Heart of Deimos: Hotfix 29.0.6

[Old_Fogie]

So, after 6 hot fixes, still a host of issues with HoD. Definitely not making me all warm and fuzzy inside about starting any of the new content. My boys are pretty much of the same opinion. The crux of it is, that we still need to do the quest in order to complete the star chart (again) in order to do Arbies. So, yeah, that'll be fun..

On the plus side, at least the flowers are getting some much needed love and attention.. Because, you know, priorities.

 

[ZloGlaZ]

3 hours ago, Trevorreg said:

isolation vaults have been bugged for me since the fix, can't get past T2. anyone else?

 

After opening the T2 vault door, get resources from containers and to finish it just go back to the T1 vault (the mission's marker points to it) then the stage will be finished. The same for the T3.

[TheNineBreaker]

Gotta love the vaults. Trying to go to T3 sends me to the T2 vault, we fight though all of that nonsense and have to leave to start the T3. Get there and for whatever reason I can't void dash and blasting him with my amp didn't heal Loid so they died and we didn't get to open the vault. Thanks DE.

[Marinara19]

Please for the love of God Please....

Mag's magnetize hold ability is some bull crap.

I don't know if it's intentional but regular bubble is half the duration of the new bubble, it honestly would make more sense to be that other way around... Or how about just have them the same duration?

I mean the hold skill is just a rip off of nyx's ult.

 

Last but not least can you make it so it's either like Khors where holding the button switches the cast typing with a visual hint or maybe just make me have to hold the button longer than .321 seconds to activate it. 

So many times I'm wasting energy because of stupid crap like enemy walk out of my LOS and now I'm stuck casting magnetize the way I don't want to use it. To have it like this makes no sense especially because it's one of those skills that require a target in the first place. Like bruh

Mag's my favorite frame, I love the change but why is it implemented in such a crap way?

[Virmare]

I just realized that I have to randomly put abilities on my warframe in order to level up my "Nerfminth", what kind of logic did you use to create this system?
You don't want to use Helminth / warframes abilities? Well, we won't let you raise Helminth, so put skills in Warframes even without wanting them or you don't level it up.
Seriously what kind of logic is this? You don't even let me throw the materials away in peace xDD

So the people who used platinum to raise their Helminth, what they did was put warframes and then randomly put warframe abilities on a warframe so they could keep uploading it.
Did you really think it was a good system?

I still think that you have taken the easy and effortless path.

Time to be constructive !!

I would have preferred the system to take a few more months and be something like that.

Helminth has his original abilities and then passive abilities of 10% to 25% in one of the attributes (shield, armor, life, energy, efficiency, strength, etc ...) logically you can only 1 of them OR one of the new abilities .

What is done with the warframe that already exist? well ... each Warframe would get an ability related to the Warframe type, and by the way you get Warframes that have bad abilities to use that new ability related to it, (in the worst case it could always use an ability from another warframe) .

By having 43 new abilities the thing would be more fun to experiment and it would not happen exactly that there are only a few useful abilities (which will be nerfed to infinity).

And I say again that I understand that it would take more time, but it is clear that getting things done in a hurry has never gone well for you (we can take a look at the previous updates.

[Dallyoop]

Now if only they would fix the stupid animal hunts so the animals wouldn't spawn into the terrain. That would be nice. 

 

Or better yet, getting rid of animal hunts. They are the worst. 

[ButcherL]

LIKE 

[Mephane]

2 hours ago, Virmare said:

I just realized that I have to randomly put abilities on my warframe in order to level up my "Nerfminth", what kind of logic did you use to create this system?

People did the math, after rank 4 you can apparently level up solely by subsuming Warframes, no need to inject random abilities to grind for XP:

 

[Carmelitha]

Il y a 11 heures, EmberStar a dit :

You have to feed resources to Helminth to build up "secretions."

Ah right, my bad, thought i missed something and that you had to use credits on top of insane amount of ressources ( for those who he isn't craving ) for leveling.

But anyway i'm personally not in a hurry to try this system even if It may propose some interesting combo, i guess the system will see some more fixes and nerfs by the time i decide to install it in my orbiter. 

 

[Brunhylde]

I did another solo run of Isolation Vaults.. Here's what happened:

I finished T1 vault and looted the vault.

Then, I finished T2 vault and opened the vault only to be sent back to T1 vault to loot it again.

