With the poor state Yareli is after her release, and the fact that she's water-themed, I was hoping that more people would look towards Hydroid and his god-awful kit.

[Incongruous]

Why is no one talking about him? I remember how vocal Wukong players were before his rework, same for Ember, but no one is complaining about our resident pirate-frame.

I heard some excuse that he's not touched because of his niche use as a loot-frame, but he's bad at that as well, and is out-looted by every other frame with those capabilities.

He even got what I consider the best looking deluxe up to date, but his entire kit is still so abysmal that it sucks all the fun out of playing with him.

Are any of you also disappointed with his current state and would like him to be viable for any of the 'end-game' content? I know I could just put a bandaid on him in form of the Parasitic Armor or other abilities, but that's not the point of this thread. I would just like him to be great again on his own.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Maybe when DE isn't as busy they'll work on him.

At the moment you're gonna have to deal with the reality, though. 

For looting, can't you weaken enemies held by tentacles so they keep killing? Like a nyx to strip armor of tentacled enemies?

[(NSW)Zergmaster999]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

For looting, can't you weaken enemies held by tentacles so they keep killing? Like a nyx to strip armor of tentacled enemies?

iirc, didn't Hydroid's tentacles from his 4th ability deal 1% damage per second, maybe viral might help with his tentacle's damage (never tried this myself, so take this with a grain of salt)?

[Skaleek]

I mean Yareli has a god awful kit too. I'm thinking Hydroid, Frost, and Yareli are starting to sport the whole, "DE put these frames on ice" theme. Actually of the 3 frames i would probably rate it Frost > Hydroid > Yareli. Frost being up there only because of globe, avalanche's armor stripping/cc, and the synergy between 1 and the ability to blow the globe. Hydroid beating out Yareli because puddle is a pretty sweet ability and Hydroids skills have minor synergies.

For a newly released frame Yareli is in an awful state. One man's opinion.

[Incongruous]

My point was more on the fact that his kit has almost no uses, even the niche ones are overshadowed by even the worst abilities from newer frames. Yes, I can make his looting work and make him "viable" for let's say Steel Path, but I end up with build centralized around either a strong AOE weapon which will strip armor / proc Viral for looting or around Parasitic Armor when I forcefully try to squeeze him into some Steel Path and make it work, but I just end up with an immortal frame that shoots and swings his weapons.
His 1st has a terrible scaling.

His 2nd is just a weak CC that goes in a straight line.

His 3rd is nothing more than a joke anywhere above level 70, even after you strip their armor beforehand. I've put Nidus's 2nd on him to collect enemies, strip their armor with weapons and then suck them up into Hydroid's 3rd, but all that just to try and make it work. I could've just melee'd them to death in the span of seconds.
As for his 4th... I like it. The theme of it is great and the Pilfering augment is a nice cherry on top, but as with his 3rd, yes, I can make it work, but that requires very specific builds, which misses the point of a viable kit.

I would like him to be good on his own, just like other frames are, but whatever I try ends up just straight-up bad.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

You're in luck then, because I find both frames kits garbage, and both in need of work.

[-BellaMuerte-]

I saw a video on youtube recently by Ludens called surging tide hydroid...

 

[Incongruous]

9 minutes ago, VieniSu said:

I saw a video on youtube recently by Ludens called surging tide hydroid...

 

And it's not really what I'm talking about. That combo will work on any and all frames because like he said - all the damage will come from his weapons. The light CC he uses with the Tide / Hydroid's passive could be replaced with Nidus's 2nd or any frame that can gather enemies. That's a weapon build video that Hydroid just happened to be in.

[vanaukas]

10 hours ago, VenerealNidus said:

Why is no one talking about him? I remember how vocal Wukong players were before his rework, same for Ember, but no one is complaining about our resident pirate-frame.

Maybe you aren't that active as me or some other people around here, but you are wrong. A lot of people do talked about this since Yareli's announcement (like the literal anouncement, when we didn't know about her abilities at all, just the "water theme").

