PSA PSA: Heirloom Collection Platinum Changes & Lessons

[Darkbring]

4 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Yes, and that they're Deluxe skins. As much as DE fluffs them up in their marketing, there is no difference in any measurable way between these and any of the other Deluxe skins in the game. And while Deluxe skins were once time limited, that was only for a short while 8 years ago! It's been so long since we last had time limited exclusive Deluxe skins I'm now an uncle with nieces entering school! And Deluxe skins have never been cash only, even when released as big-ticket items in Supporter packs.

By rough count there are what... 54 Deluxe skins before these? So is it really so surprising that people who have had 8 years to get used to the way these items are always sold are surprised when that suddenly changes and goes in the complete opposite direction? And when people always push back on FOMO, exclusivity, and cash-only offerings no matter how big or small they are, I'm more surprised that there are people who still can't predict the community's response to these kinds of things.

 

I don't think "cash only" is even close to being that big of a deal, specifically because people can get the cash and buy them later. Prime cosmetics (except for a few) are cash only, and so are Tennogen skins. Does it suck that they are cash only when they don't have to be? Kinda, but that's not even close to the use of FOMO tactics, at least on my personal bullS#&$ scale. Oh, and Tennogen probably will remain cash only because that way DE doesn't have to get involved in the revenue split process, or disclose their selling figures to the artists for revenue split calculations.

[Darkbring]

Just now, Cerikus said:

I don' think you are right about looking at your character. Majority of your cosmetics are very visible in PoE. Some of them augment how your HUD looks. Some are very distinctive decorations for your Hideout, some are very significant animations or colorful effects that are visible on your character at all times. In PoE you don't actually see your character in the gear menu...

You don't like the supporter packs or the stash tabs?

 

The packs. Stash is less of a problem, at least to me. 

[Cerikus]

1 minute ago, Darkbring said:

The packs. Stash is less of a problem, at least to me. 

I guess because of them being availabe for one season and then they are gone?

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

for me at least, I find the 10 Year Accolade is THE issue that is extremely disingenuous to every player who have been actively contributing to the financial success of DE throughout the past 10 years.

I'm pretty understanding when it comes to issues people have even if they don't pertain to me specifically, but I admit the accolade one, like you bring up, was kind of tough for me to comprehend. But, see, I was thinking it was "hey, I'm supporting THIS GAME that's been around for 10 years" -- which, what's wrong with THAT? -- instead of "hey, I'VE supported this game for 10 years" -- which is what it clearly reads in player's profiles. Indeed duplicitous.

[Darkbring]

27 minutes ago, Cerikus said:

I guess because of them being availabe for one season and then they are gone?

Yes, I don't like FOMO tactics being used in general, but especially in an online game with a limited lifespan. If there are actual reasons for it, like when there is a temporary collab between two companies, that's still somewhat tolerable. But when there is no reason for it other than to get a quick cash grab, that's just disgusting. And the Heirloom packs just reek with how many different tactics besides FOMO they used to guarantee this thing would sell and bring in money.

10 steps forward, 1 step back

Price inflation via in-game currencies

Very limited options

High price floor

"10 years supporter" Acolade being sold instead of earned

New cosmetic item type being introduced

Advertisement during THE biggest event since Warframe appeared

Cash only purchase

In-game encouragement via resurgence

Pack release post Frost buff via overgate

A "generous" amount of time given for purchase, that just so happens to expire at the end of the year

This is something only a desperate or greedy company would do, and DE is far from being desperate.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Darkbring

[PublikDomain]

3 hours ago, Darkbring said:

I don't think "cash only" is even close to being that big of a deal, specifically because people can get the cash and buy them later. Prime cosmetics (except for a few) are cash only, and so are Tennogen skins. Does it suck that they are cash only when they don't have to be? Kinda, but that's not even close to the use of FOMO tactics, at least on my personal bullS#&$ scale. Oh, and Tennogen probably will remain cash only because that way DE doesn't have to get involved in the revenue split process, or disclose their selling figures to the artists for revenue split calculations.

People can only get the cash to buy these later until December, and then they're gone forever. That and all of the marketing that says these skins are part of a "celebration", but it's super tacky if the only people DE's willing to "celebrate" with are people who can can/will give them cash. You also can't buy just one skin or buy just the cosmetics without the premium currency filler, premium currency these packs themselves continue to show isn't going to always be honored. Those compounding issues make the cash-only aspect far worse.

