Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

[BunnyHunny94]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Sylonus:

I agree with most of what master_of_destiny has been posting

You might want to rethink that, considering that this guy has been shown to be heavily misinformed as well as lying and making things up all the time.

[BunnyHunny94]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Maxi-Mio:

I wanted to build around a glaives because I like the played,
but after reading this I am very tired,
the nerve has 25% for the damage and the time will have been fairer than for 50% !

DON'T NERF THE GLAIVES PLEASE  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😭

The damage nerfs explicitly mention quick throw damage, so there should be no damage difference on a fully charged throw.

Am 18.6.2021 um 16:00 schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

our second change is to reduce quick throw damage to approximately 50% of the maximum charge. Exact number changes are as follows

 

This is an increase in wind-up time by 100% (wind-up speed is being decreased by 50%, i don't know why DE always get this wrong with increase and decrease of time and speed).

Am 18.6.2021 um 16:00 schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

the heavy attack wind-up speed is being increased from 0.6 seconds to 1.2 seconds

Currently, our wind up time (with +60% wind up speed from Amalgam Organ Shatter and Killing Blow respectively) is 0.6/(1+0.6+0.6)≈ 0.27 sec.
After the nerf, it will be 1.2/(1+0.6+0.6)≈ 0.54 sec instead.

You can simulate the modded post nerf wind up speed by only slotting 10% wind up speed (rank 0 Killing Blow) in a pre nerf glaive.
The difference to current wind up time is definitely noticeable, but this will not kill glaives either. Especially because heavy attack glaives are technically a ranged aoe weapon that does not necessarily need to be spammed, which means we can often just start charging the throw a bit earlier (while moving into the place from where we would usually throw) and get the same result, without necessarily losing out on dps/kps (unless the glaive is being thrown multiple times in soon not so quick succession).

Don't get me wrong. This is definitely an annoying nerf that affects quality of life as well. But it will not ruin glaives.

[Sylonus]

7 hours ago, BunnyHunny94 said:

You might want to rethink that, considering that this guy has been shown to be heavily misinformed as well as lying and making things up all the time.

I can't speak for the past, only for this thread, not to mention, irrelevant, it is the quality of the argument that matters, not the arguer. With only this thread as a basis, I'd say that those statements are true about your own posts, rather than his.

[Old_Fogie]

8 hours ago, BunnyHunny94 said:

You might want to rethink that, considering that this guy has been shown to be heavily misinformed as well as lying and making things up all the time.

Disagree.

His premise has been consistent, concise, and well articulated. As for making things up, also disagree, as all of his input in his main thesis has been easily verifiable.

As for your rebuttals.... Hmnn. Well, let's just say you a flair for reconfiguring someone's context in a selective manner that better suits your own narrative, and we'll leave it at that. 

[Old_Fogie]

17 minutes ago, Sylonus said:

I can't speak for the past, only for this thread, not to mention, irrelevant, it is the quality of the argument that matters, not the arguer. With only this thread as a basis, I'd say that those statements are true about your own posts, rather than his.

Agreed.

[-AncientWarrior-]

you know if DE really wanted to balance this "divide" then they should have just made ALL the weapons do the same damage.. then its all about cosmetics.. DE need to make a decision about if they actually want to balance whatever they are trying to balance or not.. if its yes we want to balance all the primary and secondary then just make them all have the same base damage .. or just give us 1 primary, secondary, melee, with skins .. many weapons now will be more useless and will be way across the great divide DE has created so they might as well just make them all the same.. 

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2021-07-02 at 11:47 AM, MistressMoonpaw said:

a single forma takes 23 hours to build, just saying. The main issue is that steel path isnt fun and no one wants to play it. Theres hardly an incentive to. But sure, fanboy along as DE makes this game worse and worse. Youre probably the first to yell "Its not a bug its a feature!" when DE releases tons of game breaking bugs again or adds tons of unnecessary grind: "Its not that bad. Grind is what makes warframe fun!"

I enjoy incursions, and unlocking the entire SP star chart was fun.  It forced me to refine my builds at least a little more than existing content.  And I got to see my Saryn in a new light as debuff support instead of all-powerful-goddess-of-terror.  There were parts that were awful, sure.  The (optional) Jordas Golem and the (not optional) Emissary boss were not enjoyable.

 

I don't see Steel Path as a replacement for the normal star chart or a place I go beyond incursions and the initial unlock though, and that's fine.

[BunnyHunny94]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb Old_Fogie:

Disagree.

His premise has been consistent, concise, and well articulated. As for making things up, also disagree, as all of his input in his main thesis has been easily verifiable.

