It's time to break the 3 Weapons limitation

[--F--NerevarCM]

No. Don't even need to elaborate. If you think about this for 5 minutes, you can see its a horrible idea

[(NSW)Greybones]

It’s an understandable desire, at least

[crazywolfpusher]

37 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I meant to remove the word "encouraging" in my answer. Like so:

"For me this is a case of a limitation creating more interesting choices than loosening up the limitation would."

I don't understand what your second sentence has to do with anything I said though. 

Sorry I was trying to say that having to virtually choose among hundreds of weapons (when only a tiny number it's good/meta) is way less interesting than being able to carry the good ones, the less good ones and maybe the bad ones, for flavor, for fashion, for whatever reason, is far more interesting.

 

34 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Not to mention the game is designed for three weapons, and has fundamental systems designed around it like enemy damage type weakness/resistances; just because you opt to blow any semblance of balance away doesn’t mean it’s not there, and part of the decision behind making a loadout hinges on that in-mission balance (or desire to avoid the in-mission balance, in your case)

Changing weapons in missions that can have enemies of multiple factions would be a good thing. Carrying more than 3 weapons wouldn't change the 'difficulty'. You still would be able to choose the right weapon for the right target. Only difference is that you are now able to do it inside missions.

I don't think there is any balance though. 

26 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Out of curiosity, @crazywolfpusher, are you someone who does endurance runs for huge amounts of time?

I no longer play missions for more than 1 hour. Hell, 5 minutes and things already start to get boring. 

 

21 minutes ago, BroDutt said:

You want us to clutter the wheel selection? On PC those shortcut can be mitigated.

I'm pretty sure DE can work around the buttons limitations. We already have a wheel-inventory.

 

19 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Problem: 

That'll allow people to carry Kuva Zarr + Shedu/Sporelacer + Phenmor 

Can only use 1 at the time. What's the problem? Active gameplay, wide variety of weapons, sounds like fun. Enemies are not gonna die faster than they currently do.

 

12 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

Huh. I’m kind of surprised at initial pushback on this idea. Normally limits are something Warframe players hate and try their best to avoid, and I figured that an unbound weapon selection would be right in line with that

I still don't get why people hate the idea. 

Is not gonna make the game any easier, there is barely any balance.

might be difficult to implement for DE? so what. Is not like players have to code it.

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by crazywolfpusher

[BroDutt]

3 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

I'm pretty sure DE can work around the buttons limitations. We already have a wheel-inventory.

Did you read the rest of my post? The controller console player didn't have the advantage as keyboard. STOP thinking from your own perspective.

[Tiltskillet]

2 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

Sorry I was trying to say that having to virtually choose among hundreds of weapons (when only a tiny number it's good/meta) is way less interesting than being able to carry the good ones, the less good ones and maybe the bad ones, for flavor, for fashion, for whatever reason, is far more interesting.

Ok.  That's not true for me, but I think I can understand the sentiment.   I do change up weapons all the time, but I just get that variety from playing different missions.

There have been times I've wanted two sidearms or two primaries.  But carrying a dozen weapons in a gear wheel, and not having to think about which weapons I most want to use for a mission just sounds less interesting to me than what we've got.

[crazywolfpusher]

6 minutes ago, BroDutt said:

Did you read the rest of my post? The controller console player didn't have the advantage as keyboard. STOP thinking from your own perspective.

I can think from my perspective, I'm just a player. Why you force to think as some kind of gaming controller designer. Hold your horses. 

Even if was difficult to resolve, is just that, a difficulty that most likely can be sorted.

1 minute ago, Tiltskillet said:

But carrying a dozen weapons in a gear wheel, and not having to think about which weapons I most want to use for a mission just sounds less interesting to me than what we've got.

Maybe we don't need to carry a dozen, how about 6 instead of 3? it's an improvement. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by crazywolfpusher

[--F--NerevarCM]

6 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

Maybe we don't need to carry a dozen, how about 6 instead of 3? it's an improvement. 

We already carry 4. No.

[(NSW)Greybones]

Just now, crazywolfpusher said:

Changing weapons in missions that can have enemies of multiple factions would be a good thing. Carrying more than 3 weapons wouldn't change the 'difficulty'. You still would be able to choose the right weapon for the right target. Only difference is that you are now able to do it inside missions.

I think you’re coming at this from a perspective that sort of forgets why enemies are different in the first place.

If I’ve built a primary for one role, a secondary for another, and a melee for a third (all of this also influenced by the frame I’m using), that means that I’m working with those options and the roles they’re meant for. And then the game does something like throw me a situation where my ranged weapons aren’t going to work as effectively as my melee, but to bring my melee to bear means getting into that dangerzone next to the enemy, and all while the Mobile Defense target is at risk. If I could choose to switch to a completely different primary though, that moment of panic and consideration for things like how I’m going to make it a little safer to get close and how long I can stay there doesn’t get a chance to happen because I just keep my distance. I might as well have brought my level cap SP build to the fight if I wanted to not experience curveballs and the resulting rollercoaster

10 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

I don't think there is any balance though. 

