The impact AoE nerf could have

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, Chitanda.Eru said:

What if we keep each other challenged instead?

Take the stalker mode idea and replace it with Acolyte Mode

game gives you an Acolyte Helmet, there is now 2 additional match making mode -

Public Acolyte (Lets Acolyte players join in)  

Acolyte mode (Requires Acolyte Helmet equipped)

Bring Mag, Trinity or Nyx Assimilate for the lulz

???

Fun maybe?

 

 

My Experience with Dark Souls Invasions says The Exact Opposite 😐...

 

[Hypernaut1]

In my opinion, Warframe isn't built to be difficult. I compare it to racing hobby cars. After a certain point, you don't want a track that's more difficult to race, you just want a track to test your build. You run the track, do some tweaks, and run it again.

With Warframe, you run some missions, find a more effective build and run them again. The fun is in the tweaking, and becoming more effective at doing content. 

While I would prefer more difficulty, time and time again, the community shows that it does NOT want challenge in Warframe. Not too long ago their was constant outcry on the forum to buff guns. BUFF. Warframe will never be difficult outside of a niche mode that provided little rewards. SP was supposed to fulfill that, but then some were asking for more rewards, then some began asking to make the rewards easier to get, then some began to ask for buffs to deal with the content...now we have SP that feels like regular gameplay. 

[Zimzala]

7 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

Yes. And we also hear the opposite a lot. So I guess it would be fair to make a post on that too. No offense just pointing it out.

Anyways these ppl who want a more difficult game are just a loud minority. I wouldn't pay much attention to them honestly. 

This.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2022-01-01 at 9:11 PM, George_PPS said:

We always hear about players wanting the game to be harder, here are some solid and real solutions that work instantly and every time:

1. Play Solo
2. Equip just 6, 5 or even 4 Mods for every items in your loadouts.
3. Use the weakest elemental damages types against each faction. 
  For example, equip full magnetic damage types in all weapons in Grineer missions.
4. Rank essential Mods to just 60%.
5. Use only the most obscure abilities of every warframe in all missions. 

Please feel free to add more advice and recommendations to help these players. 

None of that is beneficial to game or player growth.

The essence of arpg/looters is to have a game that supports your progression with content while also allowing you to make your builds effective and efficient through building properly and eventually min-maxing. While at the same time providing you with future content to tackle with the progress you've made and also allow you to progress further through new item hunting.

Your ideas arent even really a band-aid.

[Charlotte]

On 2022-01-01 at 5:11 PM, George_PPS said:

We always hear about players wanting the game to be harder, here are some solid and real solutions that work instantly and every time:

1. Play Solo
2. Equip just 6, 5 or even 4 Mods for every items in your loadouts.
3. Use the weakest elemental damages types against each faction. 
  For example, equip full magnetic damage types in all weapons in Grineer missions.
4. Rank essential Mods to just 60%.
5. Use only the most obscure abilities of every warframe in all missions. 

Please feel free to add more advice and recommendations to help these players. 

Let me ask you something: why the #*!% would I be playing a looter shooter just to NOT USE MY LOOT? Can you answer me this very simple question?

[DrivaMain]

Custom difficulty without any EXCLUSIVE GAMEPLAY ENHANCING REWARD or NO REWARD AT ALL so that the casual majority won’t whine. You’re playing for the experience, not the end reward.

[Hypernaut1]

40 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

Custom difficulty without any EXCLUSIVE GAMEPLAY ENHANCING REWARD or NO REWARD AT ALL so that the casual majority won’t whine. You’re playing for the experience, not the end reward.

This is what i wanted SP to be, but they had to add rewards and then make it easier. I still appreciate what we get from playing SP, but we're really just back at square 1. 

I wouldnt mind a SP+ play list with extra hard SP missions, with only a cosmetic or kudos as a reward. Maybe a profile flare or something that has to be maintained with SP+ missions. 

[Jarriaga]

On 2022-01-02 at 4:46 AM, JackHargreav said:

Yes. And we also hear the opposite a lot. So I guess it would be fair to make a post on that too. No offense just pointing it out.

Anyways these ppl who want a more difficult game are just a loud minority. I wouldn't pay much attention to them honestly. 

https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-136-overview

"Loud minority".

[(NSW)Greybones]

28 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-136-overview

"Loud minority".

Jot me down for 5, plz.

 🤔 Though depends on my mood. Sometimes I just really want to get a quick mission in; looking forward to Mobile and cross-save so I can link my Switch and PC accounts

edit: I’m assuming 5 is “Very important”

[Jarriaga]

35 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

edit: I’m assuming 5 is “Very important”

Correct.

[Silligoose]

On 2022-01-01 at 10:11 PM, George_PPS said:

We always hear about players wanting the game to be harder, here are some solid and real solutions that work instantly and every time:

1. Play Solo
2. Equip just 6, 5 or even 4 Mods for every items in your loadouts.
3. Use the weakest elemental damages types against each faction. 
  For example, equip full magnetic damage types in all weapons in Grineer missions.
4. Rank essential Mods to just 60%.
5. Use only the most obscure abilities of every warframe in all missions. 