As for your rebuttals.... Hmnn. Well, let's just say you a flair for reconfiguring someone's context in a selective manner that better suits your own narrative, and we'll leave it at that. 

vor 20 Stunden schrieb Sylonus:

I can't speak for the past, only for this thread, not to mention, irrelevant, it is the quality of the argument that matters, not the arguer. With only this thread as a basis, I'd say that those statements are true about your own posts, rather than his.

those statements being: "shown to be heavily misinformed as well as lying and making things up"

 

I totally agree that the argument is much more important than who makes it.
Let us look at one recent example of these quality arguments from this guy (from this very thread)

Am 2.7.2021 um 21:49 schrieb master_of_destiny:

Facts.  DE has not announced a new spawn rate for Acolytes.  They have not announced the cost of the arcane slot unlocks on an official post or stream.  Despite knowing nothing, you pull 15 minutes directly from your backside.  I cannot even imagine why you justify this...but assume the arrogance is the core issue.

Now let me make an argument.
Every statement he made here, is factually incorrect (citations in following paragraph). His statements directly contradict reality and you can literally disprove his statements by reading/watching the information given in the OP of this thread, which is the information that we are supposed to give feedback to. Note that he did not look for the information in order to verify my statements, but straight up claimed that the exact opposive of what i said was true. He literally called his own (actually made up) claims "facts" and called me arrogant, while wondering about my justification for what i said (my statements being based directly on the official information given).

 

Here is me, already disproving his statements 2 days ago, by providing citations of the official statements which he claims do not exist.

Am 3.7.2021 um 01:02 schrieb BunnyHunny94:

Before you talk about "facts", maybe you should actually inform yourself. By watching the video in the OP of this thread for example (not an unreasonable expectation i dare say).

DE have not announced a new spawn rate for acolytes
From the video in the OP at 9:26 --> acolytes will appear more often

They have not announced the cost of the arcane slot unlocks on an official post or stream
An other piece of information, found in the OP

Am 18.6.2021 um 16:00 schrieb [DE]Rebecca:

Can you buy Arcane Unlockers with Platinum?

- No, this is not a Platinum Market item. They are earned items through the Steel Path Honor’s store for 15 Steel Essence each.

 

 

 

 

 

To add some fun to the affair
Lets see, if any one of you can point out where i actually say anything like this.

Am 2.7.2021 um 21:49 schrieb master_of_destiny:

This is what we call double think.  You either imagined that the requiem mods are a time limited consumable, or you presume their benefit is that they don't disappear at all.  Both are fundamentally altering the provided information.

Or if you can point out that "DPS frame assumption" i apparently made.

Am 2.7.2021 um 16:23 schrieb master_of_destiny:

I also have issues with your DPS frame assumption.

If you can point out, where i actually say what he claims i say, i will apologize to all of you for being wrong.

 

If you actually care enough to read through the guys posts and how he argues against my points, you should notice that almost everything he claims that i said, is made up (i already compiled it for you in two posts on page 69. While i did quote only sections of the posts, you can easily verify that i did not pull these sections out of context or edit them to change their meaning in any way).

 

If after all this, you are still somehow able to think that this guy is reasonable and that i am the one making things up, kinda sad.
 

[TheLexiConArtist]

46 minutes ago, BunnyHunny94 said:

rebuttal

Honestly, all you needed to do was empty-quote the claim of it being 'concise'.

[BunnyHunny94]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb TheLexiConArtist:

Honestly, all you needed to do was empty-quote the claim of it being 'concise'.

True. :D
At this point, i am getting the feeling that the guy uses alt accounts to agree with himself and like his own posts...

[master_of_destiny]

4 hours ago, Sylonus said:

I can't speak for the past, only for this thread, not to mention, irrelevant, it is the quality of the argument that matters, not the arguer. With only this thread as a basis, I'd say that those statements are true about your own posts, rather than his.

 

So....I see two posts that are blocked...

 

I'm assuming some sort of s*** post directly attacking my character.  I need no defense, and I need no pity.  The appropriate way to deal with this is to allow the person to scream at the top of their lungs until they burn themselves out.  Hate and love are both excessively energy intensive actions.  Love may have returns, and hate has none.  It's better to allow that drain to continue.  If you feed this, they'll only see to it that it continues endlessly.

 

 

That said, this is an assumption.  Based upon the fact that we're pulling out the childish "they're a liar" argument with no citations, I can only conjecture.  Please, for the sake of rational discourse, allow this to die.  The topic at hand is more important than a petulant response.  

 

-Edit-

Count is incorrect.  7 so far.  We're rapidly approaching the hyperbolic statement becoming a reality.  My point stands.

-Edit end-

-Edit 2-

Good lord.  I logged out.  I then decided to read.  First there's ignoring the fact that I cited specific examples.  Second there's the absolute double standard of being concise.  Next we roll into the "I didn't make the DPS assumption."  Finally, there's a verifiable bulls*** personal attack assuming that I create alternative accounts to give myself upvotes...because that makes about as much sense as chugging a gallon of bleach.  Creating a trivial amount of upvotes on a forum where the developers largely ignore all feedback.  This is....baffling.  To fabricate an enemy I'm required to want a thing without value, hate a thing that makes no sense to hate, and believe that after  years suddenly posting here will change whatever DE is doing.  You know....because that worked for things like "universal" medallions providing non-universal syndicate standing....right?

