Pay plat to skip story content to access latest content-dev stream

[StingerB72]

Would it be an option to have temporary/random gear to play new content? Similar to how Duviri works now with random gear for spirals. Maybe if a player gets as far as Duviri they could get some kind of temporary access to the "latest content" and given a random loadout to do the newest missions with?

[TARINunit9]

18 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

but it does potentially mean creating a whole generation of warframe players who don't know a single thing about the story because they paid to skip it all... 

I think it's very dangerous because you are skipping more than story. You're skipping TUTORIALS and other various skill/knowledge checks

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

Wouldn't this just make the new player experience even worse? Just pay to skip everything? It doesn't really effect the people like most of us who have been playing for years but it seems like an odd choice and an easy way to continue putting no effort into the new player experience. Warframe has been stagnating for years and this isn't going to help in that regard. I honestly don't have an opinion on this being a way to make profit because it seems like a new player isn't really gaining anything from it unless it's bundled with stuff.

Edited October 28, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

I think it's very dangerous because you are skipping more than story. You're skipping TUTORIALS and other various skill/knowledge checks

people already skip those; how many newbies bother clicking the tabs that explain how modding works? how many never look in the codex at the mission types before they attempt them? hell, how many don't even know we HAVE a codex? you can't possibly account for ignorance, because that's infinite. if people skip the tutorials, that's on them: all I say is don't come crying to me when you don't know how to parkour properly or understand the polarity system lol. 

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

So this thread/topic will probably be folded into the other larger established conversation. Thats my sincere guess anyway, as a few already have, and a lot of people are going to try and make similar suggestions about what they consider a "better alternative", but like, so many will think that, not necessarily the best if we have separate threads for everyone. That being said, if this continues... I am not a psychic. 

I think its a decent idea, however... and this is something all people generally tend to do, but we tend to enter discussions with axioms and presuppositions, and them assumptions. Sometimes with contentious and polarising subjections and discussions that can end up creating a lot of miscommunication, misunderstandings. It influences how we frame things. How much of your suggestion works off assumptions like "this will kill the game, and this is a huge mistake?" and how much emphasis and importance do you personally place on the weight of such assertions. Are you knowledgeable in free to play game models, DE's internal data and structures? Is your livelihood on the line? Are these just your initial general thoughts after a few mins of thought? To be clear, I am not claiming to be an expert either, and I have plenty of criticisms against DE, but I tend to emphasis on myself as a player and how I might act and react (and others as well, potentially), and openly acknowledge my limitations. Also, I am not claiming any of us need to have such expertise (though some of us do have expertise on certain topics), to complain, or criticise, just contextually is important, because some of us, often have surface level shallow thoughts, that are woefully inadequate or unrealistic, even to other players who put more effort and thought in. Not to mention, people who tend to know more and whose jobs and livelihoods are on the line. 

Can you accurately identify and explain the issue they are trying to solve? I ask, because your suggestion doesn't really address the idea the social aspect of the game, and people being able to bypass large lengths of time, in order to potentially play with friends, others or newer content they may have seen advertised. It does address progression, and again, I think its decent idea, but far from perfect and it seems focused mostly on player progression and alleviating certain issues and simplifying some of them. Also, the locking aspect seems like it would be an even more polarising and contentious issue that would bother people. Its almost like an anti choice. Could pay to skip be a huge mistake that kills the game? Maybe, again, not a psychic, but is it also possible people are having a knee jerk reaction and making way too many assumptions based on their own particular preferences?

Personally I would never skip content. Personally, its weird to me when people buy Warframes and don't just grind them... yet people can buy Warframes... Khora, Nidus, Equinox, Protea, etc all often recommended to skip the grind. You can skip the grind for Railjack and Necramechs. Yes story quests are different, very different, and again, personally, I wouldn't skip them or recommend anyone else... Except ultimately, it doesn't really negatively affect me if people want to buy a Warframe, buy a Railjack and buy a way to skip past New War. There are some arguments about how it could affect me negatively... but my last Archon hunt, I had to hard carry (kill both Deacons to grab keys, revive the other players a few times, do most damage etc) but I didn't really care and the other players were cordial and friendly. We might get an influx of people who might struggle, but I already meet a lot of people who have completed all quests, and are L3, who can struggle (relatively rare though), but again, I don't mind, and I don't actually think picking up certain mechanics in Warframe are as difficult as people fear. There are some potential other issues too, but stuff that can be easy to figure out and sort and iron out before implementation. 

