Echoes of Duviri - Community QOL Improvements & Changes

[Redrigoth]

0.5% extra crit multiplier after mods from cold procs isn't significant. Viral multiplies your damage by 3x. Why would someone build cold for this? All it does is give epitaph primers a little extra damage.

Read this post for some reasonable balanced ideas:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1360670-about-time-we-make-other-status-effects-relevant-to-promote-build-and-weapon-diversity-and-other-improvements/

 

[Casardis]

2 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

0.5% extra crit multiplier after mods from cold procs isn't significant. Viral multiplies your damage by 3x. Why would someone build cold for this? All it does is give epitaph primers a little extra damage.

Read this post for some reasonable balanced ideas:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1360670-about-time-we-make-other-status-effects-relevant-to-promote-build-and-weapon-diversity-and-other-improvements/

 

Generally Viral is still king, but this change can have additional benefits, such as weapons that have forced Cold procs (Lenz), Warframe abilities (Frost), where both can combine with Viral stacks. It may also allow some Gas-Cold build to synergize better than Gas-Electric. 

[Do_High_Go]

1 hour ago, VladYvhv said:

I think people complaining about it being a nerf are the ones using impact procs for the "convert impact procs to slash procs" mods. In that sense, it's a nerf.

 All the elements and IPS can, and always could, continue procing at max stacks. Those mods requite a status to the Proced, and it will be proced regardless if at cap or not.

[addamrobin2]

forgive me if i sound rude here but all players ask for almost 10 years is just simply for a more legible damage numbers, as in the enemy and crosshair do not get drowned from all the crazy amount of pop ups

my suggestion is to make the numbers appear above the hp bar and in a straighter column to make it neater

just... just whatever you do just make the numbers not drown the crosshair or enemy, please?

or maybe time for a crosshair rework?

[Darkmega18]

1 hour ago, (NSW)BIGFO0T said:

Literally no one uses impact for finishers as literally no one relys on finishers—single target kills—to accomplish anything--

speak for yourself. mercy has utility. like if I run equilibrium and I somehow run out of energy or need some health, a good mercy usually tops me up real good and looks cool. it's also I-frames for a moment to delay incoming damage to let shields reharden and they make nice stepping stones for combo based gameplay, to just bounce between eximus/other heavy units to stay alive and to spawn health and energy orbs and reload slow to re-arm guns while controlling the rest of the room with status effects and nukes.

1 hour ago, IDystopiaI said:

This also igores the fact that you're expecting players to jump into Eximus units,

roll. don't jump. More damage resistance and no knockdowns that way. Eximus are just big shiney health+energy+reload packs (or blind bombs or power boosts) and are just fun enemies I can actually hit a little and style on cause of their expanded health.

2 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Impact Changes:
Stagger Status Effect Changes: 

• Reduced the maximum amount of stacks from 10 to 5.
• Increased the Mercy Threshold from 4% to 8% per stack. 

Functionally, this allows for players to trigger early Mercy kills with less stacks required!

Now if only you'd allow mercy to just work even as the enemy levels go higher, rather than having the threshold get decreased gradually... Can these impact procs raise the threshold flatly so even at stupid high levels (in the thousands, mainly only in circuit in my case) the 10% threshold can still be like 50% when they're procced up making it more useful?

Edited July 24, 2023 by Darkmega18

[MaxTunnerX]

I was kinda scared when I saw the new incarnons as I never wanted to go to SP circuit again (not even for the old ones I didnt get yet), but then I saw cavalero sells them, so Im relieved. Ill take plat grind over SP circuit any day. Also random buff to frost and everything else with cold damage, which is also nice.

[Do_High_Go]

13 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

0.5% extra crit multiplier after mods from cold procs isn't significant. Viral multiplies your damage by 3x. Why would someone build cold for this? All it does is give epitaph primers a little extra damage.

