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Dev Workshop: Passives, Volt, Mag & More!

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7 minutes ago, Valsako said:

I like how Mag and Volt are equally as useless, yet Mag gets a REAL rework and Volt just gets sprinkles. His first is "meh" at best, and his speed basically just got nerfed for team use. Why?

Also, this better not be the end of the changes for Mesa. That frame needs way more than just melee mods and a minor adjustment to Shooting Gallery that isn't even going to be noticed by people who mostly play solo anyway.

AGREED! Shock does 0 damage with a 2 second stun to 5 enemies, no change? speed is only 10 seconds and doesn't provide many buffs. Mag is ecstatic as far as she's concerned 

Edited by Wolfnrun
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For Limbo, please remove the grey filter when in the rift...The energy particles are fine, just remove the grey contrast filter- it makes it incredibly hard to see things.

And just buff the benefits of the rift... (pick things up... I have a gun in my hand...)

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I personally believe that passives should follow a single rule:

-Passives should be usable in some way, in any mission with the Warframe (When armed with a full set of weapons) on any planet on both Solo or Co-op.

For example; Passives like Loki's 10X Wall latch duration and Wukong's Melee combo duration bonus, those are good! You're always able to Wall latch in missions, and Wukong's melee combo counter can be made usable even without a melee weapon, because he can still use Primal Fury. Nekros' is pretty good too! Killing enemies is something players are always doing!

Passives like Vauban's or Trinity's are almost entirely worthless in Solo. There's no other warframes for Vauban to get an Armor bonus from; or grant an armor bonus. Trinity can revive Kubrows and specters I suppose. But that's about it.

Oberon's, while I love the idea, is only usable on Phobos, Earth, the Orokin Derelict and the Grineer Masters. Three of those are Grineer only, and the last one gets taken over by Grineer all the time anyway. The whole reason why you're changing Shield Polarize, was because it was restricted to a single Faction. And now one of the passives you're introducing is....Restricted to one faction? He needs something more. Even a small extra bonus of some kind. Ember's passive is also questionable. I'm pretty sure Fusion MOAs, Corrupted MOAs and Napalms are the only non-eximus enemies capable of dealing a Heat Proc. There's also the Fire environmental hazard, but that's about it.

TLDR: Heavily situational passives like Oberon's, Vauban's or Ember's are terrible ideas in my opinion...! More universal passives like Equinox's or Atlas'!

Edited by Zandermanith222
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1 minute ago, DemonUnicornLV said:

Well BB corpus nuker hello ... something?

What usually happens when devs say "balanced" it's so well eyeballed it's now so useless. The frame will be tuned by numbers, and feels it, too. :(

I know I'm pessimistic but after so many games and so many devs doing rework, that does that to a person. :/

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1 minute ago, Kevyne_Kicklighter said:

What usually happens when devs say "balanced" it's so well eyeballed it's now so useless. The frame will be tuned by numbers, and feels it, too. :(

I know I'm pessimistic but after so many games and so many devs doing rework, that does that to a person. :/

I will give it a tad bit of hope though, come the update and then thy will see xD But not too much no need to get myself too "hopefull" :(

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I'm still wary of those Mag changes. I'll have to play it in practice, but I can't help but feel my poor Mag's heyday is over. You say "Mag rework", I say "oh Hek no my precious corpus princess! No! Anyone but her!" So we'll see.

That said, the changes actually do look cool, and sound fun... but I'm going to really miss my "lay waste to armies with a wave of my hand" build.

Most of the passives look pretty much awesome. Tell me the ones with range will scale with Power Range? Like Nova, Oberon... That would be lovely!

Speaking of Oberon. While I understand your position, I really like the flavor idea of Oberon's passive. I agree that it's not very useful, but that's in the environment right now. I agree with Steve, we need more "wild" "life"!

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Kinda disappointed that Oberon's passive is gonna be restricted entirely to grineer and derelict missions....I'd be fine if that was a secondary passive for him as I do like the concept...it's just not gonna come up in the majority of the game.

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Yesh! my baby Banshee and Nova gon be... EPIC.

THANK YOU DE! :D

also, my Nekros ain't going to die at all now :3

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I'm a little wary of the reworks for Mag - If track records say anything (Mesa and Saryn). Speaking of that, What about Saryn? What is happenign with Mesa and Peacemaker also? Is it becoming mobile?

 

Volt changes i'm a little bit iffy with. I'm not a volt player but many who play volt simply do because of the speed buff for capture missions (Volt is commonly requested and the entire squad knows what the volt will do). This could hinder some things if volt, for example is behind everyone and he drops these 'boosters'. If this is the case we could see a RIP volt for capture missions and see more Jet stream / Turbulence Zephyrs instead.

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53 minutes ago, -RIPD-Unduku said:

Thats not very good DE, if i use Mind Control i always try to get a Enemy with a big fat Weapon like a Bombard. Its a bad idea that i minimize my own power by disarming him. Maybe you can chage it to somtehing like this:

Enemies who was affected by any of Nyx's powers have a chance to lay down their weapon ( become disarmed ), after the powers Duration stopped.

They mentioned in the last stream that if mind controlled, an enemy will only drop their weapon after the mind control wears off. No worries there.

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13 minutes ago, Rekkou said:

Just something that previous people have stated, if passive require active ability to be used, that's not really passive, that's a common ability mechanic shared by 4 abilities. Frames like Volt and Nyx need something that allow them to use their passives outside of their ability.

I'm pretty sure Volt's passive is next attack not just next power use. eg. You can run up to someone and hit them in melee with bonus damage or run away and shoot them with bonus damage.

