With the RJ crew, the main syndicates "enemy/friend" mechanic is more pointless than ever...

[ZeroX4]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)Shelneroth said:

Them invading you is basically them doing their own syndicate mission. They are trying to kill you to help their cause.

Yeah but if we consider that syndicate missions are only missions that they do to help their cause
Then any normal mission is regular mission not related to any syndicate cause

And they just invade you to F u up
Because if regular missions would be in any way connected to syndicates you would have syndicate agents all over the mission from the start helping or disturbing you

Thats why when you get invaded its only because they are going out of their way to do you harm
So friendly syndicates should jump into your mission and it would be logical they help u for a bit

Or in other words if enemy can randomly attack you IN A MISSION then your friend should randomly help you IN A MISSION or am i wrong?

[Institute-Marksman]

I've managed to roughly balance out all my Syndicate standings so they're either neutral or they like me. No death squads :)

Before the update, they were glorified loot dispenser, but having their people in my ship makes Syndicates a little more dynamic.

[0_The_F00l]

Logically I can understand working with someone I hate, if they have the skills and resources to get work done better or pay me more than the competition.

So the quest is not really a problem for my immersion (we also do invasion missions regularly for rewards , Tenno are mostly an independent contractor)

I do wish there were more cosmetics , a syndicate rework where there are allies coming in to help (like converted liches) is also something i would like.

[Corvid]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Shelneroth said:

Do you think the syndicates know this? I like the idea of casually "killing" an immortal as a means of conveying disapproval, but I'm not sure the syndicates know that is the extent of their actions. 

I think it's pretty much an open secret that the Tenno are immortal at this point. That said, they don't seem to be aware of the Operators in the story, if the comments of my New Loka crew member are any indication.

[BloodKitten]

13 hours ago, Elessara1 said:

New Loka doesn't particularly like the Tenno either.  Do the Titania quest, she whines about asking someone like you to help (even if you're at max rank with them).

 

at this point, you might as well slap on them a mirrored nazi swastika. (with green background)

*please do not confused tilted nazi swastikas and proper swastikas that are used in religion*

[Wawus]

Tying Syndicate rep more with the Railjack system could be the way to go.

Let's call it just loyalty. Syndicates that you are friends with are most loyal to you and have slightly boosted stats and are reliable. Syndicates neutral are just paid to be there. Syndicates that are opposed could occasionally try to sabotage your Railjack, deplete ammo stock, slap EMP... BUT, they would give much higher stat boosts. Risk - reward.

Instead of calling it an annoyance let's call it a gameplay flavour that would actually show impact of our choices.

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

1 hour ago, ZeroX4 said:

Yeah but if we consider that syndicate missions are only missions that they do to help their cause
Then any normal mission is regular mission not related to any syndicate cause

And they just invade you to F u up
Because if regular missions would be in any way connected to syndicates you would have syndicate agents all over the mission from the start helping or disturbing you

Thats why when you get invaded its only because they are going out of their way to do you harm
So friendly syndicates should jump into your mission and it would be logical they help u for a bit

Or in other words if enemy can randomly attack you IN A MISSION then your friend should randomly help you IN A MISSION or am i wrong?

I can't say I agree with you, but it's hardly worth going back and forth on it.

[RazerXPrime]

14 hours ago, _junguler said:

that makes sense, i'll give it a try, what do i have to lose :)

What you want to do is get to know the syndicates and what they offer. You will choose a "primary" and a "secondary" syndicate. It's a bit complex at first, but once you gain an understanding not really that hard.

Each Syndicate has one ally, one opposed and one enemy. In order to gain standing with a Synicate you equip one of their sigils on your warframe. A % of the affinity you gain goes to the syndicate standing. Super easy eh? Now the complex part comes from syndicate allies and enemies. You can only gain Max standing with 4 syndicates if you play the easy way (like me) and it will take time to do so. You will want to pick 2 syndicates that you can level up together. For instance I choose Steel Meridian as my "primary". They are allied with Red veil which gains 50% of the standing Steel Meridian gains from kills while wearing the sigil. Their enemies are New Loka and Perrin Sequence. So I have max negative standing with those two. This means I cannot use their shops nor gain standing with them and they will attack me ever so often (no big deal).