 

I'm almost tempted to permanently unblock.  Seeing this kind of mental gymnastics is...it's a car wreck.  There's nothing but a contorted mass of flesh...wrapped around the core point of this update missing the whole "divide" in the arsenal.

 

To those making a defense, please stop.  This is a "don't feed the trolls" situation.  While you try and help, it's only going to hurt.  Can't we all remember the days of stupidity, which we've all had?  Those days where we can imagine malice from every corner of the world, rather than simply having a different perspective?

 

Also, I'd dare the person making accusations to have the gumption to report me.  I have no additional accounts.  I have nothing to hide.  It's fantastic to watch as someone else imagines you a monsterous narcissist, and you're just a person.  It's like those wonderful people in the crazy vans who assault everyone coming back from a fireworks display with the rhetoric that "jews rule the world and control the media."  Being very clear, this is a view I despise but is allowed to be stated in public because free speech is...messy.  It protect both deplorable sociopathic nonsense, and people expressing their ideas.  That comes as protection and burden.

For those that are in the US, I recommend you travel to Milwaukee, WI on the 4th of July once.  They do a fireworks show there, and every year the same vans spouts this insanity at onlookers as they walk home.  It makes it painfully clear that sometimes people need a monster.  To find it they spout nonsense, and imagine slights.  The way to stop these people isn't to argue with them.  You can never offer a reasonable explanation.  You win by ignoring them, and showing basic human respect to the people they imagine as monsters.  If you argue they think they can win...and their version of a win demeans all of us.

 

Please, I beg you.  Do not defend.  Do not feed.  Allow them to do what they may, and join me in the fun when the rope we've handed them is converted into the noose by which they hang themselves.  If DE continues down this path much longer they'll discover exactly how many of their players still remain.  Specifically, how many of us "free" players remain to have the whales lord their fashion frame.  Remember, while DE may be doing better financially they are also dependent upon the free players to have a whale economy.  When there's no respect for time with free players, the whales will also move along.

-Edit 2 end-

[master_of_destiny]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I enjoy incursions, and unlocking the entire SP star chart was fun.  It forced me to refine my builds at least a little more than existing content.  And I got to see my Saryn in a new light as debuff support instead of all-powerful-goddess-of-terror.  There were parts that were awful, sure.  The (optional) Jordas Golem and the (not optional) Emissary boss were not enjoyable.

 

I don't see Steel Path as a replacement for the normal star chart or a place I go beyond incursions and the initial unlock though, and that's fine.

 

So....I'd like to understand this, and frame it differently.

 

If you played this around release, there were no random groups.  We were promised this was an optional high level content bubble.  We were told that it was "too difficult" to change the reward tables.  We were then promised that the rewards would all be cosmetics.  I liked this, because it was truly optional.

That said, it bore MR points.  I wanted to grind it out.  I didn't enjoy about 90%, because it was not about refining builds or demonstrating skills.  I abused powers.  Grineer or infested mobile defense, that's a Limbo.  Defense, that's a Revenant.  Spy, hello Loki.  Exterminate, well look at that Stropha and Revenant abuse of the combo counter.  You get the idea.

How did I solo the Zeloid Prelate?  Well, that was Revenant and chain weapons.

How did I do the Golem?  Well....that's a long grind of invincibility and the Vandal machine gun.  Today it'd be the Mausolon.

 

My point here is that I didn't need to learn anything.  I needed to apply cheese, and win.  

I can see people enjoying it, to some extent.  If your friends want to grind this out, a four person team would likely allow for non-meta frames...despite most choosing meta to make things easier.

Where I jump off the wagon is that nothing has fundamentally changed about the game mode.  Rewards are still a joke.  Steel Essence now drops on an extended timer and mini-boss, rather than RNG from eximus kills.  That said....it's now no longer optional.  It stops being that when power bearing items require you engage with the system.  I just can't reconcile that DE is pulling another bait and switch...and in the process now forcing cheese tactics because the nerfs will disproportionately influence edge weapons.  The meta will remain the meta, but those weapons which weren't meta choices are going to effectively entirely be removed from play when the thing that could get a crit or status before are suddenly only capable of it rarely.

 

 

While I more than reasonably see where you are coming from, I just can't ignore what led to this.  That's where I'm having immense trouble in biting the bullet.  If this was the first time DE pulled this crap it'd be different...but I still remember having to farm archwing gun parts from archwing missions.  If you don't remember this was a game mode that took over several nodes per planet.  The were going to make it something special.  They even eventually added 2 new modes that weren't just copy-pastes of normal modes (pursuit and rush).  After which no content came...  It's screaming out that this is similar....only to keep it relevant they added powerful items that you need to constantly grind.  Only, considering the cost instead of being a thing to grind it'll be another thing that you have to balance against weapon performance.  That is, if a weapon is bad it is MR fodder.  If it is good you determine if you like it enough to spend forma, catalysts, pexilus unlocks, and now arcane unlocks.  Give that huge investment, anything that used to be marginal is now fodder.  Nobody wants to spend a huge amount of time grinding only to discover that it was wasted on a mediocre weapon...and that's going to further kill anything not meta.

