyst for best rewards). But no! How about the system that during the night in Plain of Eidolon only 1 out of 3 of the Eidolon may spawn and only 1 may spawn during the night you have to reset the mission to have the others to spawn and the chances are 95% to be Teralyst, 4% chance to be Gantulyst and only 1% chance to have Hydrolyst spawn. How does that feel ? isn't that the same mechanic of how "Rare Container" are now in the RJ missions ? Are you fine with it ? I don't know what are you trying to achieve by locking contents behind this bull crap RNG wall, but this is not how you do it, it's not right to lock contents away just so people can keep grinding your game.
Anyway that's just my opinion.

Topic open for discussion, tell me how you feel about the new update ? Are you satisfied with the experience the update offered you ?

Edited December 30, 2019 by ZlzeoznZ

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

The fact that power (Umbral Forma) is now rewarded not based on effort, but on luck, leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

I liked the fact that Umbral Forma required a decent investment into the Nightwave system, and was limited in its acquisition. This meant that players had to be very deliberate about how they used it; never put it on a non-prime frame, only put it on a frame that wants at least 2 umbral mods in all of its builds, make sure that the frame you put it on is one you enjoy, etc. Now, one could theoretically apply one or more umbral forma to every frame, standard and prime, if they were lucky enough, while the majority of other players are still limited to the slow acquisition rate provided by Nightwave.

[Midas]

This,

force rare containers (yellow and red) to spawn once per sentient ship at the minimum.

 

[Quimoth]

I just really hope 2020 will make the time-gate go away eventually.

I don't get why we can't "discover" the sentient ship after a railjack/spy mixed type of mission rewarding a "sentient outpost nav cord" item like invasion can reward mutalist alad V nav cords. It is a pain to farm mutalist alad V nav cords consistently but it is better than the current 3 hour waiting to get a mere 30 minutes to find what you need.

As I see it now, I just think the new war will make these sentient outposts a lot more common and it will probably remove the time-gate or make it a once per hour thing since we will be getting a sentient invasion.

[DreisterDino]

vor einer Stunde schrieb -AoN-CanoLathra-:

The fact that power (Umbral Forma) is now rewarded not based on effort, but on luck, leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

I liked the fact that Umbral Forma required a decent investment into the Nightwave system, and was limited in its acquisition. This meant that players had to be very deliberate about how they used it; never put it on a non-prime frame, only put it on a frame that wants at least 2 umbral mods in all of its builds, make sure that the frame you put it on is one you enjoy, etc. Now, one could theoretically apply one or more umbral forma to every frame, standard and prime, if they were lucky enough, while the majority of other players are still limited to the slow acquisition rate provided by Nightwave.

According to [DE]Scott RNG is a mechanism of balance 😄 (he said that some time ago regarding Rivens)

Of course that is nonsense since, like you explained, one player might swim in Umbra-Forma's while others dont see any of those.

 

@ZlzeoznZI agree that RNG is getting out of hand lately with Liches, Railjack Components and your example of the containers (i didnt know about this yet).

I suggest everyone to post in the Feedback-Megathread aswell and voice your opinion about RNG there, i've done it yesterday aswell. Here is the link:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1151334-pc-empyrean-railjack-mission-and-difficulty-feedback-megathread/page/11/?tab=comments#comment-11285249

[Miser_able]

Well, if the crates are attached to the tileset then it should be easier to get them when the ship becomes easier to access. Such as when the new war drops. 

But yea, rare crate farming is a pain. I've only seen one of those crates once. When I broke it by accident and got a captura scene. Since then, I've run the ship twice to farm crates and promptly gave up. 

[Thasnatos]

3 minutes ago, DreisterDino said:

According to [DE]Scott RNG is a mechanism of balance 😄 (he said that some time ago regarding Rivens)

Of course that is nonsense since, like you explained, one player might swim in Umbra-Forma's while others dont see any of those.

 

@ZlzeoznZI agree that RNG is getting out of hand lately with Liches, Railjack Components and your example of the containers (i didnt know about this yet).

I suggest everyone to post in the Feedback-Megathread aswell and voice your opinion about RNG there, i've done it yesterday aswell. Here is the link:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1151334-pc-empyrean-railjack-mission-and-difficulty-feedback-megathread/page/11/?tab=comments#comment-11285249

Thank you, I'll try to post there as well and hope together we will bring a stop to this nonsense RNG grind.

