The addition of several Archon Shards has to come with an overhaul to the massive gating to earning them

[Kaiga]

5 hours ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Bet all those people that skipped blue weeks feel dumb now. 

 

4 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

That would require awareness. They'll blame DE for implementing the system.

Do you think people decide what content to farm weekly based on speculation of future updates, particularly when zero hints of something as specific as this were ever dropped? Or did they just consult the crystal ball
How were people supposed to know there'd be an expansion to the shard system, that it would consume existing shards, and that it was arriving this year, so that they'd be motivated to not skip?
Awareness of what? A nonexistant future expansion to the system that the devs said nothing about until now?

No, really, where did they drop any hints at all that this was coming? For most people, kitting out their most used frames with taus or finishing off their rosters was the rational extent of their investment into the system, not a speculative hoard of shards they currently had no use for, because they saw this in the tea leaves like you're suggesting.

The other problem is, this system is still a time gated RNG FOMO machine, and now we're adding more layers into it without addressing any of these issues.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Kaiga

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

57 minutes ago, Kaiga said:

 

Do you think people decide what content to farm weekly based on speculation of future updates, particularly when zero hints of something as specific as this were ever dropped? Or did they just consult the crystal ball
How were people supposed to know there'd be an expansion to the shard system, that it would consume existing shards, and that it was arriving this year, so that they'd be motivated to not skip?
Awareness of what? A nonexistant future expansion to the system that the devs said nothing about until now?

No, really, where did they drop any hints at all that this was coming? For most people, kitting out their most used frames with taus or finishing off their rosters was the rational extent of their investment into the system, not a speculative hoard of shards they currently had no use for, because they saw this in the tea leaves like you're suggesting.

The other problem is, this system is still a time gated RNG FOMO machine, and now we're adding more layers into it without addressing any of these issues.

They decided with predictable snarkiness by calling blues/yellows lame due to not having op stats. 

A bunch of other excuses were used as well. 

Either way the point is they chose not to engage the system out of pettiness so they can deal with the consequences.

 

[Skoomaseller]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

They decided with predictable snarkiness by calling blues/yellows lame due to not having op stats. 

A bunch of other excuses were used as well. 

Either way the point is they chose not to engage the system out of pettiness so they can deal with the consequences.

ah yes because everyone not happy with the system clearly did not engage with the system. any more terrible takes, madurai?

[DrivaMain]

I was one of those who used to endorse the "get everything as soon as possible" mentality. Turns out? It only makes my relationship with the game miserable. The FOMO, the pressure to get everything, and all of that. Once I changed my mindset to "get everything at the pace you find the game to be enjoyable", all of these weeklies felt like "Cool, Not like I NEED to get everything though, I'll just pick what I am interested in most or what is mandatory for progression and then do the others if I feel motivated to do it.". If I miss it? Well, there's always next time.

Also, we can get three archon shards per week now if the "Weekly vault raids" are indeed true. It's clear from the start that DE wants to artificially limit the Archon Shard acquisition rate to boost player engagement. If DE is silent about the "acquisition rate" issue, then it's working as intended and the amount of players who complained about it is not big enough to warrant such change. If you want to complain, be my guest.

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by DrivaMain

[Karyst]

11 hours ago, Voltage said:

This is just ridiculous with the current state of Archon Shard time-gating.

These aren't really small existing bonuses either.

I'm not going to write an essay on why the week-gating and state of Archon Shards absolutely doesn't need to deal with this either, especially when fusing will lower your overall shard amounts.

You still gonna be here ten years from now so why are you complaining about time gating?

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

We should probably wait to see how it turns out but it's fair to raise some concerns in case all the nay sayers are right.

[(XBOX)K1jker]

So I need to unslot shards for the new system? Bile is too freaking expensive to unslot

[Karyst]

7 hours ago, Kaiga said:

 

Do you think people decide what content to farm weekly based on speculation of future updates, particularly when zero hints of something as specific as this were ever dropped? Or did they just consult the crystal ball
How were people supposed to know there'd be an expansion to the shard system, that it would consume existing shards, and that it was arriving this year, so that they'd be motivated to not skip?
Awareness of what? A nonexistant future expansion to the system that the devs said nothing about until now?

No, really, where did they drop any hints at all that this was coming? For most people, kitting out their most used frames with taus or finishing off their rosters was the rational extent of their investment into the system, not a speculative hoard of shards they currently had no use for, because they saw this in the tea leaves like you're suggesting.

The other problem is, this system is still a time gated RNG FOMO machine, and now we're adding more layers into it without addressing any of these issues.

It's quite accurate speculation since valence fusion exists. Also crucible is present in lot of RPG games but still, to expect such things, you do need to be around Warframe and pay attention. 