And then you gotta ask, why cash-only? If you price out the skins and they end up idk let's just say $30 for the pair, what's the difference between me using $30 to buy the skins with cash and me using $30 to buy the skins with plat? Either way I've spent the same $30. Why is the $30 I spent just this July no longer good enough? Why is the $30 someone spent and then traded to a F2P player no longer good enough? And why do I now need to pay cash for Deluxe skins when last year I could pay cash or use plat for the Deluxe skins in the New War Supporter packs? All plat has always already come from a cash purchase. The only thing cash-only does is exclude players who can't pay with new cash.

As for the rest, Prime cosmetics aren't skins, and the skin comes with the frame itself for free. Prime skins are also based on the base skin which makes the details compatible with other base skins like Immortal and Tennogen. There's a marked technical difference between a Prime skin and a Deluxe. These aren't Prime skins nor are they Prime Accessories.

And while Tennogen is cash-only too, they're at least cash-only for a reason the community has accepted. The revenue split with community artists gives them a really good pass, though as we've seen on consoles being cash-only isn't actually necessary. They're also much more affordable at only $7. You could buy these 2 Deluxe skins at their cheapest available price point, or 10 Tennogen skins.

[Darkbring]

2 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

People can only get the cash to buy these later until December, and then they're gone forever. That and all of the marketing that says these skins are part of a "celebration", but it's super tacky if the only people DE's willing to "celebrate" with are people who can can/will give them cash. You also can't buy just one skin or buy just the cosmetics without the premium currency filler, premium currency these packs themselves continue to show isn't going to always be honored. Those compounding issues make the cash-only aspect far worse.

And then you gotta ask, why cash-only? If you price out the skins and they end up idk let's just say $30 for the pair, what's the difference between me using $30 to buy the skins with cash and me using $30 to buy the skins with plat? Either way I've spent the same $30. Why is the $30 I spent just this July no longer good enough? Why is the $30 someone spent and then traded to a F2P player no longer good enough? And why do I now need to pay cash for Deluxe skins when last year I could pay cash or use plat for the Deluxe skins in the New War Supporter packs? All plat has always already come from a cash purchase. The only thing cash-only does is exclude players who can't pay with new cash.

As for the rest, Prime cosmetics aren't skins, and the skin comes with the frame itself for free. Prime skins are also based on the base skin which makes the details compatible with other base skins like Immortal and Tennogen. There's a marked technical difference between a Prime skin and a Deluxe. These aren't Prime skins nor are they Prime Accessories.

And while Tennogen is cash-only too, they're at least cash-only for a reason the community has accepted. The revenue split with community artists gives them a really good pass, though as we've seen on consoles being cash-only isn't actually necessary. They're also much more affordable at only $7. You could buy these 2 Deluxe skins at their cheapest available price point, or 10 Tennogen skins.

 

Ok? I meant that cosmetics being cash only isn't as big of a deal as FOMO tactics. If something is cash only and you can buy it later, that sucks, but it's tolerable. If something is gone forever after a certain amount of time for no good reason, that's messed up. If these packs were seasonal or timegated (as in, would be released in the game to be purchased by anyone for plat after a certain amount of time), most people wouldn't care about them being cash only. It's specifically the FOMO that multiplies the already existing problems cause all of it will be GONE in 4 months.

[PublikDomain]

2 minutes ago, Darkbring said:

Ok? I meant that cosmetics being cash only isn't as big of a deal as FOMO tactics. If something is cash only and you can buy it later, that sucks, but it's tolerable. If something is gone forever after a certain amount of time for no good reason, that's messed up. If these packs were seasonal or timegated (as in, would be released in the game to be purchased by anyone for plat after a certain amount of time), most people wouldn't care about them being cash only. It's specifically the FOMO that multiplies the already existing problems cause all of it will be GONE in 4 months.

Ah, I see. Well I think both are pretty equally terrible. I don't see a need to weigh bad things when both are bad and should be avoided. Something being more egregious doesn't make the other egregious thing any more acceptable. A brick may weigh less than a cinderblock but both are gonna hurt if you drop one on your foot.

[kamisama85]

The fact that even the most veteran forum posters who always rally against DE for bad game design, P2W, greedy money schemes, and "voting with our wallets", already bought the pack within the first week despite joining other posters in their outcries, should tell you just how shallow the sentiment was for this in the first place.

This is why the opposition will never have any real weight in these conversations. Commitment is more flimsy than the old corpus airlock window.

