Warframe weapon balance: The prevalence of AOE and my diminished enjoyment as a fan of single target weapons.

[XVMII]

I will first preface this by stating that I do not generally interact with online forums and in the near future (if I play my cards right) I expect that I will stop playing videogames altogether as I am preparing to move to work in Japan and after my moving I suspect I will be extremely busy. I expect that many will disagree with what I have been thinking/feeling since re-entering warframe recently but I believe that my concerns do bear some merit and if I were only to speak my mind when I felt that the majority agreed with what I have to say then I would not be able to respect myself. Also this could be a good opportunity to practice more writing.

 

Recently I have been increasingly attracted to doing missions solo so long as the rewards are not heavily tied to there being additional squadmates. This is new. When I join public matches in relic and sortie missions I am reminded why I have been drifting towards completing missions solo. The dominance of the kuva zarr and kuva ogris and other AOE guns in my lobbies and the ease with which squadmates clear enemies at a pace faster than I could hope to achieve with my favorite weapons not only makes acquiring stacks for weapon buffs (galvanized scope in particular) more difficult but more importantly it makes me feel like the gall bladder of the group: unnecessary. Coming from Fromsoft and Battlefield games the thing I enjoyed most when playing with others was: 1. being accurate and 2. being helpful to my teammates. In BF1 I played exclusively medic and I enjoyed nothing more than to revive a player and recognize the player's appreciation of my efforts to revive them. I have heard from here and there among warframe players that warframe is a horde shooter and (I'm paraphrasing here) "players don't want to have to think [...] they need to get tons and tons of kills to get resources". I first got hooked into warframe because I enjoyed the combat; I loved using the Lex and aim-gliding and chaining headshots. I bought Wisp outright because I saw how she played in videos and upon getting her I really enjoyed navigating the loop of firing off a specter towards an oncoming group of enemies, looking away and managing the group of enemies right next to me while keeping in mind the specter's travel time, teleporting and activating breach surge, chaining headshots, you get the picture. Playing wisp really required my full attention to get maximum enjoyment and I really enjoyed feeling like my mind wasn't quick enough to fully implement what I wanted to do. This appreciation I have of a skill ceiling doesn't seem to be very common among fellow players from what little I can gather and I think that the prevalence of strong AOE weapons paired with primed sure footed and no self damage encourages a very simple playstyle and it feels bad as a player who enjoys demanding gameplay loops to be constantly reminded of how no matter how hard I try or how accurate I become there is always a far more effective alternative requiring very little effort or engagement.

 

I do hope someone from DE reads this and I wish anyone who has made it through what I have written thus far a good day.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

I suggest you play other FPS instead of warframe, if you just want single target guns gameplay try destiny or battlefield. Warframe is more on power fantasy and killing targets fast as possible so you can never avoid AoE guns or abilities, and it be rude of you to try and enforce that style on randoms.

[XVMII]

33 minutes ago, (PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

I suggest you play other FPS instead of warframe, if you just want single target guns gameplay try destiny or battlefield. Warframe is more on power fantasy and killing targets fast as possible so you can never avoid AoE guns or abilities, and it be rude of you to try and enforce that style on randoms.

This will probably be my only reply as I just saw this when closing the browser but here goes.

1."so you can never avoid AOE guns or abilities": I do not think this is a given

2."it be rude of you to try and enforce that style on randoms": The style has changed with time moving to more AOE usage. Here it is suggested that it is rude to impose my single target preference on others (I think we have different definitions of rude but I might be nitpicking).

Warframe's meta has changed dramatically over time. If you take a gander at older warframe vids you'll see various guns come and go through the meta, many of them being single target. It is my opinion that the increasing use of AOE is the result of somewhat recent changes to self damage, additional AOE weapons, and the addition of primed sure footed (although there are other ways to prevent self stagger). The statement "Warframe is more on power fantasy" insinuates (not to put words in your mouth) a quasi rejection of game balance. This notion does not hold in my opinion given previous nerfs on weapons far less capable than those in the current meta. I don't know when you started playing (I'm assuming you started before me given the amount of posts) but in my time these changes have made public lobbies run very differently than how they ran when I first fell in love with the game. 