Then, I finished T3 vault and opened the vault only to be sent back to T1 vault to loot it AGAIN. 

This made me miss the Vome wyrm bonus..

Please apply a fix to this, DE..

[Axel0689]

Thanks for the hotfix! It was needed and I don't think it will be the last. However the Scintillant and Thamica I expect a slight change in probability. Important and too rare (indeed very rare) resources. 

[Virmare]

hace 3 horas, Mephane dijo:

People did the math, after rank 4 you can apparently level up solely by subsuming Warframes, no need to inject random abilities to grind for XP:

I hope it's that way, I've had to put a skill to level up my Nerfminth (Larva for Nyx for the great memes), but I'm glad it's like that, Thank you very much. :3

-------

I think it was because of having an APP in Japanese open, but I don't understand the reason for writing it in Spanish.

By the way it was fun discovering that xDDD

[lhardy]

In isolation vaults, if host leave while doing the last stage at 3/4; the game get bugged.

[PeekAboo_Prime]

Still I ask you to have a closer look on scintillant drops - it makes no sense playing tier 1 and 2 missions if promised droprewards don't seem to exist. Since the release I managed to get 1 of it and I am not sure where it has dropped. Something is wrong with it. 

Greetz

[ShikiRen]

1 minute ago, Flawless_Toad said:

Still I ask you to have a closer look on scintillant drops - it makes no sense playing tier 1 and 2 missions if promised droprewards don't seem to exist. Since the release I managed to get 1 of it and I am not sure where it has dropped. Something is wrong with it. 

Greetz

Necramechs drop it, and it sometimes floats around in a glowing ball in the vaults. HOWEVER it is floating up rather high and vaccum does not work on it, so you might completely miss it sometimes. Necramech drops is the best chance I think. Though vaults are bugged as of this hotfix, so running them rn is also not really a good idea.... Wish we could trade it, I got like 15 of the stuff.

[Mephane]

1 hour ago, Virmare said:

I hope it's that way, I've had to put a skill to level up my Nerfminth (Larva for Nyx for the great memes), but I'm glad it's like that, Thank you very much. :3

Why the hell is that quote of mine in Spanish/Portuguese/whatever?

[Graavarg]

10 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

Full stop, you are wrong about my motivations and projecting.

Let's also talk about your complete diversion into pay to win.  I commented that it's functionally just a means to have payers progress, and eat through their inventories.  So we are clear, now that it's an MR 8 requirement, and 50 platinum is needed, the cost to rush all frames is 50*44=2200 platinum.  It's less than you get with a single prime pack.  The only gate therefore is the materials.  Let's review the old DE statements, where they claimed the game was not pay to win but pay to skip the grind...  Is that even a thing?  Well, at this point no.  The only wall in Helminth now is whether you can afford all the materials losing 90% of their value (30% max to 3% always).  

Regarding it being high level....DE changed that.  MR 8 is 10% of content.  MR 16 was 30% of content (prior to Deimos with both).  This means the system is not about being high level.  They caved on paying to rush stuff, so it also isn't about the rewards.  At this point the helminth is just about finding the 1% of all builds that broker a new meta. 

Stop with the Zymos.  Really, if you read what I said you'd understand that it is a niche weapon.  I don't know what you're reading into it, so let me define the words.  A niche weapon is something that has a limited number of uses and is not good in general. 

I apologize for reaching the wrong assumption of your motivations. The point was not to call you out, but to underline that if we approach Warframe in general and the Deimos grind in particular in fundamentally different ways there is no real possibility of reaching a common understanding. And since I both calculate and feel that the Deimos grind is quite ok from my viewpoint (again, with the exception of those bloody Necramech mods), which could be summed up as "getting everything done in a few weeks or so", I assumed your goal was to get your hands on everything as fast as possible. Not an uncommon approach to Warframe (been there myself, most of the time), but one that often leads to frustration and occasionally to "Warframe burnout".

