Please give us an Umbra forma extractor. Or a LOT more umbra forma.

[PollexMessier]

Just got ahold of a new mod. Precision intensify. Great mod. Would do a lot for a lot of my frames. Except.... many of them have two umbra forma installed for umbral intensify and vitality. So the only choice I have right now to slot this mod on these frames is to remove an umbral polarity. Doing this is downright unacceptable with how rare these things are. So I'm stuck in a position where I can't tweak builds that I'd like to with new mods because doing so would mean deleting something that's far too valuable, Because I failed to predict DE releasing another intensify mod and figured Umbral intensify was going to be the strongest version of it forever due to the shear difficulty of slotting it. (Note: Precision intensify is situationally more powerful than Umbral intensify)
Not cool. Can't blame lack of foresight or planning on this one. DE released a mod that conflicts with an umbral mod and they need to rectify it by ether allowing us to retrieve this obscenely rare item from frames we put it on. Or make it far less rare so it's not a punch in the gut when situations like this come up.

Edited December 24, 2023 by PollexMessier

[VibingCat]

When do you think Precision Intensify is better than Umbral Intensify?

[Qriist]

1 hour ago, PollexMessier said:

DE released a mod that conflicts with an umbral mod and they need to rectify it by finally giving us this much needed feature.

Nah.

[Nimisha_Prime]

Warframe has always been a game that requires research and experimentation. I have sunk many forma/umbra forma into my valkyr prime and her claws, and while yes umbra forma are rare and it sucks to replace a slot with a basic forma, such is the price if you want to be the strongest.

[(NSW)Greybones]

I’ve got like 4 Umbral forma kicking around and gathering dust…

I could take that mod off your hands if you can’t stomach removing the polarity that’s always matched a handful of mods

[PollexMessier]

3 hours ago, VibingCat said:

When do you think Precision Intensify is better than Umbral Intensify?

Titania, Mesa, and Ember off the top of my head.
None of Titania's abilities really benefit much from power strength except her 4. Her 2's buffs don't scale with power strength, only the damage casting her 2 does, which is negligible, if not downright detrimental cus if it kills then you can't get multiple buffs off the same enemy if you need to
Similar story for Mesa except for shatter shield which hit's a power cap at really low additional power strength you can reach with just Auger Secrets, or a couple red archon shards.
And for ember it's pointless to mod power strength for any of her abilities but her 4 above a certain point as well. Which for Immolation is less than even shatter shield. I'm not sure what strength fire blast's armor strip caps at tho.

I'm sure there's other frames that are like this.

There are scenarios in which Precision Intensify is vastly superior.

Edited December 24, 2023 by PollexMessier

[VibingCat]

6 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Titania, Mesa, and Ember off the top of my head.
None of Titania's abilities really benefit much from power strength except her 4. Her 2's buffs don't scale with power strength, only the damage casting her 2 does, which is negligible, if not downright detrimental cus if it kills then you can't get multiple buffs off the same enemy if you need to
Similar story for Mesa except for shatter shield which hit's a power cap at really low additional power strength you can reach with just Auger Secrets, or a couple red archon shards.
And for ember it's pointless to mod power strength for any of her abilities but her 4 above a certain point as well. Which for Immolation is less than even shatter shield. I'm not sure what strength fire blast's armor strip caps at tho.

I'm sure there's other frames that are like this.

There are scenarios in which Precision Intensify is vastly superior.

So you're playing without Helminth abilities?

[Voltage]

11 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Titania, Mesa, and Ember off the top of my head.
None of Titania's abilities really benefit much from power strength except her 4. Her 2's buffs don't scale with power strength, only the damage casting her 2 does, which is negligible, if not downright detrimental cus if it kills then you can't get multiple buffs off the same enemy if you need to
Similar story for Mesa except for shatter shield which hit's a power cap at really low additional power strength you can reach with just Auger Secrets, or a couple red archon shards.
And for ember it's pointless to mod power strength for any of her abilities but her 4 above a certain point as well. Which for Immolation is less than even shatter shield. I'm not sure what strength fire blast's armor strip caps at tho.

I'm sure there's other frames that are like this.

There are scenarios in which Precision Intensify is vastly superior.

The opportunity cost of a mod that only adds power strength (in quite a measly quantity to be quite honest) for one ability is hard to justify with Umbral Intensify which effects all abilities as well as Archon Shards. Precision Intensify is basically just a weak augment mod. Controlled Slide on Nezha offers more for the user than the condition of Precision Intensify. Power Strength is already an extremely saturated power stat from years of bonuses towards it.