Lastly, the statement "if you just want single target guns gameplay try destiny or battlefield" I wouldn't consider a great first solution. I have tried both prior to finding warframe and have moved on as Destiny I found to be very floaty feeling and battlefield is not such a hot prospect atm.

[Kontrollo]

Welcome to the forums.

 

4 hours ago, XVMII said:

I will first preface this by stating that I do not generally interact with online forums and in the near future (if I play my cards right) I expect that I will stop playing videogames altogether as I am preparing to move to work in Japan and after my moving I suspect I will be extremely busy. I expect that many will disagree with what I have been thinking/feeling since re-entering warframe recently but I believe that my concerns do bear some merit and if I were only to speak my mind when I felt that the majority agreed with what I have to say then I would not be able to respect myself. Also this could be a good opportunity to practice more writing.

 

Recently I have been increasingly attracted to doing missions solo so long as the rewards are not heavily tied to there being additional squadmates. This is new. When I join public matches in relic and sortie missions I am reminded why I have been drifting towards completing missions solo. The dominance of the kuva zarr and kuva ogris and other AOE guns in my lobbies and the ease with which squadmates clear enemies at a pace faster than I could hope to achieve with my favorite weapons not only makes acquiring stacks for weapon buffs (galvanized scope in particular) more difficult but more importantly it makes me feel like the gall bladder of the group: unnecessary. Coming from Fromsoft and Battlefield games the thing I enjoyed most when playing with others was: 1. being accurate and 2. being helpful to my teammates. In BF1 I played exclusively medic and I enjoyed nothing more than to revive a player and recognize the player's appreciation of my efforts to revive them. I have heard from here and there among warframe players that warframe is a horde shooter and (I'm paraphrasing here) "players don't want to have to think [...] they need to get tons and tons of kills to get resources". I first got hooked into warframe because I enjoyed the combat; I loved using the Lex and aim-gliding and chaining headshots. I bought Wisp outright because I saw how she played in videos and upon getting her I really enjoyed navigating the loop of firing off a specter towards an oncoming group of enemies, looking away and managing the group of enemies right next to me while keeping in mind the specter's travel time, teleporting and activating breach surge, chaining headshots, you get the picture. Playing wisp really required my full attention to get maximum enjoyment and I really enjoyed feeling like my mind wasn't quick enough to fully implement what I wanted to do. This appreciation I have of a skill ceiling doesn't seem to be very common among fellow players from what little I can gather and I think that the prevalence of strong AOE weapons paired with primed sure footed and no self damage encourages a very simple playstyle and it feels bad as a player who enjoys demanding gameplay loops to be constantly reminded of how no matter how hard I try or how accurate I become there is always a far more effective alternative requiring very little effort or engagement.

 

I do hope someone from DE reads this and I wish anyone who has made it through what I have written thus far a good day.

I will mostly just say this: you're not alone.

 

4 hours ago, XVMII said:

... This appreciation I have of a skill ceiling doesn't seem to be very common among fellow players from what little I can gather and I think that the prevalence of strong AOE weapons paired with primed sure footed and no self damage encourages a very simple playstyle and it feels bad as a player who enjoys demanding gameplay loops to be constantly reminded of how no matter how hard I try or how accurate I become there is always a far more effective alternative requiring very little effort or engagement.

Sadly they didn't go into detail asking about this, but in the recent survey there was at least the question about power creep. And the community is very divided on that topic:

 

 

P.S.: This is the General Discussion subforums. If you want a dev to potentially see this, you might want to let a mod move this or make a new topic in one of the Feedback subforums.

Oh looks like this was already in a Feedback forum. My bad.

[johnno23]

XVMII 

I get what you are saying but Warframe I enjoy for all the reasons you feel are possibly wrong.

I love the chaos and mayhem...AoE and obliterating a horde is magnificent fun most times. My only gripe is that DE are quite tame when it comes to the horde spawning enemies unless you go past 30 minutes of survival. The bigger the boom and the more enemies spawning to overwhelm me the more fun I have.....of course that is just my opinion. 

I don't see DE changing things too much in many respects as they are trying to keep the game suitable for a wide range of players. There are plenty of solo missions for the head shot players and then things like Arbitration to help satisfy a player as myself. So I imagine DE try to find a middle ground.