Read this post for some reasonable balanced ideas:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1360670-about-time-we-make-other-status-effects-relevant-to-promote-build-and-weapon-diversity-and-other-improvements/

 

You...... are aware you can have both Cold status and Viral on the same enemy right ? Or do you use only a single weapon while piloting Inaros like Ever?

These "reasonable" and "balanced" ideas, are with all due respect - a big ol serving of nothingburger that the autor tailored to what they want instead of what the game needs. Their cold proposition is just more crits, you now will get that with Puncture, but with the added benefit, that it is actually Reasonable.

The Blast idea is outright wtf, once again asking for more of the broken thing that causes the disbalance of the element usage.... extremely biased by the author praying for a universal "viral" like effect, it is far from reasonable and balanced. So sad.

The puncture suggestion is basically a "cheeky" way for the author to creep up back to full strip with corrosive heat setup on a weapon that will occasionally proc Puncture. Not original, it is just weaker corrosive and simply unreasonable. Also didn't you just complain that cold is damage increase but viral is too so cold is worse. By your own logic that Puncture suggestion should not be something you praise.

The Impact is .... Corrosive but for shields, but worse, but magnetic exists and increases your damage by 3x so noone will use it right? Bruh.

All that is followed by a sad ask to reduce cost of rolling rivens... like really, as if. Oh and the Sentinel idea, aside of the Regen resetting (which is not reasonable or balanced once again) is literally already a mod called Hard Reset, tho it requires like 5 Mercy Kills or smth, I guess that is not braindead enough for the author.

Your judgement of "Reasonable" and "Balanced" is kind of off, smells of hypocrisy. Tell your friend/alt to try harder in the next one ^^

[IDystopiaI]

23 hours ago, Darkmega18 said:

roll. don't jump. More damage resistance and no knockdowns that way. Eximus are just big shiney health+energy+reload packs (or blind bombs or power boosts) and are just fun enemies I can actually hit a little and style on cause of their expanded health.

Eximus already drop health/energy/ammo regardless of the method used to kill them. It's also generally slower to kill enemies with mercy kills than it is with weapons/abilities, and in game modes where you need high kills/sec going for mercy kills is detrimental.  

The Impact and Mercy kills are entirely useless against certain enemies as well such as Demolysts and Bosses. Impact Status needs to be made useful against a broad range of enemies and not limited to the subset of only Heavy Units/Eximus.

Edited July 25, 2023 by IDystopiaI

[KitMeHarder]

Pretty good changes, but RIP Felarx enjoyers.

[(PSN)BdotRASS]

The incarnon pay-to-win is super sucky.

[Petroklos]

These all look like good changes but I have some quick feedback:

I don't like that some Procs are limited to 5 whereas others are limited to 10. It feels like insted of wanting to build to new Puncture we'll just be covered by any incidental Puncture Procs.

Impact is already amazing against Grineer Eximus, as by the 10th (now 5th) Proc the moment their Overguard is gone I can go for the Mercy Kill. But against Corpus Eximus it still doesn't work. It should be that Corpus Eximus can be Mercied at 100% Health with Impact Procs moving that Mercy Threshold to include their Shields, 20% per Impact Procs up to 100% Shields at 5. So, like Grineer Units, pump them full of Impact during their Overguard and instantly Mercy them when it's gone.

Please look at Blast next, it's so bad and uninspiring!

That's all, looking forward to the Update!

[Xopek_Lesnoy]

Can't help but notice that impact has less and less identity with each update. From the Hemorrhage/Internal bleeding to one of Bo's final incarnon evolutions, where it's just used to summon slash.
Using it for mercy kills are mainly the newer players, who see eximus units as a genuine threat or people dipping their toes into endurance/SP, where eximus actually become this threat, until eventually succumbing to just bigger damage numbers.
The changes will do nothing to primarily impact weapons, since the status cap would be reached almost instantly anyway, while the weapons where impact is one of the supporting elements would be more likely to get the full benefit of it without even trying. 

