Upcoming Protea Changes!

[Shemarria]

Strangely enough; even without her buffing, she is a solid support and area denial frame.
I have not ONCE gotten ganked playing her even against level 80 enemies, as long as there is at least ONE other heavy hitter frame along with her (Mag, Ember, etc).
She is fun.
She is not however a front-line solo play assault Warframe.  Nor should she be played as such.

 

Kudos to the DE staff for creating this lovely and enjoyable 'frame... though I really wish you'd put at least ONE of her alternate helmets into the Nightwave credit offerings.  That scarf thing at the back of her head?  -ennnnnh-  Not so lovely 🤪

Edited June 23, 2020 by Shemarria

[BitesZaDusto]

Honestly it feels like some of the people who are complaining here didn't even play her for more than 10 minutes. It's like so many people here had this idea of what they wanted her to be, and now that she doesn't fit the mold you get upset. 

Don't get me wrong, she definitely needs tuning and some changes, but most of the complaints here seem to be from people who want to completely change her gameplay, which currently works something like: set up a base with her 3 and 1, then press 4 and run around while spamming her turrets until you are yanked to where you started and get the energy you spent during her 4 back. I was honestly a little disappointed when I first used her abilities but her playstyle grew on me and I really like using her.

DE are not gonna change her gameplay. People don't want to play her like she is now because of what they thought she should be, and DE are gonna buff her again and again and still most people won't play her, until some youtuber make a video about her being broken op and then she'll get nerfed to the ground. Most of the criticism here is totally fair but some people want her to be different frame and it's not gonna happen.

[Zulunko]

1 hour ago, BitesZaDusto said:

Honestly it feels like some of the people who are complaining here didn't even play her for more than 10 minutes. It's like so many people here had this idea of what they wanted her to be, and now that she doesn't fit the mold you get upset. 

Agreed.

When I first played Protea, I was like, "oh, turrets, that's going to be really cool!" My gut reaction upon seeing that they last 2 seconds was, "who the hell designed the frame like this?" However, she was still fun enough for me to want to forma her, and by the end of my 6th forma I was actually glad that she wasn't designed the way I was expecting because she ends up playing really well with the skills she has.

I'm really looking forward to these changes because it'll help some of her pain points (50% longer turrets that ramp up their multiplier twice as fast will be awesome for my playstyle), but the dramatic calls for reworks just don't make sense. She's fun to play, she plays unlike any other frame we have, and she brings some interesting utility. The answer to "I don't like this frame because its playstyle is too different" shouldn't be "let's make it work like every other frame", it should instead be, "there are 43 warframes and they're all designed to play differently so find one that suits you better".

[quxier]

1 hour ago, BitesZaDusto said:

It's like so many people here had this idea of what they wanted her to be, and now that she doesn't fit the mold you get upset. 

 

52 minutes ago, Zulunko said:

Agreed.

I wonder what do you think she is suppose to be.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Melanholic7 said:

well, she will be max tier sorties lvl frame.If we will speak about efficient kills/etc. BUT. But. She is kinda fun ALREADY, just cause her playstyle. Yes, low dmg. But even tho, i liked to play her after release. So, after buffs she wont be blablabla strong frame, but she will be even more fun to play 🙂 I dunno, she really feels like a breath of fresh air 😄 She is not one button=kill all, she isnt even "one button press" at all. :3 God praise Protea! 😮 

If a frame is fun but lacks performance then they just need their numbers boosted.

Its like Baruuk. He spends a year being hated by the community because he’s too passive and doesn’t deal enough damage. DE makes Serene Storm the strongest exalted melee weapon and suddenly everybody loves him. It’s because his gameplay was set up to reward the pacifism abilities with major damage. The problem was the damage was garbage so there was no reward.

But then you go frames like Revenant who aren’t fun to play and perform terribly. Those are the frames that need to be taken back to the drawing board and leave nothing left if the original.

[Oreades]

Momentary happiness, instantly dashed. 

The grenade changes don't address the casting time or the forced hop animation that can cause you to totally miss your target depending on map geometry. 

The changes to the turret do nothing to substantively change the issue of it being an awkward ability that needs to be spammed. Just make it something that detaches from Protea permanently until recalled or maybe like the Sentinel version of Venari.  Have a fixed damage unless you "overdrive" it at which point it starts accumulating multipliers until the buff wears off but the turret does not despawn unless you manually recall it or go way out of range. 

The only ability that she has that seems worthwhile to me even with these proposed changes is the Dispensary and again only because the ammo counts towards Archguns

Edited June 23, 2020 by Oreades

[ebrl]

4 hours ago, dwqrf said:

One can hope they are reviewing the pre-feedback of the incoming changes to make em better...