Ironic...but I want to be able to use garbo weapons that are fun.  I like the Opticor.  That said, it's not useful on most missions.  This is going to further make the Opticor useless.  I guess the positive is that it'll get better Rivens as it gets slotted further out of use...but that's setting this game that is constantly touted to have player choice farther and farther from offering anything but meta.

[Trickster_God_Loki]

one small idea (i don't know if it was already posted but anyway) - how about increasing the  base dmg of guns ( primaries by 165%, secondaries by 220%), and free one mod slot that we would use for Serration/ primed point blank / hornet strike ?  these 3 mods are added to 99.99% of builds anyway and one more mod slot sometimes can make meh weapon usable.

[master_of_destiny]

7 minutes ago, Trickster_God_Loki said:

one small idea (i don't know if it was already posted but anyway) - how about increasing the  base dmg of guns ( primaries by 165%, secondaries by 220%), and free one mod slot that we would use for Serration/ primed point blank / hornet strike ?  these 3 mods are added to 99.99% of builds anyway and one more mod slot sometimes can make meh weapon usable.

 

So....  That's a very deep hole.

 

Years ago the discussion was about "required" mods.  That would be the increase in damage, the multishot, and elemental mods per enemy type.  DE stated their game was about choice, and they stated that they were looking to remove the need for these basic requirements.

Fast forward to melee 3.0.  There are now certain builds which exist sans pressure point, and do their damage through stacking and scaling damage.  So...melee 3.0 gave us our first reasonable "death of required" mods....but largely supported this with other required ones. 

 

I preface this because the gun debate, about how to address the required mods, is years old.  For what it is worth, the reason that a +165% damage for rifles as simply boosting base stats is never considered is that it is a primary driver for forma usage.  14 capacity on a 30 base capacity is nuts...and 7 on a 60 for upgraded is still above drain.  As such, it'll never happen.

Likewise, I've seen scaling with levels suggested.  That is to say at 0 you do base damage, at 15 you do base+82.5, and at 30 you do base+165%.  This seemed to die because it would make level grinding harder.

Finally, there are a litany of other ways to address this going years back.  No idea is perfect, and most address some of the core issues.  That said, DE doesn't really seem to want to evaluate this situation.  They want to slap arcanes in, introduce new scaling versions of old mods (making the old versions largely obsolete).  All of this is then assumed to be fine as long as they also nerf the scaling of the melee...and my mileage on this making sense varies.

[Kalvorax]

On 2021-06-18 at 7:00 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Enter melee weapons, and equally importantly, the Mods you can use on them. Tenno have spent years sharpening their blades, but as a result, we’ve seen Primary and Secondary weapons collecting rust. And the longer we avoid addressing it, the worse this divide will become. 

One thing i would LOVE to see added to the arsenal UI is COMBO COUNTER ADJUSTMENTS.

IE. I tend to stay at either a 2x (Corrupt Charge) or 12x and 13x (venka prime). i would LOVE to see what our in game stats are like when we are at those counters....is it that hard to add those lines? I shouldnt need to rely on external sites to get the information i need.

  

On 2021-06-18 at 7:00 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

There are 6 Arcanes (3 Primary, 3 Secondary) that you’ll be able to rank up and put to put into the new Slots:

PRIMARY:

The first Primary Arcane is designed with Primary weapons that perform well as AOE or high rate-of-fire weapons. This Arcane will reward kills with the following stats at Max rank:

PRIMARY MERCILESS

On Kill:
+30% Damage for 6s. Stacks up to 12x.
+30% Reload Speed
+100% Ammo Max

The more you kill, the more damage you can build up. Groovy!
 

The second Primary Arcane is designed with high precision weapons in mind. Make your Headshots count for greater performance (excluding AOE headshots)!:

PRIMARY DEADHEAD

On Headshot Kill:
120% Damage for 24s. Stacks up to 3x.
+30% to Headshot Multiplier.
-50% Weapon Recoil

 

The final Primary Arcane is designed with using your full loadout in mind, enter Melee synergy:

PRIMARY DEXTERITY

On Melee Kill: +60% Damage for 20s. Stacks up to 6x.

 

SECONDARY: 

Secondary Weapons will receive the same options as Primary Weapons for their Arcanes, but with their own version. In practice, you’d be able to equip yourself with a Precision Secondary like the Knell, a high-fire rate Primary like the Grakata, and select the Arcane that will reward each play style best!

The stats are the same for the Secondary versions of the New Arcanes:

SECONDARY MERCILESS

On Kill:

+30% Damage for 6s. Stacks up to 12x.

+30% Reload Speed

+100% Ammo Max

 

SECONDARY DEADHEAD

On Headshot Kill:

120% Damage for 24s. Stacks up to 3x. 

+30% to Headshot Multiplier.

-50% Weapon Recoil

 

SECONDARY DEXTERITY

On Melee Kill: +60% Damage for 20s. Stacks up to 6x.

