Scarlet Spear: 1-Week Later Top Items

[KingTheDragon]

These are nice changes and all but... how will it work with the 100/100 murex cap. I've seen flotillas cap out in an hour. This was before you even had the rare and legendary arcanes. It would be nice if you could at least keep doing ground missions after you hit the 100/100 cap. Otherwise, most ground squads will only be able to do 2 or maybe 3 full ground missions or risk getting into an empty flotilla...

Has there been any changes regarding the missions availability after you reach the mark?

[KuroB]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Second: Ground Assault and Murex Raid Scoring will be increased - which means Scarlet Credit earning has been increased!

Before: Ground Assault missions started at 5 Points per Kill Code, reaching a possible 2295 points by round 17.
After: Ground Assault missions started at 10 Points per Kill Code, reaching a possible 4104 points by round 17!

Before: Murex Raids started at 10 Points per Kill Code, reaching a possible 1875 by Murex 5.
After: Murex Raids now start at 15 Points per Kill Code, reaching a possible 3888 by Murex 5!
 

These ground numbers seem very much wrong... Why are you lying to us? Is this the "doing better" you mentioned?

If you actually did what you said the reward would be twice the base number or 4590 not the 4104 you show here.

Ground Squads got their points increased by 100% but the total payout is significantly below 100% increased. In comparison the increase for RJ for which the payout increased 50% has the total increased by over 100%?

I am not sure in which world you guys live but thats not how math works without other changes to the ground calculations you "forget" to mention.

[Reifnir]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Before: Murex Raids started at 10 Points per Kill Code, reaching a possible 1875 by Murex 5.
After: Murex Raids now start at 15 Points per Kill Code, reaching a possible 3888 by Murex 5!

Do we get a retroactive compensation for the credits already earned at what apparently is a half rate? 

[LilPisces]

seeing how people freak out about time vs reward, so.. let's do a comparison.

You need to do 2x17 Ground (which take let's say 30mins per round), so 1hr a day for a total of 10000 (bonus) + 2*4104 = 18208 Scarlet Credits.
A legendary Arcane cost 4k each - 84000 for a maxed.
84000/18208 = about 5 days, each day just play Scarlet Spear for an hour, for a maxed legendary arcane of your choice.

Against Eidolon. Let's say you did a 4x3 per night per day irl. A night last 50mins, so almost same playtime.
If RNG bless you and you get Legendary Arcane for every Hydro cap, you get 20 Legendary Arcane for 5 days, which is not of your choice and also not maxed if all are the same arcane.
Chance of that happen is 0.05²⁰ = 9.54*10^-25% too.

Oh and you have 28 days for Scarlet Spear - 5 Legendary Arcane maxed just for an hour a day and get The Ballroom Sim, Ceti Lacera and Basmu and still have 14624 spare for anything else you want.

[jerrysimon]

1小时前 , Cyloss 说:

84000 Points for a Max arcane?... REALLY???

17 rounds of Ground Assault = 4k cred in ~30min = 1 Legendary Arcane of YOUR own choice

Eidolon Hunt = 6 or 7 rotations each night (~1 hour) = ~20 random (kinda) Arcanes but NO guaranteed.

Think about it and you'll realize that it's a good deal

[Krehlmar]

14 minutes ago, Elyann said:

I believe you must be out of your mind , operator .

I know it might seem like lunacy wanting to play the game, but hear me out!

As I was sleeping my way through my sixth murex run of the day, a sudden jolt of lightning woke me from my stupor and I realized that clicking tactical10 teleport 5 times per mission was just to much APM for me. 

As a casual, I thought long and hard on how I could remedy this and as such I departed the voyage of solo-running murex. Suddenly, being ravished by the hardships of solitude I was inclined, nay not inclined but rather FORCED to use my index-finger to press my mouse-key a SIXTH time! It was like that scene in Forrest Gump, when he starts running and drops the shackles. That was I, I was fettered but now I am free. My finger, almost as if moving by its own, moved again, and again. As sweat poured from my brow I saw my APM increase doublefold, tripple. Before I knew it I had amassed over 15 actions per minute. As my body battled the intense physical stress of this duress I howled in victory as I finally managed to do the 5th murex after standing still with limbo for 3 minutes. 

