Lavos idea

[wtflag]

Lavos is an upcoming alchemy-themed Warframe slated for release in 2020.

I think as an alchemy-themed warframe, it should be able to empower it's skills with one-time use concoctions made using common materials found all over the System.

These concoctions can be crafted in special stations (that is unlocked when you master Lavos) similar to Skyrim with various buffs and bonus based on materials use.

Passive: Scanning plants give double materials.

Skill 4 "ultimate" is also a passive. All concoctions also apply to teammates within affinity range. Effect is increased to 2/3/4 times (increased by power strength) and last 2/2.5/3 times as long (increased by duration).

 

[TARINunit9]

Synthula is unpopular enough as an optional thing for Defection missions, I shudder to imagine the backlash if it was required for an actual Frame

[wtflag]

Not required. You can still use the skills unbuffed. It just wouldn't be as effective.

[(PSN)Darmstomp]

Man, when‘s the next Devstream gonna be? Pretty obvious Lavos isn‘t gonna release in October, so that means the other frame isn‘t gonna be out in 2020 which is meh but I‘m more interested in this one anyway. I just wanna see Lavos‘ abilities already.

[Myscho]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Darmstomp said:

Man, when‘s the next Devstream gonna be? Pretty obvious Lavos isn‘t gonna release in October, so that means the other frame isn‘t gonna be out in 2020 which is meh but I‘m more interested in this one anyway. I just wanna see Lavos‘ abilities already.

Dunno, DE already starts hyping update 29.5 with Lavos on Facebook, so there is a chance

[(PSN)Darmstomp]

4 minutes ago, Myscho said:

Dunno, DE already starts hyping update 29.5 with Lavos on Facebook, so there is a chance

That‘s supposed to be the next one right? Idk how they number hotfixes lol 

But unless DE is gonna do a unified release for Lavos‘ update like Heart of Deimos, console is gonna get him like a month later so I guess it doesn‘t really matter. 

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, wtflag said:

Not required. You can still use the skills unbuffed. It just wouldn't be as effective.

99% of the fanbase reads that as "Well yes, but actually no"

[master_of_destiny]

2 hours ago, wtflag said:

Lavos is an upcoming alchemy-themed Warframe slated for release in 2020.

I think as an alchemy-themed warframe, it should be able to empower it's skills with one-time use concoctions made using common materials found all over the System.

These concoctions can be crafted in special stations (that is unlocked when you master Lavos) similar to Skyrim with various buffs and bonus based on materials use.

Passive: Scanning plants give double materials.

Skill 4 "ultimate" is also a passive. All concoctions also apply to teammates within affinity range. Effect is increased to 2/3/4 times (increased by power strength) and last 2/2.5/3 times as long (increased by duration).

 

 

Face palm.

 

Let's look at exactly what you are asking for, because it's infuriating.  It's why we don't have echoes of umbra.  It's fundamentally asking for a whole new economy and an insane complexity to the system.

 

Now, let's talk consumable items giving a temporary buff.  It's a bad idea, but it's bad because all resources drop in different areas.  Let's say you only asked for resources from a single planet for any one given buff.  Fine, does that mean you're only going to do missions on one planet?

With these temporary buffs, what is the duration?  Will it be 24 hours, or will it be a mission?  That duration is going to wildly influence how strong it has to be.  If it takes a mission just to gather the resources for a buff then that buff is going to have to be strong to justify it.  If that's a 24 hour buff, then it's got to be weaker to reflect its duration.  As a side note, this was proposed and denied for railjack, with craftable temporary armor and the like.

Moving bumpily along, what about the influence on the powers?  Will it be something that adds a bit of power?  Will it be like an augment, and change a power?  How is all of this accounted for?  As an aside, this is kind of like Chroma's color changing buff.  The difference there is the color is locked when a mission begins, so there's no need to account for it.

 

So....hopefully you get how this is a bad idea.  I'm going to suggest otherwise, given that this was half baked to begin with.  The whole idea of temporary buffs, like the stims or the antigen, are fundamentally backward.  Both of these things are expensive to craft, offer negligible benefits, and thus are ignored.  It's unreasonable to ask for a buff to a frame whose abilities aren't even listed, with the source being a temporary concoction. 

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

2 hours ago, wtflag said:

Not required. You can still use the skills unbuffed. It just wouldn't be as effective.

Then why bother using a frame that requires you to go out of your way just to buff its abilities? I don't think anyone would like that.

[Nailclipper]

I'm quite surprised/pleased that the devs may took inspiration from Chrono Trigger (Lavos is the final boss). This isn't a community designed frame, right?

