Is it okay when the dev said it's too much work for them to fix a bug so they decide not to?

[Kooooooooooooooo]

We finally get the answer after years of reporting, and they are making excuses.

Does it really need to take a month to make changes to each ability one by one in order to fix the problem?

Can't you fix it in an alternative way that allows us to disable the sentience mode of umbra?

I really don't appreciate his attitude.

[(PSN)EntityPendragon]

13 minutes ago, Kooooooooooooooo said:

Can't you fix it in an alternative way that allows us to disable the sentience mode of umbra?

Warframe has never been as simple as to just "turn off" something.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

Umbra Aside

it's pretty obvious that glitches are piling up the last few updates faster than they're getting hotfixed.

 

Pablo seems to be implying that they don't have enough programmer/hours to cover everything....

So I'd suggest: hire more programmers?

[NekroArts]

They must've done a cost-benefit/complaint analysis and found out it's not worth it. If they're adamant of not wanting to turn off the sentience and the solutions are costing too much then, yeah, they can "get away with it".

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

33 minutes ago, Kooooooooooooooo said:

I really don't appreciate his attitude.

Just keep reposting your screenshot to different social media

If enough people express the same sentiment, DE might reevaluate how they prioritize bugfixes and maintenance vs 'new content'

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

In other news this thread still exists:

 

[darklord122]

It does feel like a somewhat lazy excuse to not fix a problem, It's an issue that ruins a lot of excal builds and forcing excal players to stave off from umbra if they want certain builds to work just feels feels unfair towards them, Especially since umbra is inherently strong and benefit more yet you have to downgrade just to make operators work without wiping buffs. 

And what will they do once they decide to possibly add more sentient warframe passives?  Since that has been discussed as a possibility before. Are they just gonna ignore the glaring issue?

Its better to fix an issue earlier rather than later, Or other problems can appear. 

And, It is a problem for possibly a lot of players, I doubt the excal playerbase is low and ignoring them just feels like a $&*^ move towards that playerbase.

It may not be an easy issue to fix, It still however needs to be fixed. Just like a lot of other bugs in this game.

[Kooooooooooooooo]

1小时前 , (PSN)haphazardlynamed 说:

So I'd suggest: hire more programmers?

So is it worth it?

Wouldn't it be better to hire people to make more new skins and another heirloom pack? 😂

[Xaero]

Funny thing is, there's a simple way to fix the problem.

Have you noticed that when specter Umbra dies, he goes stationary, and if you transfer back to him while he's stationary, all the buffs and activated abilities are there?

So why not just add a simple script where pressing Transference button in Operator form immediately kills specter Umbra and transfers us to stationary Umbra with all the buffs?

[taiiat]

welcome to Software, debugging is actually the most expensive and time consuming part of all Software.

[Traumtulpe]

2 hours ago, Kooooooooooooooo said:

We finally get the answer after years of reporting, and they are making excuses.

It's all about money. Are you going to pay 60 bucks for a bugfix? No. But someone is going to pay that much for a skin. That's why bugs don't get fixed, DE prioritizes higher profits over making a good game.

And that's really the story of most companies nowadays. They aren't "game studios" anymore, they are money making machines. The games get exactly the bare minimum of effort put into them, because as Pablo himself said; Why waste money on the salary of even a single programmer when you could have that much more profits?

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

19 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

It's all about money. Are you going to pay 60 bucks for a bugfix? No. But someone is going to pay that much for a skin. That's why bugs don't get fixed, DE prioritizes higher profits over making a good game.

And that's really the story of most companies nowadays. They aren't "game studios" anymore, they are money making machines. The games get exactly the bare minimum of effort put into them, because as Pablo himself said; Why waste money on the salary of even a single programmer when you could have that much more profits?

Or would you like a bugfix for something minor that effects less than 1% of the playerbase or would you like more content. bugs or qol like OPs tend to get sorted as part of a larger deep look. eg should DE look at reworking helmeth abilities.

Edited October 24, 2023 by (PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson

[Chewarette]

36 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Funny thing is, there's a simple way to fix the problem.

Have you noticed that when specter Umbra dies, he goes stationary, and if you transfer back to him while he's stationary, all the buffs and activated abilities are there?

So why not just add a simple script where pressing Transference button in Operator form immediately kills specter Umbra and transfers us to stationary Umbra with all the buffs?

Sure, this will definitely not bring 1 billion other problems.

You have to be very careful with the "there's a simple fix, here it is : just add a simple script that does X". If that was that simple, it'd be done. Warframe is a pile of spaghetti code on top of each other, even adding a 0 somewhere will very likely screw up the entire thing.

[Traumtulpe]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Or would you like a bugfix for something minor that effects less than 1% of the playerbase or would you like more content. bugs or qol like OPs tend to get sorted as part of a larger deep look. eg should DE look at reworking helmeth abilities.

That is an excuse, and you really shouldn't be making excuses for someone else - much less for a big company.

There is no reason at all why DE couldn't do both, fix bugs and make more content. It's purely a question of "well we could fix bugs, but we could also pocket the money instead of hiring another programmer".

Edited October 24, 2023 by Traumtulpe

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I don't know much about coding, but it seems like one of the most stressful occupations there is. code seems to just behave how "it" wants to and will break it's own rules sometimes. the code for warframe has long been compared to a bowl of spaghetti and if a fix means unraveling the entire bowl so to speak, and it's only a small handful of people complaining about it, then of course they won't go through the effort, because the risk likely outweighs the benefit. 