I chose Cephalon Suda as my "secondary". Levelling up Suda increases Arbiters of Hexis, but lowers Red Veil by 50% and also New Loka. So I have to pay attention that when I want to gain with Suda that I can lose some standing with Red Veil.

Note that going into negative standing will require you to pay your way out of it if you increase the standing again. Do not go into negative standing with a syndicate it will cost things like a forma and an amount of credits. However previously obtained ranks will not cost anything if you already paid for it. So going from Rank 2 to 1 will require you to gain back the previous standing and select "rank up" but it wont cost anything.

So my advise is to look into the syndicates with the "best stuff" for you. You will gain access to really good mods and weapons from these syndicates and other things when you already have everything you need, like relic packs and such. Want to keep it as simple as possible just select your primary first and go with that one for a while. Once you feel more comfortable with them you can select a secondary. And further in you can add another one as well as long as you have enough standing, but it will take a considerable amount of time and resources to max it all :)

[_junguler]

1 hour ago, RazerXPrime said:

What you want to do is get to know the syndicates and what they offer. You will choose a "primary" and a "secondary" syndicate. It's a bit complex at first, but once you gain an understanding not really that hard.

Each Syndicate has one ally, one opposed and one enemy. In order to gain standing with a Synicate you equip one of their sigils on your warframe. A % of the affinity you gain goes to the syndicate standing. Super easy eh? Now the complex part comes from syndicate allies and enemies. You can only gain Max standing with 4 syndicates if you play the easy way (like me) and it will take time to do so. You will want to pick 2 syndicates that you can level up together. For instance I choose Steel Meridian as my "primary". They are allied with Red veil which gains 50% of the standing Steel Meridian gains from kills while wearing the sigil. Their enemies are New Loka and Perrin Sequence. So I have max negative standing with those two. This means I cannot use their shops nor gain standing with them and they will attack me ever so often (no big deal).

I chose Cephalon Suda as my "secondary". Levelling up Suda increases Arbiters of Hexis, but lowers Red Veil by 50% and also New Loka. So I have to pay attention that when I want to gain with Suda that I can lose some standing with Red Veil.

Note that going into negative standing will require you to pay your way out of it if you increase the standing again. Do not go into negative standing with a syndicate it will cost things like a forma and an amount of credits. However previously obtained ranks will not cost anything if you already paid for it. So going from Rank 2 to 1 will require you to gain back the previous standing and select "rank up" but it wont cost anything.

So my advise is to look into the syndicates with the "best stuff" for you. You will gain access to really good mods and weapons from these syndicates and other things when you already have everything you need, like relic packs and such. Want to keep it as simple as possible just select your primary first and go with that one for a while. Once you feel more comfortable with them you can select a secondary. And further in you can add another one as well as long as you have enough standing, but it will take a considerable amount of time and resources to max it all :)

thanks for your detailed reply, it seems a little overwhelming so i'm going to go at it a little at a time and rank with them passively and don't stress over it.

[Elessara1]

20 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Beats the hell out of me, but it happened and they're still somehow friends!

If you're implying the Sentients, they actually gave reasons for that: The Grineer actually believe Sentients to be saviors who, however indirectly, helped the Grineer throw off the Orokin yoke of oppression. Meanwhile the Corpus are just so arrogant that they think they can (and in some respects, already have) defeat and weaponize the Sentients without the Tenno's help

Tbh, I wasn't even really thinking about the Sentients but about the Grineer, Corpus, and Infested.  Especially the Infested, as they seem more insidious and they don't care where you came from, they'll corrupt anyone regardless.  The original 6 syndicates would gain far more by allying with each other against the Grineer/Corpus/Infested than they would by fighting them AND the other syndicates they hate at the same time.  Although Hexis and Suda seem to be more neutral to everyone (except the syndicates they hate) than the other syndicates.

