2020’s First Mainline: Review, Revise, Refresh: Part 2!

[Dovinjun]

3 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

Viral change, much like the nerf to cold long ago and now another one (where it no longer gives condition duration/slowed expiry time but not tick time of all other status procs and effects) seem like mistakes when it comes to potential build depth.

Also WHY THE HELL do the Ferrox and Pox have self stagger? One is a damn laser beam, other other a sac of poison that barely tickles enemies/only exists for status spread.

You'd stagger too if you stink bombed yourself

[Zeyez]

after those changes in corrosive status and Corrosive Projection, Shattering Impact will suffer anything or will keep working like it is right now?

[Eldirian]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

No damage buffs have been added, but any weapons with AOE are receiving ~20% increase in Radius. Additionally, AOE weapons are receiving a 90% Radial Damage Falloff from central impact. This means on the very outer section of the explosion Radius 10% of the Damage will be dealt. Tactics will be deadly - aim true, Tenno. 

Ah yes, the pre-nerf.

[sorcer3r]

Any news about Vauban rework? He is disappointing against Liches and Demolysts.

[Skaleek]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Puncture

The first Puncture Status Effect has an enemy deal 30% less Damage. Subsequent Puncture Status add +5% weakening, leading to up to 75% (capped). Each Puncture Status has a duration of 6 Seconds.

 

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Blast

AoE Impact that goes through enhanced stages of Crowd Control and Knockdown with repeat Status.
Grants the Blast Status Effect to all enemies in radius.
Blast Status reduces enemy accuracy by 30% base. Subsequent Blast Status Effects add +5% innacuracy for  for 75% total at 10 stacks. Each Blast Status has a 6 second Duration

These are bad status effects. They are not going to be used by anyone unless forced innately through weapon base damage types. Please find something more useful/interesting to give these procs.

The only enemies worth debuffing are immune to status effects. Think about it.

[Ham_Grenabe]

12 minutes ago, BloodRavenCap said:

We will no longer kill ourselves with self-damage, we'll be dying from enemies killing us after stagger.

It doesn't change much, it's just not your fault for dying. Someone else did it. 

[IgnisDraconis4316]

9 minutes ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

It already does stack, as of several patches ago, right after it got 50% armor reduction.

IgnisTrollis.  Please do go away and leave the people who open their mouths for a reason to talk.

What?  No it isn't.  You realize that the proc is literally a AoE toxic proc, right?  The major downside to gas is that gas damage itself doesn't ignore shields... the proc is a straight upgrade to toxic procs.

No. Just cause your a Grand Master doesn't mean you know anything. Nor should I listen to you.

Waiting to play the patch is just common sense as Steve, Rebecca and Scott have said multiple times. Because unlike players seem to think the DEVs are not idiots.

Its the same concept that everyone whined when it came to Oberon's rework, or Volt being dead due to Gauss, or Chroma being dead because of self damage, or many other things.

I'm tired of others saying for me to shut up cause my opinion and ideas don't matter when others can sit here and give the Devs info that will not improve the game. And why? 

Cause I want to work with the Devs to make the game better not whine cause everything isn't given to me on a gold platter.

[Jarriaga]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Stardust-Rebel said:

I hope you like farming toroids, kid. 

Jokes on you! I already have a stockpile of Toroids I got from killing the Profit Taker and Exploiter Orbs for their cosmetics! Which I never got!

[CorerMaximus]

Can we get a tutorial on how to play Railjack in-game? Having players tell others who are new to the gamemode to go read patchnotes or watch twenty minute long videos on YouTube is terrible design.

[mikakor]

1 minute ago, IgnisDraconis4316 said:

Because unlike players seem to think the DEVs are not idiots.

hahaha.... there's definitely things in the game that would prove this wrong. the entirety of Railjack coming way too soon being one of the biggest.

or also "lets nerf end game gears because we want trash arcanes to be used more":

[Zezaroth]

Impact's current effect of just staggering is already bad, making it harder to aim for head or other weakspots. I'd recommend changing it to be a flinch with subsequent stun. On Impact proc an enemy will flinch thereby exposing it's weakpoints, followed by a stun. Each of these "actions" will last for half the duration of base impact proc duration, stacking impact procs will increase the stun period.

