Echoes of Duviri - Community QOL Improvements & Changes

[Xenokis]

Can the opacity of the damage numbers be adjusted?
Often the damage is so overflowing that the enemy's head is obscured, which is very crippling in a headshot-oriented frame like Harrow.

[AlbrechtEntrati]

35 minutes ago, (PSN)Dyin-Kyo said:

Laetum will be fine, it's just felarx and phenmor.

I wouldn't be so sure about Laetum being "fine". Someone in public squad is guaranteed to proc puncture on the enemies for you at some point, especially in Circuits where everyone gets random weapons. If anything, this will push more people to play solo. 

9 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

If the puncture proc is actually a reduction in crit threshold like @IDystopiaI is guessing, than it won't really matter for those builds except in situations they're already suffering...for instance, with Harrow giving crit chance.    If it's additive with standard crit bonuses, then it's a nerf but not what I'd call a big one considering how crazy Attrition is.  If it's what the wiki calls an absolute bonus, like Avenger, then it's a big nerf to the standard  Felarx build.  Smaller nerf to Phenmor, since it only has puncture on non-Incarnon.  Only an indirect nerf to Laetum which has no puncture, but would be affected by puncture from other sources.

Yeah, we'll have to see when the update comes, but judging from the emphasis on the word "additive" here, I'm not optimistic about it. 

[Zaghyr]

These changes look fantastic. There is some confusion on how the Puncture and Cold Crit Chance/Damage actually adds up apparent throughout the thread. I'm pretty sure they're flat bonuses added to your modified Crit Chance/Damage, making the weapon's actual Crit Chance/Damage value irrelevant. Some good QOL would be taking a page out of different playing card games, and introducing PSCT, Problem Solving Card Text, to the game. This would probably take quite a while to implement throughout the game, but I think it's necessary for the game's long-term health and player retention. Upgrading your gear should NOT be the nail in the coffin that makes a player want to stop playing the game because they don't understand how to interoperate certain numbers.

On the note of damage statuses, could you also look at Damage type Mods? We definitely need new IPS and Elemental mods with differing effects to diversify our builds, it is pretty stale to only really have a (Damage type increase) and (Damage type and Status Chance increase) mod for each weapon and element. An example could be a Melee Slash mod that gives Slash Damage and makes enemies affected by Slash Procs more likely to drop Health Orbs.

Additionally, IPS damage mods need to be revisited. These changes to Puncture and Impact are great, but they will be heavily underutilized because you cannot really mod for them. IPS mods only increasing their damage type instead of multiplying off of their total base damage makes them almost completely worthless, and makes them a trap for new players who are being mislead by the mod text. Changing IPS mods to scale the exact same way as Elemental Mods would solve this, as if we wanted to mod for Puncture, we could, and we wouldn't have to worry about how much Puncture the weapon already has. Now the obvious concern with this is that everyone would just use Slash mods. And if that is the case, then that is yet another piece of evidence of poor balancing and shows that Slash, as well as Viral and enemy armor, needs to be looked at.

[Do_High_Go]

1 hour ago, Redrigoth said:

Glaive has forced slash procs, so what if halikar does a little extra flat damage? Maybe then people might bother to use it. That's the point.

And glaxion gets more crit? Good. Make more incentive to use it. Single target beam, Maybe hits 3 enemies with punch-through.

Bramma has high crit and status out the ass with bomblets. Lenz alternative would get 30% more crit but a little less status and this after 10 stacking cold? Where's the issue?

And why tf do we need to be locked into the helminth armor strip path? What if we want to play with something else but still do actual damage to high armored enemies with single target rifles?

And why would lich and sister weapons break? Maybe bramma does a little extra damage from its slash and toxin procs? Atleast all the others that are unused become just as viable.

And your justification for not needing improvements to all the unused junk is that you can kill a lv9999 with a Mk1? After how much setup? Dedicating all the mods and slots just to force a crappy weapon to become half as good as meta weapons?