2 minutes ago, Zandermanith222 said:

Oberon's, while I love the idea, is only usable on Phobos, Earth and the Orokin Derelict. Three locations, and one of them is the very first planet unlocked. He needs something more.

It says neutral and enemy wildlife which suggests it affects Drahk and Hyekka so pretty much any Grineer mission will have use of it.

3 minutes ago, Zandermanith222 said:

Ember's passive is also questionable. I'm pretty sure Fusion MOAs, Corrupted MOAs and Napalms are the only non-eximus enemies capable of dealing a Heat Proc. There's also the Fire environmental hazard, but that's about it.

Scorchs and Hyekka Masters too but that's about it.  If they put self damage back on Fireball I guess she'd get more use from it... or maybe give her a 0 damage fire proc if in the radius of a Fireball or Fire Blast.

 

I must admit I'm a bit unenthused by Mag's passive.  I've been eagerly waiting for quite a while since her rework was shown, then heard it was postponed because it was to get simultaneous release with all the passives but a more interesting passive for her wasn't thought up in that time. :sad: If they weren't already on other frames I'd suggest wall clinging or knockdown resist.  I don't know, a vacuum just doesn't seem great since she can have Greedy Pull if you want that or just take Carrier who'll do it better since it's actually passive and not triggered by a bullet jump...  The previously mentioned idea of refilling ammo as she gets shot sounds cool...  Or if you want to stick to the loot related abilites a passive loot radar like Ivara's passive enemy radar?

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I'm gonna say something that might sound really stupid but hear me out:

Maybe we should get one thematic passive, and one practical passive.

From my point of view, Inaros has set a new standard for passive, that is making it much harder for other passives to compare: 

  1. He has no shields, but tons of health.
  2. On death, he turns into a sarcophagus.

See, it's impossible to make a proper build for Inaros while ignoring his first passive, which makes him very distinguished from other frames. The second one however, you can kinda build for it, but most of the time you will not account for it in your build and it will mostly be a thematic novelty.

 

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Could we have a toggle mode like Ivara/Vauban for continuous shock a little into the future? I always dream of this:

6NhHFB86oCaUU.gif

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It says neutral and enemy wildlife which suggests it affects Drahk and Hyekka so pretty much any Grineer mission will have use of it.

I edited that to take that into account ,but it still limits it to one faction and the Derelict, judging by the Shield Polarize change, DE wants to avoid Faction exclusivity.

Quote

Scorchs and Hyekka Masters too but that's about it.  If they put self damage back on Fireball I guess she'd get more use from it... or maybe give her a 0 damage fire proc if in the radius of a Fireball or Fire Blast.

Dunno how I could forget those two! The Self-Fireball proc would be a pretty good addition I think!

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Other players in range now get to 'opt-in' to Volt's Speed buff, by activating a pickup that Volt leaves behind on cast.

If it is a pick up that Volt leaves behind then why do teammates have to be "in range"? Using narrow minded is mandatory for a good build for Speed and having good power strength too (thus you cant use overextended), so having speed be opt in through pickup on top of having it's previous range limitations means almost no one other than Volt itself receiving the benefits from it since you can't "hit" other players with the cast anymore and they now even have to be aware that you cast speed on then and then they have to find the pickup and pick it up. Might as well make speed strictly affect Volt only at this point.

Now come on... Speed is the one and only ability that makes Volt really shine, and so was it the one and only thing I hoped from this rework that you did not nerf it.

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No chroma passive? How about +25% more damage to enemies inflicted with chromas elemental damage output? 

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I see the Oberon one.  Please no.  It's already bad enough that he is so controversial that a whisper of his name sends the forums into a firestorm of debate.  This will make him too specific to too FEW areas to be reliable.  I will be content if you didn't release this and took more time to think it over.  I can't express hard enough how this one feels and looks to be a terrible idea considering natural kubrow and Kavats are neutral to you unless you damage them. 

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Just now, Wolfnrun said:

No chroma passive? How about +25% more damage to enemies inflicted with chromas elemental damage output? 

Chroma has a passive.  His ability to change element type based on his color is the passive.

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Just now, Olianu said:

Chroma has a passive.  His ability to change element type based on his color is the passive.

That's a function not a passive 

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Just now, Wolfnrun said:

That's a function not a passive 

I'm going by what I researched in the wiki when I was wondering the same question and it's listed there as passive.  If it's wrong, I do apologize.

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4 minutes ago, Katinka said:

I'm pretty sure Volt's passive is next attack not just next power use. eg. You can run up to someone and hit them in melee with bonus damage or run away and shoot them with bonus damage.

Unless i miss something, previous devstream shows that it only apply to the next damaging abilities, like shock or overload. But it will be nice if it works like that.

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1 hour ago, residente said:

Nekros: stats are just too small. 5 health is nothing and you now it, and 10 meters means near melee range to get any benefit from that. And Nekros is not the kind of warframe that would go close range against his enemies.

The only way I see the 5 health working in our favor is using shadow step in the naramon focus tree. But yes Nekros is not bulid to be that close, he can with the right mods but he is a support frame not a tank like you say. I run him with a sniper build so I am miles away from danger... well as much as possible. Can't wait for a dread-like sniper so I can cut them in half and get twice the loot.

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4 minutes ago, Olianu said:

I'm going by what I researched in the wiki when I was wondering the same question and it's listed there as passive.  If it's wrong, I do apologize.

Oh no! It's fine! Equinox has this but also has a mini version of equilibrium, chroma does not. This is a false passive that needs more umph! 

Edited by Wolfnrun
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