[Incongruous]

9 hours ago, vanaukas said:

Maybe you aren't that active as me or some other people around here, but you are wrong. A lot of people do talked about this since Yareli's announcement (like the literal anouncement, when we didn't know about her abilities at all, just the "water theme").

That's true, I've only recently came back to the forums after a quick google search for Hydroid rework and such with this place as the source.

[-BellaMuerte-]

7 minutes ago, VenerealNidus said:

And it's not really what I'm talking about. That combo will work on any and all frames because like he said - all the damage will come from his weapons. The light CC he uses with the Tide / Hydroid's passive could be replaced with Nidus's 2nd or any frame that can gather enemies. That's a weapon build video that Hydroid just happened to be in.

Oh thank you :) I just spotted it yesterday and saw this thread didnt know if it was helpful

[Fallen77]

I know you're only talking about hydroid in your post, but the title alone is complete nonsense.

Because X frame is allegedly in a bad state, we should be looking at Y frame ? Because of some vague water theme ? Bruh... gameplay balancing and theming have nothing to do with one another... If you wanna ask for a hydroid rework, just ask for a hydroid rework, you don't need to convince anyone that he needs one.

Now, the issue is that the time and money invested in reworking him might not be worth it for DE. I think that's the main issue. No new skin to sell, his prime is pretty old now, all that...

[sunderthefirmament]

I spend too much time here and on the subreddit, and I'd say that Hydroid is among the most popular rework requests, if not the most popular rework request.

 

Other popular ones are Nyx, Banshee, Frost, Valkyr, Chroma, and Loki.  Well, and Yareli too.  I think Grendel would pop up more, but people tend to forget about him.

 

In my opinion, Hydroid doesn't do anything that another frame can't do better.  Yareli is now in the same position.  Both of them need more help than just number tweaks to make their kits viable and fun to use.  The other frames I mentioned above all have at least something resembling a niche.  Hydroid and Yareli just don't. 

 

Khora is a better Hydroid for farming, hands down.  Vauban, Nidus, Equinox, and even Zephyr are better Hydroids for CC.  Hydroid's kit doesn't involve meaningful damage, so I won't bother listing the nukers that have him beat.

 

As for Yareli, we already have a cute frame with interesting mobility, self preservation, and CC.  And he's infinitely better than her.  I'm talking about Nezha, of course.  Grendel also surpasses her in mobility, endurance, and CC.  As for whether he's cute or not, well, that's up to you.

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Maybe when DE isn't as busy they'll work on him.

I cant recall any time when they were not busy , its always one thing after another.

I don't think that "they are busy" is enough of a justification to not look at stuff.

 

As to the point at hand.

They have said in the tennocon that they arent "planning" for a rework of any frame.

But my guess is that they are just gonna give rework ideas to new frames instead.

I genuinely think that they are going to recycle all the rework ideas that have been given so far and just add them to whatever frame they pull out of the bin with as close a thematic match as possible.

the last few frames have felt exactly like that.

Am i disappointed with hydroid at the moment? disappointed would be too strong , disinterested would be a better word.

[Incongruous]

28 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

People around here doesn't know how to argue and restort to personal attacks frecuently, which is against the forums guidelines. Then it's a back and forth discussion between 2 or 4 people arguing about who is right and then a mod appears, close the thread and then it gets deleted or just locked and forggoten. I'm culprit of that too, but I've tried to avoid it as much as I can, but some people it's just insufferable

Now I know what you meant. You were right, lol.

6 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I spend too much time here and on the subreddit, and I'd say that Hydroid is among the most popular rework requests, if not the most popular rework request.

 

Other popular ones are Nyx, Banshee, Frost, Valkyr, Chroma, and Loki.  Well, and Yareli too.  I think Grendel would pop up more, but people tend to forget about him.

 

In my opinion, Hydroid doesn't do anything that another frame can't do better.  Yareli is now in the same position.  Both of them need more help than just number tweaks to make their kits viable and fun to use.  The other frames I mentioned above all have at least something resembling a niche.  Hydroid and Yareli just don't. 