Impact could potentionally open enemies up to finishers but this might make it a tad bit too OP

[ArcusVeles]

I think you flipped Impact and Blast there.  Let Impact lower enemy accuracy, and Blast knock enemies down and ragdoll them cause the Lifted status.

[Gailus]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

-snip

So you actually just described what I was trying to say with much more thorough and thought out wording. You and I agree with each other.

[IgnisDraconis4316]

1 minute ago, mikakor said:

hahaha.... there's definitely things in the game that would prove this wrong. the entirety of Railjack coming way too soon being one of the biggest.

or also "lets nerf end game gears because we want trash arcanes to be used more":

1) There is no end game in Warframe..... yet. So end game gear what a joke.

2) If they didn't release something the majority of the community would have rioted. Also there is more to gaming as a job then you can comprehend. I have seen it and you have more then your playerbase pushing results. (cough EA cough shareholders cough). 

3) And what is the use of having anything in game if no one uses it? If your smarter then tell me that. Catchmoon was the only secondary used for the most part and they nerfed it. Lets see who else does that. EVERY GAME DEVELOPER IN THE WORLD. Games have DIED for one thing being overpowered when there is many options. I have lived through 50 of my favorite games dying because of that one flaw. 

So before you call the Devs Idiots or stupid maybe look at yourself. They are trying their best but what can you do when half of the community will hate you for a change and the rest will enjoy the change. As Ashisogi Tenno says, "Put down your damn pitchfork and try it before you knock it." Not everything is gonna please everyone and the world is filled with games if these changes are gonna make the game unplayable for you. For the rest of us we will enjoy the change.

[devildevil21]

So lets see, a weapon that never had self damage like staticor is now getting stagger on self hits (which is very common considering the huge AoE of staticor), and to top it off every AoE weapon is getting a 90% dmg radius falloff which will mean you need to be more accurate, which in other words means less AoE more single target damages, and this without any dmg buff to the weapons that are getting the dmg radius falloff (beware that a radius dmg falloff implies a NERF if nothing else is added to the weapon)....

 

Nice way to kill a secondary weapon. Guess i'm swapping to other weapons then, since AoE weapons are being nerfed. Self-dmg weapons got a "buff" by no longer being able to kill ourselves, but a nerf in radius, while some other weapons downright got a nerf in radius "just cause" and no buff whatsoever to compensate. Lets just say those AoE weapons aren't the best in killing single target enemies, and nerfing the one thing they're good at which is killing lots of enemies at the same time, albeit taking more hits than a normal single target weapon, is a downright nerf.

 

PS: It'll be fun to stagger myself to hell and back with staticor by "being innacurate" with a weapon that has a radius the size of the sun with charged shots.

[AreeSoothsayer]

RAGDOLL

No no NO NO NOOOOOO!

Do not add ragdoll on double impact. That screws up aiming. My Impact Nukor would throw enemies around instead of keeping them in place to slowly die. Can't aim for heads when bodies flying everywhere. 

Lightning turning into blast knockdown?! NO NONONONO!

We have BLAST for crying out loud. We DO NOT need duplicated effects. Just cause chain stun to have larger radius on repeated procs while the stun is currently in effect,

[ArsonFire51]

I feel Freams with no shield should get a significant armor increase because they don't have shield gating. More over,  I feel impact status effects should cause and enemy to become more acceptable critical damage; because impact is a force that crushes and can cause significant damage to objects. Either that or impact crushes armor and disrupts shield. I mean your being hit with blunt force.  You can keep the knockdown and sending them flying into objects, but knocking down enemy or sending them into objects cause them to take significant increased damage and take longer to recover or stand up. 

You can also make it to wear impact status effects dealing significant increased damage per impact status effects applied. 