Please feel free to add more advice and recommendations to help these players. 

Self-nerfing is no secret. Generally games build to a challenging climax where honed skills and builds get tested. The reason players ask for a challenge endgame in Warframe, is they've been grinding and building to a perceived challenging endgame, where their honed skills and builds would be tested, only to find out later it doesn't exist. 

Imagine Gran Turismo 3 was released with C-tier and B-tier races, with C-Tier and B-Tier car opponents and options to tweak your cars (as one can do in GT3). Players progress and unlock A-tier and S-tier class cars. It is only natural for them to want to test their honed skills, A-tier and S-tier cars in S-tier races and not unreasonable to want to see GT3 have such races. Someone coming along and saying "nah GT doesn't need A-Tier or S-Tier races or opponents, because you can just nerf yourself, revert  your tweaks and keep driving C-tier and B-Tier cars if you want a challenge", seems a bit silly to some and the fact that there was no actual endgame climax being built towards, is unsatisfactory to many. Review scores would suffer, potential players would be lost and player retention would suffer. It would serve GT developers well to have those A-Tier and S-tier races in the game, especially if they plan on expansions: If an expansion were to come out with more A-tier and S-tier cars, but the expansion doesn't include A-Tier or S-Tier races, reception of the expansion wouldn't be as great as it would have been, had there been A-tier and S-tier races in which players are challenged. Sales of the expansion would suffer.

The difference between something like a B2P game like GT3, and Warframe, is that GT3's revenue depended on sales of the game and player retention isn't as big of a factor, although player retention does affect expansion sales. For GAAS (games as a service) games like Warframe, player retention and continued interest is a far bigger factor with regards to revenue generated and one can argue a challenging endgame is even more important for GAAS games like Warframe.

Expecting a balanced challenging endgame is not unreasonable, whether it is for a B2P game, a F2P game, a GAAS game etc and the self-nerf suggestions are a little silly in my opinion (this is the only community I recall doing it so vehemently on forums). Of course DE doesn't have to provide an endgame challenge, but it would most likely serve them well to have an optional endgame challenge mode, as it could increase player retention, increase player interest and increase revenue generated. Players asking DE for an optional challenge at endgame is simply letting them know: "DE we love the game and we'd love for our endgame setups to be challenged.".

There is a market for that and it can be introduced in an optional mode so as to leave the power fantasy demographic with their fun as well in the current game. The demographic for the challenge-seeking market may not be as vocal on things like forums, as many of the players within that market quit when they saw the expected endgame challenge doesn't actually exist.

Edit: @Jarriaga provided a statistic showing the challenge seekers appear to not even be in the minority. Wow.

[Kontrollo]

My opinion of this thread:

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-136-overview

"Loud minority".

28 000 Responses out of how many Active Players ?

I will always claim Loud Minority on the Bases of Difficult Games never selling more than the Easier Ones.... ALWAYS....

 

[Jarriaga]

45 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

28 000 Responses out of how many Active Players ?

Impossible to know as active player numbers for consoles are not public, nor do we know how many people didn't see the survey on time or chose not to participate at all. Still, that number works as a global overview for the exact same reason DE can tell there's a problem when 5 people report an issue in the forums out of thousands of players: Market sample scaling. At the very least it shows that the vast majority of the people who care enough as to engage with the survey want a higher challenge.

45 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I will always claim Loud Minority on the Bases of Difficult Games never selling more than the Easier Ones.... ALWAYS....

That is an absurd premise:

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/dark-souls-3-has-sold-over-10-million-copies-pushi/1100-6477468/#:~:text=Over four years after its,series to over 27 million.

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2021/10/monster-hunter-world-sales-break-20-million#:~:text=Monster Hunter World has now,in just over a year.

Notice the sales figures for Iceborne in particular. Not only does it require the base Monster Hunter World game (Which is not an easy game; it is 100% mechanics-driven and a lot harder than WF), but it further made the game even more difficult by adding endgame content and activities that were lacking in the base game. The whole package of World + Iceborne Master edition in turn accounts for roughly 45% of all MHW sales to date. 

As noted by @Silligoosethese game's sales are not front-loaded. The more they play, the longer they play, the stronger they get, the easier it is to get bored because you outgrow what the game offers you. This is particularly true for GAAS/MMO models with constant expansions in which player retention matters. Reb is even publicly on record admitting player retention due to lack of challenging content is a concern to DE: 

Ergo, their own internal metrics show this is a problem. So if you want to argue she is wrong when speaking about what the company's concerns are in the context of player retention then be my guest. 

[George_PPS]

6. Play PvP
7. Make AOE on any weapon an option/a check box, allowing some players to self-damage as much as they prefer. 
8. Hard Mode - All damage outputs decrease by 50%-75% or more. 

[(NSW)Greybones]

Use different builds.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Thinking of something like the system in borderlands 3 

[Nox-Inruptio]

replay the whole game... using only operator mode 👿

And your own rule: if you get forced back into your warframe - it's a failed mission. >)

Now if DE ever adds any achievements for that... or completing the Tenno Schools.. that'd be awesome.