Why don't you suggest actual improvements that can get us out of the slash viral or armor strip meta? And what's up with this stupid mindset that acts like any reworks have to be exactly as described to the letter without any tuning for different weapon types? Or that they have to be implemented right now before pet rework? You're one of those people that just complain without offering anything of value. "hhnnnggg! everything is fine stop complaining!" every time someone brings up an issue or suggests improvements

  Halikar Wraith is strong, and is being used. Glaxion Vandal is also a very good weapon IF you know how to use it. The issue with Bramma is that the explosion is Blast, and you want Blast to be partially Viral too, which makes Bramma even stronger to the point it will invalidate the options you claim to want to enable, There is the issue. Not to mention Blast doing what you suggest does not fit with something called Blast unless you do some advanced mental gymnastics (not that the current version is better).

Litch/Sister weapons either enable elemental combinations, or limit them depending on what you get and what you want to build. You cannot say "Maybe Bramma does a little extra damage" when that little extra damage will put it exponentially further ahead, resulting in adding xxx number to the damage of everything, so everything stays the same relative to each other.

I have never stated that I do not want improvements, I do as much as you, just not Yours, especially with the way you try to oversell their viability and ignore the ways they can be abused along with criticism. What if you need setup to do damage? That is the game, if you want big number, you have to work to get it, seems fair and reasonable to me. What does not seem balanced is letting every gun do Jesus damage with 3 elemental mods. Also why do you add Armor strip in the meta even, it is the most basic way to deal with Armor...

I can, just like you, produce a bunch of random personally beneficial ideas and then try to justify them with "for the greater good", however I prefer to not make a fool out of myself. I can do it here but i don't think that is the place. You did it poorly, but that does not mean I have to do it at all. It also does not mean im okay with the current state of things either!

Your straw man arguments and intentional misinterpretation of what I say are silly. You obviously are in "If they don't agree with me, they are enemies of improvement" mode, as if you are the leading voice of game mechanic innovation or something. "You're one of those people that just complain without offering anything of value." You started by complaining that Cold is still weak compared to Viral, I pointed out the flaws in a "design" you advertised, it is called constructive criticism, sorry I did not sugar coat, you were not happy and pulled the straw man.

I was going to say that you also have not offered anything of value and are just complaining, but in fact you did offer something of value, now the devs know exactly how Not to change those elements. And I contributed too, with why they should not. So let's shake hands and say, that we together, in this back and forth, drove the mechanical evolution of the game away from becoming kubrow droppings. It is still bad, but at least it's not going to get worse.

[Kaggelos]

8 hours ago, (NSW)BIGFO0T said:

This is just a nerf to impact damage. Literally no one uses impact for finishers as literally no one relys on finishers—single target kills—to accomplish anything outside of niche meme builds that get dumpstered by meta builds that clear entire rooms with one button. What a garbage change do yall even play this game outside of streams?

I do.

And im all for it.

Mercy kill animations are dope af.

Also great buffs (cc entire room, energy, health, ammo reload etc).

[Do_High_Go]

9 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Cold Changes:
Freeze Status Effect Changes:

• Increased the maximum amount of stacks from 8 to 9.
• Increased the additional per-stack Slow from 3.5% to 5%. 
• Increased the maximum Slow effect from 75% to 90%. 
  • While we previously mentioned buffing Cold Slow Effect to 85% in our Citrine’s Last Wish update, we mistakenly only increased it to 75% instead. 

 This is great! If you could please decouple the Thrax unit transition to ethereal form from slow it would be awesome.

[IDystopiaI]

22 minutes ago, Xenokis said:

Can the opacity of the damage numbers be adjusted?
Often the damage is so overflowing that the enemy's head is obscured, which is very crippling in a headshot-oriented frame like Harrow.

You need to aim by the colour of your crits to play Harrow.

Source - My Headshot kills with this weapon dwarf normal kills for most of my other weapons and, only the Kuva Ogris has more total kills than this weapon's headshots.