 

Ultimately each Arcane stacks up to the same amount of damage, but it’s how you choose to get there that counts. Precision? Spray and Pray? Melee synergy? Your choice!
 

The “Arcane Unlockers” themselves are an item you’ll need to install on the weapons you want to take further, and you can find the Unlockers in the Steel Path Honors. 

my issue with these are the ON KILL......at End-game content (those SP modifiers for armor and shields seemingly negates whatever "balance" pass you guys did to them) means that many ranged weapons STILL dont have any means of damage scaling so that pretty much makes these a rather useless point for ANY end game....apart from acquisition.

[BunnyHunny94]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Kalvorax:

IE. I tend to stay at either a 2x (Corrupt Charge) or 12x and 13x (venka prime). i would LOVE to see what our in game stats are like when we are at those counters....is it that hard to add those lines? I shouldnt need to rely on external sites to get the information i need.

Would be kinda nice fore sure, but you definitely do not need to rely on external sites for the info either.
You can just take a calculator. Since there are only 2 mods (and one set bonus) that scale with combo count, it is not too much of a hassle.

 

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Kalvorax:

my issue with these are the ON KILL......at End-game content (those SP modifiers for armor and shields seemingly negates whatever "balance" pass you guys did to them) means that many ranged weapons STILL dont have any means of damage scaling so that pretty much makes these a rather useless point for ANY end game....apart from acquisition.

Yes they are on kill, but remember that the Dexterity variants of the arcanes can be stacked up with melee kills, so you can boost your guns without having to get kills with them first.
Things like "Mark of the Beast" that trigger on melee kill, also count melee kills through status effects. I think we can expect this to be the case for the Dexterity arcanes as well, so they should be pretty good.

I still wonder why the buff from Mark of the Beast is not refreshable and why the mod can only be equipped on thrown melees, instead of melees in general. Making this mod useable on all melee weapons and making its buff (+120% status and crit chance for secondary weapon) refreshable, would also buff guns (without requiring to reach endgame content first).

[DarknessNightshade]

Will we be getting a cheeky peek at credit/endo costs for these galvanised mods?

I've been grinding for the past few days in case I need like 40k endo per R10, but some other warframe mods only cost 10k to R10, would be nice to have this info as we already have the data on how these mods will work.

[-IMW-Reckless]

On 2021-06-18 at 11:00 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Dev Workshop: The Arsenal Divide

Tenno,

When choosing weapons for a mission, the Tenno have a lot to consider...

• Which weapons are strong enough for me to fight at this level?

• Which weapons are best against this faction?

• Which weapons are the most efficient and easy to use?

• Which weapons do I have the most fun with?

• Which Mods make these weapons perform best?

 

The average player will ask themselves at least one of these questions (usually more) before making a selection. Not all weapons are built equal, but ideally there are several answers to each query, so that Tenno can make their own choices from a variety of options and keep things fresh. If one category of weapons outclasses all the others, or makes them feel redundant, then we as developers want to step in to make sure choice exists for the sake of fun.
 

Enter melee weapons, and equally importantly, the Mods you can use on them. Tenno have spent years sharpening their blades, but as a result, we’ve seen Primary and Secondary weapons collecting rust. And the longer we avoid addressing it, the worse this divide will become. 

We are changing Melee and Primary in for the singular purpose of making the combat experience more balanced, especially at high level play (Steel Path, etc). 

 

Generally speaking, we feel that gun stats are in a good place, but it's the Mods that are lacking. Inversely, some Melee Mods are too strong. We intend to address these issues in two ways: firstly, careful nerfs to a handful of Melee Mods; secondly, by offering greater strength for the rest of your Arsenal with Primary and Secondary Arcanes and new Galvanized Mods.  

 

Our goal is to encourage you to use your entire Arsenal in-mission. Switching between Primary, Secondary, and Melee weapons should feel like valid and strategic options, in contrast to the uncontested Melee dominance that exists in the current meta. We want Melee to be fun and powerful as you rip and tear your way through the solar system but we want players to have that same level of fun and power with Primary and Secondary weapons should that be their preference. 

 

The option to choose is key here -- one that is lessened by the current divide between Melee and everything else. Our approach to lessen this divide will be through changes to existing Mods, the addition of new Mods, as well as introducing new Primary and Secondary Weapon Upgrades.
 

TABLE OF CONTENTS 

• Melee Mod Nerfs

• Weapon Changes

• Primary and Secondary Weapon Arcanes

• Galvanized Mods

• Login Items

 

If you’d rather watch a video going over this Workshop and the Sisters of Parvos Update at large, check this out:
 

 

 

 

 

---

Melee Mod Nerfs

 

We have 5 categories of changes coming:

Berserker
Bloodrush
Condition Overload
Glaives
Kuva Nukor

 

Berserker:

Attack Speed increases for Melee are part of what makes it so dominant. This is especially true when the conditions to reach animation-breaking Attack Speed are as simple as current Berserker: ‘on Critical Hit’. Infinite Attack-Speed Uptime is possible with a single Mod, and the result is animation noise with no distinction between hits, coupled with massive Damage output. 