[(PSN)robotwars7]

yeah, I'm gonna pass. a frame that needs supplementing like that isn't a very good frame. it's abilities should already involve the theme, so like how Vauban throws grenades, this frame could throw Potions to cast it's abilities. otherwise, I'll need to know more about this frame before judging it beyond it's appearance (looks pretty ugly IMO).

[PsiWarp]

What I'd like to see for Lavos ..

One skill throws flasks, tap/hold for different effects and damage types. One skill makes his serpents lunge and bite enemies, maybe strangle them in place.

Multiple damage types with procs. Gas and Corrosive mainly.

Something to do with transmutation.

[Tesseract7777]

7 hours ago, wtflag said:

Not required. You can still use the skills unbuffed. It just wouldn't be as effective.

As far as minmaxers are concerned they would be "forced" to do this. Others would demand that their favored frames be given something similar. 

[SneakyErvin]

Would make little sense to require materials for skills when everything frame related is more or less materialized and fueled by the void and whatever armaments the frame is equipped with that tap into that void. 

Gara doesnt carry a sack or drag a cart of sand (or glass powder for that matter) with her in order to raise walls or distract enemies with giant mirrors.

I'm all for the alchemist frame consuming stuff to buff itself or throw concoctions at the enemy, but having them as one use things that require mats just has no connection in the game. If this was a profession we could pick for the operator, then sure, but we are talking frames here, walking WMDs created by a very advanced empire at the height of their culture. Frames that already have 3 power sources they use to fuel their void powers, which is either void energy, their "flesh" or their shields.

[Syln]

As long as its 4th is called "Destruction rain from the heavens" i'm fine with anything.

[-Krism-]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Darmstomp said:

Idk how they number hotfixes lol 

Really?

[quxier]

10 hours ago, Myscho said:

11 hours ago, (PS4)Darmstomp said:

 

Dunno, DE already starts hyping update 29.5 with Lavos on Facebook, so there is a chance

They still haven't uploaded Xaku's upgrades' nr. 2.

8 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

Face palm.

 

Let's look at exactly what you are asking for, because it's infuriating.  It's why we don't have echoes of umbra.  It's fundamentally asking for a whole new economy and an insane complexity to the system.

 

Now, let's talk consumable items giving a temporary buff.  It's a bad idea, but it's bad because all resources drop in different areas.  Let's say you only asked for resources from a single planet for any one given buff.  Fine, does that mean you're only going to do missions on one planet?

With these temporary buffs, what is the duration?  Will it be 24 hours, or will it be a mission?  That duration is going to wildly influence how strong it has to be.  If it takes a mission just to gather the resources for a buff then that buff is going to have to be strong to justify it.  If that's a 24 hour buff, then it's got to be weaker to reflect its duration.  As a side note, this was proposed and denied for railjack, with craftable temporary armor and the like.

Moving bumpily along, what about the influence on the powers?  Will it be something that adds a bit of power?  Will it be like an augment, and change a power?  How is all of this accounted for?  As an aside, this is kind of like Chroma's color changing buff.  The difference there is the color is locked when a mission begins, so there's no need to account for it.

 

So....hopefully you get how this is a bad idea.  I'm going to suggest otherwise, given that this was half baked to begin with.  The whole idea of temporary buffs, like the stims or the antigen, are fundamentally backward.  Both of these things are expensive to craft, offer negligible benefits, and thus are ignored.  It's unreasonable to ask for a buff to a frame whose abilities aren't even listed, with the source being a temporary concoction. 

What if you need to build it only once and the new frame would replicate it (by the power of the Void)?
 

If it were simple buffs (e.g. more damage, faster melee attack etc) then it would be just bad. Other frames do it without any preparation.
I think it should augment something. Let's say without anything selected you would be... like the water.
A first ability might be just +N damage.
A second ability might be just -M damage from all enemies.
Let's live 3rd & 4th for now.
So you made a "Heavy gunner" potion. You apply it during mission. Now your stats are (for example):
1st -> (3 * N) damage to a Heavy gunner.
2nd -> - (3 * M) damage from a Heavy gunner.
 

You could make potion for specific enemy (like in the above example) or more general like faction-based.
It would be nice to have some selection during missions (e.g. 2-3). You would have to choice them before a first mission. As they are not "consumables" they don't need to be selected before every mission.
 

12 hours ago, wtflag said:

Passive: Scanning plants give double materials.

What about Open world resources? I think they should get the same treatment.
However I like the idea. Haha. The Lavos + Oxylus' scann matter + Cross-Matrix Widget for 45% of double scan to get enough plants for my Little girl (aka Helminth). Great idea.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

So basically you need to do prep work in order for Lavos to use his abilities and he will have a finite supply in missions.

Yeah, that’s a fast way to make sure nobody plays him.