[Elessara1]

13 hours ago, Corvid said:

I think it's pretty much an open secret that the Tenno are immortal at this point. That said, they don't seem to be aware of the Operators in the story, if the comments of my New Loka crew member are any indication.

New Loka might not be aware but Red Veil definitely is.  If I remember correctly, you *have* to be in operator form to even talk to the Red Veil leader to progress the Chains of Harrow quest.  I think they called it your sacred form?  Something like that.

[TARINunit9]

58 minutes ago, Elessara1 said:

New Loka might not be aware but Red Veil definitely is.  If I remember correctly, you *have* to be in operator form to even talk to the Red Veil leader to progress the Chains of Harrow quest.  I think they called it your sacred form?  Something like that.

Palladino in Iron Wake, yes. Considering she has no problems with Warframes after the quest (unlike a certain racist building I could mention) I took it as a sign that Warframe transference signals interfere with the séance, which Palladino believes has some religious significance

[GEN-Son_17]

On 2021-03-29 at 5:59 PM, _junguler said:

that makes sense, i'll give it a try, what do i have to lose :)

i didn't mean it as them killing me or anything like that but you are right, not a good reason to avoid the content, i'll join them :)

There's more fun and rewards to it that might surprise you. I've only just recently decided to unbalance my syndicates from all positive standings just so I could get a few new augment mods. I love the surprise of having a pissed off syndicate try to off me because I hindered them one too many times. The rewards are outstanding though and well worth the mini game.

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

10 hours ago, Elessara1 said:

Tbh, I wasn't even really thinking about the Sentients but about the Grineer, Corpus, and Infested.  Especially the Infested, as they seem more insidious and they don't care where you came from, they'll corrupt anyone regardless.  The original 6 syndicates would gain far more by allying with each other against the Grineer/Corpus/Infested than they would by fighting them AND the other syndicates they hate at the same time.  Although Hexis and Suda seem to be more neutral to everyone (except the syndicates they hate) than the other syndicates.

It's not really possible for them to work together long term. Their means and in some cases motives differ too greatly. Conflict is inevitable. Consider the situation of all the syndicates banding together to deal with an infested ship. They all agree the infestation needs to be stopped. However they will largely disagree how it should be accomplished. Red Veil might propose nipping it in the bud and nuking the ship. Everyone eles finds that unconscionable, there are survivors that need saving. Red Veil aren't going to waste their time messing about when the obvious solution is being ignored. At best they take no part, at worst they try to destroy the ship while other syndicate agents are aboard. By survivors Suda actually meant data, she's siphoning off resources from the rescue effort to scavenge data instead. New Loka see this as a chance to turn others against Suda. Oh and they refuse to help or allow on their shuttles a group of grineer defectors that were aboard the ship. 

It's the same as real life. All the political parties of a country ultimately want the same thing, a happy, safe country. However they fundamentaly disagree on how to achieve this. One side thinks the people will be happy if we have nice things, so tax needs to be high. The other side thinks people would be happy if tax was low. There's no way to reconcile these two views. 

[_junguler]

8 hours ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

There's more fun and rewards to it that might surprise you. I've only just recently decided to unbalance my syndicates from all positive standings just so I could get a few new augment mods. I love the surprise of having a pissed off syndicate try to off me because I hindered them one too many times. The rewards are outstanding though and well worth the mini game.

this just goes to show how much stuff there is to do in this game that after 1400 hours i still have unfinished grinds :D

[OwlOfJune]

Remove Death Squad. 

Let ppl have option to buy Spectrs of each Syndicate with random resources/credit like Ticker does with RJ crew, and also like RJ with added cost if they hate you.

 

[GEN-Son_17]

8 hours ago, OwlOfJune said:

Remove Death Squad. 

Let ppl have option to buy Spectrs of each Syndicate with random resources/credit like Ticker does with RJ crew, and also like RJ with added cost if they hate you.

 

I thinks this ruins the experience though. You shouldn't have access to their best stuff if you're not even trying to support them in return. RJ is different because Ticker has "negotiated" on our behalf. 