[LuckyCharm]

As someone who has played poe on and off since release, their monetization is a ton more fair than warframes. The only "power" they sell you is bank space. And those go on sale at least once a month. Everything else in the shop is entirely cosmetic. None of this paying to skip grind, buying power, buying currency to trade for power etc. On top of that, the cash shop stuff carries over from season to season so you can always use it. Bought some bank space about 5 years ago. Its still there. Its a game id actually pay to support since they do update much more than warframe does and the league changes add more gameplay changes than warframes do. But once again, their supporter packs are still entirely cosmetic but they dont nickel and dime you for stuff like forma bundles, catalysts, weapon slots and all the rest of the nonsense wf already does. Just my 2c since i saw yall talking bout it. 

If i was gonna spend 100usd supporting this game you better believe id expect something pretty special. Like a warframe skin that can be used on all frames, or a set of universal weapon skins for the different categories like melee, secondary and primary. Not just 2 skins for 2 frames. And some currency. 

[Katinka]

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

And while Tennogen is cash-only too, they're at least cash-only for a reason the community has accepted. The revenue split with community artists gives them a really good pass, though as we've seen on consoles being cash-only isn't actually necessary. They're also much more affordable at only $7. You could buy these 2 Deluxe skins at their cheapest available price point, or 10 Tennogen skins.

IIRC Tennogen is cash only on PC because of how it was originally set up through Steam Workshop.  For Tennogen to exist DE needed a system for submissions and Steam had that system ready and available, so a deal was struck but a deal that only covered PC sales.  I am curious what will happen with this with cross-save though.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

Anyone else hearing an Echo?

It's like someone said something back on page 20 or 30, and we're hearing it Echo through pages 40 and 50 and 60 and 70. It has fooled nobody, and won't whether this gets to 100 pages or not.

 

Also just an FYI, the very first post in this thread is the "answer" everyone has started saying they're waiting around for over the last 30 or so pages. Just because it's not the one you want, doesn't change it from being an answer. 

 

Normally this is where I'd say there's no point in replying to this post as I won't be reading it. Not out of intentional ignorance, but scanning through the last 30 pages of this farce of a thread has left me with renewed disinterest. However we all know there's always one who can't help themselves. I'd wonder which one of the 4 or 5 people who are keeping this thread going out of stubbornness it'll be, but it really doesn't matter. Just like the subject matter.

 

Carry on.

[PublikDomain]

3 minutes ago, Katinka said:

IIRC Tennogen is cash only on PC because of how it was originally set up through Steam Workshop.  For Tennogen to exist DE needed a system for submissions and Steam had that system ready and available, so a deal was struck but a deal that only covered PC sales.  I am curious what will happen with this with cross-save though.

I'm curious as well... IIRC DE has said that premium currency will stay on the platform it's on, so you couldn't buy plat on PC and spend it on PS for example. And that makes sense. But you could buy plat on PC, then buy idk an Arcane Energize, and then sell that on PS? And what if I buy plat on PS, then buy a Deluxe skin for plat, then transfer to PC? Cross-trade is gonna make things weird.

7 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Carry on.

And we will despite the naysaying.

[Voltage]

1 hour ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Anyone else hearing an Echo?

It's like someone said something back on page 20 or 30, and we're hearing it Echo through pages 40 and 50 and 60 and 70. It has fooled nobody, and won't whether this gets to 100 pages or not.

Honestly, I've echoed things personally for half a decade or more. If the echo has merit, then it's good to keep people well-informed and showcase the scope of those affected. I do enjoy reading this topic and seeing the information posted related to this.

1 hour ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Also just an FYI, the very first post in this thread is the "answer" everyone has started saying they're waiting around for over the last 30 or so pages. Just because it's not the one you want, doesn't change it from being an answer. 

The removal of Trials hit page 99. So what. We're on the Forums, not a read-only text file.

1 hour ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Normally this is where I'd say there's no point in replying to this post as I won't be reading it. Not out of intentional ignorance, but scanning through the last 30 pages of this farce of a thread has left me with renewed disinterest. However we all know there's always one who can't help themselves. I'd wonder which one of the 4 or 5 people who are keeping this thread going out of stubbornness it'll be, but it really doesn't matter. Just like the subject matter.

It does matter. Just like Regal Aya, this topic will serve as excellent reference material until Warframe shuts down its servers. The point of history is to examine, learn, and not repeat shortcomings.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Voltage

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Honestly, I've echoed things personally for half a decade or more. If the echo has merit, then it's good to keep people well-informed and showcase the scope of those affected. I do enjoy reading this topic and seeing the information posted related to this.

The removal of Trials hit page 99. So what. We're on the Forums, not a read-only text file.