[Raijinmeister]

Thanks for gutting the non-crting builds with the changes to impact and puncture.
Phenmor, Felarx, and Laetun have very good non-crit builds that you are destroying here. And before someone mentions -cc rivens, hell no. If a weapon needs rivens it means it's a crap weapon, and those weapons are far from it. Now from optional, they will become mandatory for builds. The prices on those rivens for those weapons are already ridiculous, imagine after this change.
Set some test servers to have proper feedback from players and stop making "one solution fits all". If you want to go the crit route make those procs letting enemies more vulnerable to crit damage, increasing the dmg from crits, and call it a day.

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[0_The_F00l]

I do not like the incarnon adapter for plat changes too much. It smells a little off.

But i will with hold any further comments on it , as I don't know if there is a weekly cap or some other conditions need to be met to unlock the shop. 

But it does not infuse me with excitement.

 

Puncture and cold changes ... Seem ok , flat 25% CC or 50% CD after mods , so flat bonus ? Or will they be additive WITH mods ? It's ok either way , but i do not see myself actively changing my builds to accomodate for it.

Impact changes are kinda ... Nowhere really , twice as bright and half as long ? The most pointless change that I have seen.

Reading between the lines .... IPS mods are seeing a reduction of Max stacks from 10 to 5 ,but slash is not mentioned .... Curious.

 

The number changes ... Ok I guess , I am a little concerned for the melee numbers following you around , there is already so much clutter. But will again not comment further until I use it.

 

Overguard , was expecting that , so yay.

[(PSN)Dyin-Kyo]

36 minutes ago, Encinos said:

I wouldn't be so sure about Laetum being "fine". Someone in public squad is guaranteed to proc puncture on the enemies for you at some point, especially in Circuits where everyone gets random weapons. If anything, this will push more people to play solo. 

Yeah, we'll have to see when the update comes, but judging from the emphasis on the word "additive" here, I'm not optimistic about it. 

It doesn't apply to aoe damage... Majority of Laetum's damage is aoe while in incarnon mode. Doubt ppl care for the normal mode. Also laetum doesn't have puncture so 99% of the time u shouldn't worry about it. But felarx and phemnor, oh boy.

[(NSW)4g3nt_0]

Please keep the maximum at 300 nothing wrong with keeping it optional 

 

On 2023-07-25 at 4:27 AM, (PSN)Dyin-Kyo said:

It doesn't apply to aoe damage... Majority of Laetum's damage is aoe while in incarnon mode. Doubt ppl care for the normal mode. Also laetum doesn't have puncture so 99% of the time u shouldn't worry about it. But felarx and phemnor, oh boy.

I feel like this extra 25 crit chance is going to buff some and nerf some

I rely on felarx for archon hunts now I have to juggle puncture as a downside instead of just being there

On 2023-07-25 at 4:01 AM, Kaggelos said:

I do.

And im all for it.

Mercy kill animations are dope af.

Also great buffs (cc entire room, energy, health, ammo reload etc).

Kullervo can fix the single target issue 

[IDystopiaI]

9 minutes ago, (NSW)4g3nt_0 said:

I rely on felarx for archon hunts now I have to juggle puncture as a downside instead of just being there

Archons (and Damage Attenuation) were designed pretty poorly. They're sponges that do nothing for the entire fight and make meta a requirement to clear content in any reasonable amount of time. The random enemies spawning are the only dangerous things in those missions (maybe Nira's Toxic mist too if you aren't paying attention, which does not render in for clients)

[0_The_F00l]

9 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:

The maximum number of stacks of Impact that a target can have does not influence the maximum number of stacks of Bleed that a target can have.  These are unrelated effects. If people are worried about the change to Impact somehow affecting [Internal Bleeding] and [Hemorrhage],  then they can stop worrying. :)

Ok , but impact change is rather ... Meh , the other changes had a subtle but clear boost to effectiveness.