[Numerikuu]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

Impossible to know as active player numbers for consoles are not public, nor do we know how many people didn't see the survey on time or chose not to participate at all. Still, that number works as a global overview for the exact same reason DE can tell there's a problem when 5 people report an issue in the forums out of thousands of players: Market sample scaling. At the very least it shows that the vast majority of the people who care enough as to engage with the survey want a higher challenge.

That is an absurd premise:

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/dark-souls-3-has-sold-over-10-million-copies-pushi/1100-6477468/#:~:text=Over four years after its,series to over 27 million.

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2021/10/monster-hunter-world-sales-break-20-million#:~:text=Monster Hunter World has now,in just over a year.

Notice the sales figures for Iceborne in particular. Not only does it require the base Monster Hunter World game (Which is not an easy game; it is 100% mechanics-driven and a lot harder than WF), but it further made the game even more difficult by adding endgame content and activities that were lacking in the base game. The whole package of World + Iceborne Master edition in turn accounts for roughly 45% of all MHW sales to date. 

As noted by @Silligoosethese game's sales are not front-loaded. The more they play, the longer they play, the stronger they get, the easier it is to get bored because you outgrow what the game offers you. This is particularly true for GAAS/MMO models with constant expansions in which player retention matters. Reb is even publicly on record admitting player retention due to lack of challenging content is a concern to DE: 

Ergo, their own internal metrics show this is a problem. So if you want to argue she is wrong when speaking about what the company's concerns are in the context of player retention then be my guest. 

And she/DE is right. Sadly they've dug this hole themselves, and now have to kinda make do/adapt to the situation they have created and nurtured. The New War was a nice shaking of the proverbial bee hive in that sense. I just hope they don't back down and plant their foot firmly going forward--unless the stats show otherwise that the majority didn't complete the New War. Then they may have to reconsider or try another approach. In the end, they're a business.

...Also man, Iceborne was hands down one of the best game DLCs to have released in a long time. It was a love letter to all Monster Hunter fans imo. Here's to hoping Capcom release another World-like in the future 🤎

(Now I feel like picking up the game and dancing with AT Velkhana again 😄)

[ReddyDisco]

With the amount of popcorn i'm eating, will have to go on a diet  

[Jarriaga]

33 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

And she/DE is right. Sadly they've dug this hole themselves, and now have to kinda make do/adapt to the situation they have created and nurtured. The New War was a nice shaking of the proverbial bee hive in that sense. I just hope they don't back down and plant their foot firmly going forward--unless the stats show otherwise that the majority didn't complete the New War. Then they may have to reconsider or try another approach. In the end, they're a business.

Indeed. Considering the next big story-wise expansion is The Duviri Paradox (Which will in turn require beating The New War), the way DE handle complaints about TNW difficulty will be quite telling with regards to the future of Warframe. If they back down I will wholeheartedly and sadly give up on the notion of WF ever getting an endgame or content that at least matches the level of the tools given to you.

If of the other hand they stay firm then I'll remain hopeful and happy.

33 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

...Also man, Iceborne was hands down one of the best game DLCs to have released in a long time. It was a love letter to all Monster Hunter fans imo. Here's to hoping Capcom release another World-like in the future 🤎

(Now I feel like picking up the game and dancing with AT Velkhana again 😄)

After all this time I still can't solo Alatreon and Safi'jiiva, but I keep trying. Then I'll face Fatalis. That's the beauty of having a challenge: The catharsis when you make it.

 

[Zimzala]

10 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

With the amount of popcorn i'm eating, will have to go on a diet  

With the sheer number of people wanting to make WF into a different game, I think a lot of people forgot Steam had a huge Holiday Sale.

[Felsagger]

14 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

Custom difficulty without any EXCLUSIVE GAMEPLAY ENHANCING REWARD or NO REWARD AT ALL so that the casual majority won’t whine. You’re playing for the experience, not the end reward.

Agree 100 percent. 

 

EXCACTLY THIS. We could have a simulator in our orbiter where we can run any mission with friendly fire or any other parameters we want without rewards. The reward is the experience itself. 

[Numerikuu]

14 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

With the sheer number of people wanting to make WF into a different game, I think a lot of people forgot Steam had a huge Holiday Sale.

Someone wasn't around for early Warframe it seems. Drifter gameplay was reminiscent of how Warframe used to be, before all the nauseating power creep.

[Zimzala]

7 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

Someone wasn't around for early Warframe it seems. Drifter gameplay was reminiscent of how Warframe used to be, before all the nauseating power creep.

I get that the game has changed, but that's the point, the game has changed.

Will it change back? I doubt it, because Grofit.

Nostalgia is nice and all, but I prefer reality.

If some want to drag WF 'back in time' because the 'good old days were better', then these forums exist for them to address the community and the developers.

The reality however, is that this game is a horde based looter shooter and if you want something to play, then you need to look elsewhere or accept the fact you can make your own fun if you try.

That's reality.

I get that some of the players here want some gritty, edgey-boi sci-fi life simulator, but the game is a horde shooter.

You can rail against that, you can say WF 'lost something', w/e, but again, I chose to live in reality, not the past.