DE aren't really masters of balance but if they are taking this thread into consideration for adjustments then it's worse than I thought.

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, Oreades said:

The changes to the turret do nothing to substantively change the issue of it being an awkward ability that needs to be spammed.

This is the part I dont get when people say it. What frames do we have that dont need to spam their abilities if they are heavy burst abilities (which the turrets are)?

Ember, Vauban, Khora, Banshee, Nezha, Gara and Gauss are all frames with a need for spamming, either to deal or buff damage. Then we have Nidus that spams to gather enemies up or build stacks. Currently the turrets (a 50 energy skill) rivals Ember's #4 skill in damage, you also need to spam it less. The damage will be further increased with the changes and you'll be able to wait 2.5 seconds longer with a balanced build before recasting. This will result in extremely good self targetting burst damage.

 

[Leqesai]

7 hours ago, Ailia_Grimm said:

I did, you just didn't find it

Lets agree to disagree and move on.

[BitesZaDusto]

57 minutes ago, quxier said:

 

I wonder what do you think she is suppose to be.

It's not about what I think. My point was that most of the criticism here is not about her kit being bad, but about it being different than anticipated, especially the turrets.

I just want people to understand that her 2 is a spam burst dps ability that is supposed to work with her 4's "spam as much abilities as possible". DE might make an augment for her turret to be long duration sometime in the future, but they're not gonna change the base ability. It would be so much more productive if people gave feedback on how to improve her current gameplay instead of asking DE to change the entire frame, which is not going to happen.

[Melanholic7]

sad part is her skills are tied to stationary gameplay. She is just much weaker in running missions like exterminate. Cause she cant ult, cant use dispenser. And all abilities tied to her ult. so... thats my only problem. Cause ult FORCES you to go back. I wish we could manualy choose to rewind or not. And if not - we get like 50% of energy back from used skills (not 100% like when u choose to rewind)

Edited June 23, 2020 by Melanholic7

[Melanholic7]

15 минут назад, BitesZaDusto сказал:

It's not about what I think. My point was that most of the criticism here is not about her kit being bad, but about it being different than anticipated, especially the turrets.

I just want people to understand that her 2 is a spam burst dps ability that is supposed to work with her 4's "spam as much abilities as possible". DE might make an augment for her turret to be long duration sometime in the future, but they're not gonna change the base ability. It would be so much more productive if people gave feedback on how to improve her current gameplay instead of asking DE to change the entire frame, which is not going to happen.

her turret is best part of her kit :3 Its like Ember fireballs but stored in machine gun, without need to aim urself and fire them. So freaking nice to use. 

[Dargadon]

Very big IMO incoming:

* Shield Sattelites should exist notably longer than Grenades. 

* I`d change turret to lose damage windup over time (cooling down) but turret itself toggleable (like Chroma's 4), with constant Energy upkeep or Energy cost for every shot. So yes, it will be "permanent", but will require some work to keep it up.

* Dispenser is fine, but yet again - why not make it permanent (like Wisp motes), but rework it hold on itself 1 HP orb, 1 EN orb and 1 ammo box NOT separate for every player, but shared (i.e. if someone pick it up - it will also dissappear for others and they will be forced to wait for new ones to spawn). Power for potency of pickups, Range for additional placements, Duration for pickup regeneration.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Dargadon
Typos and additions

[normalclothes]

20 minutes ago, Melanholic7 said:

sad part is her skills are tied to stationary gameplay. She is just much weaker in running missions like exterminate. Cause she cant ult, cant use dispenser. And all abilities tied to her ult. so... thats my only problem. Cause ult FORCES you to go back. I wish we could manualy choose to rewind or not. And if not - we get like 50% of energy back from used skills (not 100% like when u choose to rewind)

Actually, you can. Just hold 4 to cancel

[Tsoe]

come on what about: chroma spectral scream and excal radial javelin

 

been more than 7 days if i remember well

 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Tsoe

[Charenton]

31 minutes ago, Melanholic7 said:

sad part is her skills are tied to stationary gameplay. She is just much weaker in running missions like exterminate. Cause she cant ult, cant use dispenser. And all abilities tied to her ult. so... thats my only problem. Cause ult FORCES you to go back. I wish we could manualy choose to rewind or not. And if not - we get like 50% of energy back from used skills (not 100% like when u choose to rewind)

you can spoilermode right as the rewind starts, wait 2 secs, then hit 5. and you won't have gone backwards.  makes the ult less annoying, if still flawed

[RecordTheFox]

As unlikely as de is to listen to this, given track record, ba-dum tss:

After playing nothing but protea for the past 3 days I've come up with one change, that i personally would think might be helpful towards protea being more dynamic (and usable in missions that aren't defense) would be the ability to trigger the rewind on command rather than cancel it, preferably with the ability to stop it from fully rewinding too.