 

We still want to support the ability to increase your Melee Attack Speed and Damage Output, just not to the levels you currently can.

Berserker is changing from:

+30% Attack Speed (Max 75%) for 24s on Critical Hit
 

To:

Beserker Fury, cannot stack with Fury.
On Melee Kill:
+35% Attack Speed (Max 70%)  for 10s. Stacks up to 2x. 

 

This is important because:

- It decouples it from Critical Chance.
- Adds a more defined ramp up using ‘On Kill’ instead of On Crit (which frequently meant 0 to ‘Max’ in one swing hitting 3 enemies).
- Renamed to Berserker Fury to communicate that it can no longer be equipped with Fury / Primed Fury. 

 

Blood Rush:

 

Blood Rush’s maximum value is being lowered.This changes the achievability of consistent Red Crits from just one Mod (on most Melee weapons, some High-Critical exceptions), and now additional help will be needed via Mods, Arcanes, or Warframe abilities to achieve consistent Red Crits. 

 

One Mod alone generally delivering the best tier of Criticals felt too powerful.

Blood Rush is changing from:
+60% Critical Chance stacks with Combo Multiplier

To

+40% Critical Chance stacks with Combo Multiplier

 

Condition Overload

Condition Overload’s maximum value is being lowered. It’s been some time since we originally changed this Mod, and in this time we’ve decided we’re still not happy with the way this goes up against other Damage Mods (namely Primed Pressure Point). We’ve reduced this to 80% to make it almost as good as Primed Pressure Point, and 3 Status Types back to where it was originally. It remains true that even though the maximum potential damage is lower now, we think it is still an extremely powerful Mod in its latest iteration.

 

There should now be a more meaningful choice: do you want front loaded damage or a build up from multiple Status Types?

Condition Overload is changing from:
+120% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target.

To

+80% Melee Damage per Status Type affecting the target. 

 

Weapon Changes 

 

Glaives

 

In late 2020, we reworked the Glaive melee class to be more powerful and comfortable to use. Overall, we feel these changes had their intended effect as weapons like the Glaive Prime skyrocketed from obscurity to the top of the pile with their newfound ability to inflict huge damage using heavy attacks.

 

However, these changes also introduced a common issue: players with high melee attack speed would sometimes accidentally throw their Glaives when trying to perform simple melee strikes, and the “catch and release” mechanic sometimes resulted in multiple unintended throws. In reviewing our Melee system, we felt it was a good opportunity to address this concern, while also doing a balancing pass to reflect the power in this newly reworked melee class.

 

That said, our two changes to Glaives go hand in hand: 

 

First, the heavy attack wind-up speed is being increased from 0.6 seconds to 1.2 seconds. With more time on the wind-up, it is much harder to accidentally throw when you are trying to swing.

 

With this increased wind-up speed, players are also more capable of performing quick throws. Right now the damage on quick throws is very close to fully charged, so in order to encourage more meaningful choice, our second change is to reduce quick throw damage to approximately 50% of the maximum charge. Exact number changes are as follows:

 

Cerata

Direct Hit Damage from 366 to 201

Radial Damage from 549 to 333

Falcor

Direct Hit Damage from 460 to 250

Radial Damage from 690 to 345

Glaive

Direct Hit Damage from 210 to 116

Radial Damage from 315 to 190

Glaive Prime

Direct Hit Damage from 328 to 180

Radial Damage from 492 to 296

Halikar

Direct Hit Damage from 298 to 163

Radial Damage from 447 to 225

Halikar Wraith

Direct Hit Damage from 503 to 263

Radial Damage from 621 to 329

Kestrel

Direct Hit Damage from 168 to 92

Radial Damage from 252 to 126

Orvius

Direct Hit Damage from 390 to 215

Radial Damage from to 520 to 293

Pathocyst

Direct Hit Damage from 524 to 288

Radial Damage from 786 to 393

Xoris

Direct Hit Damage from 240 to 120

Radial Damage from 480 to 250

 

Kuva Nukor

 

We are indeed touching 1 non-Melee item in the series of Nerfs, and likely to no one’s surprise it’s the Kuva Nukor. It’s a dominant Secondary with incredible power, which is warranted given its acquisition. It’ll keep all of its signature behaviour, but the general output is being notched down slightly with the following change:
- Chains targets reduced to 2 from 4

Onward to Primary & Secondary…

With all the information about how we are lessening power in some ways, let’s move onto the way we are increasing the power available to Primary & Secondary weapon options. 

 

Primary and Secondary Weapon Arcanes

We are going to start with the biggest change: You can now add Arcane Slots (name not final) to your Primary and Secondary weapons, and fill the Slots with new Arcanes that enhance and reward diverse gameplay. 