It does matter. Just like Regal Aya, this topic will serve as excellent reference material until Warframe shuts down its servers. The point of history is to examine, learn, and not repeat shortcomings.

Exactly this and every action they do from now on will be recorded untill the end of the game probably in the year 2080 and hopefully along the way they stop making these mistakes

[Lion]

3 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Anyone else hearing an Echo?

It's like someone said something back on page 20 or 30, and we're hearing it Echo through pages 40 and 50 and 60 and 70. It has fooled nobody, and won't whether this gets to 100 pages or not.

 

Also just an FYI, the very first post in this thread is the "answer" everyone has started saying they're waiting around for over the last 30 or so pages. Just because it's not the one you want, doesn't change it from being an answer. 

 

Normally this is where I'd say there's no point in replying to this post as I won't be reading it. Not out of intentional ignorance, but scanning through the last 30 pages of this farce of a thread has left me with renewed disinterest. However we all know there's always one who can't help themselves. I'd wonder which one of the 4 or 5 people who are keeping this thread going out of stubbornness it'll be, but it really doesn't matter. Just like the subject matter.

 

Carry on.

Pretty much. I fully expect this to fizzle out, course has been set. DE has had plenty of time to comment and are choosing to stay silent so at this point it's safe to say things won't change. 

 

I guess it's time for people to either come to terms with it, regardless of whether they buy or don't buy it. 

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

6 minutes ago, Lion said:

Pretty much. I fully expect this to fizzle out, course has been set. DE has had plenty of time to comment and are choosing to stay silent so at this point it's safe to say things won't change. 

 

I guess it's time for people to either come to terms with it, regardless of whether they buy or don't buy it. 

Oh I've come to terms with DE and their shame spiral for some time now but that won't stop me from voicing my discontent.  After this marketing blunder I can't imagine they will say anything else on the subject, else they will have to admit even more wrong-doing and that is probably squashed by the powers that be holding their proverbial financial purse strings.

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

[Anmorata_Armitage]

The silence from DE is deafening.  They clearly don't want to correct the issue in a proconsumer way.  Throwing more in game currency at the problem didn't solve it and wasn't remotely what was desired from the community.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Anmorata_Armitage

[(XBOX)LadyWinterstorm]

17 hours ago, Binket_ said:

DE's local Voldemort. Hired to be the scourge of all that is good.
The one who makes all of the bad ideas and the rest of the crew has to fight them back.

They wear a cape that covered in paint, a stupid-looking bucket helmet and is armed with a variety of vials that contains fortune-cookie nonsense.

Got a TV show right there 😂

What if they sold all the contents of the pack individually for Regal Aya (Except the Glyph since you can't buy the prime Glyphs individually). This would allow people who only want some of the pack to get what they want. Wasn't that the whole point of regal over accessories pack the ability to choose.

[PollexMessier]

32 minutes ago, Anmorata_Armitage said:

The silence from DE is deafening.  They clearly don't want to correct the issue in a proconsumer way.  Throwing more in game currency at the problem didn't solve it and wasn't remotely what was desired from the community.

I have a feeling there's some severe internal conflicts going on with this one. Some members of DE are probably fighting with the higher ups to allow them to make the right call.

It is a bit infuriating the amount of time they're taking to make a real response, and all we're getting is a bunch of silent topic mergers which... are really annoying. Especially because the longer they take, the more people buy the pack and the bigger of an excuse they have to not actually do anything about it. But there's probably a huge amount of internal debate happening that's causing the silence, more than them just hiding from the problem they created.

Edited September 7, 2023 by PollexMessier

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 2 horas, Anmorata_Armitage dijo:

The silence from DE is deafening.  They clearly don't want to correct the issue in a proconsumer way.  Throwing more in game currency at the problem didn't solve it and wasn't remotely what was desired from the community.

Possibly a tencent decision. 

------------------------
The Fomo from before was simple things, an ugly syandana, an ugly weapon skin and so on. The fact that the price was definitely more affordable left no complaints in the first place.
But wow, what a surprise, after Tencent bought Leyou the monetization it has become more aggressive... oh wow.

The Chinese just think differently. I don't know if you ever saw how Changyou monetized, they technically sold everything for cash, from warframes to weapons.

 

It is very possible that they will continue with the same monetization. They are Chinese. This game earns more than enough money only with the Chinese server.

Edited September 8, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

32 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

I have a feeling there's some severe internal conflicts going on with this one. Some members of DE are probably fighting with the higher ups to allow them to make the right call.