If you really want to save the Umbra polarity, you can just build a duplicate of the Warframe. You're undermining the point of Forma if you can just hit a button and get the sunk cost back. The amount of Umbra Forma you acquire is also quite generous (relative to how many are actually required or necessary) between Devstreams/Twitch Drops, Teshin's Steel Path Honors, and Nightwave.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Voltage

[-AncientWarrior-]

Actually I'd like to remove the 12 or so I put on frames I dont use anymore.. some of us on the other side of the world work and cant watch the streams at 3am on a week day, so Teshin is about it to get them...  

[Hobie-wan]

I know it's Christmas, but these gift lists are getting ridiculous.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Pollex? It's a Forma.

DE are never going to let you refund a Forma. Not on your terms. There was the great 'Innate Abilities' refund, where every player that had the two specific slots that DE were removing (in order to give us 8 basic and innate abilities instead of 6 basic and four Ability slots) got back those two Forma, per Warframe affected by it... but that's it.

They'll give you more Forma, but they won't let you deliberately refund it. Even if it's Umbral Forma.

Even if it's slow to get and rarer than the normal Forma, it's still just Forma, you expend it as a cost, you don't invest it for a return.

[NecroPed]

I wish they even let us extract normal forma too, I hate wasting forma on something that's being replaced by a direct upgrade that also requires forma. Even if it only gave back half the regular forma and cost resources to do I'd be happy. But it feels even more necessary with umbra forma. I have zero umbra forma, several frames I want to put them into and some that I could do with taking out because of new mods, but if there's no way to remove it, I'm hesitant to use it until I absolutely know it's not coming off or I end up with a lot of regret, which reinforces the hesitancy. Being hesitant to use any weapon or warframe that doesn't have a special variant because of wasting the forma I'd put into it is bad enough, umbra just makes the problem even worse for me because it has to go into a prime frame or it's wasted and even harder to get another. I have almost no interest in investing in anything new already unless it's unique because of these systems and I really don't think that's a good mentality to reinforce, not wanting to invest in primes on top of that doesn't feel healthy. 

[Hobie-wan]

Regular forma is probably one of the top selling things. Reusing them isn't going to happen, ever. Unless you aren't paying attention when they announce the next prime weeks ahead of time (or it is assumed/guessed) and pump 5 forma into a regular frame 2 days before the prime is released, then you got a bunch of use out of the forma. That time isn't nothing.

9 hours ago, NecroPed said:

I have almost no interest in investing in anything new already unless it's unique because of these systems and I really don't think that's a good mentality to reinforce, not wanting to invest in primes on top of that doesn't feel healthy. 

Many things in life have a better version next year, or a far worse one because a manufacturer cheapened out. If that gives you choice paralysis, that's something that you need to work on.

[NecroPed]

7 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

 

Many things in life have a better version next year, or a far worse one because a manufacturer cheapened out. If that gives you choice paralysis, that's something that you need to work on.

This is a game, not life, which I actively put money into for forma, and regularly, why would I want to throw that away? Especially when I can actively prioritize the upgraded variants. Let alone the fact that we don't actually know which weapons will even get special variants for the most part (Yes signature weapons tend to be primed but that's about all we can reliably guess) so, as far as I'm concerned it is smarter to invest in something that I absolutely 100% know is not going to leave my inventory, like an upgraded weapon variant. And we do not tend to know when special variants come later either (other than signature primes and warframes), all it takes is not knowing something is coming and you've wasted your investment, potentially even in the weeks before it's being replaced. I started investing in the zylok because it got the incarnon adapter, and before I'd even got through half the forma for it, they announced the zylok prime. So my entire investment was wasted, all because I put forma into something that I thought wasn't going to be replaced, at least not for a long time, I have got no value whatsoever out of owning that weapon with the forma put into it, I didn't even finish levelling it after the last forma, simply because of obtaining the prime which is objectively better, which I had no idea was coming, meaning I basically just deleted platinum from my account for no reason. And sure, it's not much, but how many times does it have to happen before it stacks up to a big amount? There are hundreds of weapons in this game and I would rather be keeping my investments, especially when I'm spending real $ on it. I wholeheartedly think to say that wanting to keep your investments in a game is something to work on is genuinely absurd. Do you not want to keep your investments? 

I find your comment honestly ridiculous. I personally think that if you don't see an issue here and don't think a wasted investment is a bad thing then you're the one who really needs to work on themselves.