 

Our entire approach to making Guns a comparable choice in your Arsenal orbits around the notion that Gunplay is fundamentally more varied than Melee: there are pinpoint accuracy guns, AOE guns, and high fire rate Guns (and everything in between). There’s reload times, magazine sizes, and more. We want to make these varied options better at what they do by rewarding you for using them well - thus, Arcanes! 

Because the Gunplay falloff is more of a late-game problem, these new Upgrades will be earned through late-game content systems -- namely, the Steel Path. You’ll be able to get the Arcane Slot Unlockers from Steel Path Honors, whereas the Arcanes themselves drop from Acolytes in the Steel Path! The spawn frequency of Acolytes is also being increased, meaning you’ll get more Steel Essence, as well as more chances for the Arcane you want. All Acolytes will drop them!  

 

There are 6 Arcanes (3 Primary, 3 Secondary) that you’ll be able to rank up and put to put into the new Slots:

PRIMARY:

The first Primary Arcane is designed with Primary weapons that perform well as AOE or high rate-of-fire weapons. This Arcane will reward kills with the following stats at Max rank:

PRIMARY MERCILESS

On Kill:
+30% Damage for 6s. Stacks up to 12x.
+30% Reload Speed
+100% Ammo Max

The more you kill, the more damage you can build up. Groovy!
 

The second Primary Arcane is designed with high precision weapons in mind. Make your Headshots count for greater performance (excluding AOE headshots)!:

PRIMARY DEADHEAD

On Headshot Kill:
120% Damage for 24s. Stacks up to 3x.
+30% to Headshot Multiplier.
-50% Weapon Recoil

 

The final Primary Arcane is designed with using your full loadout in mind, enter Melee synergy:

PRIMARY DEXTERITY

On Melee Kill: +60% Damage for 20s. Stacks up to 6x.

 

SECONDARY: 

Secondary Weapons will receive the same options as Primary Weapons for their Arcanes, but with their own version. In practice, you’d be able to equip yourself with a Precision Secondary like the Knell, a high-fire rate Primary like the Grakata, and select the Arcane that will reward each play style best!

The stats are the same for the Secondary versions of the New Arcanes:

SECONDARY MERCILESS

On Kill:

+30% Damage for 6s. Stacks up to 12x.

+30% Reload Speed

+100% Ammo Max

 

SECONDARY DEADHEAD

On Headshot Kill:

120% Damage for 24s. Stacks up to 3x. 

+30% to Headshot Multiplier.

-50% Weapon Recoil

 

SECONDARY DEXTERITY

On Melee Kill: +60% Damage for 20s. Stacks up to 6x.

 

Ultimately each Arcane stacks up to the same amount of damage, but it’s how you choose to get there that counts. Precision? Spray and Pray? Melee synergy? Your choice!
 

The “Arcane Unlockers” themselves are an item you’ll need to install on the weapons you want to take further, and you can find the Unlockers in the Steel Path Honors. 

 

Galvanized Mods

 

Our observation that Arsenal imbalance becomes obvious at higher level content means that we want your progression to this content to matter for your power level. We want to give you the tools to progress to optimal play with a new series of Mods: Galvanized Mods!

 

The general approach to these Galvanized Mods is that the unconditional upgrade is not quite as good as the non-Galvanized original, but the On Kill conditional increases them well above and beyond what is available with ‘conventional’ Mods in your Arsenal. These will be available from Teshin’s Steel Path Honors. 

 

 

Login Items

As with many of our large-scale reworks and changes in the past, we want to honour the investment of time and resources our players have put into their Arsenal! Since these changes are both wide-sweeping and precise, we have a general login inbox planned for all players, with a few bonuses for those who meet certain conditions.

With the release of Update 30.5: Sisters of Parvos, players will receive the following upon login:
 

1. All Players Mastery Rank 5 and above will receive 5 x Built Forma.

2. All Players Mastery Rank 5 and above will receive a 3-Day Affinity Booster.

3. Any Player who owns a Kuva Nukor will receive an extra 2 x Built Forma.

4. All Players who owned ANY Lich Weapon at any point OR have a Converted Lich OR have an active Lich get 1x Requiem Ultimatum (a new item to taunt a Lich or Sister into battle)!

5. Players who have Converted a Kuva lich OR vanquished a Kuva Lich will get OULL, which is a Requiem Wildcard Mod! 

 

In closing…

Sisters of Parvos will bring these changes on all Platforms. The delivery of these changes is rooted in our goals, and if we miss the mark we’ll be watching for what to tweak. Keep in mind what our goals and visions are when you give feedback after playing!  

 

---

EDIT: FAQ:

This FAQ section will be updated throughout the next week and beyond!

Can you buy Arcane Unlockers with Platinum?

- No, this is not a Platinum Market item. They are earned items through the Steel Path Honor’s store for 15 Steel Essence each.

Where do the new Arcanes Drop?

- Acolytes on The Steel Path have a 100% chance to drop 1 of the 6 new Arcanes. 

Do Kitguns get 2 Arcane Slots?

- Yes, one for Pax only, one for the new Arcanes! 


June 22 Updated Information:
 

Tenno!

