Worthwhile grind, rivens, hypocrisy from today's devstream.

[EdinaMonsoon]

when the locking question was brought up, i initially thought it meant locking all the rivens stats and remain unaffected by riven changes but giving up the option to trade and reroll it again

anyways i'm glad somebody asked them about rewards reflecting the difficulty of the steel path because it's true: why play steel path missions apart from to flex your gear if the rewards are exactly the same?

[Tesseract7777]

4 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I'll stop beating it when he gets down from it.

Good luck, Steve has full dictatorial control and is more stubborn than almost anyone I have ever observed. I've given up, but good luck on your quest. 

[PublikDomain]

Just now, Tesseract7777 said:

Good luck, Steve has full dictatorial control and is more stubborn than almost anyone I have ever observed. I've given up, but good luck on your quest. 

Thank you. I'll just have to someone like SkillUp or Angry Joe to make a video on it, we'd have improvements added overnight!

[TARINunit9]

9 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Their answer to Dojo NPCs was also a "no" at one point, people still asked for it anyways, and now it's a "yes".

The heck are you talking about? The guys flying that skiff in the Dry Dock? The Lich trading room? The Command Intrinsic? I certainly haven't seen any Dojo NPCs in the news except in the most superficial of connections

10 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And yet the perfect Riven for any weapon exists, and anyone can - today - obtain it for themselves. You just have to pay money for it.

Grinding out the perfect Riven on your own seems to be what DE flat-out does not want you to have. It's totally fine if you pay money for it, but getting it yourself? Yucky!

OK now you're just talking in bad faith. I certainly haven't seen any indication that DE actually likes Trading Chat in any way, shape, or form (they seem pretty disgusted by it, from what I can tell), much less microtransactions for platinum-only Riven modifiers

[PublikDomain]

12 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

The heck are you talking about? The guys flying that skiff in the Dry Dock? The Lich trading room? The Command Intrinsic? I certainly haven't seen any Dojo NPCs in the news except in the most superficial of connections\

You should keep up with the news better.

On 2020-11-26 at 5:03 PM, [DE]Helen said:

We’ll also return with details about which Cosmetic Additions to expect first! More Skybox options for the Open Room, Placeable NPCs, Cetus Decorations, and Kuva Fortress Decorations are all on the table and lookin’ scrumptious.

12 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

OK now you're just talking in bad faith. I certainly haven't seen any indication that DE actually likes Trading Chat in any way, shape, or form (they seem pretty disgusted by it, from what I can tell), much less microtransactions for platinum-only Riven modifiers

If you're trying to say that DE "flat-out do not want you to have" the "perfect Riven", then you're flat-out wrong. The "perfect Riven" exists and is readily available if you spend money on them. Literally the second post opening Trade Chat just now was a 550p offer selling a FR, CC, CD, -Z Bramma* Riven - that's about $25. This is not an uncommon story. DE publishes actual Riven trade data online and you can see the kind of prices they go for. So does DE flat-out not want you to have the "perfect Riven"? Clearly not, you can buy one today! Yet DE flat-out refuses features like stat-locking, and have for years. Features which would do nothing but allow non-paying players to grind out the exact same Rivens they can buy today for money.

[Tesseract7777]

4 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

You should keep up with the news better.

If you're trying to say that DE "flat-out do not want you to have" the "perfect Riven", then you're flat-out wrong. The "perfect Riven" exists and is readily available if you spend money on them. Literally the second post opening Trade Chat just now was a 550p offer selling a FR, CC, CD, -Z Bramma* Riven - that's about $25. This is not an uncommon story. DE publishes actual Riven trade data online and you can see the kind of prices they go for. So does DE flat-out not want you to have the "perfect Riven"? Clearly not, you can buy one today! Yet DE flat-out refuses features like stat-locking, and have for years. Features which would do nothing but allow non-paying players to grind out the exact same Rivens they can buy today for money.

I have a funny feeling rng rivens are just too important for their bottomline, and that that is why they are so resistant to stat locking. 

As you said, those rivens still exist, if you are willing to buy plat, or trade stuff for plat and go buy one for a really high price. They are out there, it is not impossible to find the "perfect riven" if you are willing to spend your money or somebody else's money. 

So logically, the only reason that makes sense for them refusing to allow stat locking is that they get too much money from people buying plat from them and then buying rng rivens from others. 

I could be wrong, but that is the only thing that makes sense to me for how long and strongly they have resisted even considering some form of stat locking. 

[DrBorris]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Stat locking is a horrible idea. If you do that, may as well just release cc/cd mods for every weapon. 