[TARINunit9]

9 hours ago, Nailclipper said:

I'm quite surprised/pleased that the devs may took inspiration from Chrono Trigger (Lavos is the final boss). This isn't a community designed frame, right?

The name is Chrono Trigger, but does Lavos have anything to do with Alchemy? I thought that was Evermore, not Chrono Trigger

[master_of_destiny]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

...

If it were simple buffs (e.g. more damage, faster melee attack etc) then it would be just bad. Other frames do it without any preparation.
I think it should augment something. Let's say without anything selected you would be... like the water.
A first ability might be just +N damage.
A second ability might be just -M damage from all enemies.
Let's live 3rd & 4th for now.
So you made a "Heavy gunner" potion. You apply it during mission. Now your stats are (for example):
1st -> (3 * N) damage to a Heavy gunner.
2nd -> - (3 * M) damage from a Heavy gunner.
 

You could make potion for specific enemy (like in the above example) or more general like faction-based.
It would be nice to have some selection during missions (e.g. 2-3). You would have to choice them before a first mission. As they are not "consumables" they don't need to be selected before every mission.
....

 

You do realize that what you are asking for is a selective passive, right?  A selective passive requiring resources to determine what you get.

 

Let's look at how passives actually work in game.  What is Trinity's buff (I ask because I had to look it up.  It's 25% faster revives from 50% farther away)?  What good is this in normal gameplay?  Very little.  The range is very low, the extra speed is useless when you've got operator form, and if I had to craft this and apply to get a specific buff for a specific situation I'd simply not care.

Are you asking for the same thing from a new frame?  A frame where the abilities aren't known.  You're asking for an enemy or faction damage buff....when factional damage mods already exist and are insanely powerful.  

This seems really half baked...even more so when we don't know what this frame does.

 

 

Let me offer some interpretations of alchemical processes.  This should give you an idea of how varied such a frame might be.

Transmutation - Turning one thing to another, similar to Atlas's ore gaze.

Chemistry - Status machine, that can buff any type of damage.

Explosives - CC is king if it crowd controls and damages...and without self damage it's functionally consequence free dynamite tossing.

Philosopher's Stone - Immortality.  The Caduceus is the twin snake rod used to show medicine as a short-hand.

 

Now that this is covered, what is Lavos?  Is it a crowd controller?  Is it a DPS?  Is it a buffer?  Could it down a potion as a skill, and transition amongst these roles like Equinox?  Yeah....we don't know.  As such, this is not a useful discussion.  On top of making things costly for no reason, it's groundless speculation.  It's like trying to determine what stats Nezha Prime will have...it's fundamentally useless until we know more.  

[quxier]

23 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

You do realize that what you are asking for is a selective passive, right?  A selective passive requiring resources to determine what you get.

I don't get what's wrong with that?

26 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

Are you asking for the same thing from a new frame?  A frame where the abilities aren't known.  You're asking for an enemy or faction damage buff....when factional damage mods already exist and are insanely powerful.  

+30% is good?

27 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

This seems really half baked...even more so when we don't know what this frame does

That's why we are speculating. I don't think there is any information available. I like the idea of an alchemist and OP's idea of resources changing abilities. I've just explained how resources can be used & how resources changes abilities.
The 2 example abilities were... just examples to show his/her idea and my modification.
 

37 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

Now that this is covered, what is Lavos?  Is it a crowd controller?  Is it a DPS?  Is it a buffer?  Could it down a potion as a skill, and transition amongst these roles like Equinox?  Yeah....we don't know.  As such, this is not a useful discussion.  On top of making things costly for no reason, it's groundless speculation.  It's like trying to determine what stats Nezha Prime will have...it's fundamentally useless until we know more.  

Maybe OP had different intention but I just wanted to say "what if". It's in the Discussion not the Suggestion board after all.

[master_of_destiny]

48 minutes ago, quxier said:

I don't get what's wrong with that?

+30% is good?

That's why we are speculating. I don't think there is any information available. I like the idea of an alchemist and OP's idea of resources changing abilities. I've just explained how resources can be used & how resources changes abilities.
The 2 example abilities were... just examples to show his/her idea and my modification.
 

Maybe OP had different intention but I just wanted to say "what if". It's in the Discussion not the Suggestion board after all.

 

A passive is negligible.  It's something virtually not worth noting...because if it was there'd be an issue with balance.  This is how all passives are structured.  It's why low gravity is a nightmare debuff, but also Zephyr's passive.

 

30% is good because of how damage is applied.  Try running the thing, then come back to the table.  Additionally, do you think they'd offer anything that high as a passive?  That'd be silly.