Since The Arsenal Divide Workshop launched on Friday, we’ve been busy developing, testing, and reading responses. We have some preliminary changes to share with everyone! We’re posting in a separate thread to highlight the changes, and will do all necessary cross posting in the originals to keep them up to date.  This means that June 22 onward has the latest information on The Arsenal Divide! 

In the days that passed, we’ve addressed 3 areas (as well as a 4th bonus one)!

Each one is covered in detail below:

1) Arcanes:

Primary and Secondary Dexterity Arcanes:
- Added +60% Holster Speed 
Why:  We are including a Holster Speed benefit within the Arcane itself to ensure the whole ‘Dexterity’ aspect of it is clear with the whole Arsenal being easier to use!  

Primary and Secondary Merciless Arcanes:
- Reduced MERCILESS Arcanes Duration from 6 to 4 secs
Why: We’re simply continuing to balance these (even after posting)! In practice, we felt lowering it was a better start given the pace of true Merciless enemy killing!

P.S the body of the original Dev Workshop missed this, but it was present in the video!
Dexterity Arcanes:  +7.5s Combo Duration

2) Galvanized Mod Properties:

Primary
- Galvanized Scope - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Aptitude - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Chamber - Stack count increased from 4 to 5. Mod Capacity increased from 14 to 16

Shotgun
- Galvanized Acceleration - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Savvy - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
 Galvanized Hell - Base Multishot increased from 80% to 110%. Mod Capacity increased from 14 to 16

Secondary
- Galvanized Crosshairs - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Shot - Mod Capacity reduced from 14 to 12
- Galvanized Diffusion - Base multishot increased from 80% to 110%. Mod Capacity increased from 12 to 14

Why: We reviewed feedback about build and Mod options when it comes to Mod Capacity, and felt it was a good idea to change Mod Ranks. Overall we’ve lowered the required Mod Capacity as a whole per category by 2. 
We also changed the Galvanized Chamber so that it is at parity with the Shotgun / Pistol Mods by virtue of maxing the stacks. 

3) Galvanized Mod Acquisition:

Moved all Galvanized Mods to Arbitrations from Steel Path. 

Why: This change is rooted in the depth of the new items we’re putting in Steel Path with this Update, and the hope some players had about being able to earn the Galvanized Mods before they even arrived on the Steel Path. Since Arbitrations also require a completed Star Chart, but are a step up in difficulty from that base Star Chart, we thought (and so did many of you) that they’d be a good stepping stone for earning some of the new Upgrades! 

Bonus: Beam Weapon Mods! 
4) General Beam Weapon Mod Change:
Ruinous Extension and Sinister Reach are now slottable in the Exilus slot and their text changed from "+X Range" to "+X Beam Length"
Why: While we are in the revision process for all things Mods, some well reasoned suggestions made it aboard! 
 

 

Why didn't just buff the primary and secondary weapons instead nerf melee too?

[(PSN)WGSJaggerJack]

The reason for these changes is understandable, but based on everything you can do with mods, synergies, warframe and other things, it won't cause the desired change, the game isn't balanced in the arsenal, for several reasons, for example, players might like melee weapons better, might like easy weapons that deal aerial damage to begin with.

A great, nicer, simpler solution would be to cast mods like a Condition Overload for primaries, like a friend of mine said.

The arcane are a great addition, everything is going well until you come back with these nerfs that annoy them, when in fact what really annoys you is an increasing amount of bugs that accumulate more each time.

I really like this game, but nerfing this way is hateful and nobody likes it, enemies could be more difficult, reinforce their mechanics, and make them more interesting, as well as their drops, this would be more work but the best for the game.

[Fairwing]

The melee changes blow.  Players are punished for design failures.  Alternative solution leave melee where it is, boost primary and secondary, make enemies more resilient.  DE doesn't have a problem making enemies immune to status effect why not crit resistance?  The number of builds and weapons screwed by the nerfs and the need to further forma and level them to make viable is making me reconsider playing this game.  Try harder to find solutions that don't screw over players.

[60framespersecond]

I'm very disappointed about the communication here. Why even put these workshops up when there is basically no significant response to feedback? Doesn't seem like there is any interest whatsoever on your side to apply outside feedback either, so why bother? This is mostly just dumping finalized information about an unfinished update, not much different to my ISP's message telling me about maintenance related downtime. Is this really what you people at DE intend? Feels bad.

[MistressMoonpaw]

Should be called Dev Workshop: The player divide

[(PSN)mikeyzmore]

Can I get a forma and catalyst refund for all the weapons you needed into the ground? 

[Mleszzor]

excuse me where is my requiem wildcard mod?

[Maka.Bones]

I didn't notice the melee changes (mostly because I don't use berserker, and I always use Sac Steel together with Blood Rush) other than maybe it took slightly longer to reach red crits. 

C.O. actually deals more damage now, with proper status setups (and warframes that also play into adding more status procs)

I absolutely love the shotgun galvanized mods, and THANK YOU for critical delay.