 

DE whispered me ingame to congratulate me, sending me a prime-access pack of two syndanas and a kat (valued at 6.4 billion dollars), the entire Relay was raving at the achievement as the counter ticked to 5/100 with 11 minutes left, and Freddie Mercury arose from his grave and started singing "We are the champions" as a grineer ship clipped through the relay and pushed us all out of bounds. 

 

I will admit, I too was a nonbeliever. I too thought I was happier at 5apm, doing 1 murex per run for a grand total of 90 creds. 

 

But if you dare to dream, to do your best and to give it your all, you too can do ONE full run of 5murex or 17ground per relay and earn over 14k creds or 1/6th of a Legendary R5. 

 

Or we could always just pray to the golden bull that they'll send us all R5 energize in the mail, as well as at least three legendary cores for all the time we've wasted playing the actual game. 

[kyori]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is not intended to change the way Stasis interacts with other enemy factions.

I can already see bugs making stasis having problem with other factions.

Also, stasis diminish returns on each individual sentients right? because each individual sentient adapting for themselves(meaning diminish return only starts with each individual sentients and not from the very 1st sentient). If this is made for the overall sentient faction then it doesn't make sense but only to show a deliberate nerf, which is not nice.

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Additionally, we wanted to provide notice that we are tweaking the way Limbo’s Stasis works with Sentients to account for the numerous reports we’ve seen on how much the event is trivialized by this power.
Limbo’s Stasis duration now has diminishing returns on Sentients and Amalgams when the power is used repeatedly. This choice was made for 2 main reasons:

1) Limbo’s Stasis usage makes the gameplay of the Scarlet Spear far too trivial.

2) Sentients by design have Adaptation - and the diminishing returns on recasting adheres to the adaptive nature of the enemy. 

This is not intended to change the way Stasis interacts with other enemy factions.

Diminishing return effects currently used in the game go too far. 90% duration reduction means that many abilities don't even last past their own casting animation. Please seriously consider raising the floor of diminished returns to something more sane, like 25% (cap at 75% duration reduction instead of 90%). On bosses with gating mechanics, there is often no way to avoid the fight being prolonged until diminished returns are in full force.

That aside, you need to be very wary about actually making this specific Limbo change for several reasons:

1. Enemies at the edge of Cataclysm will constantly dip in and out of the Rift state (and therefore Stasis) as the bubble shrinks. This must not trigger the diminishing return or it will make Stasis effectively not work at all.
2. Cataclysm easily catches Sentients which are more or less inaccessible to the player (e.g. flying below platforms), this will mean some enemies caught in the Cataclysm will have unexpectedly high resistance to Stasis by the time players actually combat them. Sentients, especially those in the Murex maps, are some of the units most prone to this complication.
3. Recasting stasis cannot be specified to certain targets - the Limbo is going to have to let everything take a swing in order to freeze that one lingering enemy, which presumably will add a stack of the diminishing return onto everything else that got an early cancel out of the ability. That is a bad game experience.

 

Furthermore, you need to think harder about what solutions a solo player can actually bring to bear. For example, it's possible for Frost to protect indefinitely against non-diminishing enemies such as the Grineer defense of ground missions, barring the Elite Shield lancers that like to occasionally bypass a globe and instant-kill the link, but due to diminishing returns, the same cannot be said of Sentients. When the solo player is already forced to wait 4 times longer than a full squad while defending, this goes past the skill/strategy threshold and becomes a loss by poor design. The cheesiest strategies available to all are sometimes made necessary when you can bring only one ability set.

[Pendragon1951]

So once again because of poor game design and testing another in game mechanic gets nerfed and the game community pays the price. I think it would have been better to leave things as is, accept responsibility for the mistake and use that knowledge for the next event. Even if a in game mechanic trivializes a game mode, that's on you not the community and they should not be the ones to pay the price.

[GKP_light]

Could you make that we can continue to kill Condrix in endless, but make that the gain stop to increase at 15 ?

(so with a good team, we could kill 15 more, with a good reward, but not a too high reward)

[DrBorris]

TL;DR: These changes will only exacerbate issues with the event.