But I must point out that Warframe abilites often when used well can simply obliterate a map faster than the kuva zarr and ogris. So the almost countless possibilities of weapons or abilities does give plenty of room for anyone in public mission to go nuts and have fun. After all it is a game not a test on how accurate we can be.

[Uhkretor]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

it be rude of you to try and enforce that style on randoms.

By your analysis, the rest of the game is being rude to any player that doesn't engage with the AoE stupidity.

 

5 hours ago, XVMII said:

I will first preface this by stating that I do not generally interact with online forums and in the near future (if I play my cards right) I expect that I will stop playing videogames altogether as I am preparing to move to work in Japan and after my moving I suspect I will be extremely busy. I expect that many will disagree with what I have been thinking/feeling since re-entering warframe recently but I believe that my concerns do bear some merit and if I were only to speak my mind when I felt that the majority agreed with what I have to say then I would not be able to respect myself. Also this could be a good opportunity to practice more writing.

 

Recently I have been increasingly attracted to doing missions solo so long as the rewards are not heavily tied to there being additional squadmates. This is new. When I join public matches in relic and sortie missions I am reminded why I have been drifting towards completing missions solo. The dominance of the kuva zarr and kuva ogris and other AOE guns in my lobbies and the ease with which squadmates clear enemies at a pace faster than I could hope to achieve with my favorite weapons not only makes acquiring stacks for weapon buffs (galvanized scope in particular) more difficult but more importantly it makes me feel like the gall bladder of the group: unnecessary. Coming from Fromsoft and Battlefield games the thing I enjoyed most when playing with others was: 1. being accurate and 2. being helpful to my teammates. In BF1 I played exclusively medic and I enjoyed nothing more than to revive a player and recognize the player's appreciation of my efforts to revive them. I have heard from here and there among warframe players that warframe is a horde shooter and (I'm paraphrasing here) "players don't want to have to think [...] they need to get tons and tons of kills to get resources". I first got hooked into warframe because I enjoyed the combat; I loved using the Lex and aim-gliding and chaining headshots. I bought Wisp outright because I saw how she played in videos and upon getting her I really enjoyed navigating the loop of firing off a specter towards an oncoming group of enemies, looking away and managing the group of enemies right next to me while keeping in mind the specter's travel time, teleporting and activating breach surge, chaining headshots, you get the picture. Playing wisp really required my full attention to get maximum enjoyment and I really enjoyed feeling like my mind wasn't quick enough to fully implement what I wanted to do. This appreciation I have of a skill ceiling doesn't seem to be very common among fellow players from what little I can gather and I think that the prevalence of strong AOE weapons paired with primed sure footed and no self damage encourages a very simple playstyle and it feels bad as a player who enjoys demanding gameplay loops to be constantly reminded of how no matter how hard I try or how accurate I become there is always a far more effective alternative requiring very little effort or engagement.

 

I do hope someone from DE reads this and I wish anyone who has made it through what I have written thus far a good day.

Look... Like Kontrollo said, you're not alone. In general, running Solo ends up being more enjoyable and rewarding than being in a group. Even a Private Squad, and this happens quite often, there's always that lingering "Gotta be the one with the most kills" feeling that pushes members towards that kind of tactic.

It doesn't really matter what other players end up saying about your choices, because they are your choices... And that alone makes all of their "theories" invalid.

Suggestion: if you keep playing Warframe in the future (because I believe you can still play Warframe after you move to Japan, and doing missions Solo give you absolutely no lag whatsoever), you might want to engage with Steel Path missions if you haven't already.

The reason for it is simply because you have permanent boosters active in that mode. More difficult, true, but there's that incentive... I don't suggest this for endless missions if you try them Solo (at least, not before you have a proper build for it), but its very beneficial in non-endless missions.

 

Either way, good luck with your future prospects after moving to Japan. 👍

[ligonare]

I can relate. I like to aim and shoot at weakpoints too.

[pook-pook]

Can totally relate.

I've stopped using AoE when playing with my friend unless it's absolutely necessary because it inevitably leads to my friend not having any fun.

Or they have to put on an AoE and the tables are turned.

Or we both do and then the game turns into a blind rush through maps* as we desperately try to get ahead of the other with our AoE and inevitably end up out of affinity range and why are we even playing a squad game if only one person is really doing anything at a given point in the mission?