I do think Pablo could find a better way of explaining these things that doesn't potentially come across as condescending to some people, but he still has a point: taking a programmer out of action for a month to fix one bug that doesn't affect a majority of the playerbase isn't really feasible, and if the "fix" causes even more problems, then what?

people can say it's making excuses and being lazy etc. but at the end of the day, risk management and balancing costs is essential to keeping a business running.

 

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

5 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

That is an excuse, and you really shouldn't be making excuses for someone else - much less for a big company.

There is no reason at all why DE couldn't do both, fix bugs and make more content. It's purely a question of "well we could fix bugs, but we could also pocket the money instead of hiring another programmer".

Big company! lol

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

So I'd suggest: hire more programmers?

Adding more people to a late project makes it later

The real issue is the loss of the ability of release weekly hotfixes, thanks to crossplay

[Xaero]

2 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Sure, this will definitely not bring 1 billion other problems.

You have to be very careful with the "there's a simple fix, here it is : just add a simple script that does X". If that was that simple, it'd be done. Warframe is a pile of spaghetti code on top of each other, even adding a 0 somewhere will very likely screw up the entire thing.

In this particular case, the mechanics is already there.

Specter Umbra dies > stationary Umbra appears > all buffs are retained upon transference

My suggestion is to copy-paste this process upon pressing transference button.

Even if it somehow did break something, would be waaay faster to fix it rather than fix each and every buff and ability for Umbra.

[Hexerin]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

code seems to just behave how "it" wants to and will break it's own rules sometimes

This only really happens because modern devs almost universally rely on shortcuts and half-arsed "solutions" to accomplish whatever they're trying to do. Or they just go to Stack Exchange, and copy/paste whatever code happens to theoretically apply, whether or not it actually fits/works. Compound this over months/years of work being done on a codebase, and the result is a hacked together mess that barely functions.

[Gen0-234]

If that's how the fix needs to be, they're just adding debt by not applying the fix on every new frames, even if it's for the sake of consistency. ...unless they don't plan to ever fix it.

(this is assuming they need to change the abilities individually instead of a blanket change, which is how I understood Pablo's words)

Edited October 24, 2023 by Gen0-234
Clarification

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

3 hours ago, (PSN)haphazardlynamed said:

Umbra Aside

it's pretty obvious that glitches are piling up the last few updates faster than they're getting hotfixed.

 

Pablo seems to be implying that they don't have enough programmer/hours to cover everything....

So I'd suggest: hire more programmers?

Yeah but who really wants to live in London Ontario lol 🤣

[Skoomaseller]

5 hours ago, (PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Big company! lol

they might not be as big as other studios, but when they can:

- keep the lights on in the office for 10+ years, and continue to do so,

- hold a convention nearly every year since 2016,

- frequently make available premium cosmetic/prime packs for cash and not plat,

- split dev time/manpower across multiple gaming platforms,

- keep pumping out content, without much pause since its beginning, and still doing so today,

they can certainly take time to ensure that an in-game mechanic/system can be interacted with, with every frame as it was meant to, without restrictions (outside of ability specific nerfs) or bugs hindering said interaction

you don't need to worry about their coffers or wallets, they are full to the brim/fat enough.

what you need to worry about is holding them to a standard befitting of a company/studio that has been in the industry for a very, VERY long time.

so many of you still think DE is hanging by a thread like they were 10 years back. it simply is not true anymore. Up your #*!%ing standards people.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[Traumtulpe]

I don't see how there even can be any argument, Pablo literally said fixing bugs isn't worth the money. "is it worth a programmer for a month?"

[Numerounius]

For some glitches, yes absolutely the time needed and its overall impact to fix it can be a factor. Take the no abilities glitch, I can see that one requiring more dev time to fix so that may be a factor but it is also a lot more consequential so it makes sense devoting the dev time there but for something like the one mentioned I can see that the dev time/impact ratio being much less since you are devoting so much dev time towards fixing something minor. There is a couple of more complex and intricate bugs/glitches I can see falling into this category with their impact being weighted.

 

But for the vast majority of bugs and glitches I don't see them needing a months dev time to fix so it is more of asking and pleading the developers to look at the bug report and put on a known bugs list to begin with. Take the Pathocyst heavy attack one, I do not see that one requiring a months' worth of effort to fix and instead the crux of the issue is how long it took to begin the process of being put on a normal dev cycle of being put on a known bugs list to be patched all this time later whereas it could have been fixed within the week if it was noticed when it was first reported. And that is just one example that did get patched with there being thousands others sitting and rotting in the bug report section that are about as minor as that one.

And they tell us, hey don't bump your bug report thread otherwise it won't get seen! And wonder why the one area, patch notes, they are known to watch is getting spammed with requests to look at bug reports instead of properly utilizing their bug reports section of the forums and responding to various reports made in a timely manner there. I don't mind if it takes longer for some big reports to get fixed longer than others but it is insulting to have radio silence on many that I have when even just a little mention goes a long ways as shown by the bug report in the mentioned twitter post vs some that I have reported such as the excavator hitbox collision one.

Edited October 24, 2023 by XHADgaming

[(XBOX)Hellsteeth30]

Game has been going a decade and likely been through several coders.

You smack one bug and another 5 pop up somewhere unrelated.  A single line in the wrong place breaks the entire game.

Plus the game stretches across different platforms and OS.

So if they say it's too much work, it probably is.

Of course the real solution is to not let the bugs past testing, but we as end users spend a lot more time playing the game than DE do, so we find everything.