It's not choice paralysis, it's not wanting to waste investment. There is a massive difference there. It's not an inability for me to choose what I want to put it into(I even occasionally break my no forma rule and invest in a non variant, but I don't like doing it and the more I do it, the less it happens in the future), it's me knowing that the system does not provide a healthy enough environment for me to constantly justify investing into something that's going to be replaced, especially when I have a long list of special variants that I could be investing in and keeping permanently instead, while I have very little information on when and if a weapon is going to be replaced, so can't reliably account for it. I have a long list of weapons I want to put forma into but refuse to because there's no fair system to ensure that I'm not going to waste my investment. And since there's such a long list of special variants already, I would rather forma 10 weapons I care little for that have a special variant, than 1 normal weapon that I like without a special variant.  I'd rather get every element of every nemesis weapon at max bonus or even forma an extra incarnon to keep two set to different builds, than forma a small handful of non-variants.

Edited December 25, 2023 by NecroPed

[Hobie-wan]

12 hours ago, NecroPed said:

This is a game, not life, which I actively put money into for forma, and regularly, why would I want to throw that away?

You have enjoyed the forma on whatever equipment it has been on all this time. It also isn't going anywhere, you're potentially choosing whatever upgrade there might be, or is often not a huge leap.

12 hours ago, NecroPed said:

it's not wanting to waste investment.

Games are not an investment. Full stop. They are entertainment, except when people turn them into a job.

If you're really worried about it, stop playing right now. At some point Warframe will no longer be running. The servers for it will shut down, either because DE has made Warframe 2 or something completely different after a really good long run, DE goes out of business, or the Earth has been blown up or fallen into the sun. At that point and time, all of your time and money will be a waste if you don't consider it time and money that has been converted into enjoyment.

Also, I'm not reading that wall of text, I have some leisure entertainment to enjoy.

[Lord_Drod]

I have two umbra forma on my Mirage that I never use and have wrong polarities on those two always.  I just haven't wanted to forma them off, in case I ever want to use them.  I think you should be able to fit in the new mod.  It's only an 11 capacity?  There's gotta be some mods you can move around.  I also don't really think umbra forma is very useful.  Almost every time I've used it has been a waste.  I'd much rather have exilus formas so I can swap my exilus mods on weapon or frame.  If they wanted to make it more available, that's fine.  I don't really see it as being that OP or worthwhile.

[Waeleto]

I don't understand why didn't DE put umbra forma in the market until now, it'd be a win/win situation for everyone, we get to complete our builds and they get platinum

[NecroPed]

7 hours ago, Hobie-wan said:

You have enjoyed the forma on whatever equipment it has been on all this time. It also isn't going anywhere, you're potentially choosing whatever upgrade there might be, or is often not a huge leap.

Games are not an investment. Full stop. They are entertainment, except when people turn them into a job.

If you're really worried about it, stop playing right now. At some point Warframe will no longer be running. The servers for it will shut down, either because DE has made Warframe 2 or something completely different after a really good long run, DE goes out of business, or the Earth has been blown up or fallen into the sun. At that point and time, all of your time and money will be a waste if you don't consider it time and money that has been converted into enjoyment.

Also, I'm not reading that wall of text, I have some leisure entertainment to enjoy.

If I don't even finish formaing it then no, not really. And that enjoyment doesn't always justify throwing away forma when I can put it into something that I'm not deleting. It's wasteful. 

Games ARE an investment. Full stop. They're an investment of time AND money. They may not necessarily be an investment with a monetary return, but that's not what I am talking about. I'm talking about investment with this definition (And in this case add in money with no monetary return): an act of devoting time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result.

How absurd, seriously what kind of logic is that? Lets just walk away from a game I paid for founders packs in, and have regularly spent money in over the years since, with thousands of hours gametime, my own massive dojo I've spent many hours building, lets just throw it all away because I don't like throwing away a far smaller investment in that game when I can put that same investment into something that I'm not going to delete. How genuinely ridiculous. 

Yes, servers will shut down, but that's not my choice. Putting forma into a weapon is my choice, and it's one that's either going to be potentially wasted at some point, or never wasted. Honestly what a ridiculous sentiment. Why buy or play any games with online then because the servers will just right down right? Servers one day shutting down shouldn't be used as justification for health of the game now, that's absurd.

