Banshee can trivialize the entire final Lich/Sister fight in seconds. Change incoming?

[DrivaMain]

DE : We gave Kuva Liches and Sisters a DPS based DR mechanic to prevent players one shotting them

Players : Okay, Proceeds to use Banshee and abuse the multiplicative stacking of Sonar which basically made the DR a non issue allowing players to one shot them.

What will DE do? Nerf Banshee Sonar multiplicative stacking or tune the damage DR to be much harsher for Sonar? Speculate. We all know DE is gonna something about this.

This thread is purely talking about Boss TTK (time to kill). If you want to talk about X cheese tactic that does not have to do with TTK for example invinsibility or immortality against the bosses, this is not the place.

Video Proof from Reddit :

 

Quoting the update page to show that they don't want these bosses to be one shotted :

On 2021-07-06 at 10:02 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Adaptive Damage Scaling Changes for Liches:

Throughout our boss design history, we have added things like diminishing returns and damage mitigation techniques like armor or damage attenuation. In the time since we’ve launched the Kuva Liches, we’ve made adjustments to how we handle player damage vs. Liches. We’ve done things like add allowing Status Effects and attenuate damage to try and create a balanced combat experience. Like many bosses in Warframe, Liches have some damage modifiers applied to them. 

We found a bug in the damage attenuation code, and have fixed it and polished the attenuation for Kuva Liches.

This system generally targets the scenario of very high damage things like the Void Rig’s Arquebex vs. a Kuva Lich, a scenario that is now possible due to the final showdown being based in Railjack. When we were testing this Voidrig Vs Lichout, our Liches barely lasted a second and we realized the damage attenuation code could use some review! We found bugs to fix and things to tweak to account for these new scenarios. Our only intention is to give you a fight that lasts more than mere seconds - happy hunting and may your teamwork and gear lead you to victory! We will be closely reviewing this to ensure we strike the right balance of a fight that requires teamwork and consistent offensive gameplay to beat, but also doesn’t feel impossible. Feedback is welcome!

[Kamachi]

4 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Players : Okay, Proceeds to use Banshee and abuse the multiplicative stacking of Sonar

People throw the term "abuse" around so often. Using a well established Warframe ability is not abusing anything.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

Why does it bother you so much? 

[(PSN)max141064]

People also report this as something broken and to "nerf" and when DE actualy nerfs it: 

[ReddyDisco]

I've been using guns to shoot liches, DE should nerf guns too 

/s

[fo3nixz]

and hey nyx also /s

[DrivaMain]

Just now, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Why does it bother you so much? 

It bothers me because players are getting around a game mechanic designed to combat these type of tactics. You know these type of things will not go unnoticed by DE. Like come on, Level 5 Nemesises getting downed in less than a few button clicks? You know these boss type enemies aren't designed to be one shotted.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

I heard frost can strip armor too. He probably needs a nerf as well.

Oohhh....gauss needs a nerf as well.

[Godzilla853]

DE Rebbeca stated that the DR on them would be changed based on feedback and that we were testing the new DR on the sisters and lichs.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb DrivaMain:

DE : We gave Kuva Liches and Sisters a DPS based DR mechanic to prevent players one shotting them

Players : Okay, Proceeds to use Banshee and abuse the multiplicative stacking of Sonar which basically made the DR a non issue allowing players to one shot them.

What will DE do? Nerf Banshee Sonar multiplicative stacking or tune the damage DR to be much harsher for Sonar? Speculate. We all know DE is gonna something about this.

meant seriously? because without 5 liters of beer I can't take it seriously ..........

you already realize that there are tons of ways to make the fight super smooth?
but you want to make a warframe that hardly anyone plays even worse?

[fo3nixz]

zenurik temporal blast & silence aslo....

seriously people getting ridiculous with nerf pitchforks

[DrivaMain]

On 2021-07-23 at 4:32 PM, (XBOX)TyeGoo said:

The best would be to not let Warframe abilities affect neither Liches nor Sisters. Seriously, even without META, the fight takes just minutes. (And that SOLO, now imagine the possibilities with more people)

Or:

Let Warframe abilities affect everything, including eidolons.

Your call

I am talking about fights ending in Seconds after the encounter.