Raising P2W is not a diversion, it is an approach Warframe/DE has never embraced (luckily). But without revenue there will be no more Warframe, so it is a very fine line to walk. Which DE has managed that pretty well, actually. Concerning Helminth the line seems currently to be drawn at "speeding up the processing for money" while "keeping the pace cooled down with a need of farmable resources". Or in other words, you can pay to not have to sit and wait while the Helminth digests a warframe, but you cannot outright buy your way through the Helminth system, you need to actually play the game and farm the resources. My personal opinion is that allowing for speeding up the subsumation process was a mistake, even if it is totally in line with speeding up foundry production. This is because I think Warframe (and the players) could benefit (greatly) from a slightly slower tempo. As in "hmm, ok, the Helminth is now chewing on a warframe, lets see what I could do while I wait". A goal-oriented rush is fine at times, but for such a huge, complex, rich sandbox as Warframe it really makes very little sense. If all you are doing is getting your meta together and speeding to MR29 you will lose out on 95% of the game. Mostly without even noticing it, being blinded by the "goals".

And yeah, you are right about the Helminth not being "high level". Except maybe from a secretion-wall aspect, and then not so much "high level" as "thousands of hours". There are players that could go through a complete subsumation (all warframes in the game) without farming a single resource, just using what they already have stacked up. They sort of benefit, and such players tend to be "high level". In my experience such players, while occasionally finding it fun to rush a new warframe or weapon, play the game from a pretty chill manner. So I would be surprised if many of them would quickly plat their way to "complete subsumation". And not from a lack of plat, either.

About the Zymos. You of course have the right to define "niche" any way you like, but you are still wrong. Warframe is a game, and it is about having fun (anyone wasting their time playing a game that isn't fun might be in need of professional help). You obviously sort weapons into categories based on some sort of meta-aspect, "niche" weapons thus being a group that are, in one way or another, less effective at killing enemies. Maybe you also use the term "MR fodder". However, it is just as valid to sort weapons according to a factor of "fun to use", or even according to "uniqueness". Or according to how they look, or how they fit your ultra-fashionframe. Meta is an interesting and even rewarding approach, but it is also very limiting, and even ridiculous (just try to show me a weapon that I can't handle any game content with). If you look at weapons from a "fun and unique" aspect, niche weapons instead suddenly are all those "just another crit-based killing machine"-weapons (boring, boring, boring... 😁).  And from that viewpoint, Zymos is simply great. You can throw it on the fodder heap, but I just love it. 

[TurianGarrus]

What about Autoexposure. It basically cannot be forced on. People get migraines and other over-time-generated issues because of it. Also, When firing a high-output gun like the Opticor or Stahlta's alt.fire the brightness spike  forces autoexposure to darken the screen, almosr blinding me temporarily!

Please, DE, For the sake of God himself, would You please add that toggle back in?

[Rare-devil]

reduce the helminth costs, this is insane 

[ATLRS]

Fix the ISO please 

Why u asking as to return to ISO 1 after finishing ISO 2 and ISO 3 

 

WTF ?!!?!!!

[XenosParadox]

Could you please allow us access to our enemy and loot radars when in our Necramechs if our Companion has it equipped? Benefitting from Fetch and Vacuum would also be very nice as it feels blinding and stifling to not know where anything is in our Mechs. 

 

Also, please consider allowing us to use our Mechs in any mission type. Thank you.

[PeekAboo_Prime]

Zitat

Also, please consider allowing us to use our Mechs in any mission type. Thank you.

They were talking about this in their last "home stream" I was watching - if I did not get it totally wrong they already plan to let you play the mech also in other missions, whatever this finally means.

Oh  - and the music theme at the login screen is great!

[PyroMail.Com]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb TheBlackShawarma:

No he is not.

He did, and tell you what: He is still gaining affinity, went on a few bountys and my boy got his fair share of it. Rank 15 at the moment.

Speaking of Necramechs, after my Mech gets destroyed, calling a new one spawns a Mech which some parts missing. I mean, don't get me wrong, Mecha-Corn is ready to cleanse all evil but I don't think this is a feature.

[master_of_destiny]

1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

I apologize for reaching the wrong assumption of your motivations. The point was not to call you out, but to underline that if we approach Warframe in general and the Deimos grind in particular in fundamentally different ways there is no real possibility of reaching a common understanding. And since I both calculate and feel that the Deimos grind is quite ok from my viewpoint (again, with the exception of those bloody Necramech mods), which could be summed up as "getting everything done in a few weeks or so", I assumed your goal was to get your hands on everything as fast as possible. Not an uncommon approach to Warframe (been there myself, most of the time), but one that often leads to frustration and occasionally to "Warframe burnout".