 

Look at the thread title.  Lavos ideas.  It's not a community frame.  No powers are given.  No stats are given.  No costing, or even location for farming is given.  It's speculating about what the weather is going to be like in Buenos Aires on the 7th Tuesday of 2045.  To be clear, it's speculation and requests based upon nothing.  Imagine if we did this with other frames.  Grendel is announced.  We know that he's capable of eating enemies.  On day one after announcement we ask that he gets a buff that eaten enemies can be consumed and each one works like Atlas's rubble to give him armor.  Now, Grendel comes out and enemies are not eaten.  They're stored and DOT is applied to anything but the one consumed for the buff.  What exactly did asking for an armor buff get us?  

 

What if implies that there's a reasonable basis.  Everything flows from that reasonable basis, and is based upon previous examples or facts.  Now, let's discuss why this is not a what if.  I'm going to just ask you what your assumptions are.  What I know they are not is the frame's base stats, base powers, or the theme.  I can say this because of what I stated before, none of this is available.  "The Alchemist" is not a theme, it's a list of potential themes that DE can build from.  So, speculation based upon literally nothing is as valuable as that which it is based upon.

 

 

Let me be clear here...if we had anything this could be a discussion.  A list of powers, a stat sheet, or even a definition of what variation of alchemy DE was focused on.  Since none of this is provided, there's nothing to speculate on.  That's not my interpretation, it's cold hard reality.  You're welcome to view this otherwise, but I'm not seeing anything to discuss beyond somebody wanting a new system installed without any parameters.  That's not a discussion, it's a wish list for your toy box.  While interesting, it's not valuable as a point of discussion.

Provide a list of buffs.  Provide a duration.  These are thing to have a discussion about, even if the fundamental idea is not related to Lavos.  These could be something similar to the MR 30 daily buffs.  Without something this is just pointless thought exercise about a complete unknown.

[(PSN)Darmstomp]

12 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

 

A passive is negligible.  It's something virtually not worth noting...because if it was there'd be an issue with balance.  This is how all passives are structured.  It's why low gravity is a nightmare debuff, but also Zephyr's passive.

 

30% is good because of how damage is applied.  Try running the thing, then come back to the table.  Additionally, do you think they'd offer anything that high as a passive?  That'd be silly.

 

Look at the thread title.  Lavos ideas.  It's not a community frame.  No powers are given.  No stats are given.  No costing, or even location for farming is given.  It's speculating about what the weather is going to be like in Buenos Aires on the 7th Tuesday of 2045.  To be clear, it's speculation and requests based upon nothing.  Imagine if we did this with other frames.  Grendel is announced.  We know that he's capable of eating enemies.  On day one after announcement we ask that he gets a buff that eaten enemies can be consumed and each one works like Atlas's rubble to give him armor.  Now, Grendel comes out and enemies are not eaten.  They're stored and DOT is applied to anything but the one consumed for the buff.  What exactly did asking for an armor buff get us?  

 

What if implies that there's a reasonable basis.  Everything flows from that reasonable basis, and is based upon previous examples or facts.  Now, let's discuss why this is not a what if.  I'm going to just ask you what your assumptions are.  What I know they are not is the frame's base stats, base powers, or the theme.  I can say this because of what I stated before, none of this is available.  "The Alchemist" is not a theme, it's a list of potential themes that DE can build from.  So, speculation based upon literally nothing is as valuable as that which it is based upon.

 

 

Let me be clear here...if we had anything this could be a discussion.  A list of powers, a stat sheet, or even a definition of what variation of alchemy DE was focused on.  Since none of this is provided, there's nothing to speculate on.  That's not my interpretation, it's cold hard reality.  You're welcome to view this otherwise, but I'm not seeing anything to discuss beyond somebody wanting a new system installed without any parameters.  That's not a discussion, it's a wish list for your toy box.  While interesting, it's not valuable as a point of discussion.

Provide a list of buffs.  Provide a duration.  These are thing to have a discussion about, even if the fundamental idea is not related to Lavos.  These could be something similar to the MR 30 daily buffs.  Without something this is just pointless thought exercise about a complete unknown.

If Lavos truly is "almost ready", then hopefully DE can actually tell us something about him other than he has snakes on his arms, which is something we already #*!%ing knew. 

But the snakes hanging from his arms and the quicksilver in his shoulder flasks are definitely details that weren‘t there when he was first revealed. 

[Nailclipper]

10 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

The name is Chrono Trigger, but does Lavos have anything to do with Alchemy? I thought that was Evermore, not Chrono Trigger

No, it doesn't as far as I can remember. Lavos' final form is humanoid and maybe our upcoming warframe would have something to do with that, or maybe they just have the same name.

[SpiritTeA]

That’s bad idea, we’ve already have one frame that has to collect special resources from PETRIFIED enemies... And this one I see veeeeeery rarely, it’s not bad frame but temporary buffs are things why combat in MMORPG like WoW or Elder Scrolls is garbage