4 hours ago, (XBOX)K1jker said:

So I need to unslot shards for the new system? Bile is too freaking expensive to unslot

It becomes expensive when you finally loose patience and spam that red ⬇️

[RichardKam]

4小时前 , (XBOX)K1jker 说:

So I need to unslot shards for the new system? Bile is too freaking expensive to unslot

I have told people to stockpile ticor plate since archon hunt day 1 and nobody listened. 

[CephalonCarnage]

The other good mode to collect bile is infested salvage, its also a much more fun mission than people give it credit for.

[ShogunGunshow]

11 hours ago, Kaiga said:

 

Do you think people decide what content to farm weekly based on speculation of future updates, particularly when zero hints of something as specific as this were ever dropped? Or did they just consult the crystal ball
How were people supposed to know there'd be an expansion to the shard system, that it would consume existing shards, and that it was arriving this year, so that they'd be motivated to not skip?
Awareness of what? A nonexistant future expansion to the system that the devs said nothing about until now?

No, really, where did they drop any hints at all that this was coming? For most people, kitting out their most used frames with taus or finishing off their rosters was the rational extent of their investment into the system, not a speculative hoard of shards they currently had no use for, because they saw this in the tea leaves like you're suggesting.

The other problem is, this system is still a time gated RNG FOMO machine, and now we're adding more layers into it without addressing any of these issues.

Anyone that is familiar enough with Warframe's development process and looked at the colors available could take a reasonable guess at what the future would hold, yes. The archon shard system was very simple and ripe for expansion in exactly this way.

[Drachnov]

I like the idea of new shards but not the fusion with existing ones. For instance, I dont think if anything can beat the bonuses red shards offer. 

Thus even if a shard that uses reds is offering variety, I wouldn t sacrifice the bonus. Especially if on the same setup i m using reds and new ones.

If there was another way, I would have found that a great addition.

[SneakyErvin]

Regarding the time gate it should be mostly solved in the update. Since we'll get new activities that will also provide more shards per week. If those arent too restrictive it shouldnt be a problem. The main issue now is 2 per week and content that isnt replayable to get more. If we get a sensible amount of weekly activities that provide shards the gating should really only be a problem for the absolutely most die hard farmers/grinders.

But by the sounds of it, we'll be able to run the new activity a couple of times over per week for shards/materials, and then we also have the veilbreaker modes for the other 2 shards per week. 

And while some see power creep here with 3 more shard types added, I dont really see it, since we are still limited to 5 shards per frame. So the power is relatively the same as with the current shards, just with more options and deeper build potential, things that WF needs more of overall imo.

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

20 hours ago, Waeleto said:

What extra ? WHAT EXTRA ? are you assuming i have 5 shards for 55 warframes AND extra ????

55 PLUS the Primes. So your looking at 23 Primes(24 if your a founder) and  Umbra Excalibur. 

That's 80+ Warframes x 5 Shards each.

400+ Shards. And now we're combining Shards?

Yeah, a chance at 3 a week is abysmal.

Edited November 25, 2023 by (XBOX)Cram Duahcim

[(PSN)Unstar]

21 hours ago, Voltage said:

This is just ridiculous with the current state of Archon Shard time-gating.

They mentioned that there would be new ways to earn Archon Shards in the upcoming update.  So the "current state" of earning Archon Shards is not going to be the actual state of earning Archon Shards once this new system drops.

[Voltage]

10 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

They mentioned that there would be new ways to earn Archon Shards in the upcoming update.  So the "current state" of earning Archon Shards is not going to be the actual state of earning Archon Shards once this new system drops.

The fact they really didn't elaborate on that goes to show that it's not a big enough change to really make a difference. It's likely just an extra 1 shard per week to take the total from 2 to 3. There's also several other factors that players have been pointing out as a problem such as the Bile cost, config lock, etc.

We've also coincidentally gotten no Dev Workshop on these changes. It's in DE's court to increase expectations, but it's very justified to have concerns with relation to the lack of improvement Shards was really given at all.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Voltage

[Qriist]

12 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

They decided with predictable snarkiness by calling blues/yellows lame due to not having op stats. 

Can confirm! this was barely a month ago lmao

Edited November 25, 2023 by Qriist

[KIREEK]

I will say with all due honesty that i don't need all the latest new colored tauforged shards right from the get go.

I am fine with waiting a year or more to aquire some of them for some warframes, to me the slow pacing of the grind with archons and khal is enough. If they make more shards available, i'm all for it but i am fine as things are now.

I do note that the slow pacing is what led up to certain users from buying dozens of twitch accounts with unclaimed twitch drops, making them win dozens of tauforged shards, which is why changes to linked accounts and their drops may be comming in the future, i just hope the bans and these changes happen before the update, otherwise were going to have someone walking around with +50 tauforged greens and stuff.

[Qriist]

1 hour ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Anyone that is familiar enough with Warframe's development process and looked at the colors available could take a reasonable guess at what the future would hold, yes. The archon shard system was very simple and ripe for expansion in exactly this way.

inb4 Diablo IV crossover

[(PSN)Unstar]

9 minutes ago, Voltage said:

The fact they really didn't elaborate on that goes to show that it's not a big enough change to really make a difference.