Score changes:

• While the TOTAL mission payout changes seem good, this does not address that players who either don't have time to complete a full rotation or players who are not geared to do a full rotation are giving pitifully low rewards. Scaling rewards are great, but that doesn't mean that short missions should be a waste of time. The final rotation should be giving a MAXIMUM of double points the first rotation gave. 
• In addition, this does nothing to encourage players to see a Flotilla to completion. If anything, this is going to encourage players to leave Flotillas after a single run.

Limbo changes:

• While I am not against the changes on paper, it feels like this is the wrong way to go about making the defense portion more active. If you make an objective where killing is completely unnecessary, you shouldn't be surprised when players find ways to avoid killing.
• If only there was a mission type that had a defense objective that had players keep an active playstyle and allowed for both CC and DPS abilities to have their role in completion. cough*Disruption

Other major issues that are not addressed:

• The three hour timer is redundant: If the timer is there to make sure people try to finish a Flotilla as fast as possible, then it is redundent due to the victory bonus doing effectively the same thing. All this timer serves to do is make for an awkward lull between rotations where players don't join Flotillas because...
  • They won't be able to finish a full rotation, which given the above is a waste of time
  • The Flotilla is not nearly close enough to completion to get the bonus
• The Railjack mission has no Railjack gameplay

[MetalGrayFox]

6 minutes ago, KingTheDragon said:

It would be nice if you could at least keep doing ground missions after you hit the 100/100 cap

you can, just go to another flotilla

[Senguash]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Second: Ground Assault and Murex Raid Scoring will be increased - which means Scarlet Credit earning has been increased!

Before: Ground Assault missions started at 5 Points per Kill Code, reaching a possible 2295 points by round 17.
After: Ground Assault missions started at 10 Points per Kill Code, reaching a possible 4104 points by round 17!

Why do this to people who have been grinding their butts off for a week already?

There seems to be no discernible reason other than to continue the strange trend of encouraging players to wait a week or two with playing new content.

I much preffered when additional credits were given out as compensation for issues early on, since that actually rewarded engaging with the new content instead of indirectly punishing it. 

Also the limit is still 5k per relay for bonus?

Are we meant to do like 6 relays per rotation now?

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

1) Limbo’s Stasis usage makes the gameplay of the Scarlet Spear far too trivial.

Yes, good to hear you've realized and are adressing the issue.

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is not intended to change the way Stasis interacts with other enemy factions.

Quite the missed opportunity. You're just gonna have to deal with him again for a different faction later. 

[8faiNt]

1 minute ago, Senguash said:

Quite the missed opportunity. You're just gonna have to deal with him again for a different faction later. 

someone likes limbo very much

[destraudo]

20 minutes ago, Elyann said:

I can and should. 
That's what the event is here for.

No, they were not fine before cause the operation's prices compared to the time and reward ratio were cancer...and the eidolons are gated behind Cetus night which as you know is not always available when you have free time at disposal. People work , study and have lives , they can't be asked and expected to grind the same two missions for 10 hours a day every day for the next 2-3 weeks. Even with the ongoing quarantine. 
Stop justifying this bullS#&$.

10 hours a day for 2-3 weeks?  you can do 3 space in an hour in your sleep. netting the bones of 12 k credits plus a 10 k bonus for 100 murex. so 20 k for an hour or 5 legendary arcanes in an hour. Which is comparable to the absolute height of speed for an elite eidolon tricap team. Except that tricap team does not get to pick their arcanes. So if you want a specific legendary there is a literally no comparison it is orders of magnitude faster to get legendary arcanes by this method than any other. So in 5 hours with abundant change you can max out an arcane energise. you would have to literally do hundreds of tricaps to achieve the same result. so with an hour a day you can max out 4-5 legendary arcanes over course of event.

I am sorry that that is not enough for you.  i really am, my heart bleeds for you as someone who dropped 1500 plat on energizes a few months ago because there was no universe i could put that much time into hunts on.  Im only going to be playing an hour or so a day but i plan to max out many rare and maybe 1-2 legendary arcanes. 

[aspeedninja]

Please dont nerf limbo to the ground that's the works think you could do...

[Pendragon1951]

Just to be clear i'm not a Limbo main at all, I just feel that these changes are a knee jerk move because they are the ones who made the mistake.