I do think some hesitation, worry, concern and criticism is warranted and fair too. Just its also good to be mindful of what assumptions we create.

[VENDOMINUS]

I view this in a similar manner as I do in FF14. It does no harm and just gives players options to choose from. More specifically: 'Do you want to start earing archon shards, credits, plat and galvanized mods now or After several months of playtime?"

You can always do the story and map later. Ofc that will make the appearance of people who have no idea what they're doing a lot more common. Though, they are quite common now too.

 

FF14 is doing great, so it's possible this will go well, since they want to make it available as a gift from someone else as well.

[Roble_Viejo]

Cant believe DE is gonna
literally add P2W to Warframe 

 

Or should I say: Pay to Not Play 😂

[AntifreezeUnder0]

Well it sounds good on paper, but then in the end you dont skip the grind anyways. Unless we talk by paying you get all the stuff handed to you to play comphy on that newly reached content. Quests were not the problem, the grinding and gaining proper mods, and weps are in order to melt things. But then again more ways for people to reach point and realise why play, play for what, what to do is great.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Stuff

1) they would suddenly have a financial incentive to make quests arbitrarily longer/grindier than they need to be in order to incentivize skipping, something theyve never had before and something that would only make quests worse overall.

 

2) they would suddenly *not* have an incentive to make older quests easier  less grindy, or more accessible.

 

3) its gonna put a bad taste in fan's mouthes.

4) its gonna feel like a cash grab to a lot of new players.

 

5) it would butcher the story narratively speaking. 

 

6) this isnt just about say a warcraft character boosting to level 90 or something theres a signifant amount of story here.

[Sagrios]

Hi, I also wanted to offer some insight on how a skip could affect some aspects of the economy. If you were to let the players free skip that could lead to some organized farming groups which could easily use one account to carry them trough a mission or bounties, sell the stuff for plat and use a mule to sell the stuff they got for real money, so they all can continue using dummies to leech off of a 'farmer'. That would be my biggest concern if the skip were to be free, it would allow for RMT to grow. That's why it has to have a price tag so you know there was an investment and you don't get flooded with farmers. Of course I know this doesn't really destroy the RMT scene but it would be wise to understand why 'skips' require a cost equal to the benefits of skipping which is getting access to all content you can farm.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Sagrios

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

As of right now, story quests are locked behind Mastery Rank and certain starchart missions. If DE feels like thers'a need to 'skip' specific ontent just for new players to catch up with the majority of the crowd, it just means there's less new players now than before. Why does DE needs new players to experience the current content as soon as possible?

[Garbor]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Wouldn't this just make the new player experience even worse? Just pay to skip everything? It doesn't really effect the people like most of us who have been playing for years but it seems like an odd choice and an easy way to continue putting no effort into the new player experience. Warframe has been stagnating for years and this isn't going to help in that regard. I honestly don't have an opinion on this being a way to make profit because it seems like a new player isn't really gaining anything from it unless it's bundled with stuff.

Pretty much what i am getting from the Pay2Skip mentality DE seems to be going with now, they can't monetize the NPE being actually decent and explaining all the convoluted systems a new player will face, so just make them pay up to skip everything.

[Alguien]

46 minutes ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:

As of right now, story quests are locked behind Mastery Rank and certain starchart missions.

Natah is MR2, Second Dream is MR3, War Within is MR5, considering Natah, which starts the quest chain. is in Uranus, the MR requisites are a joke.
Talking about jokes, why the hek is one of the requisites for Uranus Junction "CRAFT A MR1 WEAPON"?