Have you gone looking for it? You may have encountered it while you were first playing because you were forced to.

If you did something like make a secondary weapon as back-up while fighting through a mission, you probably vaguely knew where the balance was in some form. The gun you built as backup technically was designed for higher-level content and was just being taken lower; what higher-level content in particular and what the limits of that build were may have been a mystery, but it was higher than the content you were doing and while full of redundant mods that could have been used for something else, its purpose was to be the Heavy Weapon until such time as you actually got the Heavy Weapon gear item

[crazywolfpusher]

5 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

I think you’re coming at this from a perspective that sort of forgets why enemies are different in the first place.

If I’ve built a primary for one role, a secondary for another, and a melee for a third (all of this also influenced by the frame I’m using), that means that I’m working with those options and the roles they’re meant for. And then the game does something like throw me a situation where my ranged weapons aren’t going to work as effectively as my melee, but to bring my melee to bear means getting into that dangerzone next to the enemy, and all while the Mobile Defense target is at risk. If I could choose to switch to a completely different primary though, that moment of panic and consideration for things like how I’m going to make it a little safer to get close and how long I can stay there doesn’t get a chance to happen because I just keep my distance. I might as well have brought my level cap SP build to the fight if I wanted to not experience curveballs and the resulting rollercoaster

Have you gone looking for it? You may have encountered it while you were first playing because you were forced to.

If you did something like make a secondary weapon as back-up while fighting through a mission, you probably vaguely knew where the balance was in some form. The gun you built as backup technically was designed for higher-level content and was just being taken lower; what higher-level content in particular and what the limits of that build were may have been a mystery, but it was higher than the content you were doing and while full of redundant mods that could have been used for something else, its purpose was to be the Heavy Weapon until such time as you actually got the Heavy Weapon gear item

Enemies are different because there needs to exist variety, how boring would be fight the exact the same enemy for thousands of hours. 

Then enemies need to have different abilities, strengths and weaknesses for the player have a challenge and adapt to them. And here is when things get weird, because this is only true at the very beginning of the game and against some special cases like Acolytes. If I can melt and cut to tiny little pieces every other enemy without having to change my mods, what difference does that I can do the exact same thing with other 5 weapons. Is just flavor, is fun. More reasons to have a huge collections of hundreds of weapons that I can use whenever I want.

 

 

[(NSW)Greybones]

35 minutes ago, crazywolfpusher said:

Enemies are different because there needs to exist variety, how boring would be fight the exact the same enemy for thousands of hours. 

Then enemies need to have different abilities, strengths and weaknesses for the player have a challenge and adapt to them. And here is when things get weird, because this is only true at the very beginning of the game and against some special cases like Acolytes. If I can melt and cut to tiny little pieces every other enemy without having to change my mods, what difference does that I can do the exact same thing with other 5 weapons. Is just flavor, is fun. More reasons to have a huge collections of hundreds of weapons that I can use whenever I want.

 

 

For you, who builds specifically to simplify every fight, maybe. But like I said before the rest of the playerbase are not forced to build like you and thus we already have greater variety of build and gameplay options that we can draw from in the Orbiter with no need to call upon all of the options available in-mission, which would end up being mere clutter anyways if not downright influencing how our fights go.

The choice of build and loadouts happens in the Orbiter, the outcome happens in the mission and it’s the limits imposed that define the experience. And if I’m understanding you correctly, you think that alternative particle effects is what constitutes meaningful choice. While I understand the desire for the gearwheel to behave like the Orbiter, I question your definition of fun and how we achieve it

edit: Don’t get me wrong, thematic can be important. But it’s not the only thing worth considering

double edit: 🤔 Is this best as a “for you” response…? Because it’s not like you’re at odds with the game in general, you just think that the game should allow you to pick alternative particles in-mission instead of in the Orbiter. Which I guess confuses me as to why it’s so important to be able to do so, as if there’s some kind of expectation that it’s the solution to a problem of lack of variety

Edited October 16, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[(NSW)Greybones]

Thinking about it, what problem are you trying to solve again? Lack of variety of in-mission experiences that being able to switch between the entirety of your weapons will solve? I see the original post and was a little confused by the statement of inability to use new equipment

Edited October 16, 2023 by (NSW)Greybones

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I like the innovation, and idea, but think you are overlooking a more obvious and betterer idea, perhaps the bestest idea for Warframe weapons... instead of being limited to 3 weapons, or being limited by a weapon wheel... Why not, introduce Weapon Breeding? Like, I really like the Exergis, but ehhh... Not the best long distance gun. Kuva Chakkhurr though... but the fire rate on both and magazine size... Burston Incarnon though... so what if DE allowed us to cross breed the Exergis and Kuva Chakkhurr, and then let us feed and grow our new Exergakkhurr Hybrid weapon... until its strong enough and evolved enough to then breed with Burston Incarnon, thus creating a "Ultra Exergakkhurr Bursta Incarnon Tenet Kuva Ultra" but don't stop there... just continually breed all the weapons, to make one ultimate weapon. 