[SneakyErvin]

Since the RNG of the Umbra BP is locked behind an initial RNG aswell the people that do find one of the BPs will be extremely lucky. The difference between someone only doing NW for Umbra and someone who also chases rare containers will be minimal when it comes to the final "hoard" of Umbra Forma.

The container itself has something like 0.3% chance of spawning on a tile (sentient ship and other indoor areas in Veil), then the Umbra BP itself sits at a 0.3% chance or something aswell. That wont be many drops over a year even for the person actively farming them with the availability we have now.

[Vit0Corleone]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

The container itself has something like 0.3% chance of spawning on a tile (sentient ship and other indoor areas in Veil), then the Umbra BP itself sits at a 0.3% chance or something aswell

Where are you getting these numbers from? Or is it just a guess?

[Thasnatos]

21 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Since the RNG of the Umbra BP is locked behind an initial RNG aswell the people that do find one of the BPs will be extremely lucky. The difference between someone only doing NW for Umbra and someone who also chases rare containers will be minimal when it comes to the final "hoard" of Umbra Forma.

The container itself has something like 0.3% chance of spawning on a tile (sentient ship and other indoor areas in Veil), then the Umbra BP itself sits at a 0.3% chance or something aswell. That wont be many drops over a year even for the person actively farming them with the availability we have now.

As I give an example earlier if we apply the same RNG to the Eidolon hunting. If we can't farm Tridolon as we are doing right now and instead of that we have Hydrolyst for example have  0.3% - 1% spawn rate during the night in PoE and have 0.3% - 1% to drop 1 arcane among 31 arcanes. Either you become "extremely lucky" to have 1-2 R0 Arcane Energize during an eidolon hunt or waiting to have it as NW reward. Well that making the difference between someone only doing NW only for arcanes and someone who hunt Eidolon for the arcanes minimal as you said, yes BUT it's not a good option to have or had, is it ?

Why can't we have the RJ to be the next Eidolon hunting ? people want to keep playing for the good stuffs it can offer ? why make so limited rewards/contents that locked behind the great wall of RNG like a lottery 1 out of 2 billion people that has a chance to win the prize ?

Edited December 30, 2019 by ZlzeoznZ

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, Vit0Corleone said:

Where are you getting these numbers from? Or is it just a guess?

Based on the normal containers and some info I found online somewhere. It is equal to the versions found elsewhere in the game, the difference is the loot table being slightly changed. Dirac instead of endo aswell as railjack resources in there aswell, possibly replacing detonite and then umbra forma slapped ontop of it all.

For the sentient version I have no idea since it is a completely new container. But I expect it is filled with the same crap and a captura scene instead of orbiter parts then umbra ontop of it aswell as ephemera.

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, ZlzeoznZ said:

As I give an example earlier if we apply the same RNG to the Eidolon hunting. If we can't farm Tridolon as we are doing right now and instead of that we have Hydrolyst for example have  0.3% - 1% spawn rate during the night in PoE and have 0.3% - 1% to drop 1 arcane among 31 arcanes. Either you become "extremely lucky" to have 1-2 R0 Arcane Energize during an eidolon hunt or waiting to have it as NW reward. Well that making the difference between someone only doing NW only for arcanes and someone who hunt Eidolon for the arcanes minimal as you said, yes BUT it's not a good option to have or had, didn't we ? 

Why can't we have the RJ to be the next Eidolon hunting ? people want to keep playing for the good stuffs it can offes ? why make so limited rewards/contents that lock behind the great wall of RNG like a lottery 1 out of 2 billion people that has a chance to win the prize ?

I think they just want Umbra forma to be very rare and limited. It may change with new war and what we have now is just a very small bonus.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

I don't enjoy it.  I also don't enjoy the increase in the access to umbral forma.  DE specifically didn't want Umbral mods to become a linear upgrade like how prime mods already are.  By making Umbral forma more available they've basically gone against this.

[Thasnatos]

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I think they just want Umbra forma to be very rare and limited. It may change with new war and what we have now is just a very small bonus.

I just hope they remove "some" RNG aspect out of it from the Empyrean update so it can be somewhat "like" the Eidolon hunting and we can actually have a reason to play it for the good rewards but in exchange we make the mission is really hard to complete like how Eidolon hunting works right now you can solo it but require a lot of skills and resources or you can have a fully set up party for more chilling but still need experience and skill to play and making the best out of it. The rewards are based on skill levels not by Random Number Generator and luck.
Although there're RNG in the reward pool for capturing the Hydrolyst but the skill level making that there's a huge difference between a newplayers party that can only do 1x3 per night vs a skilled party that can do 5-6x3 per night.

