Myscho Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Covid happend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, markus230 said: YES! Exactly. That's why dissecting what the sentence says LITERALLY, is pointless. Because that's not how speech works. We "know" that isn't what Steve meant, even though LITERALLY, that's what he has said. Assumption that Steve didn't mean shipping CTD if it shows up during the stream, is a very, very, very safe assumption, but it's still an assumption. Human speech involves a lot of assumptions, that's why it's not surprising that people are also assuming that Steve meant we are getting an update at Tennocon, or very close to it. It's one way of interpreting his words. Nonsense. Try it again. 17 minutes ago, markus230 said: Just because you and I have the assumption that Steve didn't mean a release at Tennocon, first of all, doesn't make us right, and also as we can see under the video, tons of people assumed something else, we don't know if they are wrong, because Steve's statement was vague. We two got one interpretation, hundreds of people in YT comment section got another one. So perhaps it's not so simple. Being vague doesn't mean that it said something that wasn't said. So they're factually wrong. It's as simple as that. 17 minutes ago, markus230 said: You, yourself are also holding assumptions, the same one that I do. In this situation, assuming nothing, would be staying with "We don't know what Steve meant". Saying that update isn't dropping at Tennocon, or that "Ship what we show" only applies to content and not the release date, is already an assumption. No. Its not. Because a release date is "when". And the only "when" was "not months and months away" which is absolutely not the same as "Immediately". Is it possible that it will be immediate? Yes. Was that what he said? No. Again, simple. 17 minutes ago, markus230 said: It's hard to not have any assumptions, even if you don't express your assumption or push it on others as a fact, you likely have one, because we are humans and all of us have our own version of "what I think he meant" about everything we've heard in our lives. Having one is not an issue, multiple people have said "he said x, I believe that to mean y" and that's fine. Presenting that as "he said x" would be wrong. Presenting it as "he said x but that actually means y which is totally different from what he said but idc it's what he said" is also wrong. 17 minutes ago, markus230 said: Being unable to predict the future doesn't make you a liar. Also, discussing what's going to happen is one discussion (requiring a set of assumptions for each side btw), is a different discussion than what Steve meant (and that discussion requires assumptions as well) Take a good look at the posts people make. If something showed in an early demo doesn't appear, some people will rage. Hell, we have at least one person going off the rails who has made statements to the effect that "if it has bugs when shown and we don't get those bugs that makes him a liar". As for the last part, no. They're the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 3 hours ago, markus230 said: All that matters is, "We ship what we show" quote is now being passed around, and it was to be expected. And many players take it as promise of releasing the update right after Tennocon, and it's understandable that some players took it this way. And now we've got big Warframe Youtubers saying that an update is launching during Tennocon. That's on Steve, that's how talking to public works, you have to make sure what you say can't be misinterpreted. "We ship what we show" could have meant both, that the update will be ready to go during Tennocon, or that DE will simply show us something that will definetly make it into the game, instead of demos that look nothing like end product This is exactly what's happening. People who watch YouTubers are taking THEIR word as gospel truth and coming to forums to preemptively complain and hold DE to that YouTubers expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus230 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: Being vague doesn't mean that it said something that wasn't said. So they're factually wrong. It's as simple as that. The only person that knows that for sure is Steve. Noone else can determine who is wrong as who is right. You can be vague and have something specific in mind, assuming people will understand exactly what you mean. I mean, that's what riddles are. (and no, I'm not saying that Steve's statement is some kind of 4d chess riddle). Point is, only Steve knows what he meant. 2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: And the only "when" was "not months and months away" That's false, we don't even know if Steve meant to contrast the time it takes to release Tennocon content. It could still be months and months away, but what we will get is going to be the way we saw on the Stream, as opposed to the Liches and Railjack that are still not what we seen at Tennocon. If Steve didn't contrast two thing with one, we wouldn't have this issue. 2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: As for the last part, no. They're the same thing. If on August 1st, there is a blackout in Canada. Does that change the fact that Steve meant for Tennocon to be on August 1st? No. In this situation what Steve meant in the video is one thing, and what ended up happening is another. Can we agree, that all of this could have been avoided if Steve gave us more information? No Man's Sky already taught us why you don't give vague information. Some people heard what Steve said, and it seemed obvious to them that we are getting an Update at Tennocon. Now that people are hyped for an update that likely won't release on August 1st, it's already too late to fix it. Even if DE puts out a statement with correction, not everyone with that expectation will see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Elvenbane Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 3 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said: When have you EVER in any of the past Tennocons heard Steve say or relate via media, prior to, the phrase “We plan to ship what we show”...especially with releasing a statement that The New War and Duviri are, again, not ready? We are hearing it now because it represents a change in policy to stop showing demo stuff with no eta like past RJ/Kingpin presentations... Could it ship during Tennocon? Sure, but I don't take "ship what we show" as a release commitment; just means design/coding is pretty much locked in and implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said: We are hearing it now because it represents a change in policy to stop showing demo stuff with no eta like past RJ/Kingpin presentations... Could it ship during Tennocon? Sure, but I don't take "ship what we show" as a release commitment; just means design/coding is pretty much locked in and implemented. It's a change in policy to stop showing flashy, scripted demonstrations put together just for Tennocon and which are not actually in a shippable state at all. That's what the past Railjack/Kingpin presentations were: they were nowhere close to being shippable. They were just scripted, basically proofs-of-concept. What DE is doing now is showing something that is actually functional and will ship soon after Tennocon (probably late August or early September is my guess). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, markus230 said: The only person that knows that for sure is Steve. Noone else can determine who is wrong as who is right. You can be vague and have something specific in mind, assuming people will understand exactly what you mean. I mean, that's what riddles are. (and no, I'm not saying that Steve's statement is some kind of 4d chess riddle). Point is, only Steve knows what he meant Newp, because at the end of the day what's in your head and what was said are two completely different things. If it weren't, then I would have far, far more warning points on the forum. Since we must judge on what was said, everything else is irrelevant. 13 minutes ago, markus230 said: That's false, we don't even know if Steve meant to contrast the time it takes to release Tennocon content. It could still be months and months away, but what we will get is going to be the way we saw on the Stream, as opposed to the Liches and Railjack that are still not what we seen at Tennocon. Again, that's the only "when" relating to the release of the content mentioned in the video. Find another and we'll discuss it. Until then, the statement stands. 13 minutes ago, markus230 said: If Steve didn't contrast two thing with one, we wouldn't have this issue. We always have this issue because people seldom pay attention to what was said, hype themselves off of whatever nonsense popped into their heads at the time, and repeat the nonsense others have said as fact. 13 minutes ago, markus230 said: If on August 1st, there is a blackout in Canada. Does that change the fact that Steve meant for Tennocon to be on August 1st? No. And if the blackout prevents the start of the conference, do you think that there won't be people raging regardless of the cause? If so you are woefully out of touch with reality. 13 minutes ago, markus230 said: Can we agree, that all of this could have been avoided if Steve gave us more information? No Man's Sky already taught us why you don't give vague information. Some people heard what Steve said, and it seemed obvious to them that we are getting an Update at Tennocon. Now that people are hyped for an update that likely won't release on August 1st, it's already too late to fix it. Even if DE puts out a statement with correction, not everyone with that expectation will see it. No, we certainly can't. Because as I have already pointed out, nobody can predict the future, and any deviation from the hard information given, would open them up for attack by the same people who will attack them for not delivering on an unspecified day that they picked randomly because they're too dense to pay attention to what was said and make stuff up in their heads regardless of how unrealistic it may be. Again this is why "Soon" is, and has to be, a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said: Again, strawman. Just that you keep going is so silly. No because it is an absurd strawman and nothing else. Instead of being a______ about it why not explain it and inform other users. See the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus230 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: No, we certainly can't. So I guess DE should keep on doing that. That definitely won't create one S#&$ storm after another. PR is not about what is technically true and what was meant. PR is about not pissing people off, one of the ways of doing that, is not giving people the opportunity to speculate on something just to be let down. Angry mob is an angry mob regardless if it is in the right or wrong. And no, more information doesn't open you up to attack, at worst, it opens you up to some whining for a few days. Being vague or showing off stuff that you are not sure you can pull off yet sets unrealistic expectations, weather you like it or not. That's why you should only share concrete information. You can keep telling yourself that people will be angry at poor, poor DE no matter what, but that's obviously not true as there are other Developers that communicate well with their community and receive almost nothing but praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, markus230 said: So I guess DE should keep on doing that. Finally, something viable. Good job. Let's stop at that point because given what I've seen so far I'm pretty sure that it's just going to go downhill from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markus230 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said: Finally, something viable. That's the fastest way of being fired from PR. Creating outrage against the company you are working for and the being smug about it. But hey, at least watching it all with a pack of popcorn will be entertaining. Shame that Warframe keeps slipping in Steam charts since 2018, but hey that probably player base is at fault once again /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, markus230 said: Can we agree, that all of this could have been avoided if Steve gave us more information? No Man's Sky already taught us why you don't give vague information. Some people heard what Steve said, and it seemed obvious to them that we are getting an Update at Tennocon. Now that people are hyped for an update that likely won't release on August 1st, it's already too late to fix it. Even if DE puts out a statement with correction, not everyone with that expectation will see it. Steve really had no reason to give more info since it was pretty damn clear what he said. Some people just fail at understanding the context. Had he used wording like "in connection to Tennocon" or something similar it would be understandable, but he has never impled anything regarding time except that this year's tennocon will showcase what will be released and not something months and months down the line that is just a WIP at the showcase and bound to be changed alot. So it will likely be similar to the SS reveal in their devstream, either releasing during tennocon if ready enough or a few weeks down the line incase it is bug filled and poorly balanced, while retaining everything that was planned and showed for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)guzmantt1977 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, markus230 said: That's the fastest way of being fired from PR. Creating outrage against the company you are working for and the being smug about it. But hey, at least watching it all with a pack of popcorn will be entertaining. Shame that Warframe keeps slipping in Steam charts since 2018, but hey that probably player base is at fault once again /s Yup. Downhill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reican Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 it's 2020. World's #*!%ed this year. I'd postpone it too in case it somehow got full bugstorm when released and ended up creating a bunch of AI's hellbent on ending humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DoctorWho_90250 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 8 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said: This is exactly what's happening. People who watch YouTubers are taking THEIR word as gospel truth and coming to forums to preemptively complain and hold DE to that YouTubers expectations. See. I knew this would be fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyra Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 What do people mean when they say "its 2020". Did i miss smth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Yggranya Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 21 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said: This is exactly what's happening. People who watch YouTubers are taking THEIR word as gospel truth and coming to forums to preemptively complain and hold DE to that YouTubers expectations. Kinda like most people watching (S H I T)streamers. No thoughts, just recite what someone else told you to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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