 

* I'm sure the level designers and artists working at DE love the fact that the new meta means players move too quickly to enjoy their designs...

[Shaysene]

Relate too hard to this.

I personally love guns like the Sybaris or Akvasto but they are so weak and pointless taking into account the AoE, that's the reason i play solo but when i want to play my favorite type of mission which is solo survival in steel path, i just can't keep up, the kps is so low, i would honestly love if they give some kind of aoe to all single target weapons like innate punch through or something.
The time when they nerfed melee and released galvanized mods i was really excited, but got disappointed pretty quickly. Yeah sure, it made single target guns a little bit better, but it also made the already insane AoE even more broken

[AnatharsWrath]

I too love the satisfaction of using single target weapons like the Grinlok and Kuva Quartakk. Slamming a grinner napalm with a well placed headshot while flying through the air is much more satisfying to me than just aiming in their general direction with a Bramma and boom.

I also tend to groan internally whenever i do a public SP incursion only to see wukongs with brammas or Kuva Ogris Nightwatch napalm spammers ect. But i never voice it cause for some people they enjoy that kind of gameplay. I just suck it up and move on cause i have no right to dictate their play style.

Maybe it will change in the future but as is i can live with what we got going.

[PR1D3]

You're not alone in your opinions of the current AoE spam meta. I'm not a fan of it but as you've seen there's a lot of players who enjoy trivializing the game to the point of absurdity. I reject that stupid "it a power fantasy" argument. With my years of playing Dynasty Warriors games, that S#&$ gets old, really fast. And when those players get their way WF takes another step into mediocrity as the gameplay suffers, and those same players are the first to complain, post 'WF is a dead game', and 'I'm Leaving' posts. And you can't wrangle it back in cause they'll complain about it. "You shouldn't nerf stuff! Just buff weak gear!" "You're not respecting my time investment!"

[Sakatchi]

Imagine, if you will, I slid into the forums and said something like "The prevalence of projectile based weapons in this game is absurd, and it prevents me from engaging in my preferred playing style of punching butts. I have began to play solo now because of all these cheap pistol toting randoms who bleed into my games and shoot the enemies before I can get into butt punching range, which frankly kills my enjoyment of the game. Can't we tone down the projectile based weapons already?"

What would your first reaction be? Something like "No #*!% you, I like my guns, go punch butts in solo" I'd Imagine.

Basically the point is, its fine to have a playing style, but you cant expect the game to change just to cater to you. You're going to have to adapt sometime.

[KnightOwl_]

On 2022-03-04 at 3:35 AM, XVMII said:

Lastly, the statement "if you just want single target guns gameplay try destiny or battlefield" I wouldn't consider a great first solution. I have tried both prior to finding warframe and have moved on as Destiny I found to be very floaty feeling and battlefield is not such a hot prospect atm.

You might not like this answer, but in all honesty it’s the correct one. (And witch queen is amazing..)  

Hell the only reason I’m reading and responding is because I popped on after a while to see if there were any changes.  Haven’t played in months. But realistically this game is what it is, and it’s not going to drastically change.  I kind of accepted that.

 Instead of fighting on here for a change that will probably never come, find a game that fits you better.  Do I miss warframe?  Sure.  sometimes. I am here popping on to see if there were changes after all.  But Destiny fits me more right now.   You are better off instead of hoping a game changes to fit exactly what you like, to find a game that fits you from the start.  And if down the line DE does make changes that makes warframe fit the bill for you, you can always come back.  

[RazeLandale]

It seems like if they care about balance, which I think is unlikely, they should nerf aoe and if they DON'T care about balance and just want everyone to have a fun time go ahead and power creep those single target guns after a certain mastery rank so that everyone CAN have a fun time. Instead they're just not really doing anything at all.

[Lutesque]

On 2022-03-04 at 9:28 AM, XVMII said:

I will first preface this by stating that I do not generally interact with online forums and in the near future (if I play my cards right) I expect that I will stop playing videogames altogether as I am preparing to move to work in Japan and after my moving I suspect I will be extremely busy. I expect that many will disagree with what I have been thinking/feeling since re-entering warframe recently but I believe that my concerns do bear some merit and if I were only to speak my mind when I felt that the majority agreed with what I have to say then I would not be able to respect myself. Also this could be a good opportunity to practice more writing.