Edited December 30, 2019 by ZlzeoznZ

[JackHargreav]

9 minutes ago, Austringer said:

all kinds of bull s h i t

it's a mechanism of gating, force players into spending real money

game is a $$ btw

Wow dude. A free to play game wants to make money. Holy molly, I didn't think that can happen.

[Thasnatos]

18 minutes ago, Austringer said:

all kinds of bull s h i t

it's a mechanism of gating, force players into spending real money

game is a $$ btw

Please keep an open mind for discussion any opinion can be debate and open for discuss but please don't attack or harass any person, group or DE themselves I don't see the option to buy the 

Spoiler

new Ephemera or the Umbra Forma with platinums or real money

so your point of view may not be right at the moment. 

But I do agree that they should reduce or remove some aspect of the RNG grinding it's not healthy for the community and their game.

Edited December 30, 2019 by ZlzeoznZ

[Brey223]

I played long enough to get some MKIII stuff and then stopped. I ended up having to buy Sherpa parts cause gg on trying to get that weapon. 

[Anthraxicus]

DE pushed the RNG too far with this update. Of course, shills are always gonna find reasons to defend DE's behavior, with ever increasing layers of RNG with each new update, but it doesn't change the fact that the devs have gone insane. They think more RNG is challenging. The meme about fashion frame being end game has been replaced by RNG is the new end game.

[Itsmez]

I remember grinding for 3 years once a week for a mount in WOW and still i dont have it. Good times.

Alsong as its something i really dont need, i dont care

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Itsmez

[(PSN)robotwars7]

my main problem with it is that there's no specific time. it's anywhere from 2 to 2 and 3/4 hours, with no indicators as to whether it'll be 2 hours exactly or not. essentially you wait to hours and then you could spend up to 45 mins just clockwatching; something which DE said was the reason for taking alerts out of the game. remember them saying "you shouldn't be expected to be on at certain times for Vauban parts?" I do. if they insist on time-gating it, at least make the time gate consistent: once every 2 hours on the dot.

Eidolons: wait 100 mins, active for 50 mins. no clockwatching needed.

Vallis Time : cold for 26 mins, warm for 4 mins, no clockwatching required.

Veil Anomalies wait however long RNG decides to keep you waiting, then immediately sprint for your railjack and get into the Veil ASAP.

it's a bit mad to say the least.

Edited December 30, 2019 by (PS4)robotwars7

[schilds]

Even if something is fun to start, repeat it often enough, "solve" it, and it stops being fun. Arguably, rng/grind can sustain the value of activities that will otherwise diminish over time, and provide an additional control over the pace of rewards. This appears to be a double edged sword:

• If it's seen as a necessary grind, then it just becomes a chore to finish before (and/or so you can access or get on with) the fun parts.
• It can make fun things not fun.
• Rng has the additional problem of increasing anxiety, as there is no definite end to it. If you're unlucky it could go on forever.

Aside from those there are other drawbacks to rng. It is not a panacea. It should be used sparingly (if at all) after careful consideration. Not just thrown in haphazardly, with no maths done or understanding of its effects or what it actually (does not) contribute. It is a modifier of, not a substitute for, gameplay.

Edited December 31, 2019 by schilds

[Sahansral]

Doesn anyone got a rare container in crew ships?

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

It's funny, DE said something about adding more rewards based on achievement rather than just luck a while back, and I have never seen such a fast heel-turn before. 

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, ZlzeoznZ said:

I just hope they remove "some" RNG aspect out of it from the Empyrean update so it can be somewhat "like" the Eidolon hunting and we can actually have a reason to play it for the good rewards but in exchange we make the mission is really hard to complete like how Eidolon hunting works right now you can solo it but require a lot of skills and resources or you can have a fully set up party for more chilling but still need experience and skill to play and making the best out of it. The rewards are based on skill levels not by Random Number Generator and luck.
Although there're RNG in the reward pool for capturing the Hydrolyst but the skill level making that there's a huge difference between a newplayers party that can only do 1x3 per night vs a skilled party that can do 5-6x3 per night.

I hope so too. Seeing as how sentients will be a big thing for us in the future (or so it seems) it wouldnt be more than natural to let people get their hands on umbras in a bit more timely fashion so we can get anti-sentient setups on more frames and weapons.

And i agree, there should be more weight put on skill/effort than having things locked behind RNG everytime. Especially with things like the umbra forma and mods like condition overload, where the % chance is very very low and the content you can obtain it is being very narrow.