[Marvelous_A]

I get the skip part but I don't get the charging plat part.

Progress lock is a real thing in Warframe and I think players should be not locked from most content because they are new.

Charging for it though? It's just corporate greed.

If [DE]ncent want to do it properly, give them access to most content for free, and finishing quests should give their respective rewards.

[Stafelund]

The heirloom may have been the signal where it says: "it begins". It's really questionable in all fronts.

Edit: I may be overreacting, but I'm worried and hope they don't monetize almost everything ala generic mobile games or Zynga Facebook games.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Stafelund

[Alguien]

3 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

If [DE]ncent want to do it properly,

All they need to do is backtrack on why junctions exist and detach the quest from them.
99,99% of the playtime is just star chart and junction requisites, All the early quest are just simple normal missions with custom objectives "Free Clem instead of a generic prisoner" "Capture Maroo" instead of "Capture the target" etc. They are quick to do, is only the Second Dream when they become more plot and cinematic-heavy that quests take more time, and still just a minuscule fraction of the star chart takes

That's it, that's all DE needs to do if they want players to enjoy "new quest" fast

[Marvelous_A]

31 minutes ago, Stafelund said:

The heirloom may have been the signal where it says: "it begins". It's really questionable in all fronts.

Edit: I may be overreacting, but I'm worried and hope they don't monetize almost everything ala generic mobile games or Zynga Facebook games.

Heirloom was hardly the beginning. The signs of corporate greed were there way earlier, Regal Aya was one of them.

[Stafelund]

Just now, Marvelous_A said:

Heirloom was hardly the beginning. The signs of corporate greed were there way earlier, Regal Aya was one of them.

I still think Heirloom is worse. But I kinda agree, since I heard when Regal Aya was released, it was bundled with Endo instead of plat which was worse. It's a dedicated pay to skip grind but there were still avenues to get the prime weapons and items via market or if you have the regular aya, gain them by relics which in turn you can theoretically gain them too by just passively playing void fissures. No bueno for accessories though.

Heirloom? Let's see:

- Can't be gained by other means, and was bundled with high price using Regal Aya and Platinum as filler and excuse to push up that price

- No option for a lower tier, and DE doesn't want to add any

- Slap in the face of the community considering its time of release and that accolade

- FOMO, while the stuff on Prime Resurgence rotates and it's 99% available, now if only Prime Resurgence have a strict schedule instead of being so random...

[Alpha_Tango]

I've been with these developers for so long that I think they very well know when it is time to decide how to finance and boost player numbers in this very competitive market.

Nothing too big of a deal will happen if done anyway other than a few children hurt for wanting everyone else to suffer the grind in this game's unnaturally long existence.  I can't imagine starting this game now with its woeful waiting time for the foundry to build just about everything that is core to advancing. Not to mention the gargantuan, repetitive slog you have to go through that can test anyone's patience to keep up.

After I experienced firsthand how I enjoyed this game for years at almost no cost, necessity rather than greed is what I see for this errant move. So, Tencent's influence or not, I think DE deserves and has every right to do what is best for the longevity of this game.

[Hexerin]

51 minutes ago, Stafelund said:

I heard when Regal Aya was released, it was bundled with Endo instead of plat

It still is, technically. If you drop 10 Regal Aya on the full Resurgence bundle (both frames and all their Prime stuff), it comes with 50,000 endo.

To put it in perspective:

• 15 Regal Aya bundle costs USD$80
  • We'll buy two, for an even 30 RA, so USD$160
• 10 RA grants 50k endo
  • That's 150k endo for USD$160
  • Divide 150k by 160, you get ~1k endo per dollar

Do with this info what you will.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Hexerin

[Spookmineer]

I do really appreciate the transparency, having a look into the internal discussions is really cool.

From what I got from the devstream, the point was: "make new players who were invited by friends, able to play with them from the get go".

And let's say their friends are MR30+.

 

What happens to the new player? They are going to be able to play with their friends who invited them in the new quest, which is really cool.