 

Recently I have been increasingly attracted to doing missions solo so long as the rewards are not heavily tied to there being additional squadmates. This is new. When I join public matches in relic and sortie missions I am reminded why I have been drifting towards completing missions solo. The dominance of the kuva zarr and kuva ogris and other AOE guns in my lobbies and the ease with which squadmates clear enemies at a pace faster than I could hope to achieve with my favorite weapons not only makes acquiring stacks for weapon buffs (galvanized scope in particular) more difficult but more importantly it makes me feel like the gall bladder of the group: unnecessary. Coming from Fromsoft and Battlefield games the thing I enjoyed most when playing with others was: 1. being accurate and 2. being helpful to my teammates. In BF1 I played exclusively medic and I enjoyed nothing more than to revive a player and recognize the player's appreciation of my efforts to revive them. I have heard from here and there among warframe players that warframe is a horde shooter and (I'm paraphrasing here) "players don't want to have to think [...] they need to get tons and tons of kills to get resources". I first got hooked into warframe because I enjoyed the combat; I loved using the Lex and aim-gliding and chaining headshots. I bought Wisp outright because I saw how she played in videos and upon getting her I really enjoyed navigating the loop of firing off a specter towards an oncoming group of enemies, looking away and managing the group of enemies right next to me while keeping in mind the specter's travel time, teleporting and activating breach surge, chaining headshots, you get the picture. Playing wisp really required my full attention to get maximum enjoyment and I really enjoyed feeling like my mind wasn't quick enough to fully implement what I wanted to do. This appreciation I have of a skill ceiling doesn't seem to be very common among fellow players from what little I can gather and I think that the prevalence of strong AOE weapons paired with primed sure footed and no self damage encourages a very simple playstyle and it feels bad as a player who enjoys demanding gameplay loops to be constantly reminded of how no matter how hard I try or how accurate I become there is always a far more effective alternative requiring very little effort or engagement.

 

I do hope someone from DE reads this and I wish anyone who has made it through what I have written thus far a good day.

You do realise The AoE Meta is nothing new right ?

Before this it used to be Melee....before that it used to be Nuke Warframe's....

What you are complaining about has always existed....

It's just that the Barrier is alot lower than it used to be....

And I think the reason why DE has not taken a Giant Nerf Hammer to these things is because most players would rather quit than to Grind Up to the point where they can Clear Rooms with Warframe's again....

Remember.... It's not just an Increase in AoE Weapon Usage.... It's an Increase in players too.... I bet allot of players only started playing more often because now it doesn't take years to Clear the room of enemies....

This means you no longer have to use Frost or Gara for Excavation missions or Saryn and Volt for ESO....

I don't like AoE either... Infact I don't like Killing in General.... But these are what Warframe demands... Especially in the recent Content and Events.... It demands Killing and Killing Alot too....

If DE didn't add a method of Actually allowing Players to actually Keep up with the amount of Enemies that Spawn then nobody would bother with that content....

 

[Kontrollo]

On 2022-03-22 at 5:28 AM, OmegaDonut said:

You might not like this answer, but in all honesty it’s the correct one. (And witch queen is amazing..)  

Hell the only reason I’m reading and responding is because I popped on after a while to see if there were any changes.  Haven’t played in months. But realistically this game is what it is, and it’s not going to drastically change.  I kind of accepted that.

 Instead of fighting on here for a change that will probably never come, find a game that fits you better.  Do I miss warframe?  Sure.  sometimes. I am here popping on to see if there were changes after all.  But Destiny fits me more right now.   You are better off instead of hoping a game changes to fit exactly what you like, to find a game that fits you from the start.  And if down the line DE does make changes that makes warframe fit the bill for you, you can always come back.  

Well, the problem for those who have been around for a while (2013 in my case) and don't agree with the direction it is headed/has been heading, this game did fit exactly what I liked.

But with how they're handling it in the past few months/years, that is getting harder and harder to ignore/deal with.

It's not something we just have to accept silently.