Raising P2W is not a diversion, it is an approach Warframe/DE has never embraced (luckily). But without revenue there will be no more Warframe, so it is a very fine line to walk. Which DE has managed that pretty well, actually. Concerning Helminth the line seems currently to be drawn at "speeding up the processing for money" while "keeping the pace cooled down with a need of farmable resources". Or in other words, you can pay to not have to sit and wait while the Helminth digests a warframe, but you cannot outright buy your way through the Helminth system, you need to actually play the game and farm the resources. My personal opinion is that allowing for speeding up the subsumation process was a mistake, even if it is totally in line with speeding up foundry production. This is because I think Warframe (and the players) could benefit (greatly) from a slightly slower tempo. As in "hmm, ok, the Helminth is now chewing on a warframe, lets see what I could do while I wait". A goal-oriented rush is fine at times, but for such a huge, complex, rich sandbox as Warframe it really makes very little sense. If all you are doing is getting your meta together and speeding to MR29 you will lose out on 95% of the game. Mostly without even noticing it, being blinded by the "goals".

And yeah, you are right about the Helminth not being "high level". Except maybe from a secretion-wall aspect, and then not so much "high level" as "thousands of hours". There are players that could go through a complete subsumation (all warframes in the game) without farming a single resource, just using what they already have stacked up. They sort of benefit, and such players tend to be "high level". In my experience such players, while occasionally finding it fun to rush a new warframe or weapon, play the game from a pretty chill manner. So I would be surprised if many of them would quickly plat their way to "complete subsumation". And not from a lack of plat, either.

About the Zymos. You of course have the right to define "niche" any way you like, but you are still wrong. Warframe is a game, and it is about having fun (anyone wasting their time playing a game that isn't fun might be in need of professional help). You obviously sort weapons into categories based on some sort of meta-aspect, "niche" weapons thus being a group that are, in one way or another, less effective at killing enemies. Maybe you also use the term "MR fodder". However, it is just as valid to sort weapons according to a factor of "fun to use", or even according to "uniqueness". Or according to how they look, or how they fit your ultra-fashionframe. Meta is an interesting and even rewarding approach, but it is also very limiting, and even ridiculous (just try to show me a weapon that I can't handle any game content with). If you look at weapons from a "fun and unique" aspect, niche weapons instead suddenly are all those "just another crit-based killing machine"-weapons (boring, boring, boring... 😁).  And from that viewpoint, Zymos is simply great. You can throw it on the fodder heap, but I just love it. 

Glad we can come together.  Regarding the whole progression thing, I find that people often lack the nuance to differentiate between the extremes of "I want it now" and "Grind is alright."  I'm personally of the mind that when content is released that it's absolutely fine if there's an associated grind, but only if that grind is rewarded in the end.

Case in point, Eidolon battles were a very interesting thing, for the first 20 or so.  If I could have done 30 and had some decent arcanes to work with (let's call it at about 25-30% of the available pool) then the thing would have been a slog at 2-3 cycles per night period, but it would have been a grind well worth doing.  The poison in the current Eidolon system is a 5% drop rate of the best arcanes from only the captured final boss, and the subsequent need to get that drop 21 times.  Effectively, for 50% of people to get the drop to its maximum you need in excess of 1400 captures.  That's taking content and stretching out the grind so far as to make it a problem.  Eidolons good, arcanes good, but months worth of RNG grind and the literal hundreds of drops that will be useless are frustration.

In the Deimos update the frustration point is that for all the steps forward (custom companions, resource towers, and shrinking the open world to name some), there are great leaps backward (poor economy, resources that are literally grind extenders, and more low rate RNG drops).  It's personally like DE didn't develop the last two open worlds beyond the copy pasted side quests.  The rewards for everything are lower, there is no reason to want to do anything but the bare minimum (perfect capture mean nothing), and the whole structure of the bounty giver not allowing you to rank up is adding another few steps to an already complicated system.  Konzu and Eudico aren't really special, but the model of seeing them both to rank up and get standing for bounties was KISS.  Now it's go to one for bounties and rank-up, the other for standing conversion and purchase of concentrated standing crystals.  Why?

 

Regarding progression...let's talk about what we know.  First off, most of the player base the last time we say figures from DE was somewhere between MR 10 and 14.  That's about 25% of the content in the game covered (30%=MR 16, 10%=MR 8).  I use this because we cannot get numbers, but it's pretty reasonable to assume that is still largely accurate.  As such, the goal for people does not seem to be about progression, but unlocking things that feel good to use and sticking with them.  That's pretty reasonable from where I sit.  Case in point, 4 Braton variants exist, and after the first one why would you grind the rest out unless you liked it?  Well, us completionist freaks do it, but the bulk of players are more casual so they don't.