[(PSN)Wolfsherrscher]

I think you guys are taking this syndicate rivalry to serious.

Why not just accept that a rival crew member can be hired regardless - if you pay him twice the normal rate.

[OwlOfJune]

2 hours ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

I thinks this ruins the experience though. You shouldn't have access to their best stuff if you're not even trying to support them in return. RJ is different because Ticker has "negotiated" on our behalf. 

Just Specters, which is hardly their 'best stuff', just providing a way to get them while removing the Syndicate Death Squad, which is annoying mechanic.

Other stuff like weapons/mods/cosmetics would stay beyond their standing. 

[(PSN)Shelneroth]

2 hours ago, OwlOfJune said:

Just Specters, which is hardly their 'best stuff', just providing a way to get them while removing the Syndicate Death Squad, which is annoying mechanic.

Other stuff like weapons/mods/cosmetics would stay beyond their standing. 

I like the death squads. I'd be disapointed to see them go.

[Currilicious]

I'm fine with how syndicates work. In fact I would prefer it if we could buy stuff from "enemy" syndicates at inflated prices like the mercs, that would be great.

[MollAgdeduba]

3 hours ago, Currilicious said:

I'm fine with how syndicates work. In fact I would prefer it if we could buy stuff from "enemy" syndicates at inflated prices like the mercs, that would be great.

This is also a thing that need to be reworked... People want all the stuff and some syndicate have better (untrdeable like cosmetic) thing than other... Take other syndicate stuff with higher price could be interesting

10 hours ago, (PSN)Wolfsherrscher said:

I think you guys are taking this syndicate rivalry to serious.

Why not just accept that a rival crew member can be hired regardless - if you pay him twice the normal rate.

Is not "serious/non serous" is a background problem. For some syndicate the idea of pay them twice could be ok (perrin & meridian maybe) but for oter syndicate this is absolutely out of theyr background. If you create a story with a background, the characters must follow theyr background. 

Both Veil and Arbiter are fanatic  with honor and have theyr moral code. Is theyr law, and they must follow it. And this is why now syndicate enemy/friends mechanic is pointless. Cause this mechanic implies that each syndicate MUST follow certain rules. Removing this mechanic, leaves them free to do what they already do (mercenary, and all the other thing they do but they shouldn't) and this will be a change at the lore itself.

For the player this could be better, not only you avoid that mechanic and make everything more easy, but you also remove the various inconsistency in the story thet now are accumulating an update after the other.

[Elessara1]

23 hours ago, (PSN)Shelneroth said:

It's not really possible for them to work together long term. Their means and in some cases motives differ too greatly. Conflict is inevitable. Consider the situation of all the syndicates banding together to deal with an infested ship. They all agree the infestation needs to be stopped. However they will largely disagree how it should be accomplished. Red Veil might propose nipping it in the bud and nuking the ship. Everyone eles finds that unconscionable, there are survivors that need saving. Red Veil aren't going to waste their time messing about when the obvious solution is being ignored. At best they take no part, at worst they try to destroy the ship while other syndicate agents are aboard. By survivors Suda actually meant data, she's siphoning off resources from the rescue effort to scavenge data instead. New Loka see this as a chance to turn others against Suda. Oh and they refuse to help or allow on their shuttles a group of grineer defectors that were aboard the ship. 

It's the same as real life. All the political parties of a country ultimately want the same thing, a happy, safe country. However they fundamentaly disagree on how to achieve this. One side thinks the people will be happy if we have nice things, so tax needs to be high. The other side thinks people would be happy if tax was low. There's no way to reconcile these two views. 

I agree that in the long term it's not feasible, however there's also the option of just leaving each other alone rather than fighting against each other when there are larger threats to be dealt with.  By wasting resources going against other syndicates they then have less to deal with their primary enemies (which aren't actually the other syndicates) or even for their own defense.  If they can't ally then they could at least have a pact of neutrality.  I mean, they won't because the devs said they won't and that's really the only reason.  It just doesn't make much sense.