And then... They're MR3 with little to no resources, few forma and a handful of weapons and frames.

 

Now, let's all do this steel path mission. Or this archon hunt.

I still encounter players who don't know how to use keys in disruption, and they're MR15+.

The point is, new players are missing the mechanics and experience of how to play the game at the level their friends do. You can't expect new players to do end content gameplay just because they paid plat.

 

No amount of plat is going to account for that.

 

As for the lore/quests, I wonder how much sense it would make for a new player to skip all quests prior, and jump into the latest one.

What impact would that have on someone totally new to the game? The whole quest, its meaning and significance would be lost on them.

Pablo said it this devstream and I agree, most impactful quest is "the second dream" and I'm not ashamed to say I actually cried. I did.

I would never keep a friend from experiencing that for any amount of plat.

 

For a new player it would end up being a worse playing experience in the long run, I'm afraid.

The quests are what we look forward to, skipping any of the quests is losing out big time, these are the events you want to experience and not want to skip. At all.

Even if you are a new player. Especially if you are a new player.

[(PSN)FirmBizkit]

3 hours ago, VENDOMINUS said:

I view this in a similar manner as I do in FF14. It does no harm and just gives players options to choose from. More specifically: 'Do you want to start earing archon shards, credits, plat and galvanized mods now or After several months of playtime?"

You can always do the story and map later. Ofc that will make the appearance of people who have no idea what they're doing a lot more common. Though, they are quite common now too.

 

FF14 is doing great, so it's possible this will go well, since they want to make it available as a gift from someone else as well.

It does do some harm though there’s constant posts on the FFXIV Reddit of people who have no idea what the story is about or have done themselves a disservice by skipping all of the dialog because the early experience is bad and they now regret it. It also contributes to some people not being retained in the game because they have no care for the world. A game in which you don’t care about its world is difficult to care about in general and these players quit playing the game.

if WF is concerned with drawing in new players they should focus on the new player experience. It took me 7 years to get into this game. I didn’t even know it had a story. I thought it was just a space ninja hallway simulator with virtually identical enemies and virtually identical levels. I didn’t know it had a great story or gathering or hunting or mechs or spaceships. I thought it was just “go kill grineer in a hallway and buy microtransactions” literally.

 

The story has been one of my favourite parts of this game so far. If people are paying to skip it what if that incentivizes DE to stop developing it altogether? I want more. New War was insane.

Edited October 28, 2023 by (PSN)FirmBizkit

[schilds]

46 minutes ago, Spookmineer said:

From what I got from the devstream, the point was: "make new players who were invited by friends, able to play with them from the get go".

If that's the goal, they could design differentiated missions that have a hidden side to them that is only accessible once the player has passed some point. Players at different points in the game can play the missions together, but newer players only see the surface-level warframe-oriented mechanics and objectives.

They already do this to a minor extent with the vallis obelisks, isolation vault doors, and jupiter secret labs.

In any case, there is a more significant problem to overcome and that's the massive power gap between a new player and a vet.

[ReddyDisco]

Pay to skip isn't new and i couldn't be bothered in the least, though after the heirloom fiasco it's a bit concerning how DE is trying to monetize everything now.

[PrawiSucia]

I quit playing PSO2 New Genesis right away and uninstalled the game when they implemented pay to skip story. I really hate that idea in a free to play game. Other games have done that doesn't mean it's okay if Warframe does the same thing.

 

I have something in mind how to implement it.

When you start the game, player will have to play the first mission and choose warframe just like we currently have now.

After that you can give options to new player:

1. Continue with the story normally.

2. Skip main quests by watching the summary of the story so far and player will have to do certain things in-game such as grind, talk to NPC, visit some places, open junction, reach certain MR, etc. Basically anything that is related to gameplay. By choosing this option, everything that is locked behind story/quests will be unlocked.

 

That way, new players will still have some kind of learning stuff by playing the game while skipping the story at the same time. No need to pay.

Edited October 28, 2023 by PrawiSucia