Why have 3 weapons... or a weapons wheel... when you can have all weapons... in one weapon.

[kamisama85]

You can't argue that the game has no challenge, and then press for the one feature that would further remove any semblance of a challenge. This is nothing more than a self-serving selfish request because you've burned out on this game and played it too long.
 

1 hour ago, crazywolfpusher said:

I no longer play missions for more than 1 hour. Hell, 5 minutes and things already start to get boring. 

You've beaten the game. It's time to quit. There is nothing left for you in Warframe. Even if DE entertains this silly idea, you'll be done with it after an hour and back where you started.

[TheMostFrench]

.

Edited October 16, 2023 by TheMostFrench

[RichardKam]

4小时前 , crazywolfpusher 说:

The game has so many fun and interesting weapons and each update adds a few more and there is not enough time to play them all, or at least the ones we like.

I think it's time change the way loadouts work and replace it with a weapon wheel so we can carry more than 3.

 

We already use a wheel for some important stuff, shouldn't be too complicated, right?

It is time to stop porting other games into Warframe.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

How about Weapon drops

Where like the Dagoth update/ The Khal part, you pickup high power weapons along the way like the olden days of 20 years ago

[Lilybun]

I would like to run primary/primary or secondary/secondary sometimes over primary/secondary but i'd rather have them add more content than implement something like that

[Skoomaseller]

alr broken

[CrownOfShadows]

I actually think this is a great idea and have advocated for it before myself. The reason is that I believe it would

1. Encourage people to set up certain weapons for certain factions
2. Encourage people to use more weapons (instead of taking the Laetum or the Nukor on every mission for example, people would take other interesting secondaries like the Angstrum and the Dual Toxocyst incarnons)
3. Open up the possibility to create enemies that are truly elemental, forcing players to bring anti-element configured weapons to deal with them
4. Open up the possibility for more niche weapons, emphasizing them as tools for specific jobs rather than all trying to do the same thing (the Miter's anti-nullifier feature is a great example of this. Playing vs Corpus, I would carry that in my gun wheel for sure)

I'll add that I would really appreciate a feature like this for amps

[CrownOfShadows]

3 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

I like the innovation, and idea, but think you are overlooking a more obvious and betterer idea, perhaps the bestest idea for Warframe weapons... instead of being limited to 3 weapons, or being limited by a weapon wheel... Why not, introduce Weapon Breeding? Like, I really like the Exergis, but ehhh... Not the best long distance gun. Kuva Chakkhurr though... but the fire rate on both and magazine size... Burston Incarnon though... so what if DE allowed us to cross breed the Exergis and Kuva Chakkhurr, and then let us feed and grow our new Exergakkhurr Hybrid weapon... until its strong enough and evolved enough to then breed with Burston Incarnon, thus creating a "Ultra Exergakkhurr Bursta Incarnon Tenet Kuva Ultra" but don't stop there... just continually breed all the weapons, to make one ultimate weapon. 

Why have 3 weapons... or a weapons wheel... when you can have all weapons... in one weapon.

Interesting! Valence fusion on steroids.

If nothing else, this is a glorious idea for Infested Lich/Sister style weapons if that ever happens.

[ReddyDisco]

What's the need? you can just switch weapons after a mission that usually takes 2-3min. If you are going endless then you already planned your loadout and mission type so there's no need to switch in mission, plus there's no penalty for quitting a mission if you messed up your choices.

[Packetdancer]

8 hours ago, crazywolfpusher said:

Being able to carry more weapons only allow more diversity.

From a purely hypothetical standpoint, you could maybe argue that it does. From an actual human behavior standpoint, however, it honestly really will encourage the opposite.

If someone can carry all their weapons at the same time, they often never think about trying anything different; they would just have one loadout and use it for everything, because they can have all the things whenever they want them, right there, in a mission. Whereas if people have limits -- such as they are -- imposed on what they can take in, they are more likely to think about "well, what do I want in there" and actually experiment with different setups.

It seems completely unintuitive and backwards, I know, but it honestly legitimately is a tenet of game design: allowing more choice right-to-hand at all times will lead to less experimentation and variety than making you lock in a choice before doing something.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Packetdancer]

7 hours ago, --F--NerevarCM said:

We already carry 4. No.

By my count, we carry more than that.

1. Primary
2. Secondary
3. Melee
4. Archgun
5. Amp
6. Exalted weapon (potentially)
7. Possible second "exalted" weapon (if you're Titania in Razorwing mode)

And that's without getting into the fact that incarnons can be fairly different between the two modes -- witness the Latron incarnon turning into a bouncy plasma grenade launcher -- so if you carry three Incarnons and kind of squint, you could make a (not terribly convincing) argument for three "sort-of" additional weapons.

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

We have plenty available, sans Archgun in my case (balls to Fortuna).

My fat thumbing is already bad enough with the item wheel anyway, adding yet another wheel would be cumbersome.  Not to mention where it would go for console- ergo- controller players.

[taiiat]

i can appreciate the sentiment, but what i'd want is to be able to bring two Primaries or two Secondaries, rather than having to pick one of each.