[Bluemillion]

Damage types other than viral/slash/heat aren't going to catch on until you do something about the absurd enemy armor scaling.

"Just use armor stripping!" Sure, viral is now even MORE effective against grineer!

[Darkmega18]

12 minutes ago, IDystopiaI said:

Eximus already drop health/ammo regardless of the method used to kill them. It's also generally slower to kill enemies with mercy kills than it is with weapons/abilities, and in game modes where you need high kills/sec going for mercy kills is detrimental.  

The Impact and Mercy kills are entirely usless against certain enemies as well such as Demolysts and Bosses. Impact Status needs to be made useful against a broad range of enemies and not limited to the subset of only Heavy Units/Eximus.

Yes, they do, but why not double? warframe people are all about the excess after-all. also it's not like you're killing every single enemy with mercy. Only true high kill per second is steel path when the enemies are being stingy in survival but the LS tanks are there for a reason regardless. The rest can probably just get CC'd and dealt with leisurely if you play smartly in most other modes.

Eximus and heavy units are the units that actually matter. they're the ones who're likely to end you with their heavy damage and sponge up your time being annoying and tanky. so why not focus on deleting them so you can go back to picking on little guys?

Edited July 24, 2023 by Darkmega18

[(PSN)Adeak]

2 hours ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Weakened Status Effect Additions:

• Increases Critical Chance threshold on enemy by 5% per Stack, to a maximum of 25% at 5 Stacks. This is additive after Mods, not before. Does not apply to Abilities or AOE damage. 

Just so we're clear, is this saying that Abilities and AoEs won't benefit from the increased crit chance, or that puncture procs they cause won't include it? I would think the former, but I also tend to overthink.

1 hour ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Glad with the Stats changes tho i doubt people will feel tempted to shift to them as slash still deals True damage and is used by the community for level cap stuff.

Damage numbers thing is something iv been wanting to see for a wile now so thanks.

Any chance this could be addressed too?

I just want Mending Unity to be made Way-Bound.

1 hour ago, (PSN)Cyber_Chroma_ said:

Pro tip to get to the simulacrum a bit faster: go to the syndicate console in your orbiter, tab over to the section with Teshin and Simaris, and then click the prompt to visit Simaris in the relay. This completely bypasses all of the navigation menu selections, the relay entry animation, and having to fast travel to Simaris from the relay entrance. You just get a short loading screen and then boom, you’re there. 

Can we also have this for the "Visit Maroo" button in the Ayatan Treasures menu? I mean, we can already do this with Varzia in the Relic segment and they're basically right next to each other, but it would be convenient.

38 minutes ago, IDystopiaI said:

Impact Procs cause the enemies to Flail around significantly more when they are at the cap which is currently 10. Lowering the cap to 5 will just make this flailing more common and make it harder to aim at enemies. Here are some examples showing the difference between hitting an enemy below the Impact Proc Cap, and at the Impact Proc Cap:

Below 10 Impact Procs

At 10 Impact Procs

Does it scale with the raw number of stacks, or with how close we are to max?

[Numerounius]

11 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Pretty good changes, but RIP Felarx enjoyers.

Why? Nothing here affects Felarx negatively.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

2 hours ago, (NSW)BIGFO0T said:

This is just a nerf to impact damage. Literally no one uses impact for finishers as literally no one relys on finishers—single target kills—to accomplish anything outside of niche meme builds that get dumpstered by meta builds that clear entire rooms with one button. What a garbage change do yall even play this game outside of streams?

you been buffed, this change is especially good against elites that limit stacks, for other enemies its a improved side grade

[Traumtulpe]

Wow, I'm kinda shocked actually to see these damage types... deal damage. Jokes aside, the 50% flat crit damage on Cold is negligible (but 90 slow is very powerful), as weapons often have 500-800% critical damage already, the 25% flat crit on Puncture however will be extremely welcome on weapons that lack critical chance to begin with! This will significantly improve some unpopular weapons.