The way rewind currently works is you set the anchor and pray to whatever that you'll be in a good spot to benefit from the explosion when it happens which reduces a tactical ability to a "leme use this to spam 2" ability, however, if instead of holding down 4 to cancel we can hold down 4 to trigger the rewind (and detonation) early that would make the ability more interesting, and if we can also let go of 4 to stop the rewind it will give us the ability to choose how far back we go (and how much energy we gain back), this would create an interesting trade-off in things like capture-exterminate etc, where we can simply use the ability to complete the objective without it getting in the way as much, while still being fairly balanced as it won't really refund any spent resources, or lost health if we let go of it immediately after detonating.

TL;DR:
Instead of canceling the ult, make holding 4 trigger it early (along side the explosion), and letting go of it would stop the rewind early.

[Zulunko]

30 minutes ago, RecordTheFox said:

After playing nothing but protea for the past 3 days I've come up with one change, that i personally would think might be helpful towards protea being more dynamic (and usable in missions that aren't defense) would be the ability to trigger the rewind on command rather than cancel it, preferably with the ability to stop it from fully rewinding too.

I might be misreading you here (and if you know about this I apologize), but you can trigger the rewind on command simply by hitting 4 (rather than holding 4). Holding 4 cancels it, pressing 4 triggers it. It doesn't let you stop it midway, but aside from that it does what you want.

[Melanholic7]

38 минут назад, Zulunko сказал:

I might be misreading you here (and if you know about this I apologize), but you can trigger the rewind on command simply by hitting 4 (rather than holding 4). Holding 4 cancels it, pressing 4 triggers it. It doesn't let you stop it midway, but aside from that it does what you want.

im guessing he means Tracer skill. When u press button and then time goes back. 

[Melanholic7]

1 час назад, normalclothes сказал:

Actually, you can. Just hold 4 to cancel

yeah, but thats like 100% similar to not using it at all. Even more - wasting 150 energy for nothing. And i mean when u force stop rewind - give half of energy back from skills u were using in this rewind. Then it will be a reason to use ult and spam skills and stop rewinding and run with ur squad forward. 

[Velaethia]

12 hours ago, quxier said:

If it follows you around you won't have energy after you end 4th.

How so? It follows you. So it'll reset locations with you when you rewind?? Also as I, and many others said. The rewinding location is more annoying than not 90% of the time.

[Velaethia]

10 hours ago, ebrl said:

Up to about 30 seconds per cast (if fully modded for duration, the only stat that influences duality in any way) of triple weapon damage aimbot would make Equinox clones a strong contender for highest damage output in the game. The problem is the AI that makes Equinox/Wukong clones wander around randomly and lose line of fire/shoot at walls all the time, not the duration.

 

Personally I'd prefer it have triple base duration but 1/3rd the damage. Because theme wise I want it up all the time. And having to have a max duration build to feel comfortable doing that is a pain. Cause I have to keep track of that as well as my mend/main and everything.  Honestly makes no sense that the duration isn't identical to the metamorphosis buff duration. 

[Velaethia]

6 hours ago, Melanholic7 said:

well, she will be max tier sorties lvl frame.If we will speak about efficient kills/etc. BUT. But. She is kinda fun ALREADY, just cause her playstyle. Yes, low dmg. But even tho, i liked to play her after release. So, after buffs she wont be blablabla strong frame, but she will be even more fun to play 🙂 I dunno, she really feels like a breath of fresh air 😄 She is not one button=kill all, she isnt even "one button press" at all. :3 God praise Protea! 😮 

I actually love that she's spammy. Not enough spammy frames. 

[Velaethia]

4 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

But then you go frames like Revenant who aren’t fun to play and perform terribly. Those are the frames that need to be taken back to the drawing board and leave nothing left if the original.

Uh are you ok? He is extremely strong and fun. Maybe just not for you. His ult is one of the strongest ults because it adapts. Plus he is like aoe god with the exploding minions. Immune to damage with his 2 key up. 3 key is kinda lackluster more than not but isn't bad. 

[Velaethia]

1 hour ago, RecordTheFox said:

Instead of canceling the ult, make holding 4 trigger it early (along side the explosion), and letting go of it would stop the rewind early.

Tapping it again already ends it early with the implosion and rewinding.