That is where we are already. The only difference is that right now you have to get through a slot machine to get your cc/cd mod. Something being more exclusive doesn't make it better, especially when it is tied to such raw RNG. Someone can get lucky on a Riven and not grind at all for it. It isn't a "I grinded for hours to get this super powerful mod", if that were the case I would think that having Rivens be powerful would be easier to justify. Stat locking turns the Riven's cyclical progression into a more linear one, it has NOTHING to do with power because that power already exists for the lucky (or plat-rich) people.

I remember when [DE]Scott gave that excuse on a podcast with Tactical Potato. It was a bad reason then and it still is now. If something is okay in the hands of the lucky it should be fine in the hands of the masses. If something is too powerful for the masses then the lucky shouldn't have it either.

[PublikDomain]

3 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

So logically, the only reason that makes sense for them refusing to allow stat locking is that they get too much money from people buying plat from them and then buying rng rivens from others. 

I mean, it is the most immediate conclusion to draw. I don't like this conclusion, because I want to think better of DE, but what else is there? Balance concerns are moot, because "perfect" Rivens already exist and have always existed. I even have a few myself. And while mechanics like stat-locking would certainly make more "god rolls" than there already are, Disposition exists specifically to balance Riven power so the tools to address that have already been in place for a long time. Is it left alone keep grind up for engagement? Maybe, but that just leads to burnout. I know that I'm in the minority, but this is my Riven inventory:

They're dead to me, my engagement is zero. I don't even bother with Sorties anymore because why would I? What am I gonna get, another Riven?

[Tesseract7777]

16 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I mean, it is the most immediate conclusion to draw. I don't like this conclusion, because I want to think better of DE, but what else is there? Balance concerns are moot, because "perfect" Rivens already exist and have always existed. I even have a few myself. And while mechanics like stat-locking would certainly make more "god rolls" than there already are, Disposition exists specifically to balance Riven power so the tools to address that have already been in place for a long time. Is it left alone keep grind up for engagement? Maybe, but that just leads to burnout. I know that I'm in the minority, but this is my Riven inventory:

They're dead to me, my engagement is zero. I don't even bother with Sorties anymore because why would I? What am I gonna get, another Riven?

I don't want to believe it either, but at this point I just cannot, no matter if I try, come up with any other reason that makes any sense. 

I am pretty burnt out on it myself, haven't gone to nearly the effort as some.... and don't have much to show for it, but I just cannot bring myself to bother. I don't feel like rolling for who knows how many man hours to get something good, and I am not enough of a whale or trader to go buy thousand plat+ rivens. When I get free kuva from something incidentally I will go ahead and roll the few unlocked rivens I have for weapons I care about, apart from that I cannot be fussed to do anything with them. You don't need them to beat any content in game, and unless you are willing to grind your bones off (and maybe still never get a groll), or spend gobs and gobs of platinum, or just get uber, uber lucky, you are never going to have many rivens that are of much of any real use. 

As a semi-casual, sometimes plat spender, sometimes trader, depending on where I am at life at the time, it's just too much bother in its current state and I think people burnt out on the system are potentially more than people realize. I know of a lot of people with a pile of grolls who still think the game would be better off if rivens were jetttisoned entirely out the nearest airlock. 

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

If you're trying to say that DE "flat-out do not want you to have" the "perfect Riven", then you're flat-out wrong. The "perfect Riven" exists and is readily available if you spend money on them. Literally the second post opening Trade Chat just now was a 550p offer selling a FR, CC, CD, -Z Bramma* Riven - that's about $25. This is not an uncommon story. DE publishes actual Riven trade data online and you can see the kind of prices they go for. So does DE flat-out not want you to have the "perfect Riven"? Clearly not, you can buy one today! Yet DE flat-out refuses features like stat-locking, and have for years. Features which would do nothing but allow non-paying players to grind out the exact same Rivens they can buy today for money.

Again, you're operating under the bad faith that DE

1) Actually likes the dumpster fire that is Trading Chat,

2) Intended for it to become that way, and

3) Makes a lot more money off it than you think they do

When I buy your riven for 550 plat, and then you buy another riven for 550 plat, then that guys buys a riven for 550 plat, DE isn't making any additional money after that initial 25$ (especially since I bought the plat for 75% off, DE didn't even make 10$). And even if they were, that's chump change compared to the 65$ Prime Access packs they sold to every OTHER player

[PublikDomain]

17 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

1) Actually likes the dumpster fire that is Trading Chat,

2) Intended for it to become that way, and

3) Makes a lot more money off it than you think they do

If they didn't like it, they've had 4 years to change it. They didn't.