Impact is still not something I ever want to see on any weapon though. Deals no damage to armor, makes headshots harder. I don't do parazon stuff because it's slow and ineffective, and the camera wobbles around like my warframe is drunk.

[Azamagon]

The damage numbers and player Overguard changes are looking real nice!

Now, on to the new "meta" stuff, the new status changes.

Impact

• Making quicker Mercy kills is nice. It still remains a niche benefit, but it's not a bad upgrade.
• I still think Impact feels like an underwhelming type though. If it had some bonus that was still "allrounder", but was still slightly better against Corpus, I think that'd be great. For example:
  • In addition, its status also increases weakpoint/headshot damage by 15% + 5% per extra proc (Max 60% - numbers can of course be reduced). This bonus stacks additively to their natural damage bonus on weakspots.
    • For example, if an enemy suffers 2x damage on headshots, it will suffer 2,6x damage on headshots if it has 10 Impact procs on it.
  • Furthermore, when under the effect of Impact status, an enemy's entire body will be considered a weakspot! With that, Impact would be a genuinely useful booster, despite it making enemies flail around.
    • This means, bodyshotting enemies with 10 Impact procs would deal 1,6x damage instead of just 1x.
    • Potentially - although this is likely a bit much power? - everything that counts as headshots (mods, arcanes, Incarnon charge up etc) could potentially now be working on ALL weakspots (not just headshots) - which would INCLUDE the "whole-body-as-a-weakspot" feature of Impact procs!

Puncture

• Why do you insist on keeping the weakening effect? While Impact isn't amazing, its stagger does a temporary 100% weakening, due to stunning the target (same goes for the stuns from Electric and Heat btw). In fact, Puncture's debuff is even a bit counterproductive: Enemy damage is useful to build up certain Defenses (Iron Skin, Snow Globe etc). For that purpose, Puncture is a detriment, not a benefit. Meanwhile, its intended use, to keep us alive, enemies very quickly reach levels of oneshotting us - Puncture isn't gonna help with that very much. Stacking Puncture is slow, hard to get benefit from and it doesn't do a good enough job (something Impact procs do better at ONE proc, btw)
• The new critchance bonus is... definitely not terrible, but not groundbreaking either. It's at least reasonably and somewhat thematic, I'll give it that (finding weakspots = easier to crits. I guess it makes sense?)
• However, considering what its damagetype is, why haven't you tried to delve into a niche that fits it and make it truly worth building for? I.e. something to help against the armored enemies of Warframe in a different way from Corrosive? For example:
  • Instead of its current status effect(s), its procs now causes all damage dealt to the target to deal additional true damage, equal to 8% + 3% more per extra proc (max 35% 20%). This also works for DoTs, including those that might already be present prior to the Puncture proc application.  This bonus also benefits the Puncture-triggering attack.

Sidenote: It's kinda jarring that slashing- a method of attacking which is historically known to be TERRIBLE against armor - is THE anti-armor proc in this game, while puncturing (i.e. piercing, like using the pike on warhammers, such as on the Bec de Corbin) - a damage method which is historically known to be GREAT against armor- has NOTHING against armor whatsoever?!

Cold

• Quicker and better slowdown is nice, no doubt.
• The critdamage bonus here feels a little bit tacked on, not gonna lie. Tip: Many games do something that feels very intuitive in regards to Cold status effects: Bonus PHYSICAL damage. That could've been an easy addition. For example:
  • In addition, this proc also increases physical damage (Slash, Puncture and Impact) by 36% + 8% per extra proc (Max 90% bonus). Impact gains 2x of this bonus. Has no effect on Slash-DoTs.
  • That said, critdamage is more universally useful, compared to a physical damagebonus, so it has that at least?

 

ALL MY NITPICKY WHINING ASIDE: I'm glad that Cold and Puncture will at least do SOMETHING offensively useful now (even it is very marginal, especially compared to procs like Heat, Slash and Viral).