My point here is that for a very limited amount of the population does the grind matter.  If DE continues reducing the rewards for said grind, that population will also vanish.  I'm looking at you standing rework.  At which point the only question remaining will be for the casual player what has to be done and what can be avoided.  

I'm going to jump to the Helminth now, because it's pointing to a dark path.  It is pay to win.  Let me explain here.  Resources are required, but they provide variable returns.  This means that you can get between 3% and 30% materials.  At rank 8 you can feed sentient resources to the thing, to go from 3% to 15% without the wait.  As such, let's have an example.  Bile costs 3 Argon crystals.  Right now the worst case scenario is to be 3% conversion for 3 crystals.  If I pay for a resource booster I get 2 per drop minimum.  Now, I can blitz about 5 capture missions and have 60 argon (30 drops) pretty easily assuming I cataclysm bomb the world.  I get basically 60% bile for those 60 argon, and can subsume.  I want the power, so can spend 50 platinum now to unlock the power, and start another frame.  It too requires Bile....so lather rinse and repeat.  Shortly, 2000ish platinum lighter I've identified specific resources in most categories I only need a couple of drops on.  I can blaze through the system, and if I have sentient resources that 3% can go up to 15% for 1/5th the resource input.  Ouch.

I do hear the counter argument that a small subset of people unlocked rank 10 basically day one.  They did so by literally draining years of harvested resources, caring not that 3% conversions were being done when they had literal thousands of those resource quantities.  What they did not have was a way to drop 40 days of grind....and they now do.  Warframe has previously walked the payment line well....and I rewarded them by buying prime access.  It's me as a player giving DE money because I think their game is worth it.  The problem is that the numbers indicate less and less people are doing this.  The response is not to reach out and understand, it's to increase the grind and make things like resource boosters needed.  It's to obfuscate true costs by having intermediary resources with only one way to be obtained.  It's to add in layered grinds and options to buy your way out of those grinds.  Looking at you Liches and Railjack avionics packs.  I personally believe the older DE, who cared about being fair and thus deserved my money, is now the DE trying to get my money by making the grind unbearable unless I pay up.  That's...let's call it depressing.

 

Regarding the Zymos, you still don't get it.  Meta, fun, and garbage are all terms with no meaning.  Meta is actually a term that is referring to an item being disproportionately powerful and thus an optimized solution to a situation.  Fun is a subjective measure of utility for an individual.  Garbage is a dismissive term for something that is believed to be well below the power curve and thus not useful.

The Zymos is a niche weapon.  It may or may not be fun.  It definitely is not dramatically above the power curve, as its damage is balanced out with qualifiers to access that damage and hard physical limitations.  People who call it garbage are stating that those qualifications are impossible to deal with, given it's competition being just as capable without those draw-backs.

Now, let me explain why I call this a niche weapon.  If you get a headshot there's a lot of power.  This requires being close, because the gun is not hugely accurate.  It requires a lot of reloading, as the ammo pool is small.  It does only marginal damage without that headshot, so there's a hard wall that is hit on potential without the arbitrary condition being met.  For all of this being met, what you get is grimly satisfying and decently powerful.  As such, it's got a niche use for builds which can get consistent headshots and manage that ammo pool.

What you seem to be missing is that this doesn't mean it's bad, not fun, or even not insanely powerful.  Your pleasure in using the gun is fantastic, but it doesn't make it good or bad.  You want an example that is relevant?  How many people run around with the Catchmoon kitgun now?  I do.  I had to mod it for projectile flight, add a pexilus and more forma.  Is it meta....no.  Is it a weapon where I find the costs are non-damaging to my play, yes.  It's a niche weapon that I like, similar to the niche weapon you like with the Zymos.  You're welcome to like it, but the whole inclusion of the meta or not conversation is pointless.  Meta is just a way to say unbalanced and above the power curve...and most meta eventually eats a nerf to make it mediocre or worse.  

[TheBlackShawarma]

1 минуту назад, PyroMail.Com сказал:

He did

No. I have 30lvl mech and know what I saying. Mech gains XP only if he was destroyed, if you do not let the mobs kill it, then when you leave the location, it will lose all the accumulated experience after the last destruction.