And at that point they are still going to be faced with criticism over their decisions. Look at blizzards management of Overwatch 2, it's pissed off so many players they don't want to even think of the game anymore, and honestly creating a sequel to Warframe is something that also potentially falls in line with the issue I have, wasted investment. If they do a Warframe 2 and it essentially has everything from warframe 1 in it and could have just been an update to warframe, but I don't get to keep my account and have to start again while shutting down warframe 1 I would be pretty disappointed, no matter how much time has passed. And I can guarantee you there would be backlash over such a thing. 

Then why respond to me if you're not going to read comments in the discussion you're trying to take part in. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by NecroPed

[Birdframe_Prime]

5 hours ago, NecroPed said:

And that enjoyment doesn't always justify throwing away forma when I can put it into something that I'm not deleting. It's wasteful.

It is a waste, because Forma is a cost.

Like spending Platinum on a Cosmetic that you stop using after a few weeks because another one came out. As long as you keep the Warframe, even after a Prime comes out, then it's not actually a waste, because you still have what you paid for.

But in the exact same way that any resource is actively consumed when building the frame itself, Forma is a resource, not an Investment.

You absolutely have to think of it that way, because it doesn't matter how rare the forma, or exilus adapter, or a weapon's Arcane adapter, happens to be, no matter what you went through to get it, it's not an investment. It's a cost.

You get the results of paying that cost until you stop using it.

Using an Umbral Forma on, say, Dagath, could be considered worth it. Why? Because the Prime isn't going to come out for another 3-4 years. In that time how much would a player that enjoys Dagath have used that frame? Plenty. They would have benefited from the cost they paid.

So that's the balance you have to run.

Since it's not an investment, but a cost, is it a cost you're willing to pay?

If the answer's no, then you have to accept your own choice. If the answer's yes, then you accept that there's a limited time for you to use the results of the price you paid before another option will arise at a new, equal cost.

That's all there is to it.

[Xzorn]

Unfortunately due to ever increasing capacity cost from mods this is a problem that's only gotten worse.

It was already a problem with guns 8 years ago and that was before Exilus slots.

The forced "synergy" aspect of abilities they started while back to prevent building with a dump stat didn't help either.
The community made Umbra mods a chase item to fit into builds so I doubt there will be any change. Surprised Teshin now has them at times.

[Hexerin]

6 hours ago, Waeleto said:

I don't understand why didn't DE put umbra forma in the market until now, it'd be a win/win situation for everyone, we get to complete our builds and they get platinum

Because that would make sense and allow players to have fun, so DE can't allow that.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

Because that would make sense and allow players to have fun, so DE can't allow that.

Yay you play their game how THEY think you should play it. Not how you wanna play it. 

[NecroPed]

6 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

It is a waste, because Forma is a cost.

Like spending Platinum on a Cosmetic that you stop using after a few weeks because another one came out. As long as you keep the Warframe, even after a Prime comes out, then it's not actually a waste, because you still have what you paid for.

But in the exact same way that any resource is actively consumed when building the frame itself, Forma is a resource, not an Investment.

You absolutely have to think of it that way, because it doesn't matter how rare the forma, or exilus adapter, or a weapon's Arcane adapter, happens to be, no matter what you went through to get it, it's not an investment. It's a cost.

You get the results of paying that cost until you stop using it.

Using an Umbral Forma on, say, Dagath, could be considered worth it. Why? Because the Prime isn't going to come out for another 3-4 years. In that time how much would a player that enjoys Dagath have used that frame? Plenty. They would have benefited from the cost they paid.

So that's the balance you have to run.

Since it's not an investment, but a cost, is it a cost you're willing to pay?

If the answer's no, then you have to accept your own choice. If the answer's yes, then you accept that there's a limited time for you to use the results of the price you paid before another option will arise at a new, equal cost.

That's all there is to it.

Lol it is a waste if it ever gets replaced with a prime because it is an objectively worse downgrade that has no purpose over the upgrade. How is it not a waste to keep an inventory slot dedicated to something thats being replaced by an objectively better upgrade? I do not understand the logic there, at all. 

Nah sorry its completely different. Forma is a paid item, one that is expected to be bought regularly to support the game. While resources are not expected to be bought, they are almost always expected to be earnt. Now if I want my support foe the game to not be wasted because I cannot tell the future, for example formaing the zylok before the prime was announced and never even using it fully formad or even fully leveling it from the last forma before it was announced. Wasting my investment because an objectively better upgrade replaces it. If i continued to forma it so that the forma I already put into it wasn't being furhter wated by not utilizing the weapon then I'd be wasting even more on something I wouldn't even be using. I find your perspective genuinely ridiculous to compare something thats at the core of their monetization to something thats at the core of what they want you to earn. Let alone the added layers of not knowing you've wasted it until they release something that wasted your investment.