Now if at least Blast, Magnetic and enemy armor (capping their armor, perhaps?) also could get a good look at, that'd be swell!

Sidenote: The Incarnon evolutions which causes 2000% damage on NON-crits - Can these get an added function of NOT benefitting from external critchance buffs - the new Puncture-crit-chance-bonus included?

(For a more thorough delve into status procs and enemy defenses, here's a thorough list of changes I think would be nice:)

 

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

1 hour ago, VladYvhv said:

I think people complaining about it being a nerf are the ones using impact procs for the "convert impact procs to slash procs" mods. In that sense, it's a nerf.

thats done in the initial damage calculation, the conversion still happens even at cap. the cap is the lingering impact "effect" it does make the target immune to the status. if i recall at cap new procs refresh the duration

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

1 hour ago, IDystopiaI said:

Impact Procs cause the enemies to Flail around significantly more when they are at the cap which is currently 10. Lowering the cap to 5 will just make this flailing more common and make it harder to aim at enemies. Here are some examples showing the difference between hitting an enemy below the Impact Proc Cap, and at the Impact Proc Cap:

Below 10 Impact Procs

At 10 Impact Procs

Test is poorly set up. Like you're not proccing much Impact in that first test (you get like 2 procs top, and almost immediately kill the enemy), so of course they won't stagger as much, because you're not getting the procs that stagger them. It's not a consequence of the cap, it's a consequence of just proccing Impact.

[KitMeHarder]

16 minutes ago, XHADgaming said:

Why? Nothing here affects Felarx negatively.

Puncture will now force you to have 25% additive crit chance (think Avenger). The Felarx's normal firing mode is 36% puncture (and you typically built it somewhat for status). 

That means now with only 5 puncture procs, you'll proc Devastating Attrition's 2000% damage buff less than 3/4's the amount of the time you do currently.

Edited July 24, 2023 by KitMeHarder

[(XBOX)Neo Overdrive]

Was looking forward to getting the Bo and the Latron adaptors, you saying I have to wait ANOTHER week? xD Kinda annoyed tbh

 

[Tiltskillet]

2 minutes ago, Azamagon said:

Why do you insist on keeping the weakening effect? While Impact isn't amazing, its stagger does a temporary 100% weakening, due to stunning the target (same goes for the stuns from Electric and Heat btw). In fact, Puncture's debuff is even a bit counterproductive: Enemy damage is useful to build up certain Defenses (Iron Skin, Snow Globe etc). For that purpose, Puncture is a detriment, not a benefit. Meanwhile, its intended use, to keep us alive, enemies very quickly reach levels of oneshotting us - Puncture isn't gonna help with that very much. Stacking Puncture is slow, hard to get benefit from and it doesn't do a good enough job (something Impact procs do better at ONE proc, btw)

The nice thing about Puncture's debuff compared to most of the CC-based damage reductions is it applies to many targets that are immune to the latter.

I'm not saying it's great.  But it's biggest problem to me is that it's kind of invisible.  Even when people are playing the kind of content and frames where they're benefiting from it, they won't really be aware that they're benefiting.  Blast's accuracy debuff has the same issue.  (But doesn't affect a lot of enemy attacks, so is even worse.)

3 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

Puncture will now force you to have 25% additive crit chance (think Avenger). The Felarx's normal firing mode is 36% puncture (and you typically built it somewhat for status). 

Oh, dang, I didn't even think about Devastating/Devouring Attrition. Those perks will still be ridiculous, but it makes the puncture change just a little bittersweet.

[BiancaRoughfin]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Adeak said:

I just want Mending Unity to be made Way-Bound.

I really dont think it should, i would rather DE explored the affinity range gimmick with more support abilities so some frames can ease on range builds and allow them to widen their usefulness, this would give more value towards players actually using Vazarin. Example Nekro`s Desecrate that forces players into full range builds to reach as far as possible with Desecrate which in turn makes it harder for Nekros to build for strength and duration which could be useful for his other abilities or subsumed abilities.