[Legowerewolf]

Can you undo the "fix" to Venari so she can actually heal defensive targets? 

[RelentlessMutation]

Thanks for taking away my only method to solo this terrible event.

[Radiofloyd]

I think you should've handled khora in a similar way. Maybe, for example, have venari heal defense targets for low enough values to keep the stakes up, while still helping to alleviate? Or you could have diminishing returns where the defense target gains less each time it's healed... Point is that there are a lot of better ways to nerf khora than to just remove a niche she had. Other than that and viral being overly powerful, I think we're getting to a point where the game (though much easier) is at a pretty reasonable (maybe more so than before) balance.

[VaykorValkyr]

1) Limbo’s Stasis usage makes the gameplay of the Scarlet Spear far too trivial.

That is hilarious. you guys were playing that way in the livestream the other day right? what a way to rely on cheese, DE

[RAZORLIGHT]

Thanks for this grindfest of a event, even after those changes you would have to grind ~30 minutes (if you are good) to get ONE Legendary Arcane.

Remember you nerfed our arcanes and now we need a whooping 21 of them to make them max rank.

If everyone with a maxed arcane would stil have a maxed arcane after the update, i wouldnt mind about the grind in the event but you punished the players who farmed them for hours because YOU changed something.

 

Next time when Steve in a devstream says, "the next event wont be that grindy".... you know what i mean.

The economy of the event is flawed, instead of using bonuses nobody knows how they work (after you fixed them, explained them and they are still meh) you could have just increased the credit income and lower shop prices, the whole drive 100 Murex away for a bonus is flawed flawed flawed.

 

 

This game goes downhill, for too long now and i even thought you (DE) would improve because of the great revised update, guess i was wrong.

Anyway, this post will probably get deleted, but i dont care anymore, Warframe feels like work for too long now and there are other great games which actually deserve my time and money.

Tell me when you finally change your way to develop WF.

[DebrisFlow]

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Additionally, we wanted to provide notice that we are tweaking the way Limbo’s Stasis works with Sentients to account for the numerous reports we’ve seen on how much the event is trivialized by this power.

The event is trivialized by the trivial nature of the mission itself. After 7 years you should stop pretending that a mobile defense is a compelling design.

Regarding the arcane price, 4000 credits for a legendary is a fair price only considering the proposed increase in credit gain. I hope that all of us that playtested the first week of this event get their earned credits recounted accordingly.

[GodOfMisfortune]

Can you remove the 100 Murex cap please? Some people aren't able to achieve 5000 points before all the Murex are gone, which means they need to go to another Flotilla. This could bug your progress on the first Flotilla so you don't get the rewards from it.

[Grav_Starstrider]

18 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

snip

When DE stops releasing content so butchered that they need to make a formal apology statement to us for releasing half-baked updates, and are either making changes in such a hasty manner that they "forget" that what they changed was a fully intended feature (which they could have double-checked on her Ability page prior to changing), or are outright insulting us by calling blatant nerfs to existing, previously non-contentious content, exploits or "fixes" to be patched out to enforce more grind... When they stop doing that, we might be a bit more civil. @SenorClipClop I reviewed and counted the top reddit posts in the Warframe sub the day after Scarlet Spear dropped. Fully over half of the top 10 posts, through the top 50 posts, were ludicrously upvoted posts detailing all of the ways Scarlet Spear was released in an outright insultingly buggy and unfair manner, at a ludicrously grindy balance. They under-tuned credit gain by at least around half of what it should have been giving us as far as credits goes, according to their upcoming tweak. As others have said, Console is going to have a full 5 weeks of comparatively un-buggy Scarlet Spear, while half of us have been avoiding SS because it released in a nigh-unplayable state. It's still unplayable for some people, they keep getting the no-kill-codes on the Space Squads. We're fully within our rights, as consumers who keep their business and livelihoods afloat, to tell them when they've gone too far. And this? Nerfing Khora's Venari, and Limbo, when they still haven't fixed the absolute JOKE that Gas, Magnetic, and Puncture damages still are? Warframe Revised was going a really good direction. They still needed to take it further though. Not pump out a barely-tested bugfest of a time-limited event, with credit gain at less than half of what it should have been, just because "You're all at home anyways uwu".