If they didn't intend for it to become this way, they've had 4 years to change it. They didn't.

And with how much plat changes hands every day in the Riven trade, it's undoubtable they're making money on it. It doesn't matter what I do with that 550p when you buy that Riven from me, what matters is that the 550p came from a real money purchase somewhere down the line. All the plat that changes hands every day in the Riven market came from a real money purchase, whether that was from a PA or with a coupon or for full value, DE makes real money on people trading Rivens.

ETA: Like, the mechanics we're talking about would make Trade Chat less of a dumpster fire. And despite that DE has said, explicitly, "no". They don't like it, but they won't fix it? That doesn't make sense.

[Hypernaut1]

Can someone explain to me how DE allowing Rivens for trade encourages plat sales? Who here is buying plat to purchase Rivens? If players are selling Rivens they don't want for 100s of plat... Doesn't that DISCOURAGE buying plat? 

I've yet to hear of a player buying 1000p just to trade for a riven. 

[BDMblue]

I’m honestly just done with this conversation. Rivens are that god drop from Diablo, and rolled with playable resources. Something for a 100% finished endgame player to do. It’s fine as is and they are not going to change it.

If you don’t like them don’t use them. None of my current builds use rivens.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

3 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Thank you. I'll just have to someone like SkillUp or Angry Joe to make a video on it, we'd have improvements added overnight!

 

SkillUp? HAHAHAHAHHAHA. You're kidding right?!??!?! The guy who is super buddy buddy with DE is the guy you want to make a video on this? HAHA. Don't expect anything from the guy who basically chaffuered Rebb, Steve etc. for a video. Thanks, I didn't know I needed this laugh.

[PublikDomain]

36 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

If players are selling Rivens they don't want for 100s of plat... Doesn't that DISCOURAGE buying plat?

No, because people are buying those Rivens for 100s of plat. Rivens are one of the many things that drives player-to-player trade, and from DE's published trade data you can see that they drive a lot of trade. Player-to-player trade helps move plat from the people who buy it to the people who will spend it. All traded plat comes from a real money purchase somewhere down the line, and all DE cares about after that point is that it eventually gets out of the market through their paid items and services. After all, people won't buy more plat if they have nothing to spend it on. And by making Rivens tradeable they give F2P players something to grind away at, which keeps them inside the game where they're more likely to spend money - theirs or someone else's. Plus there are things like boosters and slots for both sides to spend money on.

It makes total sense that DE would want to protect something like this, even though it sucks for anyone trying to play a game and not a second job.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

If they didn't like it, they've had 4 years to change it. They didn't.

If they didn't intend for it to become this way, they've had 4 years to change it. They didn't.

And with how much plat changes hands every day in the Riven trade, it's undoubtable they're making money on it. It doesn't matter what I do with that 550p when you buy that Riven from me, what matters is that the 550p came from a real money purchase somewhere down the line. All the plat that changes hands every day in the Riven market came from a real money purchase, whether that was from a PA or with a coupon or for full value, DE makes real money on people trading Rivens.

ETA: Like, the mechanics we're talking about would make Trade Chat less of a dumpster fire. And despite that DE has said, explicitly, "no". They don't like it, but they won't fix it? That doesn't make sense.

Guilt through inaction, we at least have an accusation from you that I don't necessarily disagree with

[PublikDomain]

20 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Guilt through inaction, we at least have an accusation from you that I don't necessarily disagree with

Or at least... complicity? Don't know if it's the right word. DE has the power to change things, yet haven't. So either they like how things are, or at the very least don't dislike it. And when DE has tackled almost identical issues in the past, you gotta wonder why this time things are different.

Quote

“And we saw, you know, a guy pull the lever like 200 times,” Carter said. “And it’s just like, ‘oh my dear god, what have we done? We’ve created a slot machine.’ And so you know, it was a couple days I think it took us to take it out — a day, day and a half. That one is a big regret.” He added that while the feature turned out to be extremely lucrative for the studio in this particular case, it completely went against what the intent of the Kubrows, and Warframe itself, was supposed to be.

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/03/warframe-removed-a-microtransaction-because-a-player-used-it-too-much/

1 hour ago, (PSN)DoctorWho_90250 said:

 

SkillUp? HAHAHAHAHHAHA. You're kidding right?!??!?! The guy who is super buddy buddy with DE is the guy you want to make a video on this? HAHA. Don't expect anything from the guy who basically chaffuered Rebb, Steve etc. for a video. Thanks, I didn't know I needed this laugh.