 

Khora is a better Hydroid for farming, hands down.  Vauban, Nidus, Equinox, and even Zephyr are better Hydroids for CC.  Hydroid's kit doesn't involve meaningful damage, so I won't bother listing the nukers that have him beat.

I 100% stand behind what you wrote. And it's my bad for not following the reddit or forum, and flooding you guys with another "frame bad! fix it!" thread, but I just had to at least ask if others feel the same way I do. I guess there's nothing more for me to do than just wait for further updates from DE. I just hope that they intend to work on him (and the frames you mentioned) in the near future. Maybe it could be a theme for the 2022 - 'the year of fixing/reworking crap' lol
 

8 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

As for Yareli, we already have a cute frame with interesting mobility, self preservation, and CC.  And he's infinitely better than her.  I'm talking about Nezha, of course.  Grendel also surpasses her in mobility, endurance, and CC.  As for whether he's cute or not, well, that's up to you.

Amen to that.

Cheers.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, VenerealNidus said:

His 2nd is just a weak CC that goes in a straight line.

Indeed, Tidal Surge has always baffled me. Why does Hydroid have a 2 that's the same as Rhino's 1, but twice as expensive?

1 hour ago, VenerealNidus said:

His 3rd is nothing more than a joke anywhere above level 70, even after you strip their armor beforehand. I've put Nidus's 2nd on him to collect enemies, strip their armor with weapons and then suck them up into Hydroid's 3rd, but all that just to try and make it work. I could've just melee'd them to death in the span of seconds.

Hydroid's 3 is useless in Solo, definitely. But you know it actually works really well in teams? I was in a... mission the other day with a Hydroid (I forget if it was survival or mobile defense) and when he would suck up a crowd with his 3, I would shoot a few rounds in the puddle and kill everything. It worked great

[sunderthefirmament]

7 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Indeed, Tidal Surge has always baffled me. Why does Hydroid have a 2 that's the same as Rhino's 1, but twice as expensive?

His 2 is the only thing about his kit I vaguely appreciate... as long as it has the status immunity granting augment on it.  But yeah, even then it's super clunky and not really worth the price of admission when compared to more modern frames like Wisp.

 

9 minutes ago, VenerealNidus said:

Now I know what you meant. You were right, lol.

I 100% stand behind what you wrote. And it's my bad for not following the reddit or forum, and flooding you guys with another "frame bad! fix it!" thread, but I just had to at least ask if others feel the same way I do. I guess there's nothing more for me to do than just wait for further updates from DE. I just hope that they intend to work on him (and the frames you mentioned) in the near future. Maybe it could be a theme for the 2022 - 'the year of fixing/reworking crap' lol
 

I don't think there's anything wrong with your thread.  If people don't keep talking about Hydroid's deplorable state, I can't imagine DE will ever address him.  I was really hoping they'd rework him for his deluxe skin launch, but they didn't.  So now I think our next chance for a rework that DE can monetize is going to come with his eventual unvaulting.

[Incongruous]

1 minute ago, sunderthefirmament said:

So now I think our next chance for a rework that DE can monetize is going to come with his eventual unvaulting.

That's an excellent point. I haven't even thought of that.
Now you've gotten my hopes a bit higher.

[sunderthefirmament]

1 minute ago, VenerealNidus said:

That's an excellent point. I haven't even thought of that.
Now you've gotten my hopes a bit higher.

I would... temper those expectations a bit.  I'm not sure if you're aware, but during Tennocon [DE]Pablo metnioned that no reworks are currently underway and that polishing older content takes developer resources away from new content, which is what they're focusing on.  I'm paraphrasing, but there's an interesting discussion of his comments here.

[Aldain]

Hydroid's problem is he doesn't do anything that other frames can't do better, faster and more efficiently.

His 1 just needs to fully be reworked, it is too random and having to charge it up is awful.