The least I expected was a boost to status effectiveness like we have for empowered blades can we see some changes like that ?

[(XBOX)Legion9131]

Pretty stoked for this update, and I'm hoping to hear about SP Arbitrations sometime soon

[ReddyDisco]

Cheers for the puncture and cold changes, gives an incentive to use those elements now, also massive kudos for the new incarnons being able to bought with plat, don't have to suffer in duviri anymore.

[SentientTaco]

Didn't know I needed it, but I really love the damage number changes, and I'm glad you're sticking to them be custom colored - I got a weird setup where purple is already used, so I'll likely change the ability damage color. (And the future healed/energy restored numbers! Harrow is gonna be awesome!)

While you're at the status effects, do take a look at blast damage sometime. It's pretty much useless due to its extremely niche bonus against Machine/Fossilized, and the status effect feels like it has such little impact, due to enemy accuracy being hard to visualize, and even then it doesn't feel so effective. Maybe restore the forced ragdoll effect, or max stacks open enemies to finishers? That way you could have it fill a melee-pus-ranged niche. The original reasoning for the ragdoll effect removal was that it made it hard to aim with the damage type on your weapon, but I honestly think that's negligible - most weapons that have innate blast are AOE anyways, so it's not like you're missing out on the headshots. (Also I want to make a blast hammer that just sends enemies flying.)

[CanOfCraig]

10 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Damage Numbers Scale
Custom scaling of your damage number text size from 50 to 300!

I love this idea! I would love to see it expanded on with Damage Number Alpha scales as sometimes even numbers as they are block critical hit target view, and though I love to see my big red crits, I would also love to see through them. This becomes a bigger issue when you're playing with high fire rate weapons. 

[.LeiA._]

So... how many plats will an Adapters needs? 300? 500? Another player asked "why not use the standings to buy the Adapters?" DE thought of this, I'm sure of it (if an Adapter cost 132,000 standings, I'm down to farm the standings and gladly doing it everyday rather than playing Circuit again and again, it's becoming stale too fast). But they need money. They see how to make profit from this, so why not selling the Adapters using plats?

[Megazawr]

2 hours ago, IDystopiaI said:

Archons (and Damage Attenuation) were designed pretty poorly. They're sponges that do nothing for the entire fight and make meta a requirement to clear content in any reasonable amount of time.

I can only agree with the 1st sentence here. The problem is that it increases their resists after a few hits and falls off after some time, which means that you kill them faster if you make some pauses, than if you shoot continiously, which makes it more painful in public squads.
Another problem is DOT status limit. Fast firing status weapons are extremely weak against such enemies, even when those weapons are very strong against other enemies. Also teammates may override your big slash/heat with their weaker procs, reducing the dps.

To kill archons, you don't need OP meta weapons, you just need decent weapons(I use pandero with scourge, and killed him with some other non meta weapons) and some buffs(chroma for me). And to play solo/with good teammates.

[DhatZ]

Regarding damage numbers :
I saw the compact wasn't working with legacy numbers, maybe disable the toggle with it on or make it work for both.
When compact the large numbers should not be too intrusive, keeping the 300% memes alive.
And since this is getting done, how about distinguishing the many DoT numbers with different number animation direction?
🔥Heat goes up
🗡️slash drips
⚡️electricity arcs(similar to the default but moving out)
😷gas disperses outward as it slows down
💀toxin seeps in from outside.

Overall the status changes are good and in line with buffs i wanted for them, but how is the
⛏️Puncture bonus going to actually calculate? Is this meant to lower the rng threshold required for the crit after the modded+flat ability chance?

 

I suggest making a simple buff becasue mercy only works on some enemies anyway and staggers effectively lower dps when you miss the enemy:

🔨Impact proc buff: deal a protion of the hit as instant damage to all layers of enemy defense based on stack number including through overguard. making it the only multi layer status. but only for enemies so we aren't constantly killed by this effect through our defenses. if this seems too op for basic damage type, maybe bast would work better as it's supposed to be a shockwave expaning through space.