[Example] The first hit dealing 200 damage and inflicts a impact status effects. Because of impact status effects, the second hit deal 1.5 times more damage, so 300. If the second hit inflicted another impact status effects for a total of 2 impact status effects on the same target, then the third hit deals 2 times the damage of the second hit, for a total of 600 damage. 

Because this is blunt force.  We can still keep the ragdoll effects, just make it worth the plays effects. Meaning enemy's take significant increases damage when slammed into the ground or into objects and walls. Because right now impact is almost useless and the status is annoying. 

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

The most glaring issues to me are to do with four particular status effects at this point.

#1:  Impact.  It already stinks, ragdoll would just make it so much worse, and AoE ragdoll is just....

Suggestion:  Turn it into a finisher opener, or do something like Harrow's Comdemmn, where it makes enemies expose their heads, or have it turn into a sleep effect, any of these things would be much better.

#2:  Magnetic:  No one uses it, and it's not because of the magnitude of what it does, but because what it does is totally irrelevant to most players.  Toxin damage, even without procs, ignores shields, and toxin can be added to any weapon.  Gas procs are even worse than toxin in this regard.  I get that corpus robotics are toxin and/or gas resistant, but not nearly enough so to make magnetic worth it.  Either you need to make shields a legit tanking stat every bit as strong as conjunctive armor + health, or magnetic needs a completely different sort of proc, that has nothing to do with shields.

#3:  Puncture:  No one cares.  Cold procs will reduce enemy damage output by 70% effectively, while making them easier to hit.  Heat procs reduce enemy damage output by 100%, an so on and so forth.  Flat damage reduction just straight up doesn't matter unless we're talking about something like the Eidolons where stacking multiple different types of reductions might actually matter, or the harder forms of CC statuses and abilities don't apply to certain types of enemies.

#4:  Corrosive/Viral:  I understand that Corrosive is being reduced in efficacy in preparation for it perhaps applying to things like Eidolons, Orbs, Wolf, Liches, and so on, but people with intuition for the math are just looking back and forth between corrosive and viral and saying "For everything without shields I'm just going to use Viral procs with slash/toxin/gas, or heat".  Corrosive is irrelevant when even fully stacked it's going to increase our damage output by the same or less than Viral procs.  The only time corrosive will matter in the new paradigm is with enemies that are actually tanky enough, and also immune to slash procs.  Viral/Slash just completely removes corrosive from being useful.

[(PSN)Kaleidos_Joker]

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Magus Lockdown

On Rank 5: On Void Dash:

Drop a mine that tethers up to 10 enemies in 15m. After 4s it explodes dealing 60% of their Health as Puncture Damage.

Since Puncture damage now has a negative to Enemy damage and Viral does damage to enemy Health shouldn't this read "After 4s it explodes dealing 60% of their Health as Viral Damage"?

There's no point in negating enemy damage as the tether already does this.

[Dusteon]

Commenting on the status changes. I feel like some of them completely miss the mark.

Of note especially are Puncture, Impact, Cold, and Blast, which seem entirely useless with the added benefit that Blast misses out on the dual CO thing it had going for it before. In depth below:

Puncture: shooting an enemy to make them deal less damage is straight up bad. Nobody wants this instead of shooting an enemy and that enemy dying, because dead enemies can't deal damage. It's a status nobody ever wants or cares for outside of status immune armored boss killing (because Puncture has +25% damage then).

Impact: Impact's currently bad. Making it ragdoll enemies around makes it worse because outside of throwing an enemy off a cliff and into a killbox, ragdolling provides no benefit to killing the enemy. Unless this comes with some physics based % max hp damage it will remain bad.

Cold: Shooting an enemy to make them deal less damage and move slower is bad. This is a repeat of Puncture (spoiler: same with Blast), but if you shoot an enemy ideally your shots contribute to the enemy dying. For bonus points, Cold is just a straight up better Puncture/Blast because Cold effectively reduces enemy damage and movement speed by 70%, instead of only their damage by 75%. It's still not good though.