His 2 needs to be replaced entirely, turn it into a wave that Hydroid pushes out instead of a mediocre uncontrollable dash.

I wouldn't even know where to begin with his 3.

Lastly his 4 needs to reign in the "enemies flailing around so much you can't accurately shoot them" issue, it's even more annoying than Strangledome at times (though badly placed Strangledomes are a personal gripe of mine).

I don't even remotely remember what his passive is either.

[Incongruous]

2 minutes ago, sunderthefirmament said:

I would... temper those expectations a bit.  I'm not sure if you're aware, but during Tennocon [DE]Pablo metnioned that no reworks are currently underway and that polishing older content takes developer resources away from new content, which is what they're focusing on.  I'm paraphrasing, but there's an interesting discussion of his comments here.

Oh, my expectations are always low when it comes to stuff like this in Warframe. I just haven't thought of what you said and now see a small glimmer of hope for Hydroid and all the other forgotten frames. As for the other thread, I will definitely read through it, thanks.

[(XBOX)ZDragonLord X]

I agree, both had such good potential, but just fell short.

Honestly any frame that came out pre-parkour update, even first year, REALLY need to be overhauled if not already. Sadly, during Tennocon, it was basically shot down...

"We have no plans to rework any more warframes. It's either work on new content, or redo old. Last time I eorked on reworking a frame was Nezha. Even after his usage numbers hardly fluctuated, showing it wouldn't have much of an impact for the remainder. New content is more of a priority." (Summarized)

 

Which is total bs by the way. So much good potential on old favorites.. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

4 hours ago, Skaleek said:

I mean Yareli has a god awful kit too. I'm thinking Hydroid, Frost, and Yareli are starting to sport the whole, "DE put these frames on ice" theme. Actually of the 3 frames i would probably rate it Frost > Hydroid > Yareli. Frost being up there only because of globe, avalanche's armor stripping/cc, and the synergy between 1 and the ability to blow the globe. Hydroid beating out Yareli because puddle is a pretty sweet ability and Hydroids skills have minor synergies.

For a newly released frame Yareli is in an awful state. One man's opinion.

Bruh....you listed Frost in this? LMAO!!! Hard to take you seriously now. 

Your Frost madness aside, I actually like Yareli's kit. It would be nice to give her blades either independent modding or melee weapon modding bonuses. Otherwise, she sets up a room nicely and is perfect for squad support via trap setting and cc.

[Tesseract7777]

3 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I cant recall any time when they were not busy , its always one thing after another.

I don't think that "they are busy" is enough of a justification to not look at stuff.

 

As to the point at hand.

They have said in the tennocon that they arent "planning" for a rework of any frame.

But my guess is that they are just gonna give rework ideas to new frames instead.

I genuinely think that they are going to recycle all the rework ideas that have been given so far and just add them to whatever frame they pull out of the bin with as close a thematic match as possible.

the last few frames have felt exactly like that.

Am i disappointed with hydroid at the moment? disappointed would be too strong , disinterested would be a better word.

This is why I have been encouraging people to rethink how they approach "rework" ideas in general, and focus on ideas that they can mostly do for old frames by tweaking them creatively behind the scenes. 

If it involves the work of the animation department, like almost at all, except for the smallest tweak, they probably won't even consider it as a rework. They might consider it as a new frame or part of one if they like your ideas though. 

I'd love a revisit for Hydroid still, as he is one of the few I think actually needs it. Pablo's last revisit years ago did not fix his core issues of being inconsistent and janky, they just made him inconsistent, janky, and also overly reliant on energy hogging ability synergies. 

 

[Skaleek]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Bruh....you listed Frost in this? LMAO!!! Hard to take you seriously now. 

Frost is out of date. I don't care if you take me seriously or not. I'd love to see frost's 1 and 2 get some love but a lot of frames need love if we're looking at complete kits and synergies. The reason frost was put in my list is because i listed all the 'ice' using frames, and frost ended up at the top of my tier list.