🤷‍♀️ idk, I don't follow them. Maybe it was NoClip? They all sound the same to me.

[Aldain]

Lol Riven mods.

[(PSN)thegarada]

9 hours ago, Goldenrice said:

statlocking or slot machine.  you're choosing slot machine? you have 10,000 posts on these forums and thats the hill you wanna die on?

 

you don't have to just gift cc/cd into every riven for all the players.  you just make them grind for it, like everything else in the game.

As you mentioned in your first post you would rather buy with platinum. Even if you did not buy the platinum, someone else did, and presumably you obtained by selling prime parts. DE making it easier to reroll hits their finances. 

I am not saying it is a good thing. But it is reality.

[DrivaMain]

6 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Thank you. I'll just have to someone like SkillUp or Angry Joe to make a video on it, we'd have improvements added overnight!

No those people doesn't matter that much to DE. If you really want change, initiate another Jim Sterling Inquisition. The last one instantly change the prime vault packs to include accessories.

[zuraja]

13 hours ago, Goldenrice said:

It's just so weird to me that DE will stand behind the current system, which really only benefits a minority of players, literally the 1%-5% of players who can throw around thousands of platinum

People being willing to pay ludicrous sums of plat for rivens is what brings in the whale money.  This cancerous system is never going away.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

5 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

No, because people are buying those Rivens for 100s of plat. Rivens are one of the many things that drives player-to-player trade, and from DE's published trade data you can see that they drive a lot of trade. Player-to-player trade helps move plat from the people who buy it to the people who will spend it. All traded plat comes from a real money purchase somewhere down the line, and all DE cares about after that point is that it eventually gets out of the market through their paid items and services. After all, people won't buy more plat if they have nothing to spend it on. And by making Rivens tradeable they give F2P players something to grind away at, which keeps them inside the game where they're more likely to spend money - theirs or someone else's. Plus there are things like boosters and slots for both sides to spend money on.

It makes total sense that DE would want to protect something like this, even though it sucks for anyone trying to play a game and not a second job.

What would DE replace it with? DE makes money from people buying either frames outright (which provides platinum) or by people buying the platinum outright. Were DE to change how it conducts business, they would have to replace the revenue lost from (riven related) plat purchases with something else for players to sink real money into.

[Merrcenary]

i am against stat locking, but i would like to see fixed riven dispo for every gun so i would start rolling them and not worry that my GODROLL acrid riven would be worse then regular mod

[Venus-Venera]

rivens dont work at all. you can do it much better and give them, in addition to general stats, unique stats like:

1. chance 1-4 ability to trigger with damage or after taking damage.
2. + skill level for a specific skill.
3. damage is distributed in the XX radius.
4. increase drop chance.
5. and much more...

you don't even have to think up anything. just look at the mods for diablo2. players have long since done the work.

besides, what's the point of a riven if i can't use it for my current weapon at all and hardly shows any difference to the ordinary mod ...

[Hypernaut1]

8 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

No, because people are buying those Rivens for 100s of plat. Rivens are one of the many things that drives player-to-player trade, and from DE's published trade data you can see that they drive a lot of trade. Player-to-player trade helps move plat from the people who buy it to the people who will spend it. All traded plat comes from a real money purchase somewhere down the line, and all DE cares about after that point is that it eventually gets out of the market through their paid items and services. After all, people won't buy more plat if they have nothing to spend it on. And by making Rivens tradeable they give F2P players something to grind away at, which keeps them inside the game where they're more likely to spend money - theirs or someone else's. Plus there are things like boosters and slots for both sides to spend money on.

It makes total sense that DE would want to protect something like this, even though it sucks for anyone trying to play a game and not a second job.

But doesn't the fact that a free player can earn 1000s of plat actually discourage sales as much as anything too? When that 75% discount hits, why would an active riven trader need to buy plat when they know they can make 1000p from that extra vectis riven? 

From personal experience- being able to sell Rivens for 100s of plat has definitely discouraged me from utilizing my plat discounts. I don't think I'm the only one. I know for a fact DE has lost money from me. 50%+ discounts were at least a $20 purchase from me. I stopped buying plat completely after getting into trading. There was no need.

Of all the "evil schemes" a company can come up with to gouge players for money, one where the players themselves can profit from too sounds like the absolute best one and we should all be happy about it.  

Riven market is really a win/win genius system then. DE makes money, AND players make money too. It's not even fully dependent on RNG because you can sell unveiled. It gives the average player a chance at a windfall.