I honestly think your perspective is actually ridiculous. I think that dagath example is stupid. If I put an umbra forma into dagath it would 100% bbe wasted even id I play the frame a little now. Just because there is a cost does not mean that the waste is automatically justifiable. That is genuinely ridiculous. Not everyone will get the same time and entertainment out of it, and so for a lot of people that would be a wasted investment. So what happens if they want to use dagath with the umbra but do not want to waste it in that regard? The frame sits in their inventory for 3-4 years. Some people don't play often enough to get all the umbra forma so they do need to be selective about it. And before that prime comes out how many other primes will come out that I would not be wasting that forma in because it is not being replaced by a direct upgrade? I honestly think its stupid to invest so much into something thats going to be actively replaced. If that means I ignore most things until primes then thats just what DE have caused with their system. And I wholeheartedly believe it is not healthy the way it is now because many people are actively avoiding warframes and weapons to avoid this loss of investment. I would consume magnitudes more forma if I knew they weren't being 100% wasted. I'd even be content with a resource cost and only partial forma gain because I do understand that entertainment is still value, but it is not enough to justify throwing everything away regardless and I truly believe people need to work on that perspective more if they don't agree. It took days for me to waste all my investment into the zylok because I juat didn't know the prime was coming 

No, it IS an investment. Its an investment of time, effort and often money too and I think it is stupid to justify throwing that all away just because you MIGHT have got some use out of something before its being replaced by a direct upgrade. I got nothing out of formaing the zylok except deleting platinum from my account, I barely even used it while formaing it before the prime was announced. I have completely wasted my time, effort and money I puy into that weapon all because I could not predict the future. All I got out of it was an increased cost to get the same or more out of the objectively better upgrade. 

It is literally an investment though, in several ways.

I have already come to the conclusion that I need to accept my choice and that is why I actively avoid formaing things without special variants. I am already managing this problem as best as I can, but I wholeheartedly think this system is not healthy the way it is. 

And honestly I think that last part is absurd. Just because you can justify the cost of something doesn't mean you should justify throwing that cost away, thats genuinely absurd. Yes theres a limited time to get value out of it before its replaced so if I literally do not know when it is coming because I cannot predict the future then the smarter thing to do is to avoid anything I don't know is coming with a replacement to avoid wasting it when I am surprised with a variant. If I can actively choose one pathway that doesn't waste any of my investment at all over a pathway that wastes 100% of my investment why would I choose that? Both pathways provide the same thing, weapons and frames to use, but one deletes what I invest and the other keeps what I invest.

Would you be okay buying a new car a week after spending the same or more amount of time effort and money into making your old car work worse than the new upgrade will, knowing that the day the upgrade comes the old car is completely redundant? If you could reasonably predict the future and see that an upgrade is coming in this scenario, would you not rather avoid wasting that investment on your old car when you could wait a week for the upgrade or catch the bus until you can get the upgrade so you don't waste your investment? Just because theres value to be had does not mean investment is not being wasted. 

[Hobie-wan]

3 hours ago, NecroPed said:

Lol it is a waste if it ever gets replaced with a prime because it is an objectively worse downgrade that has no purpose over the upgrade. How is it not a waste to keep an inventory slot dedicated to something thats being replaced by an objectively better upgrade? I do not understand the logic there, at all. 

You're also glossing over the fact that if most people flock over to the prime/wraith/vandal/whatever version of something, then the plain one can end up with a higher riven disposition down the road when adjustments are made.

But whatever, post another novel.

[Birdframe_Prime]

17 hours ago, NecroPed said:

Just because there is a cost does not mean that the waste is automatically justifiable.

Then you're the kind that doesn't think the cost is worth it. It's as simple as that.

You went on for a long time to make that little decision.

I think it's a shame that you have this remarkably negative attitude towards paying the cost of the build you want to put on a frame. But that doesn't change what Forma is, and specifically what DE have told us Forma is, namely; just a cost.

An investment is something you get returns on, if you're lucky, or you could just make a loss on them instead. If you make a loss on an investment, then it was a cost, too.

DE say it's a cost, not an investment, so you're not getting Forma back after spending it, any more than you're getting money back after you pay for Platinum.