[George_PPS]

I suggest you to promote and join the movement to ask DE to massively buff single target weapons. I used to bring snipers to games, but they really don’t make that much damages anymore considering they are single target only. DE please buff single target weapons!

[alchemystn2o]

Thanks to Gun CO mods, arcanes, and helminth system, as a Mag main/enthusiast ( for the most part ) I outdone players that used frames such as Wukong, Mesa, Saryn, Mirage, Equinox, Rhino, etc. with weapons like Kuva Zarr, Bramma, Ogris, Nukor or whatever AOEs they are using.  Personally, I embraced it.  When they do not understand how I (using Mag) can out perform kills/dmg more than 3 other players combined within a pub session.  And when they ask me "share your build", I either say no or just ignore.  I just basically "fight back" in my own way.

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, alchemystn2o said:

And when they ask me "share your build", I either say no or just ignore. 

Was with you right up until this part....

Maybe those players were using Wukong and Bramma out of some misconception that other Warframe's and Weapons can't keep up....

You've clearly proven they can so why not help them Expand their Horizons ?

It would make mom Happy to see all her Tennos getting along.... 

 

[alchemystn2o]

"Maybe those players were using Wukong and Bramma out of some misconception that other Warframe's and Weapons can't keep up....

You've clearly proven they can so why not help them Expand their Horizons ?"

That part, I respectfully disagree.  If I did all the research and testing the set ups myself, other players are not "entitled" to the build.  I leave that to content creators/YouTubers/Twitch streamers to come up with all those memes/OP'd builds.  And to be honest, I do not want ppl to running around with Mag and doing the same thing I'm doing nor do I "demand" other players for builds because, honestly, I could careless. 

And I can, somewhat, understand how @XVMII feel about the current AOE (Warframes and weapons alike) metas.  When I started WF 6 years ago, I experienced "I didn't get to play" when Saryn, Banshee, Ember just nuked the room. Plus, AOE weapons were not popular during that time due to self-dmg.  When DE decided to remove self-dmg for all AOE weapons, it was Wild-Wild-West.  Just go ham.  And here we are now.

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

DE worked themselves into a creative corner on this one. Hopefully DE can find a reasonable solution to spur more variation in builds. 

 

[Prexades]

It would be a good idea to bring self damage back, perhaps with capped damage on single explosions, but players who go overboard with multishot or spamming multi grenade weapons like the Bramma at close range they absolutely should be able to nuke themselves.

[Vahenir]

7 hours ago, alchemystn2o said:

Plus, AOE weapons were not popular during that time due to self-dmg.  When DE decided to remove self-dmg for all AOE weapons, it was Wild-Wild-West.

The AOE gun meta wasn't really a thing back then due to self annihilation and because melee was just outright better. The current AOE spamming is something I'm not sure if its actually killing enemies faster than the old spin to win atterax. Even after the spin to win meta was nerfed melee was a lot better. But that has been nerfed a lot since, while AOE guns have been massively buffed. Specifically in the form of new mods, arcanes and even weapons themselves. 

So people have always, as you put it, gone ham on the game. 

 

I do believe the extreme power creep is starting to reach critical mass however and i hope that something can be done without forcing people into an ever narrowing meta to keep playing the things they do now. Hell, i just miss having damage types other than viral/slash not being complete trash against most high level enemies with the current cap on corrosive armor stripping. 

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

Been in the same boat for a while, I pretty much run solo besides Relics because Co-op is no existent and I don't feel like screwing my wrist to race a Wukong to kills, so playing on squads just makes me want to give up on playing and just hold W to extraction, which now I often do but I can't call that "playing the game". So my choices are to get less chances of forma/higher ducats, or feel like I'm not playing the game at all.

Powercreep is way out of line and honestly trying to fix the Steel Path with the new mods instead actual changes to the game mode (so it's not garbage) only made the game feel even worse, because it raised the level where enemies can finally put up a fight to way too high (and changes because of Steel Path shouldn't have affected the entire game like they currently do). IMO it made endless missions feel even more pointless and boring. We aren't meant to scale with the enemy level or beat scaling, enemy level scaling is meant to push us out of the mission, by defeat or our own choice, it's what made those missions fun and interesting, now it just feels like running the simulacrum because the enemy can't fight back without bad game design (IE Steel Path). Plus catering to the whole "horde shooter" was a big mistake which also helped kill weapon variety, which is a shame when 90+% of the weapons are literally pushed out of the game by poor design choices.