It is a bit infuriating the amount of time they're taking to make a real response, and all we're getting is a bunch of silent topic mergers which... are really annoying. Especially because the longer they take, the more people buy the pack and the bigger of an excuse they have to not actually do anything about it. But there's probably a huge amount of internal debate happening that's causing the silence, more than them just hiding from the problem they created.

Then we should make it more easy for the higher ups to choose the right choice by talking with our wallets if we get enough people to stop buying platinum and shop items and there profit margins go down they'll be more enclined to listen to what we want which is a 4th pack with only the cosmetics and skins without all the platinum and regal aya filler which would be 25 to 30 dollars (this would be more profitable for them as well making it so a lot more people can afford and buy the pack)

[Lionsheart89]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)toughdragon17 said:

Then we should make it more easy for the higher ups to choose the right choice by talking with our wallets if we get enough people to stop buying platinum and shop items and there profit margins go down they'll be more enclined to listen to what we want which is a 4th pack with only the cosmetics and skins without all the platinum and regal aya filler which would be 25 to 30 dollars (this would be more profitable for them as well making it so a lot more people can afford and buy the pack)

I'm sitting on a 50% coupon praying that they make a wise decision in the next 48 hours. 😅 I'd hate to see it go to waste, but I will let it go if need be. That would be the right thing to do, at least for me, if they choose to do nothing.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Lionsheart89

[Karonuva]

I have played this game for thousands of hours and monetarily supported it in the past through discount plat purchases, prime accessories and tennogen, but as I've said on the subreddit as well -- this is inexcusable. 10th year anniversary and you use it as an excuse to shove overpriced FOMO cosmetics down people's throat? What happened to not squeezing the playerbase for all they're worth? This whole thing is embarrassing, and insulting. The fact these skins or at least the accolade aren't earnable in game as an anniversary gift, or AT LEAST purchasable separately (for plat or otherwise) AND aren't available every anniversary is frankly appalling. Gatekeeping "player appreciation" items through whaling? Real nice.

The response given ignoring the biggest issue while acting like you're "learning a lesson" and "listening to feedback" brings me Bungie flashbacks in the worst ways. I have dealt with this garbage once before in destiny 1, stopped playing that game then and considering the radio silence after the one mealy mouthed response that was only meant to placate those who already bought it, I have decided to stop playing Warframe entirely and uninstall the game. You have managed to piss away all good will in one greedy action, and I have no reason to believe it'll be rectified nor that it won't get worse in the future.

I hope more people do the same, because where this road leads always comes at the expense of the players and the game itself. Cut your losses as early as possible, you'll thank yourselves.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Karonuva

[Shadedraxe]

On 2023-08-30 at 9:47 PM, Niinyy said:

is this your first time seeing stuff limited? it is a common thing, it is meant to be exclusive, legacy, something for supporters of the game, something you can show off. 

battlepasses in fortnite, overwatch, cod. those are exclusive and limited

gamersupps sell special edition limited with content creators imprints on them

youtooz sell limited figures of content creators

Its not something that D.E sudddenly made up

so stop crying your eyeballs out, they're becoming dry.
 

Bro... that is... not a good take. Being compliant of predatory practices because "enough companies do it now-a-days"? This isn't a matter of maturity, this is a matter of calling out BullS#&$. You don't need to speak up if you're shy or not as willing, but at least respect those that do. Other players/customers have your best interests at heart, massive Triple AAA video game conglomerates DO NOT.

I don't play most of those games for those very reasons. Warframe has always been an exception for me in the freemium market. While it's crossed the line just a little bit on occasion, for the most part I felt the game respected my time and money compared to many others like it. I've supported this game from the beginning. I saw a lot of promise in it. I still do. I've spent a lot of money on this game willingly because I wanted to support the devs, and while Prime packs aren't worth the cost either. Sometimes it felt justified because of how much DE has given me over the years.

But this heirloom stuff, I'm not willing to support it. It's a potential for more changes like it to come, and that's why so many of us are sharing our concerns and speaking up. We don't want warframe to become like those other games. Warframe has had miner exclusives before (with the exception of the founders pack, that was in no way minor. But at least DE remedied that with Umbra to some extent), and some not so great monetizations (like regal aya). But the devs have shown their concerns and listened to us over the years.
I know they care, and obviously the pricing and greed behind the heirloom packs wasn't their doing. I don't blame the developers. It came from higher ups in the chain. From the people that don't really listen, which is why we gotta cry out hard enough, okay?
 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Shadedraxe