[(XBOX)AchilDeed]

On 2023-07-24 at 7:32 PM, IDystopiaI said:

The impact changes make Impact worse, making the detrimental part of the status more pronounced while trying to make mercy kills more common. Now enemies are going to be flailing around more making headshots harder to land, and will still die before someone gets a chance go up to the enemy to use a mercy kill. This also ignores the fact that you're expecting players to jump into Eximus units, most of which will stagger you and hit significantly harder than the rest of the enemies just to do a mercy kill on a single enemy. There's also the problem that by the time Overguard is destroyed, there's enough DOTs and other status procs present to kill the enemy most of the time, and that mercy kills are only usable on some enemies. Impact makes your weapon worse in all other cases.

Differences between Impact Proc animations below and at cap:

Below 10 Impact Procs - some flailing but not too extreme, more of a minor annoyance.

Shooting enemy that has hit Impact Proc Cap - fairly extreme flailing and will be more common if the cap is reduced to 5.

*Removing the Heavy Stagger when at the Impact Proc Cap would help with mitigating this, or replacing the stagger with something else entirely. As it is I don't think anyone actually uses impact intentionally for the brief stun it provides, and changing the effect to something desirable would go a long way to having players consider adopting weapons like this. (Please no more band-aid mods like Hemorrhage/Internal Bleeding, make the actual status effect useful instead hiding the "fix" behind mods).

Adding an offset for weapon damage numbers would be helpful in cleaning up clutter around the reticle.

Except impact proc doesn't make enemies flail around? 

On 2023-07-24 at 7:09 PM, (NSW)BIGFO0T said:

This is just a nerf to impact damage. Literally no one uses impact for finishers as literally no one relys on finishers—single target kills—to accomplish anything outside of niche meme builds that get dumpstered by meta builds that clear entire rooms with one button.

Typical warframe players being allergic to changes of any kind. Classic. 

[Skoomaseller]

nice changes to puncture but keeping weakened as a status effect is a mistake.

overall the changes to puncture isn't enough.

[chaotea]

On 2023-07-24 at 7:09 PM, (NSW)BIGFO0T said:

This is just a nerf to impact damage. Literally no one uses impact for finishers as literally no one relys on finishers—single target kills—to accomplish anything outside of niche meme builds that get dumpstered by meta builds that clear entire rooms with one button.

Id say thats not true. Impact mery kills are invaluable in steel path for removing the otherwise overly tanky eximus. Especially in steel path circuit. In fact, with even a little impact procs, you can mercy an eximus almost imediatly after stripping its oversheild.

Also, regardless of your opinion on mercy, its hardly a nerf. Even if you would consider mercy useless, it would make it functionally the same as it is now, not worse. The lack of a buff isnt a nerf. Aslo remember that impact already causes enemies to stagger, this just increases the viability of the mercy function on top of that.

[Darkmega18]

11 hours ago, fdge said:

As you focus on one single unit, all the others will focus on you...

  

13 hours ago, Darkmega18 said:

The rest can probably just get CC'd and dealt with leisurely if you play smartly.

13 hours ago, Darkmega18 said:

I-frames for a moment to delay incoming damage to let shields reharden

while controlling the rest of the room with status effects and nukes.

(or blind bombs or power boosts)

  But basically, it's how I've always been playing. and it works. Keep something in the back pocket to control the enemies with. Dethcube with radiation cold missiles just happily firing away or a similarly modded Cedo middle click works wonders for that. Can also mix in some operator shenanigans too. cause i-frames when popping out.

Something Cy says: "Meditation: If we do not control the enemy, the enemy will control us." Whether thats mass furious murder as many do, or strategic application of status effects and a sprinkle of get gud. Control the enemy.

[CoffeeElemental]

I wonder how many people are playing the game with damage/affinity numbers disabled. The game looks cleaner without 'em. Sometimes MUCH cleaner.