Then it hurts even more because WF already had poor Co-op design. You don't play co-op because it's required, you do it simply because you can. Same with solo. Sadly trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone ended up pleasing no one and diminishing the game as well. It all lead us to that feeling, Co-op isn't fun but solo doesn't shine either. DE never made proper Co-op because they wanted people to also be able to solo, but solo never got good solo content because it needs to work on Co-op too. Quite the waste because WF has so much potential, and it's just sad to see how bad it gets when you get in a mission only to do nothing but hold forward to extraction because someone is spamming AoE and therefore there's nothing for you to do in that mission.

 

And I also don't like how older guns are losing their niche/nature to become different weapons so they are more popular. Cycron was about status, having native punchthrough and battery charging, Tenet is an Atomos variant (similar case being the Nukor, both guns I enjoyed but the variants aren't the same gun). Apparently Corvas Prime is more like Arca Plasmor than Corvas itself (DE should've fixed the gun instead of changing it into another). There's other cases of mismatching design but they aren't "AoE" so I won't mention, but changes like that feel so cheap and remove so much from weapon design when they could just make a new gun with the same mechanics, so there can be options but without making older guns go extinct because their new version forgo what the original was about.

Edit: To also note that buffs to other guns will accomplish nothing, because almost all the time the issue is that they can't kill, is that there's nothing to kill already.

 

Quote

Remember.... It's not just an Increase in AoE Weapon Usage.... It's an Increase in players too.... I bet allot of players only started playing more often because now it doesn't take years to Clear the room of enemies....

Curiously the numbers on steam didn't really go up for long enough to show the self damage removal as a positive thing by itself, numbers since then have only gotten lower and even PoE had better retention (even Deimos had better numbers than The New War). Of course we could look at other things like actual content being added (which I don't find that bad by itself, it's just that every new content never had good follow ups to keep them relevant and in good condition), but nothing seems to support that claim, because people seem to be playing less often, not more.

The video itself does bring up some good points, but oof that last part hurts. DE can barely fully refine 1 warframe, imagine adding "ability combinations", not only it would be nightmare, but also massively pointlessly adds powercreep for no good reason besides forced combos. But that's besides the point.

 

Edit2:

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Sadly they didn't go into detail asking about this, but in the recent survey there was at least the question about power creep. And the community is very divided on that topic:

IMO Powercreep makes or breaks a game, and if the community that took the time and was active enough to do the survey was so divided, then I'd say it's not just divided and DE actually has big problem in their hands because lets remember, those who had issues and left likely didn't do the survey, and those would likely make up the "negative" portion of the survey stats. Often those that remain are mostly those "okay" with it, and those that aren't okay are either tolerating the problem or thinking about leaving already. Most games I played that had issues and eventually sank had similarities in that, vocal majority was okay with the state of the game and drowned those that voiced worries, devs kept catering to the vocal majority because "few voice problems" and didn't try to understand why people left, and I don't think a survey will help much with that if you can't read the early signs, and again, IMO such a division is a bad sign.

 

 

[(NSW)DracoHouston]

People talk about power creep making things too easy, but this game has always been too easy. My old pc account is from before they added the vor starting quest, back then we just shoved packs of enemies into vauban CC and demolished it with melee, explosives and warframe abilities. A trinity would be keeping you from dying and feeding you energy because we didn't have zenurik dash and arcane energize yet. 

Our 'power creep' has just been letting everyone clown on the vast majority of content in the fashion they most enjoy. It sucks that you don't enjoy being a tiny god demolishing everything in your path but this has never, at any point, been a game about drawn out fights using single target primaries. Trying to make it more like that is a fool's errand. You physically can not stop us trivializing pve content. 

On 2022-03-24 at 9:44 PM, Kontrollo said:

Well, the problem for those who have been around for a while (2013 in my case) and don't agree with the direction it is headed/has been heading, this game did fit exactly what I liked.

But with how they're handling it in the past few months/years, that is getting harder and harder to ignore/deal with.

It's not something we just have to accept silently.

Oh please. Rose tinted glasses.