Blast: See Puncture. Shooting enemies to not kill them is bad. It also loses the ability to double buff CO. 

 

Finally, I want to comment on the self damage stuff. Frankly, it's extremely worrying because quite a lot of self damage weapons weren't good to begin with. Gaining the ability to fire the Kulstar in the same area code as my Warframe is nice, but making the already terrible gun basically incapable of precise hits deal no damage is not a worthwhile trade. Same with things like the Angstrum, or base variants of the Tonkor/Ogris/Penta, or the Zarr, etc. -90% damage seems a tad bit extreme to start with.

[Skaleek]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Kaleidos_Joker said:

Since Puncture damage now has a negative to Enemy damage and Viral does damage to enemy Health shouldn't this read "After 4s it explodes dealing 60% of their Health as Viral Damage"?

There's no point in negating enemy damage as the tether already does this.

There's really no point to the puncture proc in general.

[mikakor]

9 minutes ago, IgnisDraconis4316 said:

1) There is no end game in Warframe..... yet. So end game gear what a joke.

2) If they didn't release something the majority of the community would have rioted. Also there is more to gaming as a job then you can comprehend. I have seen it and you have more then your playerbase pushing results. (cough EA cough shareholders cough). 

3) And what is the use of having anything in game if no one uses it? If your smarter then tell me that. Catchmoon was the only secondary used for the most part and they nerfed it. Lets see who else does that. EVERY GAME DEVELOPER IN THE WORLD. Games have DIED for one thing being overpowered when there is many options. I have lived through 50 of my favorite games dying because of that one flaw. 

So before you call the Devs Idiots or stupid maybe look at yourself. They are trying their best but what can you do when half of the community will hate you for a change and the rest will enjoy the change. As Ashisogi Tenno says, "Put down your damn pitchfork and try it before you knock it." Not everything is gonna please everyone and the world is filled with games if these changes are gonna make the game unplayable for you. For the rest of us we will enjoy the change.

no. there's nothing to test. they nerf the arcanes that people use. but WHY do they nerf it? because the others aren't used enough to their taste. why aren't they used more? because no one will use arcanes heat resistance proc. you don't need to be a game dev to know that. but i guess you need a brain to understand it, apparently. thought it was clear enough. i'm sitll mad over catchmoon, but there was other, just as decent, options. so it wasn't much of a problem. beside grace / energize / guardian, and the occasion aegis /  weapon arcanes of fire rate and C. Chance, what other arcanes can be used across the game? none. you don't fix a game by breaking it to pieces until everything is mediocre. tell me, what arcanes will the player base use that is useful, if they these arcanes that i've said were gone?

Hi Itzal Blink, replaced by a joke of a first ability. dare telling me this isn't stupid. it's a copy paste of Valkyr's, which still isn't used either.

[Skaleek]

3 minutes ago, mikakor said:

Hi Itzal Blink, replaced by a joke of a first ability. dare telling me this isn't stupid. it's a copy paste of Valkyr's, which still isn't used either.

Yeah this one really pissed me off. They knew what they were doing. They have the usage metrics of ripline. They freakin know they are putting a crappy ability in. Steve even gave the lip service that they would monitor it and adjust as needed. Such BS.

Now you've gone and reminded me how bad some of DE's changes can be.

[anfuerudo]

1 минуту назад, mikakor сказал:

but WHY do they nerf it?

*cough* Riven "rebalances" to "bring to front unused and forgotten weapons"... *cough, wheeze, cough*

Because DE plays "no fun allowed" police. Everything else is just a bonus.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)ahmed_09716 said:

Nidus already have 400 armor

Nidus is newer than the basic versions of the frames in question.  He was born after a particular armor change that reduced the armor effectiveness of certain frames, while not buffing their armor numbers at all.  Frames like Valkyr and Excalibur actually got bonus armor with that change, but most of the casters --Saryn not included-- got left out of those armor buffs, so these are mostly just their long-awaited levelings.  Well, and Hydroid got some bonus armor, but I'm not going to begrudge him, he's not very popular and every little bit helps.