Banshee is just one outlier I found. In showdown missions, there is at least one Banshee in the mission, using Sonar they can down a Level 5 Lich in Seconds. I just see their health bar instantly deleted. My Fully Modded Chroma with Unairu's Magnetize against a Level 5 Kuva Lich? Can take a minute or two.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

5 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

It bothers me because players are getting around a game mechanic designed to combat these type of tactics. You know these type of things will not go unnoticed by DE. Like come on, Level 5 Nemesises getting downed in less than a few button clicks? You know these boss type enemies aren't designed to be one shotted.

It bothers you because you saw someone do it on YouTube and you were so inexperienced you forgot it existed. It was literally always there and you never cared until now. 

I'm gonna go ahead and take a guess there's some other things about frames you don't know exist right now, correct? 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

I am talking about fights ending in Seconds after the encounter.

Banshee is just one outlier I found. In showdown missions, there is at least one Banshee in the mission, using Sonar they can down a Level 5 Lich in Seconds. I just see their health bar instantly deleted. My Fully Modded Chroma with Unairu's Magnetize? Can take a minute or two.

So jealousy?

[fo3nixz]

so among the most least frames incl nyx needs a nerf.. aight

by that logic they must nerf ash cause i use that for  solo liches..

im taking  this as:  i cant do it, so  u not allowed also.

and if it  bothers u so much, go solo it. 

[DrivaMain]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

So jealousy?

Why Jealousy? If I really wanted to I can just use this setup myself and replicate the exact same thing. I am just pointing out that stuff like this will not go unnoticed.

[(PSN)max141064]

9 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I'm gonna go ahead and take a guess there's some other things about frames you don't know exist right now, correct? 

something like...Radial howl disabling cameras and laser barriers for the duration of the whole ability.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

something like...Radial houl disabling cameras and laser barriers for the duration of the whole ability.

Excalibur nerf incoming. Thanks a lot pal.

[(PSN)max141064]

1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

I am just pointing out that stuff like this will not go unnoticed.

DE themselves already said that they will change it depending on the community response. 

Soooooo...? 

Your post is written and delivered like if it's something that bothers you that Banshee can do. 

So you want her to be nerfed.

Either you didn't mean it to sound that way or you want DE to nerf every warframe that can strip armor or facilitate the killing of said liches. 

[Hayrack]

It's funny how people are jumping OP. The core issue is stupid nerfs due to out-of-hand powercreep and imbalance that was left unattended for years.

[(PSN)max141064]

Just now, Hayrack said:

The core issue is stupid nerfs due to out-of-hand powercreep and imbalance that was left unattended for years.

Oh, so he's putting bandages on his head even before he hits it? smart. 

[Emolition]

Not thinking big enough nerf all warframe powers let them just be partical effects with no gameplay effects so everyone is even.

[blackovercoat]

this make me remember when limbo was nerf duruing scarlet spear, i have agree with OP about this, wait i even have better ideal, not only banshee but all other warframe ability also OP, how about warframe ability are disable during lich fight ? that would be better right?

7 minutes ago, Hayrack said:

It's funny how people are jumping OP. The core issue is stupid nerfs due to out-of-hand powercreep and imbalance that was left unattended for years.

Nah OP just crying about why his OP Fully Modded Chroma with Unairu's Magnetize cannot take his punny Lich down while some chad Banshee  can do it in matter of second

[DrivaMain]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)max141064 said:

Your post is written and delivered like if it's something that bothers you that Banshee can do. So you want her to be nerfed.

If it bothers me that way I would have written this like an angry person that demands this frame to be nerfed immediately. For example..

Quote

I am sick and tired of this frame constantly ruining my challenging Lich fights. DE please nerf this frame into the ground immediately.

The title seems to be problem here that shows I am demanding a nerf. On the contrary, I am just stating the inevitable, I'll change that in a moment.

[Vahenir]

If sonar doesn't end up getting nerfed specifically in this kind of scenario ill be surprised. The reason its as good as it is, is simply because it takes the low after DR damage and amplifies it without any more DR. Most likely it will be moved up one step so that the bonus damage gets hit by the DR as well, and thus no longer bypasses it.