With respect, you are jumping to some pretty extreme conclusions based on some pretty lackluster evidence.  There are plenty of reasons for them to not elaborate further, chief among them that DE seldom provides in-depth information about the economy of upcoming content in a devstream.  Not to mention that the devstream was already jam-packed and expected to go into over-time (which it did).  And the system clearly isn't finished yet as evidenced by placeholder values.  All perfectly reasonable explanations.  If you would like to assume the reason is something more sinister or negative, that is your choice.

 

10 minutes ago, Voltage said:

We've also coincidentally gotten no Dev Workshop on these changes.

Traditionally, Dev Workshops are for large-scale reworks to existing systems.  This is just new content that provides a new way to get items both old and new.  In the same way that I didn't expect a Dev Workshop on the Orphix mode's Arcane drops, I wouldn't expect one here.

 

If you're frustrated by the current Shard system, that's valid.  But with respect, I'd strongly encourage waiting until you get your hands on this upcoming system before getting upset about it; we simply don't have the requisite details to meaningfully judge it yet.  There will be plenty of time to judge it — with the authority of experience — once it's released.

[TeaHands]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

'd strongly encourage waiting until you get your hands on this upcoming system before getting upset about it; we simply don't have the requisite details to meaningfully judge it yet.  There will be plenty of time to judge it — with the authority of experience — once it's released.

Also they've already accidentally announced there will be an Echoes update. So there will be an open window to get proper feedback in to them to hopefully get some tweaks and changes

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

If you're frustrated by the current Shard system, that's valid.  But with respect, I'd strongly encourage waiting until you get your hands on this upcoming system before getting upset about it; we simply don't have the requisite details to meaningfully judge it yet.  There will be plenty of time to judge it — with the authority of experience — once it's released.

Here is the problem with that: DE is very lacking in the foresight category, and players, because they actually PLAY, often catch problematic things before the devs do. If nobody says anything until after it -- whatever "it" is -- arrives, DE has no opportunity to consider it or find a solution before release. Once it's shipped, as anyone familiar with Warframe knows, it usually winds up set in stone until "next time we do this." The Heirloom collection is an adequate demonstration of that, I think, vs the pay-to-skip concept that got shelved rather quickly because of the heads up prior to it being done.

Edited November 25, 2023 by (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn
s and d are too close together on a keyboard.

[Synitare]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

If you're frustrated by the current Shard system, that's valid.  But with respect, I'd strongly encourage waiting until you get your hands on this upcoming system before getting upset about it; we simply don't have the requisite details to meaningfully judge it yet.  There will be plenty of time to judge it — with the authority of experience — once it's released.

Nah. I don't need to try smashing myself in the face with a hammer to be reasonably certain that I would not enjoy the experience. With the current state of Archon shards, which has been essentially unchanged for more than a year, there's not much reason to give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially when they're being so tight-lipped about the details despite having a thorough understanding of what folks think of the current state. An extra shard per week would be effectively meaningless, and we have absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume anything other than it being yet another weekly lock.

[Hexerin]

9 hours ago, CephalonCarnage said:

The other good mode to collect bile is infested salvage, its also a much more fun mission than people give it credit for.

Are you drunk/high? Infested Salvage is absolute trash.

[Voltage]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn said:

Here is the problem with that: DE is very lacking in the foresight category, and players, because they actually PLAY, often catch problematic things before the devs do. If nobody says anything until after it -- whatever "it" is -- arrives, DE has no opportunity to consider it or find a solution before release. Once it's shipped, as anyone familiar with Warframe knows, it usually winds up set in stone until "next time we do this." The Heirloom collection is an adequate demonstration of that, I think, vs the pay-to-skip concept that got shelved rather quickly because of the heads up prior to it being done.

Exactly. It's important to raise these concerns so that if DE sees the discussions, they can extract key points that are to be considered. There's only two ways DE can see these topics (provided that they are voicing real problems and concerns):

1. "We have these issues acknowledged and taken care of, but players just don't know about that yet." 
2. "Ah crap we totally forgot 💀."

It's only those two options. Considering the following, this is why I made this thread:

1 hour ago, Synitare said:

Nah. I don't need to try smashing myself in the face with a hammer to be reasonably certain that I would not enjoy the experience. With the current state of Archon shards, which has been essentially unchanged for more than a year, there's not much reason to give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially when they're being so tight-lipped about the details despite having a thorough understanding of what folks think of the current state. An extra shard per week would be effectively meaningless, and we have absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume anything other than it being yet another weekly lock.

This is how I feel as well. The system isn't getting turned on its head to be reworked from the ground up, which is a major mistake. Archon Shards as a system are only being extended. I have quite a strong feeling that what we are getting is more additions rather than changes, and Archon Shards are fundamentally broken in their design and highly problematic with their long-standing FOMO acquisition.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Voltage